31 replies to this topic

[Shiftin]

Not only that, but is there a history/idea to/behind it?

Silverstone, white and blue. Have they always been like this?

The Canadian GP this year, white and blue IIRC, but there have been years where they were white and red. Adelaide, in the 90's, weren't the kerb stones yellow and red/purple? (this is out of my memory)...

I also have seen pics of red-, white- and blue kerbs....

Reason I ask this is because in daily life I am always dealing with paint, colors etc. So I always look at them. And I know a thing or two about how we experience colors. So I wonder, throughout history.... What was the reason for the color-schemes? Just artistical freedom, a real purspose, national interests etc?

In short, what's the history on the colors of kerbstones... And were there other combinations tried in the past. (like brown/pink, or green/orange...;) )

[Darren Galpin]

Green, Red and White was used at the Mexican GP - these were national colours from the flag.

[Rob Semmeling]

Zandvoort had: light blue/yellow and red/white. No idea why.

[Shiftin]

Red, white and blue - Melbourne?

Rob,

Just as I wanted to hit the submit button I saw your reply.

But do you mean 'mixed' colors? Like Tarzan white/red and Scheivlak Light Blue/Yellow at the same race. Or various colors during the years..?

[Rob G]

Brazil had green and yellow, IIRC.

I have an F1 annual from the 1990 season that had each track's kerb stripe colors as part of the book's graphics for each race. I'm at work now but hopefully I'll remember to dig it out and list them after I get home.

[Shiftin]

Interlagos...

But this is white and yellow, Brazil - Interlagos - 1997

But also green and yellow, dunno the year...

I must admit, I followed the pics descriptions. They could be wrong...!

[Rob Semmeling]

Rob,

Just as I wanted to hit the submit button I saw your reply.

But do you mean 'mixed' colors? Like Tarzan white/red and Scheivlak Light Blue/Yellow at the same race. Or various colors during the years..?

Various colours through the years. The blue/yellow ones appeared after the 1983 Dutch GP, and they stayed that colour until the circuit was demolished/rebuilt in 1998-1999. Here's an image I took in 1997:

http://sudschleife.8...oort1997_14.jpg

Prior to that, there were red/white curbs, of which the red bits were rather peculiarly shaped, as seen here:



(Couldn't find a colour image so quickly. Source: www.circuit-zandvoort.nl). I think this shape had something to do with sponsoring by Malboro, but I'm not sure.

To make matters more complicated, I've also seen pictures of regular red/white curbs at Zandvoort, as well as black/white and some white ones.

[Rob Semmeling]

I'd like to add:

it seems to me red/white are the most common colours for curbstones. The quintessential curb in my mind is red/white.

If I had to guess why these colours are often applied, I'd say white, to distinguish it from the tarmac's black (black and white create the biggest colour contrast) and red, because it is an instantly striking, bright colour. This further distinguishes the curbstone from the road surface and the grass, gravel or whatever. In a way, curbs are the boundaries between on-track and off-track, so they need to stand out.

Just some thoughts...

[Shiftin]

Originally posted by Rob Semmeling
If I had to guess why these colours are often applied, I'd say white, to distinguish it from the tarmac's black (black and white create the biggest colour contrast...

In the world of colors, black and white are not considered colors.

Let's look at the color circle of Ostwald.



This is THE reference if you talk about colors. Ever wondered why strawberries/tomatoes are presented/sold in a green package? Ever wondered why gold looks so good at a dark blue background? Etc........

Some colors look better in contrast to another.

I can tell you of experiments....

Ever wondered why hospitals prefer bleu?

I Will tell you a story of an experiment..

I know that a while ago they had some horses (experiment) , really giving all they got. Once the horses got back they put half of them in a blue painted stable, and the other half in a red painted stable. The horses in the red painted stable were for a time much, much longer time uncontrolable.

Same in hospitals. They wan't to calm you. That why there are never aggressive colors there.

Might be the same with F1...

