46 replies to this topic

[simonlewisbooks]

I have some unidentified photos of a Hillclimb in Scotland which must be 1937-38 judging by what's on the other negs in the same strips (Donington GP!) and assume it's Bo'Ness from one or two shots of the Snake chicane along the top straight - I see there are hillclimbs from this era listed on Hans Etzrodt's site as "Kinneil" which I think is the name of the estate on which this hill is/was located?

Paddock scene in 1937 with BMWs numbered 34 (ASC 131 on the reg plate) and 38 (plate obscured ends ??S 79) plus a Frazer-Nash numbered 32


Jaguar SS100 in 1937 reg plate reads DUU 745 with competition number 39


I think this is an Alta in 1938


A BMW in 1938 ASC 131 again with competition number 43 - T W Meikle?


Frazer Nash 1938 competiton number 21 (reg plate obscured reads CM? ??0)


Anyone help with the identities of the cars and drivers featured? I have other shots of these events.

Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com
Suppliers of Motor Sport Books And Photos since 1985.

[Ted Walker]

Simon. I agree with the Bo ness location, I have similar shots.Its an Alta alright.

[David McKinney]

I believe the venue was known before the War as Kinneil (or sometimes Hamilton Drive) and after the War as Bo'ness

[Graham Gauld]

Reference the photos. They were taken at Bo'ness hill climb.

In the first photo car 38 on the right (AYS 79) is a Frazer-Nash BMW Chassis 85.030 and was owned and run by Jack Miller from Glasgow. He won his class at the climb with this car in August 1938.
I cannot exactly confirm car 34 but it was possibly run at the event by J Elliot Playfair.
What is confusing is that it has an Edinburgh registration number. To add to the mystery David H Murray - not to be confused with the Ecurie Ecosse David Murray - was a shareholder and Director of Frazer-Nash and ran that year in Scotland with a Frazer-Nash BMW and he came from Edinburgh.

Jaguar Not sure but I D K Stuart ran an SS100 at the same meeting.

An Alta was run by D P Laird at Bo'ness in 1938 fitted with a" V8 engine" according to contemporary reports. I can find no record of any V8 Alta of the late 1930's period.
However, in May 1939 Alastair Cormack from Edinburgh, a factory driver for Alta, brought his factory car to Bo'ness and shared it with H Jardine Stuart and I think the photo is of this car taken in 1939

The Frazer-Nash is a mystery however A P F Fane did own a Frazer Nash Shelsley with the registration CMH500 could this be a later owner. It is not Fane at the wheel.

Sorry not to be of greater help
Graham Gauld

[Hans Etzrodt]

SPEED HILL CLIMB by C.A.N. May shows on p 43 a course map of Bo'ness, located at Kinneil Wood. I can find no mention of a Kinneil course, run in the thirties - not even in Uphill Racers by Chris Mason.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
To add to the mystery David H Murray - not to be confused with the Ecurie Ecosse David Murray - was a shareholder and Director of Frazer-Nash and ran that year in Scotland with a Frazer-Nash BMW and he came from Edinburgh.

Murray had a 328 in 1937 and 1938, and ASC131 is surely an earlier model

...in May 1939 Alastair Cormack from Edinburgh, a factory driver for Alta, brought his factory car to Bo'ness and shared it with H Jardine Stuart and I think the photo is of this car taken in 1939

Presumably not Cormack's earlier car which IIRC had been sold by then?

[Graham Gauld]

Reference the various names :

Bo'ness is short for Boroughstounness the name of the town where the course was situated

Kinneil is the name of the Estate

The estate was originally owned by the Duke of Hamilton hence Hamilton Drive.

David,

Reference Cormack, yes his own private car was sold but this was probably loaned by Alta as he was a factory driver for the team.

GG

[simonlewisbooks]

Thanks Graham, you seem to have nailed most of them.
I have one other SS100 shot, reg plate SS4630 and competition number 46. The car is in full road trim.

There's also this one, which looks like a Roesh Talbot with radiator cowel

The number is 50 , the obscured reg plate appears to be BO??23 .

