6 replies to this topic

[Superliner II]

The new generation of F1 gearbox's made from carbon fibre got me wondering if it is possible to use carbon fibre to make a crankcase in any sort of engine, not just F1.

Cheers

Laury

[voice_of_reason]

Yes its possible but not permitted for F1.

[J. Edlund]

It will likely be very difficult to make a crankcase of carbon fibre reinforced polymers. In the case of an aluminum head and an aluminum block both the head and block will expand the same amount due to the increased temperature when the engine is running. With a CFRP block that will not be the case. If one chose to make only part of the block, like an outer crankcase of CFRP (compare with BMW's aluminum/magnesium blocks used in production cars) you will have the same difficulty.

In the case with the gearbox you can make the internals of titanium which then holds the bearings for the shafts and so on. Titanium has properties similar to CFRP, and it also won't corrode when in contact with carbon fibre like aluminum can.

Based on the difficulty using CFRP I would rather chose to make the engine block of a metal matrix composite, like for example SiC reinforced aluminum or beryllium-aluminum. Still, any weight advantage will come very low down in the car, if one can save that weight at the airbox, cylinder heads or valve covers for example that will be much better.

[CFD Dude]

Composite crankcase can be done, in the case of the polimotor it was nearly the entire head & block and parts of the pistons. You can read more about it here;

http://forums.atlasf...light=polimotor

and if you search I know there are a few more threads on this topic.

In F1's case the rules don't allow it, composite materials can not be used in the engine.

[Greg Locock]

You can adjust the CTE of a layup by using appropriate amounts of Kevlar, which has the handy property of having a negative CTE. This would in theory allow you to match the CTE of the plastic and metal bits.

It makes a lot more sense to design around the high CTE than this approach, if you can.

Boring war-story- we designed an aluminium chassis. We welded it up in a weekend. It weighed 12 kg. We had a carbon fibre chassis built at great expense by a guy who regularly builds CF frames for motorbikes, it weighed 11 kg. To be fair it was a lot stiffer than the aluminium one, but it was a bastard to design and build.

[garretc]

On the subject of Polimotor Research, if any of you all are still around, I was the mechanic on the project back in the early 80's. Worked for Matty Holtzberg in Fairlawn, NJ. Any photos of dyno work you may find probably have me in it. Be glad to tell you what I know. It was at the outset of the project. Me, Matty, and a draftsman were it. Ford SVO put the bucks up. Just came across this site doing a Google on Matty to see what he went on to. Pat Symmonds (now in F1, with Renault?) turned me onto the job when I decided to return to the States after selling my engine building business in the U.K. (Auriga Racing Engines). I eventually went on to A&P school, then ran a 2/3 car FF team out of Waitsfield, VT for a couple of years for a few guys. Then clawed my way back to the west coast.
Any news of Matty would be appreciated. I have photos and articles I would be glad to share, but not too many. Do have prototype parts still. Fiberglass rod, carbon fiber valve stem w alum (proto) head, torlon piston, maybe some other stuff. The crankcase was a no-brainer, easily accomplished. Strong & light.
Feel free to get in touch. I got out of motor racing in favor of making a living, but still enjoy it. Most all the guys I drove with in the U.K. are out now too. Derek Daly is one name you'll probably recognise. Derek Warwick, Rob Kennedy, Terry Gray, Tony Lanfranchi was doing Saloons w Gerry Marshall - damn, the names go on and on. A few of my engine customers are still out there pedalling around the road courses.
All the best, Garret Conklin, garretc@earthlink.net

[NTSOS]

I turned my cousin on to Matty and Polimotor in the eighties.....it sounded really good. He had an Opel that he raced in SCCA whatever class and he decided to try out a set of composite/plastic piston pins. I was there the day he fired up his new motor with Matty's pins in place.....the world was a new place full of hope and technology. The motor ran for approximately 2 minutes and then a pin failed whilst he simply blipped the throttle. The miraculous new lightweight composite/plastic pins that were supposedly as strong as steel, were in fact lightweight plastic pins that were actually as strong as plastic.

John