354 replies to this topic

[froggy]

Ive been a member for a while, read with great interest the posts and hope to find well informed comments but reading all these posts over a period of time I have to say geez there so much pure hatred for webber across all the forums ( not just this one). Hopefully this post doesnt result in me being flamed or tagged as a Webber supporter but I reckon theres too much red mist going on about Webber.

Im not a huge webber fan but it seems the guy cant do anything right by the fans. Whatever he does or says hes the judas. The only other drivers who get so closely scrutinized are in my opinion JV and MS. It used to be Ralf as the other guy to hate but MW has assumed that mantle recently. I think its unfair to all of them. I think its great that Nick got Pole, Kimi was great and maybe so was Webber's lap as well. It all sets it up for a great race.

So where do I stand, first Im an Aussie but not a huge Webber fan ( maybe Im the Judas). Personally I reckon Kimi is the ticket
( not convinced about Alonso, and my sentimental favourite is Trulli - story there- but I hope webber proves his doubters wrong).

I figure that these guys are out there doing a job we can never do to a level we can never achieve as we all lead comparatively mundane jobs ( even doing animation is mundane) . All I want to see as a long time F1 fan is to see great races, some overtaking, some younger drivers pushing up against Schummi the champ and seeing a race that has me hanging onto the seat. Im enjoying seeing the new generation jockeying to take over the 'mantle'.

I sort of figure every driver out there has made some pretty stupid statements from time to time and suffered from 'foot in mouth disease'. I just dont see a balanced view on Webber here, other drivers make some pretty wild statements from time to time but its all lost in the wash. Last year it seemed to ralf, maybe its webbers turn this year, who will it be next year?

I suppose my question is why does Webber have all you guys just jumping at the bit to flame every lap, statement etc, I sort of just dont get it and Im a guy who animates Duck Dodgers shooting Marvin for a living so I know all about "kabooms" and stuff ( geez every episode Daffy is almost flamed to crisp but thats cartoons) but I figure its time to relax on it a bit.

[Nasty McBastard]

ive been asking the same thing.

im an aussie and therefor im biased. but at the end of the day webber seems to be a decent bloke who has a fair level of talent, and whos worked as hard, if not harder than most to get a f1 drive.

if you take away the MS, senna and JV threads, webber would be the guy that seems to cause the most angst around here.

really cant see why.

[Orin]

Most of the comments are made by F1 fanboys who just like to put other drivers down to boost their own favourites - I doubt most people hate Webber. I've been a little disappointed with him this season, especially in terms of racecraft, but he's always someone I've watched closely and I think his season may be on the upturn at last. I hope so, he's always shown a lot of potential.

Having said that, his "he just sits there" comment is likely to be engraved on his tombstone!

[sejanus]

yeah I'd love to know.

I think his Australian way of speaking is one factor. But there are some really amazingly stupid and ignorant comments made about him by some members of this forum, it's bordering on blind hatred. Jealousy perhaps?

[HBoss]

Because he talks to much.

[eoin]

Fair question.

He has a rep as a bit of a loud mouth and people don't like that. He also was touted as a top driver after doing very little, which again probably pissed people off as their fav. driver might have done alot more and was never considered top drawer material.

Personally I like him, as he is a straight talker. He hasn't really built himself up as a future great, more the media than anyone else.

[carbonfibre]

He has said some strange things like the comment that Heidfeld wasnt doing much etc but i've got the feeling that he is a nice bloke and a good driver.

[Nasty McBastard]

that old chestnut.

driver a speaks his mind and people bitch

driver b never says a word and people bitch

driver c speaks his mind and everyone loves him for it

work it out

[lanius]

I think it's because he's Australian, the world hates Australians.

[Arrow]

Its because he speaks his mind, and in this world, if you talk you have to back it up because everyone waits to jump all over you if you fail. Like most of this forum.

[Arrow]

Originally posted by lanius
I think it's because he's Australian, the world hates Australians.

Nah thats Americas.