I mean, is there some reasoning behind this? (the kerbs....) Or just what's national or looks good?

[David Beard]

Which was the first race track to have nice friendly sloping kerbstones (as opposed to normal vertical ones) , and which was the first to have 'orrible bumpy ones?

[D-Type]

Originally posted by Rob Semmeling


Various colours through the years. The blue/yellow ones appeared after the 1983 Dutch GP, and they stayed that colour until the circuit was demolished/rebuilt in 1998-1999. Here's an image I took in 1997:

http://sudschleife.8...oort1997_14.jpg

Prior to that, there were red/white curbs, of which the red bits were rather peculiarly shaped, as seen here:



(Couldn't find a colour image so quickly. Source: www.circuit-zandvoort.nl). I think this shape had something to do with sponsoring by Malboro, but I'm not sure.

To make matters more complicated, I've also seen pictures of regular red/white curbs at Zandvoort, as well as black/white and some white ones.

Compare the shape of the red bit to the nose of the car and you have the answer to why so many kerbs are red and white.

[Rob Semmeling]

Originally posted by Shiftin


In the world of colors, black and white are not considered colors.

I know, but I don't agree with that notion. Black and white are colours because I can see them and distinguish them from other colours.

But that's a different discussion which doesn't belong at TNF....

@D-Type: silly of me not to notice! The answer was in the picture. At least I was right about the Malboro sponsoring having something to do with it....

[Barry Boor]

ALL kerbs should be GREEN !

They should be made to looks just like grass.... in fact, they should BE grass.

[Don Speekingleesh]

Originally posted by Shiftin
Interlagos...

But this is white and yellow, Brazil - Interlagos - 1997

But also green and yellow, dunno the year...

I must admit, I followed the pics descriptions. They could be wrong...!

The second one is in the pit lane, so it's probably different to the rest of the track.


Most tracks have a white lines around the outside of the tracks, with yellow in the pitlane. But Melbourne is yellow all the way around.

[maczippy]

Well, speaking from a purely photographic standpoint I love the "glow and bounce" that the yellow and blue kerbs give to to motorcycle shots.

With cars to a lesser effect....

..and they should be freshly painted before each race so they look nice.



Btw, white kerbs are a nightmare for light if it's really sunny..

Andrew

[Mac Lark]

Originally posted by Shiftin
Not only that, but is there a history/idea to/behind it?

Adelaide, in the 90's, weren't the kerb stones yellow and red/purple? (this is out of my memory)...

In 1995, the last year of F1 Adeliade the kerbs were yellow/red and navy blue - the colours of South Australia and/or Adelaide.

Anyway, I know the Adelaide Crows Aussie Rules team plays in those colours.

[Rob G]

This is from the graphics used for the starting grid in the '89 FIA F1WC Annual:

Rio - red/white (dunno where I got the idea it was green & gold)
Imola - red/white
Monaco - red/white
Mexico City - green/white/red/white
Phoenix - yellow/white (although no photographic evidence of kerbs there)
Montreal - red/white
Paul Ricard - blue/yellow/red
Silverstone - red/yellow (not sure where they came up with this since the photos in the book show blue/white!)
Hockenheim - red/white/blue/white
Hungaroring - red/white
Spa - red/white
Monza - red/white
Estoril - red/pale blue
Jerez - blue/white
Suzuka - red/white
Adelaide - blue/white

[William Dale Jr]

These were the combinations used for the Adelaide and Albert Park AGPs:

1985: Green & Gold (Australia's national sporting colours.)
1986-1993: Blue & White (The corporate colours of Foster's, the naming rights sponsor.)
1994-1995: Yellow, Red & Blue (I don't know, but MacLark's explanation sounds right. In the track's new incarnation as a round of the local V8 Supercar championship, the same colours are used.)

