44 replies to this topic

[bigears]

Today's lensmen are usually fenced in and distant from the action. This is a far cry from the cluster of photographers leaning over the small brick wall at Copse; their lenses may have been short, but they stood tall in the bravey stakes. For instance, there is an image of Jim Clark in which he appears to be singing as he blasts along. In fact, he's cursing snapper Michael Cooper, whose right foot is on the racing line!

Source: MotorSport (April 2004, the 100 Great things about F1 article)

As I pointed it out clearly there, so does anyone have this particular image? I am very interested to see it!

Plus some other examples of photographers right near the racing line or on the apex would be nice too.

Thank you.

[Ruairidh]

Anyone know who those three snappers are? Looks like 1972 and it is interesting to me that of the five cameras there seem to be 3 Leica M's and 2 Nikon F's (I'm guessing about the one on the neck of the middle guy).

[Twin Window]

Hi Ruairidh

Yep, it's 1972 at the Nurburgring's Carousel, with a Ferrari 312B2 passing the intrepid lensmen. On the left is, I believe, Maurice Rowe and on the right is Geoff Goddard, but the chap in the middle I'm not sure about. He looks a little like John Davenport!

I think I'm shortly going to want to kick myself...

[Roger Clark]

The man in the middle is Laurie Morton of MOTOR SPORT. The picture was taken by Nigel Snowdon. It appears in Goddard's book, Track Pass.

[Graham Gauld]

Reference the alleged photo of " Clark ranting at a photographer" I think I know the picture and it was taken by the late Michael Cooper who was a great friend of Jims and I have it on the authority of both Clark and Cooper that what he was really shouting at Cooper was a two word phrase with the first word starting with F and the second word being off !!! If you look closely Clark is actually laughing.

Clark was very good to his photographer friends. If he saw you on a corner he would occasionally slide the car sideways on the next lap to give you a good picture.

I was interested in the remark about short lenses, amply illustrated in the photo of Maurice Rowe and Geoff Goddard. Back then we usually used 135mm as you could stand so close you didn't need anything longer even if such a lens was available at a reasonable price.

Most of us taking pictures relied upon a slight understanding of centrifugal force and inertia which tended to state that if you were on the inside of a corner and a car appeared to be drifting towards you it would actually be drifting away from you. This is why Louis Klementaski and Geoff Goddard in particular, were able to get these superb "head on" shots of cars appearing to come straight at them when in fact the car was drifting to their right. The only thing you looked out for was when two cars were very close and might touch sending one car in your direction.

In my own case the only truly "stupid" photographic position I ever took was standing on top of a straw bale in the apex of the hairpin bend at Kirkistown circuit near Belfast during the Formula 3 Irish Championship race. Whilst standing there, Ken Tyrrell got out of shape in his Cooper 500 and shot between my straw bale and the one next to it. I moved after that.
Around thirty years went by and at a social function I brought up the story with Ken and he paused and said "...so you were the stupid bugger on that straw bale, I only just missed you".

These were happy, uncomplicated, days that will never return because the sheer dynamics of racing cars today and our social culture dictate otherwise.

GG

[eldougo]

;)

Originally posted by Ruairidh
Anyone know who those three snappers are? Looks like 1972 and it is interesting to me that of the five cameras there seem to be 3 Leica M's and 2 Nikon F's (I'm guessing about the one on the neck of the middle guy).

;)

I count 6 cameras-L to R....2 ....1....3. Just imagine that happening today (I think NOT).

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by eldougo
;)
;)

I count 6 cameras-L to R....2 ....1....3. Just imagine that happening today (I think NOT).

Yep, I missed the Nikon F on Geoff Goddard, not sure whether Maurice has another camera or something like a light meter round his neck (highly possible as in 1972 the Leica will likely have been a M4 - possibly an older M3 - but neither had internal metering).

I agree with the reference to today was sat next to the Photographers pit at a Yankees road game last night and the difference in equipment (amount/size) then and now is pretty amazing........

It is hard to tell on Geoff's and Laurie's SLRs but Maurice's and Geoff's Leicas are manual wind single shots without any power winders.....when you know how many professionals rely on a sequence of shots to select the best one and "bracket" exposures (three shots of the same scene to ensure the right exposure) it is a real tribute to those guys skill. Makes me even more appreciative of their pictures.