[waynemanor]

'I think it's because he's Australian, the world hates Australians.'

Thats Rich.

[woftam]

There are always people just waiting for a chance to bash a driver.

JV, MS , JPM & MW most noticeably

Personally i don't understand the point.

Some posters have class and some have none i guess

[lanius]

I was kidding guys.

The hatred towards Webber probably stems from him being arrogant.
Arrogance is tolerated better if your deeds can back it up, if not, people will turn on you more.

[Nasty McBastard]

and thats the root of it all.

arrogance. it does piss people off. its why people dont like ms or JV or senna....

people use that word alot in relation to webber.

personally i cant see it myself. i dont see where hes any more arrogant than anyone else in f1.

[froggy]

Agree with you all, and lanius I like your tongue in cheek reply, I reckon

1. Hes got there on graft and hard work, not money
2. He says it how it is- I respect that
3.he now is in a situation where he has the opportunity to back it up ( that will be the telling thing about he will be seen in the patheneon of motorsports)- jury is out
4. His gravestone most certainly will read "He just sits there" maybe unfairly so but hey its a comment, but whats the context?
5. I never remembered a driver getting such a rough reception- is that right?

Thats my two cents, hope he delivers but if he doesnt in the next couple of years, hell hes had the chance and didn't take it, thats my take

[kismet]

I don't hate (or even dislike, for that matter) Webber, but if I did, it'd be precisely because he's supposed to be this top bloke worthy of universal admiration and nothing but good things in life.

To be fair, it's this smug sense of entitlement that rubs me the wrong way rather than the person in question. Unless he happens to be advocating that view himself. And while I can think of drivers who have a bit of a knack for doing this, Mark isn't really one of them.

Besides, I don't think there's that much Webber hatred around. It's just that you tend to be more sensitive to insults slung at your favourites.

[xype]

I don't hate him, I'm just waiting for him to prove himself. Hating a driver would be a bit too much...

He didn't do half bad, as I see Heidfeld being quite a good driver. Sure, Webber is a very self confident guy (something many here, in combination of being outspoken, mistake for arrogance, I guess), but I don't dislike him for that. The only thing I can positively say about him - and Heidfeld - is that for all the talk about "Wait till they get their hands on a good car!", well, they didn't get their hands on a good car yet. If anything, Williams is making them both look bad until now. *shrug*

I think most people just love to mock hyped thingies that aren't living up to "it", be it a Formula 1 driver or a gaming console or the next iPod Killer ™.

[skinnylizard]

i liked the guy, i was rooting for him. then his talk started exceeding his walk and then he made those smart ass comments bout Heidfeld.
we all know who just sits there now.
i mean **** webber was the slightly quicker one but Nick has beaten him to pole, podium and highest finish in the same car.

[lukywill]

fortunately williams is not jaguar. he was already started to denegrate heidfeld with the famous remark of just siting there. he shows a impressive qualification perfomance and now even heidfeld stole him the first 05 williams pole. in races he doesn´t impress at all. a poor overtaker also.
i hope he has sucess with williams.

it isn´t popular when you see drivers trying to destroy their team mates with outside politics when they have the edge on the track.

[woftam]

The just sits there comment - I'm sure wasn't meant as a slight at Nick. But the Aussie press grabbed it and ran with it. Most of them can't wait for him to fail i think.

Anyway this is from F1 Racing mag in the Mark Webber diary.

{Quote}
"I've now spent a bit of time with my new team-mate Nick Heidfeld. I actually drove with Nick in 99 when he was part of the Mercedes sportscar squad for Le Mans, although we didn't share the same car. I also raced against him in Formula 3. Nick is very fast and i think we are both dragging good performances out of the FW27 and pushing each other. He's been driving F1 for almost eight years and has now been on the podium twice. I think we are a good young blend who can be trusted to get the most out of the cars" {unquote}

Of course this is a boring statement so it doesn't get noticed.

