60 replies to this topic

[Fortymark]

This post by Ryka got me into thinking a little of the reason to kick out Trulli in -04:

IMHO, this driver in public opinion became a victim of his special talent in qualifying. As a qualifier Trulli is not simply 'good' or 'strong' - he's exeptional, outstanding, brilliant... He's able to make miracles. This is his personal talent - like to have absolute ear for music. But in races he 's simply good - strong driver, skillful and quick but not outstanding, not genious. He's able to be consistent, to fight, to get podiums and to win. In fact I believe that in a top-team, having a winning car, adjusted to his specific driving style, and in comfortable environment, Trulli would fight for a championship and even could win it. Not all of F1 champions were genious racers. The majority were not, in fact... But IMHO people are coufused in Trulli by this performance bracket - between good and exeptional. He'is so constantly make miracles in quali, getting 150% from his cars, that people begin to consider his quali results as "normal", without comparing them to the real level of his car. And when Jarno's not able to repeat this in races, they say he's 'poor', 'bad' racer... While he's doing a good, solid job with a car he has.. .

I was really surpriced last year when Trulli was kicked out of Renault. He was doing an great job imo and Renault was batteling with BAR to come second in the WCC. Why did they kick him out and braught in Villeneuve whom had been away and was rusty?

I suspect that Renault gave up the 2004 season and concentrated on the 2005 car.
My question is, was Trulli too fast for Alonso? Renault seems to operate like Ferrari does,
Alonso is for Renault like Schumacher is for Ferrari. They are their golden boy(s) and gets all attension.
Renault knew maybe that they would have a great car/engine in 2005 and they really wanted to win. Flavio knew how to do it, like they did in -94 &-95 with Schumacher.
What would the effect be if Trulli usually qualified ahead of Alonso and raced him?
Last year Trulli had 13 points less than Alonso. In 2003 the gap was 22.
Trulli is forth in the championship now and ahead of Fisichella whom is 57 points behind Fernando..

My question is simple, was Trulli too fast for Alonso (meaning that he was too close to him) or was there some other reason why he was kicked out?

[Julli]

Originally posted by Fortymark
...My question is simple, was Trulli too fast for Alonso (meaning that he was too close to him) or was there some other reason why he was kicked out?

The answer is as simple as is the question. No, Trulli wasn´t too fast for Alonso. Alonso isn't bigger than Renault, so the decision was to get Renault to get more points and to get the imago tougher. Don´t forget, it's all about money and sponsors, if the car doesn´t show on TV then it's bad.

I had a pleasure of talking with an Renault F1 engineer. He said the same as everybody else. Trulli isn't mentally tough enough to last the whole race. He is REALLY exceptional at qual, but he wasn't there for the whole race. The engineer couldn't explain it, but they also thought that JT just faded away during races, for no reason.

Julli

[Speed_A]

I would say that htere was probably some kind of personal, human relationship problems that arose between JT and whoever made the decision (sic!) causing him to be replaced before the end of the season. It doesn't happen very often.

[molive]

I always said Trulli was better than Fisi. I think Jarno is underated because he tends to be very fast on qualies and doesnt have the same in the races, much like webber.

[Earthling]

Fisi is a better all round driver than Trulli.
Its just that Fisi isnt as good in qualifying as can be, and Alonso is.... just look at the previous results of Alonso vs Trulli... Fernando is very good too!

I dont know why Trulli cant do Qualifying laps in the race...... but Fisi is very consistant in races and can overtake much better than Jarno (havent seen him overtake much really).

[karlth]

Originally posted by Earthling
I dont know why Trulli cant do Qualifying laps in the race......

I remember some comments a few years ago from Brundle I think about Trulli suffering in changing conditions. Perhaps when the grip changes on the track due to rubbering and tyre wear his style of driving suffers?

Another point worth mentioning is his Magny-Cours brainfade last year. An indication of not being totally focused in a race? I mean if you are not totally focused during the race then certainly you are not taking 100% advantage of the car's potential.

[ryka]

Sometimes it seems to me that Jarno now is the most arguable and controversial person in present F1.
My vote - problems with Flavio.

'the decision was to get Renault to get more points...'

BTW, when Trulli was sacked from Renault in 2004, he was still ahead of Alonso in standings, while he didn't get any points after France. Now, driving for Toyota, he's 6 points ahead of Fisi who drives Renault.