Thanks Graham, I was wondering if they were 90s or 135s and I really enjoyed the Jimmy and Ken notes and hi Stu, thanks so much for putting names to faces.

[MonzaDriver]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld


These were happy, uncomplicated, days that will never return because the sheer dynamics of racing cars today and our social culture dictate otherwise.

GG

I've never read a so precise and meaningfull sentence about today's situation.
If only we could anything, in order to make those days come back................ even in part.......

Anyway I share my precise opinion with a person close to Jim Clark.

Thank you Graham.

MonzaDriver.

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by MonzaDriver



Thank you Graham.

MonzaDriver.

I'll second that. I still think this forum is great!

[WDH74]

I seem to recall reading that quite a few drivers in the sixties would mug for photographers, at least in practices if not in actual races. There are a pair of photos in a Dan Gurney book (I forget the author ATM) of Dan in the Porsche F1 car. In one, he's all seriousness as he rounds a corner. In the other, he's leaning out the car, looking the wrong direction, sticking his tongue out.

Better yet, there's the photo of Denny Hulme yumping at Flugplatz, and taking the time to give the finger to the photogs as well....

-Wm.

[Roger Clark]

I raised this question here about five years ago. We often hear stories of drivers waving at track-side photographers and indicating a better position. When the photographer had moved he would be treated to a few spectacular slides. The results are the pictures we all know. The car is pointing directly at the photographer, it is sliding at about 20 degrees to the direction of travel, yet it is completely under control. The master driver, right on the limit. Or is it? Classics of motor racing photography or putting on a show for the benefit of the photographer?

[Frank S]

Originally posted by Roger Clark
I raised this question here about five years ago. We often hear stories of drivers waving at track-side photographers and indicating a better position. When the photographer had moved he would be treated to a few spectacular slides. The results are the pictures we all know. The car is pointing directly at the photographer, it is sliding at about 20 degrees to the direction of travel, yet it is completely under control. The master driver, right on the limit. Or is it? Classics of motor racing photography or putting on a show for the benefit of the photographer?

Or scaring the pants off a marshal who had the brass to give him the blue flag while he was within a lap or two of winning the 1960 USGP by nearly a minute? That 20 degees is very close to the view Moss presented to me under the mentioned circumstances.

--
Frank S

[Doug Nye]

Nice to see that familiar shot of great mates reproduced here - Maurice and Geoff were/are particularly close, though as different as chalk and cheese (Maurice v. avuncular, almost interminably cheerful, smiling, smoking his pipe - Geoff often grim faced, remote, short-fused, apparently explosively bad tempered, yet in reality just beneath the surface fantastic fun, encyclopaedic knowledge of jazz and song lyrics, great sense of humour and generous to a fault) and Laurie was always good company, when he could keep his mind above his belt... In this shot he is actually wearing his trademark 'Jackie Stewart' sun-glasses. There's a lovely story about him being so miffed on one Scandinavian trip because his assistant photographer had pulled a simply dazzling young Swedish bird on the ferry that he responded by going off with her mum. (Scurrilous gossip from two related sources, otherwise journalistically unconfirmed - of course... ).

Big difference in the relationship between photographers and drivers then and now, of course, was that in those days they spent VERY much more time together, travelling together and sometimes even sharing the same hotels.

DCN

[Twin Window]

I've had a few memorable moments with my mates when they've been on track at various meetings, but never when I've been wielding a camera!

Normally it would be a case of being given a sign or 'in joke' gesture of the time, but on one occasion (Vegas, 1981) Salazar aimed directly at me the lap after he'd spotted me track (sorry; concrete block) side. I'd read what he was up to as soon he exited the corner the next time round, but the marshals next to me didn't - and they all duly dived for cover, to a man!

[Pedro 917]

Originally posted by bigears
For instance, there is an image of Jim Clark in which he appears to be singing as he blasts along. In fact, he's cursing snapper Michael Cooper, whose right foot is on the racing line!

Must be this picture :


I've found it in a 1972 book called "La Formule 1 moderne" (Modern Formula 1) by José Rosinski (who was in Goodwood last month).
There's no mention of the photographer's name nor year or place but as you've mentioned above, it must be Michael Cooper and I'm sure some of you will know the place too.

