25 replies to this topic

[Pils1989]

Some years ago, my grand-mother asked me if there was a relation between the Packard car company and Hewlett & Packard computing company since they have/had a a swan as a crest/mascot(?).
I've looked around in Google but I guess I'm blind or not using the right key words in the search engine.
Does someone have an answer to this forgotten question?

[Ray Bell]

This looks ominous:

Stanford University classmates Bill Hewlett and Dave Packard founded HP in 1939. The company's first product, built in a Palo Alto garage, was an audio oscillator—an electronic test instrument used by sound engineers. One of HP's first customers was Walt Disney Studios, which purchased eight oscillators to develop and test an innovative sound system for the movie Fantasia.

[cheater2]

As far as I know, HP and the Packard Motor Car Company have no connection.

The car company was started by two brothers, William Doud and James Ward Packard, of Warren, Ohio, in 1902. They founded a prior business, Packard Electric Company in 1890, also in Warren. This company became part of GM in 1932 and I believe still operates today as GM's Delphi Packard Electric division.

[Pils1989]

That's what I thought but what about the bird? I mean the swan:)

[cheater2]

Pils, the Packard radiator mascot, which BTW was first officially used in 1932 (IIRC), is actually labeled a cormorant, which is a type of water bird.

I am unaware of any use of a swan image by HP, though the company does use the SWAN acronym, which stands for ServerNet Wide Area Network.

If HP does use a swan or bird image, can you provide a link to an example?

[Pils1989]

I think I saw that bird on some 80s equipment or.... I don't know! My grand-mother asked me that around 94-96
I'm going to check the corporate website again!

[Pils1989]

I've looked a bit more and not a sight of a single bird on a HP product.... I'm confused!
Sorry about this thread! :

[Ray Bell]

Why sorry? I learned something from it!

[cheater2]

"The only dumb question is the one you didn't ask." 8-)

[dbw]

however.....it seems that research at stanford was done on superchargers for aircraft at high altitudes....faculty of david packard [hp] may have known of this....results may have affected engine design of engines packard [car] built for wartime production...and as we all know , disney had his fingers in everything..[still does]....i'm tellin ya there's a conspiracy here somewhere....

[D-Type]

[Pils1989]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Why sorry? I learned something from it!

I'm just sorry my memory is failing me more and more! I'm not even 30 yet

[Pils1989]

Originally posted by dbw
however.....it seems that research at stanford was done on superchargers for aircraft at high altitudes....faculty of david packard [hp] may have known of this....results may have affected engine design of engines packard [car] built for wartime production...and as we all know , disney had his fingers in everything..[still does]....i'm tellin ya there's a conspiracy here somewhere....

Somehow, I had a feeling someone would post something silly here:)
Between you and me, having a HP PC, their guys should take some dope!

[Arthur Anderson]

Originally posted by Pils1989
Some years ago, my grand-mother asked me if there was a relation between the Packard car company and Hewlett & Packard computing company since they have/had a a swan as a crest/mascot(?).
I've looked around in Google but I guess I'm blind or not using the right key words in the search engine.
Does someone have an answer to this forgotten question?

Packard adopted a comorant (a shore bird much like a pelican) about 1933-34, prior to which they had at least two other radiator mascots--a running female figure "chasing" a wheel (lovingly termed the "Donut Girl", and a sculpture of a very boyish-looking greek goddes "Daphne at the Well", colloquially known as the "sliding boy". The Comorant mascot replaced both of these, and carried on through the 1954 model year.

David Packard, co-founder of Hewlett Packard apparently had no family relationship with the Packard brothers of Warren Ohio. Packard Motor Car Company began out of James Ward Packard's frustration with his 1899 Winton which wasn't all that reliable. When he confronted Alexander Winton about the troubles he had with his Winton, AW reputedly told Packard to go out and build his own car if he thought he could make a better one.

James Packard did exactly that--and in the process of it's development, coined the phrase "Ask the man who owns one!"