[Sakae]

Some of the post-event USGP05 statements JT had made makes me wonder, if he perhaps let himslef also go at the wrong people and wrong moment while with Renault; an act which actually facilitated his exit at the end.

[HBoss]

I don't know, I wish I did.
Judging by this years results, Fisichela doesn't seem any better than Trulli.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by karlth


I remember some comments a few years ago from Brundle I think about Trulli suffering in changing conditions. Perhaps when the grip changes on the track due to rubbering and tyre wear his style of driving suffers?

Another point worth mentioning is his Magny-Cours brainfade last year. An indication of not being totally focused in a race? I mean if you are not totally focused during the race then certainly you are not taking 100% advantage of the car's potential.

Might be the most overrated mistake in F1. We often see guys making errors, often leading to overtakes.

[magicalonso]

We all say Jarno is the best guy in qualifying. Alonso was 8-8 and 7-8 against him- pretty much equal if u ask me. If you consider that Alonso was much more consistent in the race the answer is a clear NO.

[role]

Originally posted by ryka
Sometimes it seems to me that Jarno now is the most arguable and controversial person in present F1.
My vote - problems with Flavio.

'the decision was to get Renault to get more points...'

BTW, when Trulli was sacked from Renault in 2004, he was still ahead of Alonso in standings, while he didn't get any points after France. Now, driving for Toyota, he's 6 points ahead of Fisi who drives Renault.

He had an accident at Silverstone the following week and he lacked race pace on a tricky car to handle. Alonso had to push to be able to score points and that is why he went off in Monza while Trulli was cruising on... p12?

Trulli was on Alonso race pace at Monaco and Barcelona, that was about it. Not much to be proud of to be honest.

Fisi is being plagued with problems. When he has had a good car he has done nicely pace wise. He has been nowhere in almost every race in qualifying though, probably problems to adapt to the car and the focus on the team being turned to the tittle contender.

[ryka]

Originally posted by MiPe
Some of the post-event USGP05 statements JT had made makes me wonder, if he perhaps let himslef also go at the wrong people and wrong moment while with Renault; an act which actually facilitated his exit at the end.

What do you mean? Explain, pls, this is interesting.

[PhilKerr]

He wouldn't sign a management contract with Flavio so was dumped that's my take on it

Relations between Trulli and Briatore deterioated to the point where for the sake of team harmony Trulli or Flav had to go

[Sakae]

Originally posted by ryka


What do you mean? Explain, pls, this is interesting.

Sorry to pour cold water on this, but it isn't as interesting as it sounds. It was only recently when I had the opportunity to hear Jarno "speak up", especially regarding track safety, characterisation of other drivers, and so on. It was at that point when I have realised that the guy is fully able to let himself go, facts of the case notwithsanding. Implications are, that if he can do that once, probably he has done it before. PR people need someone who is fearless on a race track, popular with media and fans, wins some races, photographs well, and keep his trapp shut.

JT probably falls out of that category of candidates.

[Ayrton-No.1]

Yeah, Jarno was too quick for Alonso, that's for sure. Plenty of factors played into Jarno being dropped by Renault, though.

Jarno unwilling to extend a contract with Flav under those conditions offered.
At the time Jarno started to negotiate his new contract (prior to Monaco GP), he was in a good position within Renault; leading his teammate in the points, winning his first GP, simply being better than highly rated Falonso. He expected fair offer. What he got was being number two and support his (slower) teammate in the fight for the 2005 WDC, plus a chunk of his salary would go to Flav's pocket (obviously). No wonder JT refused to talk with Flav after USGP; quote: 'there's nothing to talk about with him (Flav) anymore.'
Flav sensed he is in big trouble, because one of his superstar drivers had been losing value by being outperformed by a driver who will no longer be with HIM! So he decided to bury Jarno alive and to bring back all the lost glory for his 'goldenboy' Falonso. From Canada onwards Jarno was getting inferior treatment, which led to inevitable split with the team after Monza. Flav and Faure tried to use the events in Magny Cours to justify their position towards Jarno, but Jarno with his smart announcement during Hockenheim GP weekend that he is to leave Renault for Toyota showed everybody where the true lies...that Jarno left Renault, not the other way round

Faure said after Fisichella had been announced as their 05 driver that the future will tell whether we did a good or bad decision. I think it is a no-brainer to answer this one;
Jarno's results this season clearly show who is better ;)

[Spunout]

Trulli fired for being too fast??? Highly unlikely.

[skittt]

Trulli was too quick, would have hurt FA....

