41 replies to this topic

[Andrew Kitson]

To back up Twinny's observations from Imola, here are a few shots of the modern F1 paddock from Silverstone today. The care free open atmosphere of the 1960s/70s, with fans able to get autographs and photos of their heroes has sadly long gone. Security guards are everywhere. They say F1 is 'skint', they need to cut costs. Well a Ford Transit and trailer for race car transport might not go amiss! Most teams now have around 8 articulated trucks for equipment, cars and motorhome. Quite a sight nevertheless, but over the top?

The Red Bull 'motorhome':


Toyota:


BAR:


Max's HQ with Bernie's sinister looking bus behind:


A paddock view, McLaren's 'motorhome' to the right and 4 large trucks with raised roofs, backed up to the pit garages to the left:


A German chappy in a bit of a hurry:


Keke and Christian:


Murray talks to Button's father. The girl in the white coat is Eddie Irvine's sister Sonja.


One of my heroes, in corporate RBS tartan:


A random paddock shot. Piers Courage's son Jason is the guy in the wheelchair.

[Mallory Dan]

Andrew, you're quite right, it really is way way OTT isn't it ? Modern GP racing appears to have lost all touch with reality, bring back converted coaches to carry F1 cars I say...

I wonder whether in the 'good old days', 60s/70s perhaps, the more sophisticated teams with their better transporters were also regarded as being too extravagant and OTT in their own way ?

[Macca]

How can they be serious about reducing F1 costs unless they find a way to limit all that extravagance?

Not to mention the 12 mechanics who hover over the tyres at pitstops but don't change them.........

The hundreds of aero/test team/model makers at each teams base...............

The 50kg of ballast the top cars carry. made of depleted uranium or tungsten alloy..........(note to self: if anywhere near an F1 car that catches fire, make tracks upwind rapidly in case the DU ballast degrades.....)



And what they've done so far is limit engines............which most teams get free anyway..............and the manufacturers have to build just as many to run the development & endurance programmes to check they can last 2 races.



Mind you, seeing the size of transporters in F3, BTCC, BGT, etc., and the full pitwall telemetry-under-a-canopy most use, extravagence seems to be endemic to the sport nowadays.



let's not just bring back vans & trailers, but stopwatches, pitboards and shouting, instead of telemetry and radios..........;)


Paul M

[Maldwyn]

It strikes me looking at Andrew's pictures how meticulous everything looks. Even the tamac looks as though it was given a polish before everyone arrived! There are potted plants in evidence and the trucks (if I am permitted to call them that) have been lined up to measured perfection. It looks very much like an outdoor multinational boardroom.

[2F-001]

Somewhere, I have a few faded photos from Silverstone '69 - the first GP I attended - which I must now dig out. A sharp contrast to the pictures above!
Some folk doing trackdays in their leisure time now have considerably more kit and facilities than the big teams had on display back then.

[Criceto]

Not readily apparent from the photographs, but it's a sloppy team these days that neglects to ensure that the licence plates of the transporters are sequential and parked in numerical order.

[2F-001]

Sorry - double post...

[Stephen W]

What's the problem?

All they are doing is spending all those sponsorship dollars!

I suspect we would still be looking at the 'Ford Transit, trailer and one greasey mechanic' but for old Chunky! After all it was he that stated the old sponsorship game!

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Criceto
Not readily apparent from the photographs, but it's a sloppy team these days that neglects to ensure that the licence plates of the transporters are sequential and parked in numerical order.

And of course the tyre maker's name on the transporter wheels should be the right way up, at the top.

The biggest difference between these photos and what I remember from the 70s is the lack of an enthusiastic throng of anoraks, all getting in the way and nobody minding...

Collective noun for a lot of anoraks...a TNF?

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by David Beard


And of course the tyre maker's name on the transporter wheels should be the right way up, at the top.

Wasn't JYS the first to do that, with Paul Stewart Racing? I remember reading about the incredulity of the other F3 teams when the PSR transporter rolled up and the first thing the mechanics did was jack it up and straighten the tyres.

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Vitesse2

Wasn't JYS the first to do that, with Paul Stewart Racing? I remember reading about the incredulity of the other F3 teams when the PSR transporter rolled up and the first thing the mechanics did was jack it up and straighten the tyres.

