39 replies to this topic

[skinnylizard]

well i didnt really spend time on Heidfeld around when he joined Alesi. honestly i was never impressed much but thats probably because he was never really in the focus cept for the one time he tangled with Jean.
At Sauber i thought he was quicker than Frentzen.

but seriously at williams at this point i expected him to be behind Webber. but at this point he is just about a bit off Webber in qualifying and in race pace he has done just as well if not better.
add to that his quiet personality, no loud mouth statements, no big talk.

any other fans who know more about him. how is in the car? thought process, driving style.
i think the guy is a star revelation and hopefully he can be in a williams or another competetive car next year.

[MuMu]

He just sits there.

[doremi]

And it works!;)

[MuMu]

Definitely.

I never thought that much of him, but he's turned out to the better of the two Williams drivers. Still early to tell though, but if Mark was expecting a walkover like his previous teammates, he now realises that he must up his game. And stop making stupid comments to the press that come back and bite him.

[Alfisti]

I cannot believe how no one expected anything of this guy?????????????? WTF is wrong with you people, he is clearly a top notch driver and has been amongst the best in anything he's driven since he was knee high to a grasshopper.

If not for Raikkonen he'd be the one chasing Alonso right now. I fully expected him to match Webber tenth for tenth and so it has proved. I am a little surprised he's down .. i think it's 10-2 in the qualifying sessions but apart from that I got exactly what i expected.

[Vilenova]

Frank and Mark are asking the same thing.

[LB]

LB faints

I agree with Alfisti word for word

*crumbs*

[100cc]

What i've seen of his driving style is that it is smooooooooooooooooooooooth. Definitely one of the smoothest of all F1 drivers, but is that the fastest way?

I also expected him to do quite well against Mark.

edit: To witness his smooth driving style, have a look at his on-boards from last year and compare with his teammate.

[polendo]

Nick was equally impressive time ago when Kimmi got the call from the Mclaren people. I also questioned myself why any top team didn't got him sooner.

[Uxoros]

I remember one time in 2001, when Kimi was asked who would be his biggest rival in the future and guess what he answered.

[Naushad78]

There's something likeable about the guy too, isin't there? He may be annoyingly politically correct but he has a refreshing boyish sweetness about him and that endears me towards him. I quite like him as I do Mark's personality also. I just feel that Mark needs to back up his words a little.

[BuonoBruttoCattivo]

He's from the same willage of HHF, Mochengladbach (sp?).
Are all people from there nice and pleasant?

[andyb]

when I used to work at McLaren and he was tester, the test team use to go on about how methodical and consistant he was, while even then he was quite smooth, fairly unusual in a driver that young. Bit like Prost, he doesnt really look that quick as he's not launching over the kerbs and grass, but I suppose he just sits there.

[kNt]

He was always very convincing, just his 2003 season was a let down when he wasn't faster than HHF.

I don't think he isn't boring, he honestly doesn't car a lot for the stuff beneath racing and until this season "the staff beneath racing" didn't really care for him.

[bnlflo]

Originally posted by BuonoBruttoCattivo
He's from the same willage of HHF, Mochengladbach (sp?).
Are all people from there nice and pleasant?

nope, definetly not...
my girlfriend lives there. Well, of course SHE is nice and pleasant and great, but she wasn't born there...

(btw: it's "Mönchengladbach"... terrible name. And it's not a village at all... 270.000 people are living there.)

[MrSlow]

I like his subtle sense of humour. Like this from thursdays press conference :

Q. What about the changes in qualifying here. Is it going to make a difference to you?

NH: I don't think it will be a big difference. I find it strange that lots of people seem to love this idea when I think it is more or less the same as last year, and last year we changed it because nobody liked it. So I think it is a bit strange.

[eoin]

Originally posted by MrSlow
I like his subtle sense of humour. Like this from thursdays press conference :

Q. What about the changes in qualifying here. Is it going to make a difference to you?

NH: I don't think it will be a big difference. I find it strange that lots of people seem to love this idea when I think it is more or less the same as last year, and last year we changed it because nobody liked it. So I think it is a bit strange.

So true, but it was either this or stick with the old format. There was no way that the Michelin teams would go for a 12 lap format as that would really benifit Ferrari.