[Fortymark]

Originally posted by Spunout
Trulli fired for being too fast??? Highly unlikely.

If Trulli raced and qualified like he did in 2004 this year, that would have meant that Alonso didn´t
just had to fight with Kimi but with his teammate also.
Maybe Renault didn´t want that rivalty inside the team.
Fisichella that came new wouldn´t notice an switch in support.

If we look at race pace, is Fisichellas race pace that superior that he can overcome an lesser qualifying position compaired to Trulli? I don´t think so.

IMO if Renault had the goal to win the WDC they did the absolute right decision.

[Pilla]

Everyone had a simple falling out.

[Earthling]

I still dont think Fisichella should be judged by this years performance.... atleast for the races where he had no trouble, mainly due to him having to qualify in the early stages, and for him being new to the team/car. Opposite reason why Kimi for instance has had to qualify early and would get excellent results, he's more confident in the car + he takes more of a risk than Fisi does in Qualifying.

[Pep]

Trulli was on qualifying pace with Alonso, so he wasn't "too quick" for him. Sometimes Trulli was ahead of Alonso, sometimes he was behind. Pretty even.

Trulli's race pace however was too slow for Alonso. When Trulli had a good day in 2003 or 2004 he could manage to match Alonso's pace. But in his usual or normal days Trulli's pace was way slower than Alonso's. Even so sometimes Trulli could use his good grid position and finish in front of Alonso, but that didn't happen often.

Renault mainly decided to hire Fisi to find somebody that didn't fade away during races.

[LePatron]

Trulli too fast for Alonso?? That's the funniest thing I've ever heard

Alonso is arguably the fastest driver currently in F1 including super Kimi. Drawing conclusions about his abilities based on last year is the equivalent on saying that Hiedfeld is superior to Kimi based on the 2001 season.

On topic I feel that Trulli was dumped because of a clash of personalities with management.

[Alexandros]

I've said this in the past but I don't mind writting it again. I've been monitoring Trulli carefully ever since he came in F1. From everything I have seen, read, heard, experienced or sensed I have made the following assessment:

-Trulli was and is the fastest one-lap guy for many years.

-This speed cannot be carried fully in a race - but this doesn't mean he's slow or something. Due to good q position he's indeed hurt by the psychology of "unfullfilled promise". MS & Alonso are kind of the opposite (not a stunner in Q, but psychologically better in races).

Most people are unable to explain why Trulli is unable to keep race pace to the same level. They believe it's a brain fade - and I believe the truth is partially close to this.

If one examined why Trulli does stunner laps, what would he see? Ideal racing lines, ideal upshifts/downshifts/braking, smooth steering, as-early-as-possible acceleration with partial throttle and full throttle with steering wheel straight (now he's a bit earlier on full as there's TC on) - things like that. These things are absolutely mental and have nothing to do with balls-out driving, hence the incredibly low error rate for such enormously fast laps - when was the last time Trulli did a mistake in a Q lap?. It simply has little to do with "risk-taking" as other drivers do (for example "let's steer the car with a bit more through here - maybe my grip will keep me or I'll control the slide"). And while for other drivers risk-taking is synonymous with a good Q lap, for Trulli it's something CONSTANT. They have a lot to learn from him, me thinks.

BUT, while the attention needed to complete a Q lap can be easily handled, it's mightily difficult to keep it up for 90 minutes. I can't do it in a sim for even 10 laps. At most I have managed 20. And these not fully focused. Then I started crashing - despite very big familiarisation with the sim. (30.000+ laps or 700+ hours). I could delay my brain fade for a few laps with a lot of practice, but it would simply kick in later.

For this not to happen, Trulli should perhaps be ingesting special minerals or attention/concentration drugs that help keep the focus extracting the speed in the same way. I've experienced positive results with such.

Other drivers tend to use "intuitive" or mechanical driving to go around the track and thus don't bother their mind with thinking ideal lines/braking/acceleration all the time as well as adapting these to new car conditions.

So I believe Trulli either tries the mental approach in the race too and fades after a while (usually his first laps are quite good) due to concentration betraying him (which I think would happen to anyone) or he simply switches his mind to "automatic" mode after a while, producing "normal" times. I don't rate the second version because few people could do so after seeing the time benefits extracted from the mental approach.