[Jason]

This whole perception that MW some great racing talent is largely based on the fact that he's beaten every less experienced teammate to come his way. So, racing-wise he hasn't done a lot to earn anyone's respect. I was actually rooting for the guy, when he was on Minardi. Then, when he went moved to Jaguar, I saw a whole another side of him. First off, some of his moves were rather dubious (ie. squeezing other drivers to the very edge of the track). Then there was the way he openly gloated about beating AP. I don't even like AP, but that's bad form. Then his comments about NH were especially stupid, given the fact they're teammates. I lost respect for JV when he slammed JB, while at BAR, and really what MW did isn't that different. It's not that hard to see why people dislike someone who has done very little, but is more than willing to talk others down.

[Schuting Star]

Originally posted by skinnylizard
i liked the guy, i was rooting for him. then his talk started exceeding his walk and then he made those smart ass comments bout Heidfeld.

Pretty much sums up my feelings about him. He has to back up his comments and so far he hasn't done it. He will though, he's a good driver and he'll get it right.

[Isamu77]

When BAR were setting fast times in preseason testing 03/04
Webber(Jaguar) was one of those saying BAR were fakin it

add the Nick just sits there comment and you have a recipe for dislike
especially when the quiet guy gets the job done

[v@sh]

I think its a number of things.

When he made the Nick comment, he seemed really defensive in his comments and used Nick as the reason why he was 'underperforming' or not matching the expectations of what everyone had of him for this season so far and at the time in some respects it was true but Nick has certaintly matched Webber in terms of pace in race and qualifying so that puts a bit more egg in his face.

Theres also the massive expectations from everyone, the media, other drivers, and especially the fans. I think these expectations originated from the media, and insiders in the paddock, and now that he hasn't lived up to these expectations - coupled with the fact he hasn't reached the podium (until Monaco last week) - everyone is having a go at him.

What we saw at Minardi and Jaguar is that he had massive potential - both Purnell and Stoddard saw that and lauded him as a future world champion - hence theres hype already. Whether he reaches that potential is up to him and the car given to him. I also think the whole saga with Pizzonia and Webber didn't go down with a lot of Brazillian/Aussie fans which is a shame.

I think fans expect him to:

- Score regular podiums and wins to justify his hype despite what machinery is under him. Particularly now that he is in a Williams. Yet everyone thinks just because its a Williams, its going to be up the front all the time irrespective of their competitors. Whereas with the Jaguar and Minardi it was different. All some fans seem to care about is the stats i.e. poles/fastest laps/etc.

His comments about his team-mates is another thing that seems to get up the wrong end of some fans. As plenty have commented, yet people always focus on the negative comments he creates not the positive comments, why? becuase its not headline news. He tells it like he thinks it is, he has an opinion like we all do. They expect friendly nice comments about their team-mates everytime, what was it like in the golden era of F1? It'll be much worst than what he says.

I also think that fans percieve him to be an all high and mighty Schumacher who thinks hes the best and slag off his team-mates even if he hasn't done anything in F1. I think thats another one his biggest cruxes.

The fact is that he agrees with all the fans that bag him out that he hasn't done nothing in F1. He has repeated it over and over again, and agrees with some of the fans of his races as well yet some of these f1 fans instead of commenting that he didn't do that well and leaving it at like prefer to keep knocking him down. Thats what I find most weird about this BB and other BB's.

Some fans expect him to be on it from the off. Its just odd. Fisi and Montoya are doing as bad as Webber if not worst. Webber could of been way behind Heidfield and the stuff we see on BB's could be much worst.

For e.g. Heidfield got pole today, and Webber got third which is a good result for both and Williams, yet fans still had to put in the comment about Nick in there just to shove Webber down. Different personalities, different driving styles. So what? Its not that hard to accept.


End result. Its hard to please everyone.