[Rob Silver Speed]

Today's lensmen are usually fenced in and distant from the action. This is a far cry from the cluster of photographers leaning over the small brick wall at Copse; their lenses may have been short, but they stood tall in the bravey stakes. For instance, there is an image of Jim Clark in which he appears to be singing as he blasts along. In fact, he's cursing snapper Michael Cooper, whose right foot is on the racing line!

*cough*

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Rob Silver Speed

*cough*

[bigears]

Originally posted by Pedro 917
There's no mention of the photographer's name nor year or place but as you've mentioned above, it must be Michael Cooper and I'm sure some of you will know the place too.

Thank you very much for the scanned image Pedro alongside with interesting stories about the photographers at the Nurburgring featured in the image I posted there.

Rob SS, I am not clear with your post there, I only quoted what MotorSport published there in the magazine about the photographers.

[William Dale Jr]

Originally posted by Pedro 917
There's no mention of the photographer's name nor year or place but as you've mentioned above, it must be Michael Cooper and I'm sure some of you will know the place too. [/B]

Not sure, but it looks a bit like the La Source hairpin at Spa to me.

[Pedro 917]

I've been checking some other books and the picture was indeed taken at Spa, Belgian GP 1965. However, I believe that the photographer was standing on the inside of the Eau Rouge corner (Raidillion). There's a wall on the outside of the La Source hairpin and on the picture, there's grass.

[Otto Grabe]

Originally posted by William Dale Jr


Not sure, but it looks a bit like the La Source hairpin at Spa to me.

Yes, it is Spa in 1965 but IMO, it is Eau Rouge .

[Graham Gauld]

The rapport between drivers and journalists/photographers was close and regarding gestures I remember when David Phipps found this remarkable place for taking photos as the drivers came into the tunnel at Monaco. It was at the time when the railway station was still there and I for one have never been able to work out how he found it. Anyway he took some remarkable shots looking straight down on the cars as they went into the tunnel. You can see the drivers steeling themselves but if you look at the shot he took of Clark you will see that Jim had obviously seen him in his precarious position and is giving him the V sign as he goes into the tunnel !
To show how relatively relaxed things could be back then I had an arrangement with Innes Ireland and Jim that if I had wandered way out on a circuit and wanted a lift back to the paddock - assuming they were in a sports car or a saloon - I would go to the side of the track on their last lap, point and then give the thumbs sign. They would either nod yes or shake their heads, no. When the race finished they would then pull into the side of the road on the slowing down lap and give me a lift back. The two most memorable occasions were at Aintree and Snetterton. At Aintree in the sports car race before the grand prix Innes won with the UDT Lotus 19. I gave him the thumb and he nodded so on the slowing down lap he pulled into the side of the road and I jumped into the tight space beside him. As we set off he shouted and asked if he had broken the lap record. I shouted back that I did not think so as I had not heard it on the commentary. At this Innes shouted " F...", engaged a lower gear and off we went. I remember holding on like grim death as he powered through Melling Crossing back to the paddock. The Snetterton occasion was the famous race early in 1964 when Jim Clark was in a factory Lotus Cortina and racing against Jack Brabham in the hughe Ford Galaxie. In those days you had the old long straight and I was way out at the end of the straight and the rain was coming down like stair rods. The race was sensational with Clark and Brabham swopping for the lead. On the last lap I gave Jim the thumb and he nodded. True enough on the slowing down lap he pulled into the side of the road and threw open the door of the Lotus Cortina. I got in and braced myself with the roll cage and Clark was absolutely bubbling over. " Wasn't that great !" he shouted and we arrived at the Snetterton Esses, "Watch this, he said" and slid the Lotus into the first part on full opposite lock then flicked the steering wheel and slid out the corner on the opposite lock. An amazing performance.
Reference cameras my first Autosport photo was taken in 1952 and I used a camera called a Baldinette made by the Balda company in Germany which had a fixed 50 mm lens. It was only when I changed to Leica that I was able to use a 135mm lens and I stuck with Leica until 1960 when I bought my friend Henry Manney's first ever Canonflex complete with a 200mm Canon lens and I have been with Canon ever since. Today I still use just two lenses. 28mm for paddock shots and one of the fast 35-350mm Canon lenses so at least that hasn't changed.