Additionally the mental approach would have to handle with car adaptation - which is taking into account how the car becomes different with each passing lap. This is an extra workload that would probably lead to the mind ruling in favor of slightly more conservative driving (two-three tenths) so as to feel comfortable enough to repeat the last cycle of steering/accelerating/braking with an increased degree of confidence.

In efficiency, it seems like the implementation doesn't work as well as say Alonso's or Schumi's (I don't say Raikkonen because he does something different which IMO is a combo) so in the end of the day I think the mental approach might not be ideal. But by compensating through increased grid position he is able to score good points and IMO could even win a championship if he had a good car. After all he was second in this championship until his toyota starting braking down losing him podium places. So..

[BorderReiver]

Did Trulli perform better than Alonso initially in 2004? Yes.

Did something go wrong? Yes.

Was this Renault sabotaging his career to protect Alonso? No, and if you think it was you're an idiot.

Trulli drove superbly for the first half of 2004. He made a gaffe in France and the dynamic between him and his boss apparently changed. He strikes me as a bit of a sensitive performer, only able to produce when he is happy. Trulli stopped producing. Viscious Circle, Trulli out. Perhaps a tad unfair, but there it is.

[v@sh]

I agree with BorderReiver.

Up until Magny-Cours, Trulli had the measure of Alonso both in race and qualifying until his major **** up on the last corner in front all of the Renault employees at their home race. No wonder Flavio was livid. Add to the fact Trulli didn't sign the contract for 2005, things went downhill from there.

We've seen how Flavio reacts to other drivers e.g. telling Fisi to piss off to another team if he keeps throwing tantrums etc. but he never seems to be critical of Alonso. Very much like Schumacher to Ferrari, Alonso to Renault.

Once the problems began, Alonso began pegging back Trulli. It was pretty even by season end, however, I think if Trulli did sign a new contract and didn't fluff up in France he would have finished ahead of Alonso in 2004.

As for Trulli's qualifying performances. Like Webber he is exception in this but when it comes to races they both seem to go slower. However, I think many people don't take into consideration the circumstances and different nature of qualifying and racing, the differing conditions such as the need to maintain tyres, brakes, engine etc. throughout the race as opposed to just over one lap. Some of the teams even (I'm sure more teams would) up the rev limit during qualifying as well just to get those extra tenths. I remember Brundle explaining why Trulli may not be able retain that qualifying pace, but I haven't heard any explaination for Webber except that during qualifying runs, he takes more risks as opposed to when racing. This was gathered from the telemetry in F1Racing Magazine when he was at Jaguar. They analysed his qualifying runs, and in some areas he did things that his team-mate wouldn't do.

Hence probably too different reasons why both are exceptional qualifiers.

[Arrow]

Trullis qualifying against Alonso was always boosted by him going out later in the sessions. In 2003,2004 good racers were penalized by being forced to go out early.
Why do people ignore this?

[Henri Greuter]

Originally posted by Fortymark
This post by Ryka got me into thinking a little of the reason to kick out Trulli in -04:


I was really surpriced last year when Trulli was kicked out of Renault. He was doing an great job imo and Renault was batteling with BAR to come second in the WCC. Why did they kick him out and braught in Villeneuve whom had been away and was rusty?

I suspect that Renault gave up the 2004 season and concentrated on the 2005 car.
My question is, was Trulli too fast for Alonso? Renault seems to operate like Ferrari does,
Alonso is for Renault like Schumacher is for Ferrari. They are their golden boy(s) and gets all attension.
Renault knew maybe that they would have a great car/engine in 2005 and they really wanted to win. Flavio knew how to do it, like they did in -94 &-95 with Schumacher.
What would the effect be if Trulli usually qualified ahead of Alonso and raced him?
Last year Trulli had 13 points less than Alonso. In 2003 the gap was 22.
Trulli is forth in the championship now and ahead of Fisichella whom is 57 points behind Fernando..

My question is simple, was Trulli too fast for Alonso (meaning that he was too close to him) or was there some other reason why he was kicked out?

I can't answer the question but I'm glad to read that someone else finally dares to write down the comparisons between Flavio selecting first wonderboy MS and preferring him over teammates and now doing it again with Alonso.
Which effectively makes the Renault team behaving similar to what a number of fans accuse Ferrari of for having done the past years.
I'm pretty sure it didn't help Trulli at all and wouldn't surprise me if JVi and Fisi suffered from the same.
Good observation Fortymark.