Is Bo'Ness still there in it's original form or has it been the victim of housing development?

Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com
Supplying Enthusiasts with Motor Sport Books and Photos since 1985

[Graham Gauld]

Simon

The lower part of the hill climb, which runs beside the coast road from Bo'Ness to Grangemouth, is still there and just before the railway bridge there is a low stone wall and a field on the left. This was the paddock and the climb went from there.

The upper part of the climb around where the Snake used to be is now a housing estate and there is now a new road crossing the old climb at right angles.

Scottish Sporting Car Club started the hill climb in the mid-1930's. The full story of it is in SCOTTISH MOTOR RACING AND DRIVERS. In the late 1950's Lothian Car Club took over the running of the climb and in 1956 David Murray drove the Le Mans winning D-type Jaguar up the hill as a demonstration, no helmet etc. All the leading hill climb people ran there including Denis Poore with the Alfa Romeo, Raymond Mays, Stirling Moss, Peter Collins and all the usual Scottish rabble.

GG

[Proditto]

Graham,

The car is indeed my fathers. On the Alta thread it is shown on the hill in a drawing.
At that time as you state the hill was known as Kinneil.

Sandy Cormack

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks

There's also this one, which looks like a Roesh Talbot with radiator cowel

The number is 50 , the obscured reg plate appears to be BO??23 .



Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com
Supplying Enthusiasts with Motor Sport Books and Photos since 1985

Surely BGH 23 the ex Mike Couper Talbot 105 which lapped Brooklands at 130mph

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by Dutchy


Surely BGH 23 the ex Mike Couper Talbot 105 which lapped Brooklands at 130mph

Yes I'm sure you are correct Dutchy, the name had escaped me previously.Cheers

[Stephen W]

There should be a revival event at Bo-ness on the 17th May to commemorate the Inaugural Round of the British Hillclimb Championship which took place on that day in 1947.

[Graham Gauld]

Stephen

I think you will find it is not an "event" as such as only a small part of the climb exists. Were they to run the original climb I am afraid the cars would run straight into a housing estate ! There may be one or two cars there but, as I say, I have not heard much about the affair in the past few weeks.
Sadly I am tied up that weekend and can't get over for it. However, I know that a small commemorative book has been written about the Bo'ness climbs to which I contributed a number of photographs. I will advise details of the publisher and how to obtain copies once I see the final book as some of our group may be interested in it.

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
Stephen

I think you will find it is not an "event" as such as only a small part of the climb exists. Were they to run the original climb I am afraid the cars would run straight into a housing estate ! There may be one or two cars there but, as I say, I have not heard much about the affair in the past few weeks.
Sadly I am tied up that weekend and can't get over for it. However, I know that a small commemorative book has been written about the Bo'ness climbs to which I contributed a number of photographs. I will advise details of the publisher and how to obtain copies once I see the final book as some of our group may be interested in it.

I understand the local council are very supportive. I too will not be able to make an early trip North although I will be at Knockhill on the Saturday! I'll try to find out what went on and post details as and when.

[Tom MacMillan]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
Stephen

I think you will find it is not an "event" as such as only a small part of the climb exists. Were they to run the original climb I am afraid the cars would run straight into a housing estate ! There may be one or two cars there but, as I say, I have not heard much about the affair in the past few weeks.
Sadly I am tied up that weekend and can't get over for it. However, I know that a small commemorative book has been written about the Bo'ness climbs to which I contributed a number of photographs. I will advise details of the publisher and how to obtain copies once I see the final book as some of our group may be interested in it.