GG

[Mattthecat]

Damn. You do know how to make one jealous


Great stuff

[WDH74]

Pedro-thanks for scaring up that photo of Clark. I thought that was the one, but wasn't sure.

Graham-that's a wonderful story! Thanks for sharing!

-William

[canon1753]

Graham's story (among others) is the reason that TNF is such a special place. Wow

[Bernd]

Unless I'm mistaken Jim actually signed a big "**** Off" on a copy of Pedro's picture. Can anyone confirm?

[Ivan]

I was always amazed where photographers stood to get a great shot. It took a lot a guts back then.

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by Graham Gauld
The Snetterton occasion was the famous race early in 1964 when Jim Clark was in a factory Lotus Cortina and racing against Jack Brabham in the hughe Ford Galaxie. In those days you had the old long straight and I was way out at the end of the straight and the rain was coming down like stair rods. The race was sensational with Clark and Brabham swopping for the lead.

Thanks Graham, wonderful.
Would you have photos of Snetterton at this time you might like to share with us?

[Graham Gauld]

Andrew

I am afraid that my Canon 35mm scanner refuses to work so at the moment I cannot continue scanning my pictures but will see what can be done. I was at that meeting mainly to record the progress of another young Scottish driver who had his first drive in a Formula 3 car that day. His name was John Young Stewart and the pouring raid did not seem to faze him. (It was the meeting where Graham Hill had his remarkable flying episode in the BRM) Indeed that morning the organisers decided to have a free session for everyone to go out and see what the conditions on the track were really like. Jackie went out with the Cooper Formula 3 car along with some of the Formula 1 drivers. Afterwards I was with Bruce McLaren who inquired about this guy in the Formula 3 car who kept on his tail !
It was this race that really underlined the potential of Stewart. The race started in torrential rain and at the end of the first lap Jackie came past the pits in the lead ...........and then silence........we all looked at each other thinking there had been a huge accident.............then I think it was 14 seconds later the rest of the field rushed by. At that moment another legend was made.

GG

[Andrew Kitson]

Again a terrific story Graham thanks.
My good friend Jack Sears told me that often around this time Jimmy would stay at his house at Ashill near Watton, the Grange where he still lives today. It is only about 15 miles from Snett. Graham would occasionally stay too. A thrill for Jack's young son David as he has told me too. Did you ever visit?

[Graham Gauld]

Andrew,

I never stayed with Jack, I am afraid, and to be honest my trips to Snetterton were rare as it was quite the most difficult circuit to get to from Scotland. I always felt it was easier to go to Brands than to dive Eastwards across country to Snetterton.
I think that Jack Sears and Jim Clark demonstrated that you could be competitive, battle out and win the British Saloon Car Championship without trying to bash everyone else off the circuit. I appreciate the fact that some people think it is great motor racing to see people nerfing people off the road to get past but trying to do it without nerfing people off the road takes the kind of skill that marks a quality racing driver.
My grandson, Finlay Tait, all of four years of age, gets up every morning and watches a BTCC video from years gone bye and knows every car, driver and result. When I was in Scotland recently he told me he had just watched Andrew Reid push John Cleland off the road. When, later that evening I was with John Cleland I told him the story and his indignant reply was ".....what ?....Anthony never pushed me off the road, I was probably pushing him off the road!"

GG

[Andrew Kitson]

Yes it is sad but true that none of the modern BTCC 'stars' seem to be able to overtake unless they push the other car off the road. Disgraceful. The late Will Hoy was probably the exception.
A gentleman in every respect.

Snetterton can still be a nightmare to get to now. The 'northern' route using A17 and A47 is terrible. If only Suffolk C.C would dual the 9 mile section of the A11 between Mildenhall and Thetford, life would be so much easier! The growing city of Norwich has dual carriageway or Motorway access from London, the South and the Midlands, bar this 9 mile stretch. Caravanners on their way to the Norfolk coast or Broads make it the road to hell. Especially when late for a race meeting!

[Pedro 917]

Originally posted by Bernd:

Unless I'm mistaken Jim actually signed a big "**** Off" on a copy of Pedro's picture. Can anyone confirm?