Henri

[checkonetwo]

i agree with some of the posts here. in my perception the problems were a combination of the following:

1. alonso is flavio´s retirement insurance and was going to be made into a superstar with renault no matter what, thus resulting in briatore´s biased behaviour towards his teamamte, as can also be witnessed this season with fisi. in this department renault can be seen as a similar team as ferrari from now on, pairing schumacher or alonso will devalue any driver.
2. trulli didn´t want to sign another managment contract with flavio.
3. trulli didn´t want to play second fiddle, having gained significant amounts of self cofidence by good performances in both quali and race.
4. france with barrichello, the incident being hyped way out of proportion by briatore himself and others for the world to see.

trulli was at least in the first half of the season simply too quick to leave people with the clear impression that alonso will be the second coming and clearly got in the way of flavio´s plans.

[Orin]

checkonetwo, a perfect summary IMO

Although it's not quite reached Ferrari proportions yet, Renault have clearly adopted a #1 driver policy with Alonso.

[kayemod]

That point is interesting, the Ferrari/Renault comparison. Am I reading too much into this is are there similarities with Trulli, last minute 04 French GP pass by Barrichello, Briatore's reaction, and Trulli seeking pastures new, and Barrichello, last minute Monaco GP pass by Schumacher ,Todt, and Barrichello doing the same? Leaving out the inter team rivalry aspect in the second one, the outcomes seem to be pretty similar.

[doggy]

Originally posted by Alexandros

In efficiency, it seems like the implementation doesn't work as well as say Alonso's or Schumi's (I don't say Raikkonen because he does something different which IMO is a combo) so in the end of the day I think the mental approach might not be ideal. But by compensating through increased grid position he is able to score good points and IMO could even win a championship if he had a good car. After all he was second in this championship until his toyota starting braking down losing him podium places. So.. [/B]

good analysis. i pretty much agree with what you said as this reasoning is the most probable i can think of to explain the phenomena. interestingly, trulli have had some cracking races (Monza '03 and Hungary '05 off the top of my head) that the circumstances (starting from the back, damaged car -- nothing else to lose) apparently caused him to adapt the "intuitive" mode. so i think he is capable of the "shut up and drive" style (as trulli put it himself for the hungary race with a broken diffuser). if he does that more often, coupled with a better car, he would be a championship contender for sure.

[magicalonso]

Originally posted by doggy


good analysis. i pretty much agree with what you said as this reasoning is the most probable i can think of to explain the phenomena. interestingly, trulli have had some cracking races (Monza '03 and Hungary '05 off the top of my head) that the circumstances (starting from the back, damaged car -- nothing else to lose) apparently caused him to adapt the "intuitive" mode.

Correction: At Monza 2003 Trulli retired during the first lap..Which race are you actually thinking of?

[frederik-]

Magicalonso: Suzuka 03?

Generally I think Trulli finally is fulfilling his potential, during the last two seasons he have improved so much. The 03 season was in many ways disappointing, he had some cracking races but also some where he just disappeared during the race.

But from the start of the 04 season we saw a totally new Trulli, being able to match his qualifying pace in the races, Monaco is the best example. I don't have the slightest idea of how he suddenly seemed to fulfil his talent, like I don't understand how he can be SO fast i qualifying and it's not like Kimi who sometimes hits a wonder lap - Trulli does his magic every f#%*ing time!

His driving style is very smooth, consistant and safe. He never makes a crazy mistake a la Sato or a crash out while pushing like Alonso has a tendency to do. For me the Renault 04 line-up was a new Prost vs. Senna line-up. Alonso is always pushing 110% while Trulli is the professor who don’t make a mistakes and wants to control the race and his own pace, which not always means he’s pushing the car to the limit. (The end of Monaco GP 04, Sepang and Bahrain 05)

My question is simple, was Trulli too fast for Alonso (meaning that he was too close to him) or was there some other reason why he was kicked out?

Trulli left Renault because he couldn’t agree on a new contract with Flavio. But I suspect the reason why Flavio didn’t want to meet Trulli’s demands, might be because he could harm his wonder boys fragile image (..value).

After all I don’t feel Trulli lost too much. If Alonso and Trulli raced in the same material this season I have no doubt about the WDC being tight, but that weren’t and option so...