[taran]

He had a decent career pre-F1 but many felt that was partly due to excessive Mercedes support.
His debut at Prost was fairly poor but then the 2000 Prost was a terrible car. But he never really shone against the mercurial Jean Alesi. In your first year, you HAVE to make an impression at a few races. Just driving smoothly isn't enough.

At Sauber he did pretty well in 2001 but suffered in comparison to a total rookie. Again, he seemed good but missing that vital spark of greatness. And with Mercedes overlooking him, everybody assumed that Heidfeld wasn't the real deal.

His year with HHF kinda proved it. He should have spanked Frentzen. Instead, he was blown away IMO.
It probably was the low point of his career. Nobody saw a potential winner in Heidfeld.

Going to Jordan and really having to fight for a loosy position really helped him I think. It probably awakened some fighting spirit previously lacking. At Williams he has to fight for his position again and I didn't really think he had it in him to do so. But he is showing Webber the way home. What impressed me even more was his drive at Bahrein. You could sense that hell would freeze over before he would let Raikkonen pass. Pity his engine packed up.

But that brings me back to his supposed 'lack of fighting spirit'. Heidfeld seems to come alive when fighting against Webber or Raikkonen. Otherwise he is smooth but invisible.

Perhaps he needs to pick fights with more drivers?

[Mauseri]

Q. What about the changes in qualifying here. Is it going to make a difference to you?

NH: I don't think it will be a big difference. I find it strange that lots of people seem to love this idea when I think it is more or less the same as last year, and last year we changed it because nobody liked it. So I think it is a bit strange.

ermmm ... who exactly likes this idea? It's only for TV and press.

[wegmann]

It's nice that there's someone in F1 who isn't constantly whining and craving attention. IIRC he said about one negative sentence to the press when Michael clearly wronged him in Australia - I'm curious if it was even him who brought the subject up in the driver's meeting at the next race. For the most part, he simply goes about his business.

That said, I like big mouth Mark, too. Diverse personalities is part of what makes F1 interesting.

[wegmann]

Originally posted by micra_k10

ermmm ... who exactly likes this idea? It's only for TV and press.

And the TV and press aim to please who? Yup, the spectators. I think the basic reason is to be able to print or report who got pole before 10AM Sunday morning. But the system is simpler, too, and that's good because the casual viewers have a hard time following all the ridiculous rules in F1.

I think the idea is better than the system used at the first few races, but that's damning with faint praise. With each passing year, 12-lap qualifying seems more beautiful.

[MrSlow]

Originally posted by micra_k10

ermmm ... who exactly likes this idea? It's only for TV and press.

I guess he talks about the people who voted for it

[RJL]

Originally posted by wegmann


With each passing year, 12-lap qualifying seems more beautiful.

bingo

[kamix]

Originally posted by wegmann
With each passing year, 12-lap qualifying seems more beautiful.

I reckon the perfect solution would be to take each drivers overall fastest lap from FP3 or 4 (whichever is better) and base the quali order on that.

In regards to NH, his race pace has been slightly slower than Mark but due to his knack at avoiding incidents he's cashed in on better places. To be honest he seems like a good package but while Mark needs to settle down a bit I think Nick needs to become a bit more aggressive. That I believe is the only reason he's losing out in qualifying.

Everyone I think is starting to realise that Williams probably has the best combination of driver types on the grid. If they had a car to match the McLaren or the Renault it wouldn't suprise me if they took the WCC (fisi/JPM/Sato etc are not performing to the level of their teammates).

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by wegmann
And the TV and press aim to please who? Yup, the spectators.

Yeah .. the occasional spectator who isn't really interested but just read some dramatic news from paper or whatches TV if it happens to be open. And this may be quite a large audience of all F1 vievers and targets of sponsors :

But no one likes it.

I think the basic reason is to be able to print or report who got pole before 10AM Sunday morning. But the system is simpler, too, and that's good because the casual viewers have a hard time following all the ridiculous rules in F1.

I think the idea is better than the system used at the first few races, but that's damning with faint praise. With each passing year, 12-lap qualifying seems more beautiful.

One lap qualifying would be just as great, or greater, without race strategy. I guess the drivers liked that very much and it is nicer challenge that way.

No one likes what we have now.

[angst]

One lap qualifying just doesn't have the excitement of the old style qualifying AND it is inherently unfair.