NEWS FLASH!
The Bo'ness Hill Climb Revival now exists as a club and the first event for cars and bikes will be 9/10 August 2008. The vehicles will be to approximately pre 1972 and must be on treaded tyres and without wings. It will be a club members only meeting.
If you would like to join BHCR please send a cheque for £20 along with the membership form to: -

Bill Drysdale
Kirklands
Summerhill
Ayton
Eyemouth
TD14 5QZ

The full history of the track, including details of every meeting held there, can be found in the recently published book Bo’ness Speed Hill Climb – Scotland’s First Motor Racing Venue” by Kenny Baird. Available direct from the author priced £8.99 and £15.99 for the softback and hardback versions. Email kennybairdie@aol.com to order a copy.
More details at www.bonesshillclimb.org.uk/
Just found a 1960's pic archive http://jcrae.smugmug...29284#151434366

[CoulthardD]

The 1960's Picture Archive seems to have a couple of shots of Jimmy Blumer in a Lotus Eleven (pictures 25 and 35). If so, then its more likely to have been 1959 or, even more likely, 1958. But I guess that's still "...circa..." 1960, isn't it?

David Coulthard

[David McKinney]

I wondered about that
There are certainly lots of post-1960 shots

[bradbury west]

Nice shots of Peter Westbury and Phil Scragg, though.
Roger Lund

[bradbury west]

Is no.40 Walton's Chapman Mercury? It is years since I last saw that, probably at Harewood 64/65-ish.
Roger Lund.

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by bradbury west
Is no.40 Walton's Chapman Mercury? It is years since I last saw that, probably at Harewood 64/65-ish.
Roger Lund.

I have made enquiries on this subject and have contacted his grandson - I'll keep you posted on the reply.

[Tom MacMillan]

Originally posted by bradbury west
Is no.40 Walton's Chapman Mercury? It is years since I last saw that, probably at Harewood 64/65-ish.
Roger Lund.

I walked the hill yesterday. It is in a beautiful setting and I am sure it’s return to Scottish Hillclimbing will be welcomed by all enthusiasts. There is a lot of work to be done before next August!

I also visited Bo’ness Motor Museum and picked up a copy of Kenny Baird’s excellent new book on the hill.

It has a complete list of award winners but does not show their competition numbers. JH Walton appears in a variety of cars over the years but the only driver listed for the Chapman Mercury is JP Chapman. I would supply a complete list of the cars Walton drove but I am unsure of the copyright implications.

[rbm]

Originally posted by Tom MacMillan

NEWS FLASH!
The Bo'ness Hill Climb Revival now exists as a club and the first event for cars and bikes will be 9/10 August 2008. The vehicles will be to approximately pre 1972 and must be on treaded tyres and without wings. It will be a club members only meeting.

What kind of meeting is it going to be?

demo, static, speed?

[Tom MacMillan]

It will be a Speed Hill Climb Richard.

[Tom MacMillan]

Motor Sport returns to Kinneil Estate, Bo’ness after a break of over 42 years!

The famous venue has a long history of competition dating back to 1934 and competitors and enthusiasts are eagerly looking forward to a resumption of the racing action.

Over the weekend of 9th and 10th of August 2008 the first speed hill climb meeting since 1966 will be held in the grounds of Kinneil Estate, Bo’ness. The historic venue is being restored with the cooperation and permission of Falkirk Council.

The Bo’ness Hill Climb Revival (BHCR) was founded in 2007 and is organising the event in conjunction with Falkirk Council. Entries for this first Revival meeting will be closed to Club and will be confined to historic racing and sports cars of pre-1973 period.

The track will be slightly shorter than in previous years but remains faithful to the old layout and includes the main spectator areas at Old Paddock and Courtyard bends. Competition will be held on both days following morning practice.

The event is open to the public on Saturday and Sunday. Full details will follow in subsequent Press Releases.

Further details of the club and event can be found on the BHCR website which is regularly updated.

For further information please contact:

Kenny Baird
Press Officer, Bo’ness Hill Climb Revival
Tel. 01324 559629
Mobile: 07906 576 516
E-mail: kenny@bonesshillclimb.org.uk

http://www.bonesshillclimb.org.uk

[rbm]

well what a great little hill climb.

Spider blasting off the line and up into the trees as a steam train crossed the bridge below the start was not just a very evocative sight, the sound was fantastic as well.

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by rbm
well what a great little hill climb.

Spider blasting off the line and up into the trees as a steam train crossed the bridge below the start was not just a very evocative sight, the sound was fantastic as well.