Packard Electric Company, the firm founded by James Packard and his brothers, after James left, went on as an independent company until the early 20's, when it was absorbed into General Motors--becoming Packard Electric Division, supplying electrical wiring harnesses to the various GM divisions. GM sold off AC Delco and Packard Electric, which formed Delphi, an independent outside supplier to GM.

Art

[Pils1989]

Thank you, I didn't know about the electric company!
My grand-mother asked me that because les Anciens Etablissements Pilette were also a Packard dealership in Brussels before the war when my grand-father Andre was an apprentice there. I saw two years ago a Packard in the D'Ieteren corporate collection with a small rectangular plate from the original Pilette dealership. Before selling Packards, they had the Hudson & Essex agency. Brand which, as I've read, is related +/- to Packard in the 30s.

Which make me thinks:
I know the website which lists defunct british car manufacturers but is there a data-base somewhere which lists who owns the "rights" of defunct or dormant names? Like Daimler Chrysler owns Maybach, GM owns Packard, Renault owns Gordini, VAG owns NSU but what about Imperia, Amilcar, Talbot-Lago, Alvis, Riley, etc? Let's say I want to buy a particular "name" for a re-birth of a car manufacturer, who's door do I have to knock on?

[Arthur Anderson]

Originally posted by Pils1989
Thank you, I didn't know about the electric company!
My grand-mother asked me that because les Anciens Etablissements Pilette were also a Packard dealership in Brussels before the war when my grand-father Andre was an apprentice there. I saw two years ago a Packard in the D'Ieteren corporate collection with a small rectangular plate from the original Pilette dealership. Before selling Packards, they had the Hudson & Essex agency. Brand which, as I've read, is related +/- to Packard in the 30s.

Pils,

Packard and Hudson (Essex was a marque of Hudson) were never related, beyond the use of 4 wheels. Both companies were fiercely independent, although Hudson merged with Nash (1954), and Packard merged with Studebaker (1955). Both of these companies determined their paths to be as independents, completely misunderstanding the onslaught of the "Big Three", General Motors, Ford and Chrysler which was well underway in the 1930's, and as we now know, completely buried every independent automaker in the US except for Studebaker-Packard, Kaiser-Willys, and American Motors by 1960 (Studebaker folded in the US at the end of 1963, and left the automobile business completely by 1966, although the corporation still exists, now known as Worthington Group).

As for Packard being part of GM, consider that Packard Motor Car Company and Packard Electric Company were always two completely separate entities, James Ward Packard having been a partner with his brothers in Packard Electric prior to his starting the automobile manufacturing company in 1899. Packard Electric Company was originally a maker of fine-quality, high-output electric motors early on, in much the same pattern as Henry Royce, prior to his going into automobile design and production. Packard Electric evolved into an electrical component supplier to the US auto industry, primarily building wiring harnesses--which is why W C Durant bought them and folded Packard Electric into General Motors in the 'teens. By that time, however, of all the legendary luxury carmakers in the US, Packard Motor Car Company was by far and away the premier builder of luxury cars, in fact from about 1915 onward to the Great Depression, Packard often built as many luxury cars as all the rest of the luxury carmakers across the world put together. This until Cadillac passed them by for good in the 1930's.

Art

[Arthur Anderson]

Originally posted by dbw
however.....it seems that research at stanford was done on superchargers for aircraft at high altitudes....faculty of david packard [hp] may have known of this....results may have affected engine design of engines packard [car] built for wartime production...and as we all know , disney had his fingers in everything..[still does]....i'm tellin ya there's a conspiracy here somewhere....

dbw,

Except that Packard did not design the aircraft engine they produced during WW-II. Packard built, under license, the Rolls-Royce Merlin supercharged V12, at the insistence of R-R, even though the US War Department had wanted Ford to build it (Rolls-Royce reportedly balked at that, insisting that Packard be the contractor).