This whole perception that MW some great racing talent is largely based on the fact that he's beaten every less experienced teammate to come his way. So, racing-wise he hasn't done a lot to earn anyone's respect. I was actually rooting for the guy, when he was on Minardi. Then, when he went moved to Jaguar, I saw a whole another side of him. First off, some of his moves were rather dubious (ie. squeezing other drivers to the very edge of the track). Then there was the way he openly gloated about beating AP. I don't even like AP, but that's bad form. Then his comments about NH were especially stupid, given the fact they're teammates. I lost respect for JV when he slammed JB, while at BAR, and really what MW did isn't that different. It's not that hard to see why people dislike someone who has done very little, but is more than willing to talk others down.

I know you dislike Webber which is your opinion. That is your perception of him, however, I think racing-wise he has earned a lot of respect from most inside the paddock. While he was just against Yoong, Wilson and Pizzonia he has had a lot of good results in previous formulae and F1 - otherwise he wouldn't be driving for Williams - even if he didn't win a championship in lower formulae.

Openly gloated about beating Pizzonia? I'd like to see the quotes even though they both had a strained relationship. I know he talked down Pizzonia and called him a liar and loser and in some respects thats how he felt about what Pizzonia said about the Jaguar boys. Hes just saying his opinion. I think you have the perception that all the drivers have to say nice things about their team-mates to make the team better.

As for this moves? Everyone knows Webber is aggressive when attacking or defending and sometimes it works or not, but I don't see any of the drivers complaining about his tactics. The only one that comes to mind is Schumacher at the Nurburgring last year when he was coming out of the pits.

[Jason]

Originally posted by lanius
I think it's because he's Australian, the world hates Australians.

Is it actually common for Australians to openly gloat about beating someone? That's the perception I get when I mention my issue about what MW said of beating AP. Being a "sore winner" will turn people against you in a hurry, especially on the international stage.

[woftam]

Originally posted by Jason

Is it actually common for Australians to openly gloat about beating someone? That's the perception I get when I mention my issue about what MW said of beating AP. Being a "sore winner" will turn people against you in a hurry, especially on the international stage.

Nope dead wrong - But our Press? Now thats another question

[froggy]

Hey v@sh great post, Im bbq'n at the moment but I agree with you, cant respond to much or else girlfriend will kill me if i crisp the food but I like he sentiments

[bnlflo]

Austria 2003... this is why I don't like him.

Well, I'm a JV fan, but usually I don't dislike everyone for critizising him - except Mark:
In the Saturday qualifying, Button made a mistake in the last corner, and there got some dirt on the track. JV was sliding on that dirt, and even put some more dirt on the track because of that. Then it was Mark's turn, and he had some trouble there, too. Went to the press and says something like "Jacques did a great job of ruining my lap."

Or after JV left in the end of 2003, and Mark said "we are not losing a champion, and Jacques is difficult".

The point is: he just has to prove himself - they say he is WDC material - I don't think so.
So he should just stop slamming other drivers in public, especially those who have reached far more than himself. MW has yet to become WDC, and honestly, I don't see THAT happen at all.

(yeah, 2003, that was quite a while ago - but Mark did not change at all, concerning statements like these)

[Tomecek]

Actually, this question is worth to think about, however many of my fellows hate him too. Interesting.

I'd say big reason for that would be that he is talking too much about others and furthermore he is talking about them not precisely in good way.

Look what he said about Heidfeld after Imola I think and how he looks today after Europe qualifing. Just one example of many...

[v@sh]

Well, I'm a JV fan, but usually I don't dislike everyone for critizising him - except Mark:
In the Saturday qualifying, Button made a mistake in the last corner, and there got some dirt on the track. JV was sliding on that dirt, and even put some more dirt on the track because of that. Then it was Mark's turn, and he had some trouble there, too. Went to the press and says something like "Jacques did a great job of ruining my lap."

Or after JV left in the end of 2003, and Mark said "we are not losing a champion, and Jacques is difficult".

The point is: he just has to prove himself - they say he is WDC material - I don't think so.
So he should just stop slamming other drivers in public, especially those who have reached far more than himself. MW has yet to become WDC, and honestly, I don't see THAT happen at all.