It is unfair because the cars are allocated a qualifying slot, and depending on where you finished (or not) the previous race you can be undone by the track conditions. Why not let the teams and drivers chose when to go out on track.

Those last 15 mins of the qualifying sessions used to be something worth watching with drivers setting times and others coming out to beat them.

One other thing. Why limit them to 12 laps? If the teams are limited to one compound and one set of tyres then let them use them as much as they see fit.

[taran]

I don't understand why people are so keen on the old system.

In case you've all forgotten....they were often incredibly boring. Drivers would wait until the last 5 minutes or so and then all go on a flyer. As a TV viewer, you would miss many drivers as the TV director would focus on the championship leader or local boy. After qualifying, you'd have most drivers complaining ad nausum that they 'woz robbed' because driver X blocked their fast lap.

And that says nothing about the two qualifying sessions on friday and saturday when drivers wouldn't even go out if the track was slower than previously.

I fully endorse 1-shot qualifying, especially in race trim. I don't care who is the absolute fastest or else I would follow drag racing. The only thing that would improve the current format is if the public was informed about the weight of the cars. That way we would know who was running light or not. And as several Technical director's have acknowledged, they know pretty well what a given car is capable of, so it's not as if secrets were aired.

[MrSlow]

The new system is too clean, too plastic and reminds me about microvave pizza. And po-jamas.

Fits todays robotic F1 maybe, but altough it fills my belly i'm not satisfied.

[doremi]

I want the current Q1 to stay. It's annoying when you have to take fuel levels into account during qualifying.

Nick has a wicked sense of humour.

[Williams]

Originally posted by MuMu
Definitely.

I never thought that much of him, but he's turned out to the better of the two Williams drivers. Still early to tell though, but if Mark was expecting a walkover like his previous teammates, he now realises that he must up his game. And stop making stupid comments to the press that come back and bite him.

There is certainly a contrast between Mark and Nick. I don't think that Mark thought that Nick would be a walkover, but I think that people often underestimate just how effective Nick's heads-down under-the-radar style can be.

Of course Nick's style has yet to be proven in the crucible when there is an even fight for big stakes at the front, where a more aggressive approach can make the difference between first and second place. That is something that team owners often look for in a driver and may explain why Nick has taken a while reach this level.

I am hoping that Nick can prove that attitude wrong in his particular case, and that he can push this opportunity all the way to the top. But he is going to need get himself into the right place at the right time.

[MuMu]

Originally posted by doremi
I want the current Q1 to stay. It's annoying when you have to take fuel levels into account during qualifying.

There is no 'current Q1' anymore

[MuMu]

Originally posted by Williams


There is certainly a contrast between Mark and Nick. I don't think that Mark thought that Nick would be a walkover, but I think that people often underestimate just how effective Nick's heads-down under-the-radar style can be.

Of course Nick's style has yet to be proven in the crucible when there is an even fight for big stakes at the front, where a more aggressive approach can make the difference between first and second place. That is something that team owners often look for in a driver and may explain why Nick has taken a while reach this level.

I am hoping that Nick can prove that attitude wrong in his particular case, and that he can push this opportunity all the way to the top. But he is going to need get himself into the right place at the right time.

I wouldn't say that Nick lacks aggression - look at Monaco, and his fight with MS earlier in the year. He just has a more sensible and calculated approach than Mark, who's been involved in quite a few unncessary incidents this year.

[Williams]

Originally posted by MuMu


I wouldn't say that Nick lacks aggression - look at Monaco, and his fight with MS earlier in the year. He just has a more sensible and calculated approach than Mark, who's been involved in quite a few unncessary incidents this year.

I agree, but I also hope that Nick is asserting himself within the team. That can be just as important as how aggressively he drives on the track.

[Nancsi706]

It would be nice to see a QNick-Fisico pair in a competitive Williams.

[KWSN - DSM]

Originally posted by Nancsi706
It would be nice to see a QNick-Fisico pair in a competitive Williams.

Fisichella is showing all of us exactly ehy he was never hired by a true front running F1 team before this season. Heidfeld would beat Fisichella hands down in any quality team.

I think that Heidfeld is a very good driver, and I think that Mark Webber is finding him harder to deal with, than he had expected. Not saying that Webber had expected to walk all over him, but more that he would be the clear better driver a Williams.