1996: Green, White & Black (The corporate colours of Transurban, the naming rights sponsor.)
1997-2002: Red, White & Black (The corporate colours of QANTAS, the naming rights sponsor.)
2003-2005: Blue & White (The corporate colours of Foster's, the naming rights sponsor.)

For the AGP, at least, it seems that it's usually the corporate sponsor of the event that has the final say over the colours of the kerbs, so long as they can come up with a bright/contrasting colourscheme. I don't doubt it's true of other events as well. It would be why the kerbs at Zandvoort, Monza and Imola used to have a distinct 'Marlboro' theme to them. I think that Labatt's even got the company logo on the the kerbs at the Canadian GP one year.

I've always liked the yellow & blue kerbs at Le Mans, but where did that scheme come from? I noticed that for the 24-hour races at Bathurst, Ross Palmer had the kerbs repainted in the same scheme.


Rob G: IIRC, the kerbs at Jacarepagua are currently green & gold, perhaps that's where you got the idea?

[Mac Lark]

Originally posted by William Dale Jr



1994-1995: Yellow, Red & Blue (I don't know, but MacLark's explanation sounds right. In the track's new incarnation as a round of the local V8 Supercar championship, the same colours are used.)



I've always liked the yellow & blue kerbs at Le Mans, but where did that scheme come from? I noticed that for the 24-hour races at Bathurst, Ross Palmer had the kerbs repainted in the same scheme.

Were they yellow/blue/red in 1994 as well?I was there but don't recall. I know they were for 1995 because the sponsor was then something like 'Adelaide SA'.

Regarding Le Mans - I only went there once and bought a marginal looking mid blue and yellow hat with 'Le Mans 24...' on it.

I have since wondered:

a. was that the 'colour' of Le Mans
b. the colour that year (1983) and that the hat colours change from year to year
c. that a lot of hats got left over after a France v Sweden soccer match and they got made into the 1983 'bucket' hat

[Shiftin]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
ALL kerbs should be GREEN !

They should be made to looks just like grass.... in fact, they should BE grass.

In understand where you are coming from, but isn't the purpose of the kerbstone-colors that they can be seen...;)

[Barry Boor]

Yes, but my last message was posted with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

However, there is a serious point here. If race circuits ended where the tarmac stopped, and the grass/trees/walls etc began right there, then drivers would simply HAVE to stay off the kerbs... because there aren't any.

Maybe then the more talented drivers would become more apparent than they are at present.

If we are going to have kerbs, let's HAVE kerbs. 100 mm high!

[Roger Clark]

Originally posted by Barry Boor
Yes, but my last message was posted with tongue firmly planted in cheek.

However, there is a serious point here. If race circuits ended where the tarmac stopped, and the grass/trees/walls etc began right there, then drivers would simply HAVE to stay off the kerbs... because there aren't any.

Maybe then the more talented drivers would become more apparent than they are at present.

If we are going to have kerbs, let's HAVE kerbs. 100 mm high!

i didn't think you were joking at all. Let's have grass, trees and walls, and while we're at it, drains on the apex, manhole covers in the braking area, adverse camber and bumps everwhere. The best drivers would stand out a mile and the designers would have to learn about suspension again.

[Frank S]

At Holtville Aerodrome International Raceway we painted the "Jaques Jolters" fluorescent pink. The concrete was porous and absorbed color unless first painted glossy white. In common with what I've seen of more modern dragon's-teeth, they always tended to turn black with use.

[Patrick Fletcher]

Is the paint used for kerbs on bike circuits special or just normal road-marking paint.

[William Dale Jr]

I'm not sure about the kerbs, but I know that after Doohan's career-ending crash at Jerez, the governing body looked into ways of giving the white paint a better coefficient of friction. I can't remember what they came up with, but it would make sense that they would use the same technique on the kerbs.

On the red/yellow/blue Adelaide kerbs, it was the 1994 race that was sponsored by the state government - incidentally, they also sponsored the first V8 event at the circuit. EDS sponsored the 1995 F1 race but the kerbs were the same colour from the year before and have been that way ever since, even with Clipsal as the current sponsor the V8 race.