Well he told the truth or his opinion of the truth. If it did ruin his lap, then so be it. Theres been far worst excuses than someone else ruining your lap like lying altogether.

I think that was a more personal nature. Webber seems to show more to the press guys he doesn't get along with e.g. Montoya, Villeneuve, Pizzonia and he does he subtly sometimes, others not so. Not like hes going to care, everyone is wishing a battle or something between drivers these days.

Thats the whole point, they say he is WDC material, he has the potential to do so. Whether he is or not is people's opinion but the potential is there and thats where the hype comes from. Whether he thinks Jacques or Pizzonia or Montoya or any of the drivers are any good is his opinion - I don't see any relation of his comments to Jacques driving but all of those comments on a personal nature.

Did you know you are criticising Webber on exactly what you are doing? Having an opinion, whether he thinks they are good or bad.

[Antonio]

I´d like to congratulate v@ash , a fantastic post that enhanced the quality of this thread.

I agree 100% with him, but I'd like to point out sth:
if u show a lack of respect for people, don't expect people to respect you.

Webber is like Button at the moment: too much talking, no facts to prove them right.

[boost]

He is more and more in the media spotlight, and ppl cant stand that.

Lets see.. brazilans hate him cause he destoryed pizza boys racing cred.
Asians hate him cause he destroyed some other driver, Name escapes me, Young?
Brits hate him cause they hate aussies in general, and he demolished some brits as well.
Euros hate him cause hes better looking then all the other drivers.
Aussies hate him cause hes a smarmy lucky bastid ;)
Oh i heard his mom hates him for not cleaning his room.


Always freaks around to take cheap shots.

[eoin]

Originally posted by Isamu77
When BAR were setting fast times in preseason testing 03/04
Webber(Jaguar) was one of those saying BAR were fakin it

add the Nick just sits there comment and you have a recipe for dislike
especially when the quiet guy gets the job done

And in the end they pretty much were, because they never had the fastest car ;)

[DerChef]

Hate is such a strong word.

I would prefer to call it Total Lack of Respect.

As I have stated before he is the Harry Kewel with a Helmet on.

I was stunned as to how he manged to get the Jaguar drive in 2003 and even more so to Williams this year.

Such as Justin Wilson left him for dead in F3000 I have little doubt that Nick Heidfeld will have clear blue water between himself and Mr Webber by the seasons end.

I would even go so far as to say he is responsible for Jaguars demise in F1.

[Gilles4Ever]

In the English speaking press he is the best thing since sliced bread and I feel that he has not done anything to be rated as highly as he is. He is good, make no mistake.

/Gilles4Ever rinses mouth out with soap

He has had some breaks that I think he got because of his language/nationality - do you really think Paul Stoddart would have signed him if he was Mongolian?

Webber was hired by Williams, no test no nothing - he is their wonder boy. Heidfeld had to go through a shootout and he is beating Webber. Maybe Webber isn't the second coming after all.

Flavio manages Webber and Alonso - their F1 carreers almost identical in terms of where they started, how long they have been in F1 and what breaks they got. Flavio clearly feels Alonso is better or else he would have Webber in a Renault and Alonso in a Williams.

He still has to convince me he is worth twice what Heidfeld is being paid.

[SkorbiF1]

he smells. :

[Jason]

Originally posted by v@sh

I know you dislike Webber which is your opinion. That is your perception of him, however, I think racing-wise he has earned a lot of respect from most inside the paddock. While he was just against Yoong, Wilson and Pizzonia he has had a lot of good results in previous formulae and F1 - otherwise he wouldn't be driving for Williams - even if he didn't win a championship in lower formulae.

Openly gloated about beating Pizzonia? I'd like to see the quotes even though they both had a strained relationship. I know he talked down Pizzonia and called him a liar and loser and in some respects thats how he felt about what Pizzonia said about the Jaguar boys. Hes just saying his opinion. I think you have the perception that all the drivers have to say nice things about their team-mates to make the team better.