The sounds of vee twins roaring through the Courtyard made the hairs on the back of my neck stand on end! It was thrilling.

David Leigh was the star on Saturday as in the wet he was seconds quicker than everyone else. Spider behaved herself throughout the day and brought smiles to the faces of the crowds up & down the hill.

Sunday and the weather was better although the overnight rain gave the organisers a big headache! With the grass paddock a quagmire and the trailer park flooded the Holding Paddock at the top of the hill took over paddock duties with the cars running down hill into a make-shift assembly area before being fired back up the hill.

It was great to see the ex-David Good Cooper-JAP Mk8 in the hands of David Fyfe, this car set FTD at Bo'ness back in 1961. Other hard-chargers were Terry Wright in the Walton-Cooper-JAP, Alex Brown in the Fairley Mercury Special, Pete Speakman in the Chapman Mercury and Olly Ross who was having a shared drive in Kenny Allen's Elan.

All in all two great days of nostalgic hillclimbing competition - roll-on 2009!

[rbm]

got to say even though it was fairly damp on Saturday I enjoyed every second - even when I attempted to spin the ex- Stan Coldham (Bo’ness wining) Cooper mk2 going into the courtyard a tad to enthusiastically.

[simonlewisbooks]

Any photos chaps?

[D-Type]

Originally posted by Tom MacMillan

~ I would supply a complete list of the cars Walton drove but I am unsure of the copyright implications.

As I understand it there is no copyright on facts per se; only on the way they are reported.

To my simple mind that means that if you make a change as basic as juxtaposing two columns, say driver and car or entrant and driver you aren't breaching copyright. But I'm op[en to correction.

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
Any photos chaps?

I'm in the midst of downloading and then uploading some pics. I thought Richard's efforts in "Kenya" were particularly impressive and was wondering how he managed to fit the handbrake?

;)

[fines]

Originally posted by D-Type
As I understand it there is no copyright on facts per se; only on the way they are reported.

To my simple mind that means that if you make a change as basic as juxtaposing two columns, say driver and car or entrant and driver you aren't breaching copyright. But I'm op[en to correction.

True, facts per se cannot be copyrighted, but if you're simply exchanging columns while copying a list verbatim you are still in breach! That said, a simple note of your source usually helps the situation, even if you copy and paste - nobody's going to sue if you're lazy, but honest!

Well, that's my understanding anyway!

[Stephen W]

Some of the Photos from the week-end:


Tom MacWhirter (Jaguar SS100) wheels his way into the Courtyard (Saturday)


Alasdair McCaig (Ecurie Ecosse Jaguar XK120) splashes through the Courtyard (Saturday)


Terry Wright (Walton-Cooper-JAP) has a photo opportunity (Sunday)


Leon Bachelier in Peter Speakman's Fisher Spyder drives through the Courtyard (Sunday)

[Mistron]

Oops, missed opportunity for a TNF northern northern meeting! I was there Sunday.

Steve, I should have thought to ask you about the Fisher Spyder, but posted the question in the 'graham Gauld' thread.

Unfortunately it broke before I saw its run.

A friend John Wyatt was running a couple of his saabs, but what looked just as much fun was his partner in the wedding hire business running the Jag Mk4 up the hill all weekend - If only the brides knew!

I think all of my friends are planning to enter next year!

anyhow, only a fool would have forgotten his camera

Here is a link to some poor quality camera phone photos on Flickr
http://www.flickr.co...57606668652684/

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by Mistron
Oops, missed opportunity for a TNF northern northern meeting! I was there Sunday.

Steve, I should have thought to ask you about the Fisher Spyder, but posted the question in the 'graham Gauld' thread.

Unfortunately it broke before I saw its run.

A friend John Wyatt was running a couple of his saabs, but what looked just as much fun was his partner in the wedding hire business running the Jag Mk4 up the hill all weekend - If only the brides knew!

I think all of my friends are planning to enter next year!

anyhow, only a fool would have forgotten his camera

Here is a link to some poor quality camera phone photos on Flickr
http://www.flickr.co...57606668652684/

On Saturday the Jag still had flowers in the back window!