[Shiftin]

Originally posted by Patrick Fletcher
Is the paint used for kerbs on bike circuits special or just normal road-marking paint.

Thats what I was also wondering.

I guess they are based on 'Chloor-rubber' (chloride-rubber?)... I am sorry, but I have no idea how to translate that.

I do know though, "chloor-rubber' based paints are used to maintain the traffic-lights/signs etc. here in Holland..... Reason is that those coatings aren't really sensitive to sanding/greas/fat etc.

There is 'always' a good intercoat- suture/stich (?)

It's obvious they are ****in poisonous though.... Like all good things........;)

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Roger Clark

i didn't think you were joking at all. Let's have grass, trees and walls, and while we're at it, drains on the apex, manhole covers in the braking area, adverse camber and bumps everwhere. The best drivers would stand out a mile and the designers would have to learn about suspension again.

And we can have lists of "Best Drivers at driving over Manhole Covers" or "Top Ten Adverse Camber Drivers"

[St.Hubbins]

It does seem a combination of two things - corporate sponsors and national/local identity.

But what that doesn't explain is the blue and white at Silverstone. My first thought was that this is the colours of the BRDC, but on examination of their website is seems that (rather unsurprisingly) the BRDC colours are BRG and white. Howerever the BRDC motiff has an image of a car in green, blue and yellow, with the Union Flag depicted and "BRDC" written in red.

Some others off the top of my head: Grands Prix at Brands Hatch fell into the commercial window - red and yellow when the race was sponsored by Shell Oils, black and gold when JPS were the sponsors. Imola used plain white kerbs for a time (maybe it is still like that). Mugello is, or was, red and yellow, surely nothing to do with Shell Oils in this case, although the region of Toscana is represented by a red and white flag. Assen has kerbs in red, white and blue, clearly national colours, although the shade of blue is much lighter than on the Netherlands flag.

On a similar subject, what is the deal with the cyan coloured run-off areas at Paul Ricard? To me it is just an eye sore.

[Carlos Jalife]

Just a quick note.
The mexican GP (at Autòdromo Hermanos Rodriguez in Mexico City) used the green, white and red scheme only in the second period of the F1, 1986-92, not in the original one, 1962-70, when the kerbs were at first some half tyres filled with concrete, and then the piano variety, from 1967 on, which were painted black and white.
Now, sadly, the TV rules mean they must use the red sort of pink so that it shows well on the screen, and white, and they added the idea of signalling with arrows in the red portion, just in case the driver spins and does not know where he is supposed to be going to (either a foreigner or someone who ¡s on his first lap or heavily brain damaged ).
We are still trying to get the red, white and green scheme but TV won't budge. And in Monterrey, at Fundidora, it is the same.

Carlos Jalife

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by Rob Semmeling
Zandvoort had: light blue/yellow and red/white. No idea why.

In 1947 Bira won the Zandvoort Grand Prix, or Grote Prijs van Zandvoort. His Maserati 4CL was painted light blue/yellow (Thailand's international racing colors).

It was introduced around 1983, I believe to celebrate the 35th edition of GP racing at the track.

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by St.Hubbins
Mugello is, or was, red and yellow, surely nothing to do with Shell Oils in this case, although the region of Toscana is represented by a red and white flag.

Is. Ferrari's #1 test track Fiorano is also red and yellow these days. This has nothing to do with a region flag shell we say. ;)

[Arjan de Roos]

Originally posted by D-Type
Compare the shape of the red bit to the nose of the car and you have the answer to why so many kerbs are red and white.

Philip Morris Netherlands has been instrumental in sponsoring the Zandvoort racetrack. During the seventies many Marlboro events have been organized at the track. Giving people free tickets for a racing day at all tobacco stands in the country.
The F3 Marlboro Masters is the foremost but not the only result from this cooperation. The curb design was part of a 70' sponsorship deal!