About the only designing that went on at Packard regarding the Merlin was their greatly simplifying the construction of that engine, making it much more readily mass-produced--so much so that the two engines resemble each other only in general appearance, not much, if any, interchangeability there. While Rolls-Royce Merlins powered many different aircraft (Hurricane, Spitfire, Mosquito, Lancaster), the Packard Merlin was used almost exclusively in the P-51 Mustang, along with a limited number of P-40F Warhawks and an even more limited number of P-82 Twin Mustangs.

Art

[Pils1989]

Thank you Arthur! My bad memory and english as my second language aren't helping me!

[ian senior]

Originally posted by Pils1989
Which make me thinks:
I know the website which lists defunct british car manufacturers but is there a data-base somewhere which lists who owns the "rights" of defunct or dormant names? Like Daimler Chrysler owns Maybach, GM owns Packard, Renault owns Gordini, VAG owns NSU but what about Imperia, Amilcar, Talbot-Lago, Alvis, Riley, etc? Let's say I want to buy a particular "name" for a re-birth of a car manufacturer, who's door do I have to knock on?

Many of the old British names, such as Riley and Triumph, are still owned by BMW following their ownership of MG Rover. Someone on the enthusiasts's website www.mg-rover.org may know for certain. Not sure about Alvis - I have a feeling they are still around in some form.

[Pils1989]

Interesting! I would have never guessed about BMW owning Triumph and Riley.
So there isn't a data-base like I wrote about? Something to be done:)

[Arthur Anderson]

Both Packard Electric Division of General Motors, and Packard Motorcar Company were involved in racing in the 1920's though! (just to keep this in the realm of racing nostalgia):

Packard Motorcar Company funded a racing team, made up of Miller-based cars in the mid-20's, built and campaigned by Earl Cooper. These cars had the rather look of a 20's Packard, bearing radiator shells in the shape of the Packard "horse-collar" radiator. I seem to recall seeing one of these cars at the 1st Miller Race Car Reunion at Milwaukee in 1995, an in-progress restoration project.

Packard Electric sponsored Leon Duray's team of front- and rear wheel drive Millers in 1929, under the name "Packard Cable" specials. Those were resplendant in purple, with bright yellow frame rails and wheels. It was in this livery that Duray took the team on a European tour, without much success, selling the cars to Bugatti, who used the engines as inspiration for later GP cars. It was in this livery that the late Griffith Borgeson found the Millers stored at Molsheim, bought the front-drives, and returned them to the US. One was restored as a Packard Cable Spl., the other was sold to the Indianapolis Motor Speedway, where it resides in the Museum, in black with white frame rails & wheels, bearing the number 4, Leon Duray's lap speed record car as it appeared in 1928.

Art

[Pils1989]

Interesting!
Thanks a lot for taking some time to write this or I would have thought, while seeing a "Packard Cable" special, it's a Packard.

Starting this thread was a good idea:)

[oldtimer]

Originally posted by Pils1989


Between you and me, having a HP PC, their guys should take some dope!

Hewlett-Packard had a reputation for building top quality analytical instrumentation in the later decades of the 1900s

[Pils1989]

Originally posted by oldtimer


Hewlett-Packard had a reputation for building top quality analytical instrumentation in the later decades of the 1900s

I don't doubt it but I had/have many problems with HP products like printers several time at home or at work but, indeed, there is worse elsewhere.
It seems there is a trend now about considering consumers as beta-testers.

Anyway, back to cars:)

[ian senior]

Originally posted by Pils1989


IIt seems there is a trend now about considering consumers as beta-testers.

Anyway, back to cars:)

Nothing new in that, as anyone who bought an early NSU Ro80 will tell you!

[HistoricMustang]

Nice information here on the Packard Proving Grounds. Should produce some interesting comments. Nice aerial photograph included near the end. Am amazing at how the layout of surrounding area looks like Indianapolis Motor Speedway (Speedway, Indiana).

Also, great little pull down menu at site on motor speedways. Here is a great example:
http://www.waterwint...?id=1651&type=9

Packard Proving Grounds

http://www.waterwint...e=9&noinfo=true

If photographs do not appear, place a "check" in the box below introduction.

Henry