Blimey, I thought I was joking..

[Andrew Kitson]

Yes it was JYS, a friend worked as a mechanic on his F3 team then ( now he is no.1 mechanic for Kimi at McLaren. First job he had was jack the truck and trailer up, turn the wheels so the tyre logo was at the top and paint the logo with white paint.
Talking of OTT F1 spending, when he first joined McLaren, he spoke of the amazing company Christmas party, in Alexandra Palace, complete with full sized indoor funfair including big ferris wheel, dodgems etc. The party cost £250,000 to put on apparantly.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Maldwyn

Even the tamac looks as though it was given a polish before everyone arrived!

Road cleaning machines were driven through the F1 paddock at regular intervals throughout the four (if not more) days!

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson

The party cost £250,000 to put on apparantly.

Almost as expensive as Haymarket's, then...

[Frank S]

Originally posted by David Beard
Collective noun for a lot of anoraks...a TNF?

A precsion?
A verify?
A confidence?
An obsesson?

A despair
An abandon
An anguish of anoraks.

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Almost as expensive as Haymarket's, then...

1996 is the Christmas do I mentioned. A lot more now no doubt..

[mctshirt]

Originally posted by Macca

The hundreds of aero/test team/model makers at each teams base...............

...and they still can't build a car that can stick to the road when it gets anywhere near the rear of car in front (maybe it's deliberate design because drivers can't be trusted to pass on the track and all passing is to be done in the pitstops to minimise human error and maximise software)

And what they've done so far is limit engines............which most teams get free anyway..............and the manufacturers have to build just as many to run the development & endurance programmes to check they can last 2 races.

Well some engine makers don't seem to know how to do that either...ask Kimi...I think it's a good concept trying to get away from emphasis on the car construction and bringing driver skill back.

[RTH]

Originally posted by Stephen W


I suspect we would still be looking at the 'Ford Transit, trailer and one greasey mechanic'......

Ah,....halcyon days !

Anyone see Sabine Smidt take a new standard diesel Transit around the Nurburgring in 10 min 9 secs on Sunday's Top Gear programme..........overtaking Porsche 911s and superbikes in the process ?............Far more stunning driving than we had seen 7hrs earlier. Left foot braking a Transit through the swoops and fast corners !

Living right next to the circuit apparently she has done more than 15000 laps of the 'ring.

Any of our German colleges know if she has done any racing?
In the last series, having never even sat in an 'S' type before she took it round nearly a minute quicker than Clarkson's best effort after 2 days of trying.

If you missed it ........it's repeated 7.00pm tonight Tuesday 12th July BBC2 UK

[RTH]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Almost as expensive as Haymarket's Christmas party, then...

.........I'm getting a mental picture here...... of one tin of Tesco's 'value' bitter each ?

[Andrew Kitson]

Another thing that you notice, in the modern F1 paddock, is the position of the teams and 'motorhomes' according to constructors championship position.
Bernie's bus is naturally at the front, right by race control, then his F.O.M motorhome and Max's FIA unit.
Ferrari is next, then BAR etc, based on the constructors finishing position in 2004. It would appear that finishing order in this championship is so important to team principals for paddock position next season. If BAR continue to make progress OK, otherwise they may be camped at the Minardi end again as in Villeneuve days. Success seems to be judged on the pecking order behind the pits!

[eldougo]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson

Thanks for those Pics Andrew,however i was wondering what is the story about Piers son Jason and how he became wheelchair bound.?

A random paddock shot. Piers Courage's son Jason is the guy in the wheelchair.
[/B]

[petefenelon]

Many thanks for the pic of Jason Courage - he really does look like his dad doesn't he?

I'd heard of his bike accident, but hadn't heard that he's still involved in motorsport. A brave guy.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by RTH


Ah,....halcyon days !

Anyone see Sabine Smidt take a new standard diesel Transit around the Nurburgring in 10 min 9 secs on Sunday's Top Gear programme..........overtaking Porsche 911s and superbikes in the process ?............Far more stunning driving than we had seen 7hrs earlier. Left foot braking a Transit through the swoops and fast corners !

Living right next to the circuit apparently she has done more than 15000 laps of the 'ring.

Any of our German colleges know if she has done any racing?
In the last series, having never even sat in an 'S' type before she took it round nearly a minute quicker than Clarkson's best effort after 2 days of trying.

