10 replies to this topic

[Finn]

After watching another replay of the safety car and JPM, it struck me that someone could, while leading the queue behind the safety car, use the pit lane to overtake the safety car.

JPM was right behind safety car, he ducked into the pits, had some fuel thrown in and left the pit lane (yes, he ran through the red light) to join slightly behind the safety car. His pit stop would have been approximately 10 seconds, so if the red light was not on 10 seconds prior to JPM emerging he could have 'overtaken' the safety car if he didn't stop for fuel.

Does anyone know exactly when the red light comes on? is it as the safety car passes the pit entrance? or is there scope for people to abuse the pit lane under safety car conditions?

cheers,
finn

[mikedeering]

Reading Adam Cooper's story in this weeks Atlas, in theory this should be possible as the red light is activated manually as the SC crosses the start-finish line. I think with his pitstop, Montoya was actually 6th across the start-finish line (behind Ralf, Kimi, DC, Monteiro and Klein) despite his pitstop (of course as well as running the red light he also repassed DC, Monteiro and Klein, mainly owing to the natre of the pit exit in Montreal. So I guess if he didn't actually pit he could have gotten ahead of the SC.

For someone in Ralf's position - a lap down but towards the front of the pack it might make sense to do a botched pit stop, get waved on through and then come out ahead of the SC and make his lap back. Isuspect though any one doing this would be penalised.

[wegmann]

Originally posted by mikedeering
For someone in Ralf's position - a lap down but towards the front of the pack it might make sense to do a botched pit stop, get waved on through and then come out ahead of the SC and make his lap back. Isuspect though any one doing this would be penalised.

On grounds that they "passed the safety car"? If you're not considered to be following the safety car while you're in the pits, then there's technically no rule that I know of prohibiting it. But then again, I didn't check.

[LB]

one thing I found quite funny was Barrichello dived into the pits, 7 secs later montoya didn't, then Barrichello still managed to get out ahead of montoya... Now why wasn't the red light on for Rubens (answer is probably because the field hadn't lined up yet). when you consider he must have stopped for about 7 secs this is quite significant.

now taking this example , say the safety car came out with 1st and 2nd in line with say 10 laps to go , both are fueled to the end anyway. leader doesn't dive in , 2nd does and trundles through the pitlane overtaking the leader in the pits and is allowed out because the red light isn't on....

[Nikos Spagnol]

The rules state that the red light is on "when the safety car and the line of cars is passing or about to pass the pit exit."

It's not very clear, but the stewards would be wise if they turn the light on everytime the safety car appears on the pit straight, instead of waiting for the dubious "about to pass" time.

[Rediscoveryx]

The red light is there for precisely this reason: To prevent cars from passing the Safety Car or gaining positions while pitting.

[mikedeering]

Originally posted by LB
now taking this example , say the safety car came out with 1st and 2nd in line with say 10 laps to go , both are fueled to the end anyway. leader doesn't dive in , 2nd does and trundles through the pitlane overtaking the leader in the pits and is allowed out because the red light isn't on....

Technically in that scenario the 2nd place car would actually make a whole lap on the rest of the field. If they got out before the red light came on they would be ahead of the SC and could then do another lap and come back around at the tale of the field, when in reality they would then be almost a lap ahead of the other drivers! It would actually be worthwhile in that scenario to speed throught the pits to ensure you get out ahead of the red light, because you would still have enough time to take a stop-go penalty later on and still keep the lead.

I am wasted in my job. I should be on the pit wall devising ways of intepretating the rules in favour of my team. Heck, I can't be any worse than the guys that do it for McLaren.

[wegmann]

Originally posted by Rediscoveryx
The red light is there for precisely this reason: To prevent cars from passing the Safety Car or gaining positions while pitting.

Very well. Too bad this had the unexpected side effect of ruining Montoya's race (even if he had stopped at it).

[Arska]

Originally posted by wegmann


Very well. Too bad this had the unexpected side effect of ruining Montoya's race (even if he had stopped at it).

Negative. The fact that McLaren failed to call him in in a timely fashion or that he was unable to follow the advice given to him, combined with the fact that he in an apparent rush of anger missed the red light ruined his race. Had he waited at the red light, he would have been in a fairly good track position for racing.

[wegmann]

Originally posted by Arska


Negative. The fact that McLaren failed to call him in in a timely fashion or that he was unable to follow the advice given to him, combined with the fact that he in an apparent rush of anger missed the red light ruined his race. Had he waited at the red light, he would have been in a fairly good track position for racing.

Okay, I agree you can blame this one on Montoya. BUT, if he had been further ahead then he was when the safety car was called out, then he would've missed the pits anyway and the same situation would have happened.

In other words, if a 1st-place guy passes the pits, they call the safety car, and the 2nd-place guy goes straight to the pits, then the safety car has essentially ruined the 1st-place guy's race. It'll happen every time and NASCAR, IRL, and CART people all know about it. In fact NASCAR has a rule that you can't pit until they say so. If F1 is going to continue calling safety cars for no reason, they should implement a similar rule.

Regarding Montoya ignoring the red light: As pointed out in the other thread about the incident, he would've came out in roughly 6th place if he had waited for the light to go out (with a crapload of lapped traffic in front). He was in 1st before the incident. Still would've ruined his chance to win.

[edw45]

Here's an actual capture of the incident. JPM's in the pitlane eight to ten lengths ahead of SC. The video shows JPM would have been losing six to eight lengths on SC from that point to the end of speed limit zone. He'd have overtaken the SC anyways by driving though pit exit (which is a shortcut from the actual track).

http://img187.echo.c...49/monty0cd.jpg

Reminds me of Senna's fastest lap through pits at Donnington 1993.

edit: Image changed into link following copyright concern.