In qualifying up to today, Webber have been clearly the better qualifyer, but that have already been part of his package at Jaguar, and like Trulli he seem less star quality when it comes to racing.

There may be a reason that Webber have NEVER won a Championship.

At Monaco he was sour and annoyed, that the team helped Heidfeld, but he must then have forgotten completely, how if he had "just" held on to his qualifying spot, his situation would have been different.

I expect Heidfeld to race for a Sauber BMW in 2006, and for all intents and purposes Heidfeld is now the BMW Racer. His technical ability is highly appreciated by BMW and Williams. And he is a VERY good and VERY fast F1 driver.

[Corners]

Then there's also the possibility that Alonso is super quick especially in this years Renault, funny how its automatic to write Fisi off simply because he did so well against many other drivers like Button, Sato, Ralf, Wurz and co. I hope you weren't one of the ones slagging Nick at Sauber ?
Fisi is as fast as Alonso he takes more laps to get there, that is a factor everybody forgets about but the rules these days forces you to deliver immediately. Its like hitting the bullseye with only one dart being thrown, given 20 darts Fisi is just as close and possibly even closer than Alonso, but Fernando seems to be able to go out slowly and get it the first time.
People think its all black and white but every driver reacts differently to cars, tracks, rules, tyres, fuel etc. and if Alonso continues his performance and the knock on effect in the races without and car failures then he'll beat him easily.
There just no justification in saying Fisi is no good or should never have been in a top team its total nonsense.

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM
Fisichella is showing all of us exactly ehy he was never hired by a true front running F1 team before this season. Heidfeld would beat Fisichella hands down in any quality team.

And Montoya is showing why he always was in top team right?

[kodandaram]

I was actually one of the very few guys who was keen on Nick Heidfeld when he debuted in 2000 . I remember choosing him as the driver everytime I played F1 2000 . ....and I always outqualified Alesi ....

I didn't follow him much later in the season as the car was proving itself a worthy shitbox....

In 2001 I was happy for him when he got the Sauber seat and he impressed a lot ..but McLaren IMHO rightly chose Kimi.

I thought he defenitely deserved his seat there at Sauber in 2002 and also 2003 and most defenitely in 2004 . JOrdan in 2004 was a **** car but he did really well . I was really praying he would get a ride in 2005 . And he did really well again in the test against pizza .

He really is a nice guy and he deserves all the success he gets. I am a fan from the day he made it into F1....

[KWSN - DSM]

Originally posted by Corners
Then there's also the possibility that Alonso is super quick especially in this years Renault, funny how its automatic to write Fisi off simply because he did so well against many other drivers like Button, Sato, Ralf, Wurz and co. I hope you weren't one of the ones slagging Nick at Sauber ?
Fisi is as fast as Alonso he takes more laps to get there, that is a factor everybody forgets about but the rules these days forces you to deliver immediately. Its like hitting the bullseye with only one dart being thrown, given 20 darts Fisi is just as close and possibly even closer than Alonso, but Fernando seems to be able to go out slowly and get it the first time.
People think its all black and white but every driver reacts differently to cars, tracks, rules, tyres, fuel etc. and if Alonso continues his performance and the knock on effect in the races without and car failures then he'll beat him easily.
There just no justification in saying Fisi is no good or should never have been in a top team its total nonsense.

Fisichella have not especially well against any driver of quality with the possible exception of Button. He was even with Ralf, Sato is nothing and should be the measuring rod for a quality F1 driver. Wurz is an ok F1 nothing more than that.

No I have never slagged Heidfeld, I have slagged Fisichella the last many seasons, because he is nothing more than a mid-field driver with way to much hype, and no real results to back it up.

Alonso is on another and much higher level than Fisichella.

My justification is in the fact that despite the hype and hooplah surrounding Fisichella it wook him until now, and an utter and complete melt-down by Jarno Trulli to become a Renault F1 driver. So there is plenty "justification".

[KWSN - DSM]

Originally posted by micra_k10

And Montoya is showing why he always was in top team right?

I do not understand your question. But I personally do not like Juan Pablo Montoya, I think that he is doing his very high talent a huge dis-service, by lag of application. Despite this I will grudingly place him as the 4th best F1 driver on the current grid.