The two guys with the white V4 Saab needed a good talking to as they ran with the smae number on the car all day! I just guessed which one was driving!

What happened to the Dark Blue 2-stroke Saab that they practiced as it didn't take any of the timed runs?

Hope you enjoyed the day and I will be there in 2009 so we must organise a TNF gathering!

[Mistron]

same number, but one was in blue overalls, one in red. Where's the confusion

I believe The blue 2 stroke was playing up and john didn't want to risk it on the timed run. I think the silencer he was required to fit was playing havok with the exhause temperature (weird things 2 strokes). I think its quite a trick engine and parts are rarer than rocking horse loo rolls, so they shared the spare V4 car.

He had to fit 3 gearboxes on Sunday morning to get one working though!

[simonlewisbooks]

A conversation I had yesterday revolved around why there were so few Scottish cars and personalities at the Goodwood XK60 event over the weekend, despite a large number of Ecurie Ecosse cars being present....of course we had forgotten the Bo'Ness event was on at the same time.
Understandably it presented a much more attractive proposition for the likes of MacWhirter and McCaig than a long long drive down to the South coast . The weather looked pretty similar however !
Hats off to all those who brought the venue back from the dead in such a short time frame. Well done chaps.

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
A conversation I had yesterday revolved around why there were so few Scottish cars and personalities at the Goodwood XK60 event over the weekend, despite a large number of Ecurie Ecosse cars being present....of course we had forgotten the Bo'Ness event was on at the same time.
Understandably it presented a much more attractive proposition for the likes of MacWhirter and McCaig than a long long drive down to the South coast . The weather looked pretty similar however !
Hats off to all those who brought the venue back from the dead in such a short time frame. Well done chaps.

Disappointingly several driver/car combinations only did the Saturday. The defalters being:

Tom MacWhirter (3.5 Jaguar SS100); Darren MacWhirter (Aston Martin) and Alasdair McCaig (Jaguar XK120)

All three put on a spirited show but were sorely missed on Sunday, especially Darren who was flinging the Aston round like he stole it!

There were several others who only did the one day, David Leigh in Spider being one. However he was in the midst of a charity drive from John O'Groats to Lands End and just popped into Bo'ness for the first day.

[simonlewisbooks]

Already some stuff to be found on YouTube....

[Derwent Motorsport]

Well I admit to just doing the Sunday. despite the paddock being unusable it was a good day and I was competitive with the B amongst the Elans etc.

Bo'ness has a lot of potential, whether twos days is the right format I am not sure. If they get the course lengthened for next year that would be great but perhaps a limit on the entries to 50 or so is right to give enough vfm?

[Stephen W]

I understand that the organisers are looking to move the date to June next year. It could be the week after the Doune British Hillclimb Championship meeting so that competitors could do both events plus fit a holiday in glorious Scotland in between!

[Derwent Motorsport]

Does that imply Stephen that they are moving away from a historic only event? Doune does not get many (any) historics from away.

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by Derwent Motorsport
Does that imply Stephen that they are moving away from a historic only event? Doune does not get many (any) historics from away.

No, however Doune has been suffering with low entry numbers due to the dropped scores rule in the BHC. Over the last few years the class with the largest number of entries at Doune has been the historics!

What the Bo'ness organisers will be trying to do is work with Lothian Car Club to ensure that the Historics can get a run at Doune the week-end before.

[Tom MacMillan]

The website has now been updated with event reports, results and feedback.

Our sincere thanks to everybody who made the weekend such a success despite the atrocious weather conditions.

www.bonesshillclimb.org.uk

[oldclassiccar]

Rather than start a new thread ..

The photo below was sent over to me the other day, it shows a Wolseley Hornet Special setting off from the line at a 50s hillclimb meeting, believed to be in Scotland. Does anyone recognise the venue? more details and larger pics at the link

Thanks, Rick

Wolseley Hornet Special

[Tom MacMillan]

Bo'ness!

[oldclassiccar]

Thanks Tom

Rick