From the book "JIM CLARK, RACING LEGEND" by Eric DYMOCK, page 164 :



The text Clark wrote says : honest, I didn't mean it! With best wishes, Jim Clark.

[Owain Shaw]

Interesting what was said earlier in the thread about drivers pulling stunts for photographers, interesting to me because I was at Silverstone on Friday night and along with my father probably the only person in the entire pre-Woodcote complex (at least to my knowledge). In the final practise session of the day for the CER series I was stood by the fence with my camera and every lap the driver of Porsche 911 #23 would get his car into a nice powerslide plumb in the middle of my frame, whether intentionally serving my photography or not, it was a great spectacle that I was treated to on an almost individual level.

The results:





On the subject of lenses, these were taken with a 90-300mm lens, which still left a little zoom to be desired at Silverstone. I am deeply envious of those who could use a ~50mm lens for trackside photography! I also thank you for your stories,

OS.

[eldougo]

Top spot to get a Picture..
.

Also a good .
Who.
What.
Where.
When.

[Ray Bell]

KB, of course... Mildren Alfa V8 in that narrow timeslot between wings coming into big time use and their banning in May, 1969. KB only took over the car after the Tasman Cup, and he didn't go to Singapore... I'm at a bit of a loss to identify the corner involved.

Japan, perhaps? Though that was in June, wasn't it?

[eldougo]

I forget to state that you where banned from this Quiz Mr Bell...

Japan is Correct. and all the rest as you stated about K.B.

[monoposto]

. . . . wings look like they are designed to generate LIFT . . . .

[Ray Bell]

Don't forget that this car was designed to not need wings...

[Bernd]

Yep that's the 1969 Japanese Grand Prix at Mt Fuji...

[eldougo]

Found a good pic of some of the locals.......SNAPPERS.

.

OK name .
Year
Track
L/R snappers.

[Ray Bell]

Am I banned from this one too?

Chris Snowdon, Rays Berghouse and Simpson, Bill Forsyth on the far right, the one behind him I wasn't sure of but checked and it's Gilbert Rossi and I can't for the life of me remember the guy with the beard in front.

Apart from Bergy, I haven't seen any of those blokes in many years.

[eldougo]

PHILLIP CHRISTENSEN..is the last name missing.

Track and year .???? (to easy).

[Paul Parker]

When working with Mike Cooper on Sixties Motor Racing we had a remarkable choice of Jim Clark pictures to work from, but one stood out for me.

During practice for the 1961 TT at Goodwood Mike asked Jimmy to produce a spectacular slide at the top gear Fordwater (the second quickest part of the track) and Jimmy agreed, using Mike as an aiming point point on the apex for the maximum effect. Unfortunately when Jimmy arrived full tilt in top gear on opposite lock in the unwieldy Zagato Aston 2 VEV with the n/s/r tyre smoking from the acute angles generated believing Mike to be sited at the agreed spot he discovered that Mr. Cooper had moved rather further round the curve well beyond Clark's clipping point. Being Jimmy this was not too much of a problem (not for him at least, but do not try this at home) although he was not overly impressed with Mike afterwards.

Overall though as Graham has so interestingly revealed, the relationship 'twixt drivers and photographers was far more intimate and understanding then than it ever could be now. Mike told me that he lost interest in F1 when attending a Marlboro photo shoot at Paul Ricard in 1973 when a BRM emerged from a giant 'fag' packet. He also recalled that the introduction of sports agents like Mark McCormack et al ended the easy private access to drivers by photographers and associated professional journalists/pundits/observers. For instance a lap around the 'Ring with a top driver pre-practice that used to be free was still possible but now it was going to cost $4000!

Suddenly too it was no longer possible to stand in certain places, and not all of them so dangerous.
This as Graham has noted was partly inevitable due to rising speeds but there is no doubt that the movement and drama captured by relatively short focal length lens' with nothing between car/driver and photographer but air and grass has been lost. Today's 300-400-600mm lens' necessary for on track F1 shots just about everywhere bar Monaco foreshorten everything and lose the sense of pace and movement that makes the pre-1970s images so dramatic, especially when the backdrop is real scenery rather than the post industrial car park architecture that so defines modern racing.

[eldougo]

;)
Oooooo so true this line Paul.

especially when the backdrop is real scenery rather than the post industrial car park architecture that so defines modern racing.