As for this moves? Everyone knows Webber is aggressive when attacking or defending and sometimes it works or not, but I don't see any of the drivers complaining about his tactics. The only one that comes to mind is Schumacher at the Nurburgring last year when he was coming out of the pits.

The quotes are there, I'm not going to bother posting them AGAIN, as I don't want to get into that whole debate once more. Last time it got so silly, by the end I had all the MW fans convinced I was some huge AP fan.

Don't push me on this one, otherwise I'll dig up the quote and you won't like it.;)

[Naushad78]

I like a driver who talks and I think that Weber brings mouthfuls of fresh air to the paddock. Having said that, I'd like to see his track-talk match his paddock-talk. That's all really.

[giddyup409]

he's to close to ms ;)

[Ben]

Originally posted by DerChef


I would even go so far as to say he is responsible for Jaguars demise in F1.

...And you'd be wrong.

What possible reason could Jag's demise been his fault? I can accept that you might not like him but keep the criticism plausable please.

You don't need rubbish like that to point out that, yes Nick Heidfeld is probably relatively underpaid given the performances, but you wouldn't have predicted that when the contracts were signed.

Ben

[RedIsTheColour]

Wrong tribe: it's very fashionable to denigrate Anglos.

[vroom-vroom]

Because this is a goddam BB and we like it this way.

[Corners]

Originally posted by skinnylizard
i liked the guy, i was rooting for him. then his talk started exceeding his walk and then he made those smart ass comments bout Heidfeld.
we all know who just sits there now.
i mean **** webber was the slightly quicker one but Nick has beaten him to pole, podium and highest finish in the same car.

Yes I was looking for something accurate amongst the posts and that's the one...you could see Webber fuming at Monaco instead of just taking it like a man that he was soundly beaten by his teammate on the day. Even today at the Nurburgring he was hinting that Nick had less fuel, he is very keen to find an excuse.
On other occasions he is very professional and that's probably why people have generally liked him but he just let's his inner thoughts spill out now and then and they are just a touch bitter.
Nothing that bad just something noticable.

[Mauseri]

I don't hate Webber. I just didn't think that his performances in Jaguar were on par with the likes of Schumacher or Räikkönen. And that has appeared quite true. There was too much hype on him and that got even stronger counter reaction. I quess this thread might be a sign of frustation because he didn't yet live up to the exceptations he was put under.

[Marsh]

Im not a massive fan, but i dont not like him...

i think his attitude in Monaco sucked IMO... 1st podium, difficult race, at least give abit of a smile in Monte of all places...

thats put me off him abit.

[AlexS]

He's a friend of Shumi

[zooropa21]

I generally think of Aussies as fun loving, free spirited, open minded (my take anyway). For some reason I feel Webber is anything but this, and sometimes appears to me as a big snob. His attitude at the press conferences after Monaco or today after qualifying are a reflection of that.

Zooropa21

[alan_owens]

His seemingly bitter and denigrating comments don't exactly leave you with a favourable opinion of, or a great deal of respect for the guy. I don't hate him, but there are so many other drivers to cheer for instead.

[Williams]

1. He had very high-profile start to his career, pulling off *points for Minardi* in his *first F1 race*, and his *home circuit*. Does it get any better that ?

2. He has received kudos from people in the pitlane for his work ethic and attitude, which many compared to that of Schumacher.

3. He has the Alan Jones way of saying exactly what he is thinking on any given subject.

4. Having now arrived at the front, he hasn't quite delivered the results.

As a result he is under enormous pressure and he has created some of it himself. But it explains somewhat the criticial attitude towards him, which won't go away until those results get delivered. The amazing thing, of course, will be the sudden shift in attitude on the part of many critics that occurs if and when those results do get delivered.

There are many examples of drivers that have begun their careers in very deep troughs, who have gone on to become truly great drivers. If that happens to Mark, it wouldn't the first time by a long shot. So Webber fans can take some comfort from that fact.

Good luck Mark !