If you missed it ........it's repeated 7.00pm tonight Tuesday 12th July BBC2 UK

I think that could be the most popular Ring footage since Derek Bell doing In-Car 956! -- Blimey, it was good. I reckon we should get Ford to send her out there in Supervan III - and put a proper engine in it, not the Prosport V6 that's in there at the moment.;)

Then perhaps she could do a lap in the Renault Espace F1....;)

[2F-001]

Sabine has indeed done quite a bit of racing in the past (some of it I seem to recall under a different surname).
She is seen regularly in the 24-hours, but has for some time also been one of the regular drivers of BMW's M5 "Ring-taxi" which takes punters on speedy laps of the Nordschleife - this has, obviously, added hugely to her lap tally!

For a few years Sabine ran a bar in the village called "Fuchsrohre" - both the bar/diner and its hostess were big hits (naturally!) with the many Ring regulars who flock there month in, month out. (The "Fuchsrohre" closed a year or so ago).

I've had the unusual privilege of lapping the Nordschleife with Sabine in a Mercedes stretched lmousine.
I've also been off the road at Eschbach trying to get out of the way of a menacing M5 hounding me down -- had I realised it was Sabine and the Ring taxi I would have stuck to my line and let her sort it out! Still. it was something to talk about in the Fuchsrohre...

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by Stephen W
I suspect we would still be looking at the 'Ford Transit, trailer and one greasey mechanic' but for old Chunky! After all it was he that stated the old sponsorship game!

Ah... but did he?
Team Gunston ( cigarettes) had their car branded at the South African GP on January 1st 1968.
Jimmy won the race in his Lotus 49 in classic Lotus green & yellow. GLTL first appeared in April. Could this Gunston livery be where Colin got the idea from?

[simonlewisbooks]

If you want a real insight into how it's changed since the start of the sponsorship era - Gold leaf Team Lotus and all that, I have a 45 mins video of an amateur colour cine film from the 1968 British GP and among the extensive practice and race coverage is a lot of paddock stuff which would make a current TV crew weep with envy, it's so "up close" .
There are drivers changing into overalls in the open air, signing autographs very casually, Graham Hill watching the Red Arrows, Bruce McLaren driving up in what looks like a Cortina (interestingly he wore a seatbelt ) and crowds swarming over 'naked' F1 cars while mechanics in oily overalls do real spanner-work without a keyboard in sight. Forghieri in full latin cry, Jack Oliver in a tweed jacket laughing and joking (do F1 drivers have a "laugh facility" these days?) Jacky Ickx taking a swig of a drink without any sign it's part of his contract...
And there is barely a transporter in sight let alone a motorhome.

Heres a few freeze-frames - apologies for the definition, this is just from pointing a digi camera at the tv screen!

Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com

[Andrew Kitson]

Silverstone 1969, photo courtesy of LAT /Autosport.
That is how it should be!

[Mallory Dan]

To go back to my original question, I wonder whether those more mature than I can remember whether 'old farts' of that period regarded, for example, the Matra transporter as OTT ? Or the Tyrrell mechanics as being overly smart, or the Townsend Thoresen signage as being 'too commercial'.

[Andrew Kitson]

I don't know either Dan, I was only a lad at the time too!
Another striking contrast is that in the modern F1 paddock, you will never see a racing car.
You see the trucks, the motorhomes, the potted plants, support vehicles etc etc, but the cars are kept out of sight in pit garages which you cannot see into because of screens and security guards to stop photographers and others getting anywhere near.
I know many folk who work behind the scenes who never see a car all weekend! Only on the TV screens in the motorhomes. If they are lucky though some views from some of the paddocks allow a view of part of the track, such as Hungary.

[Twin Window]

Whilst I once more find myself working within the confines of F1 paddocks (and I'm grateful for the work, don't get me wrong) I nevertheless yearn for the bygone era when I cut my motor racing teeth.

To the extent, in fact, that had the claxon-blaring fanbase and oh-so-dull racing been the norm back then, I can guarentee that I'd never have returned...

(I'm 48, Dan)

[lofong]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson

Ah... but did he?
Team Gunston ( cigarettes) had their car branded at the South African GP on January 1st 1968.
Jimmy won the race in his Lotus 49 in classic Lotus green & yellow. GLTL first appeared in April. Could this Gunston livery be where Colin got the idea from?

Didn't GLTL first appear at Wigram on January 20th when Jim Clark won?

I believe the arrangement with John Player came about due to the fact that advertising on cars in the U.K. was only made 'legal' by the RAC from 1st January 1968. Talks had already been in progress but the agreement was not formalized and first announced to the public until a couple of weeks into January.

[Macca]

Here's one from the paddock after the 1973 Spanish GP at Montjuich Park - Graham Hill taking tea with Denny Hulme, Henri Pescarolo, and various team members (any ID?) before motorhomes had even been thought of.................and a BRM P180 showcar on a stand in the background.


Paul M

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by lofong

Didn't GLTL first appear at Wigram on January 20th when Jim Clark won?

I believe the arrangement with John Player came about due to the fact that advertising on cars in the U.K. was only made 'legal' by the RAC from 1st January 1968. Talks had already been in progress but the agreement was not formalized and first announced to the public until a couple of weeks into January.

Thanks lofong. Didn't know that.

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by Macca


Here's one from the paddock after the 1973 Spanish GP at Montjuich Park - Graham Hill taking tea with Denny Hulme, Henri Pescarolo, and various team members (any ID?) before motorhomes had even been thought of.................and a BRM P180 showcar on a stand in the background.


Paul M

Jabby Crombac is in the picture. you can just see him in familiar flat cap, at the far table to the left.

[David Beard]

I might have posted this before...but anyway....

[Bonde]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Macca


Here's one from the paddock after the 1973 Spanish GP at Montjuich Park - Graham Hill taking tea with Denny Hulme, Henri Pescarolo, and various team members (any ID?) before motorhomes had even been thought of.................and a BRM P180 showcar on a stand in the background.


Paul M
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I wonder if it's Damon in the blue T-shirt and yellow jacket hung over the back of the chair there on the right...

[bira]

Originally posted by Bonde
I wonder if it's Damon in the blue T-shirt and yellow jacket hung over the back of the chair there on the right...

it's a woman!

[CJE]

My 1st F1 race was 1979 at Watkins Glen. It was chaos. We bought tickets ahead of time but walked thru the main gate unchecked??? We wandered around the paddock and garages with no problems - it was unbeleivable! During the race, many hopped the fences and gathered right behind the Armco. I've got some awesome photos from that stupid activity. At the end of the race, an impromptu auction occured in the garages. It was the last race of the season and the teams were literally selling the shirts off their backs rather than take them back to Europe. Unfortunately, we had only enough money to buy gas to get home ....

Next up was the US GP at Detroit in 1983. Bought a 'Photo Pass' for $125US. Allowed access to many areas, including the pits. I've got lots of excellent photos from that weekend!! BUt everything was very controlled, unlike Watkins Glen.

Fast forward to the US GP at Indy. Whatever the 1st year was for that. The paddock was not only fenced off .... but they covered the fences with tarps so fans couldn't even look into the paddock!!!!!!!!!! What the hell is that all about? F1 is so incredibly out-of-touch these days, it's joke.

[Bonde]

Bira,



(...what's your clue...? - thought the watch was too big to be a woman's at that time...)

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Bonde
Bira,



(...what's your clue...? - thought the watch was too big to be a woman's at that time...)

Not too many men wear bras...

[Bonde]

Oh well...I see some creases in the shirt, but try as I might I can't see them as a bra when I enlarge the picture. Anyways, you may all well be right, so I leave it at that and keep my mouth shut on the matter...

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by bira


it's a woman!

Could it be Samantha Hill then?




Simon Lewis

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally posted by Mallory Dan
To go back to my original question, I wonder whether those more mature than I can remember whether 'old farts' of that period regarded, for example, the Matra transporter as OTT ? Or the Tyrrell mechanics as being overly smart, or the Townsend Thoresen signage as being 'too commercial'.

Grand Prix racing has unavoidably become extremely costly, due to elaborate technological advances and the high salaries earned by skilled technicians.......
John Bolster. Autosport, Oct 28 1971, p.21.

Of the cars he said- Ugly freaks need style rethink.
Of the paddock, well he didn't so one may assume it wasn't a point of contention.