[nude dude]

Trulli was too fast for alonso, but fisi is too, so the diference in preformance between trulli and fisi is that fisi is being screwed by the team.... but, ehhh, trulli was screwed by the team too.... the team couldnt handle trulli being able to fix his cars while driving with one hand, so they had to mmmmm sign fisi or something instead because they alredy knew he could not repair his cars while driving like trulli do.
In fact, the reason trulli is considered slower in races that in quali is because he usually is repairing his car with one hand and driving with the other.
Solution? implant another arm located in right out of his chest and moving the wheel a little to the other side.

thats my conspiracy theory.

in fact alex yoong was also better than alonso, they gave him a toy car, one with pedals instead of engine, so he had to drive it like it was riding a bicycle. Also alonsos car had an invisible wall device that he could use to virtual mount the wall in front of his car in long straights to gain speed just as he was behind another car.

the guy is a cheater and an aimboter.

[Earthling]

lol...aimbot

[chak]

Originally posted by nude dude
Trulli was too fast for alonso, but fisi is too, so the diference in preformance between trulli and fisi is that fisi is being screwed by the team.... but, ehhh, trulli was screwed by the team too.... the team couldnt handle trulli being able to fix his cars while driving with one hand, so they had to mmmmm sign fisi or something instead because they alredy knew he could not repair his cars while driving like trulli do.
In fact, the reason trulli is considered slower in races that in quali is because he usually is repairing his car with one hand and driving with the other.
Solution? implant another arm located in right out of his chest and moving the wheel a little to the other side.

thats my conspiracy theory.

in fact alex yoong was also better than alonso, they gave him a toy car, one with pedals instead of engine, so he had to drive it like it was riding a bicycle. Also alonsos car had an invisible wall device that he could use to virtual mount the wall in front of his car in long straights to gain speed just as he was behind another car.

the guy is a cheater and an aimboter.

AHAHaHAAHa... this wins "Best Quote of the Thread" for sure

Anyhows, I would've loved for Trulli to stay at Renault. That the two of them have such different driving styles yet are the best of friends make it an awesome pair-up. But I seem to remember Briatore saying somewhere that they weren't competitive enough with each other.

The fallout between the two (briatore / trulli) was quite heartbreaking, really. I reckon Trulli could hand Fisi some serious ownage had he driven the R25 this season. Still Toyota is the other team I'm routing for anyway, so at least I have three cars to watch instead of one (there's a joke in here somewhere).

[armonico]

Originally posted by Fortymark


My question is simple, was Trulli too fast for Alonso (meaning that he was too close to him) or was there some other reason why he was kicked out?

Trulli was out of Reault because he overrreacted to his bad races after France 2004 and hinted in the press about his car being sabotaged in some of the last races with Reanult, IIRC.

This Trulli's ill-perception deteriorated his relentionship with the team's manager and engineers to the point of being sacked. There was no another solution.

I can't believe to say this but I agree with my friend Boderreiver' comments

[ryka]

Originally posted by magicalonso

Correction: At Monza 2003 Trulli retired during the first lap..Which race are you actually thinking of?

Monza 2002 and Suzuka 2003 - started from the back of the grid, finished 4th and 5th.

armonico,
yoa are wrong - Trulli began to complain openly about Renault sabotaging his car only after German GP. To that moment his contract with Toyota was agreed already.

[Keir]

Trulli is his own guy !!

..... and that, does not fit well in today's F1 !! Sadly !!

[armonico]

Originally posted by ryka

armonico,
yoa are wrong - Trulli began to complain openly about Renault sabotaging his car only after German GP. To that moment his contract with Toyota was agreed already.

I wasn't wrong then, was I? You confirmed as Germany was his 4th last race with Renault so I recalled properly then.

Anyway, I explained it in more detail in other threads about the same matter. This was only a remainder about my opinion of the sacking that has always been the same.

If Trulli hadn't talked about sabotaging he would have finished all races with Renault, IMO.

[JaviM]

obviously Trulli was sacked because a battle between flavio and him due to his lack of fight during the races (i.e.last corner at france) but anyway,Alonso was far better all the season (both qual & races) and it was a wise decission changing him by Fisichella.

[JarnoRalfToyota]

Renault's loss was Toyota's gain and it wouldn't be surprising if Trulli is once again beating Alonso in the future.

[Fortymark]

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/48703

Trulli claims that his victory at Monaco 'guaranteed a sacking' and that the team did everything they could to drive him out in the second half of 2004 - although he does not blame Briatore.

"There are techniques and tactics a team employ when they want you to leave ," he added. "But now I can say it wasn't Briatore pulling the strings. The decisive blow came from a lower level ."

Hmm

[miniman]

The results of this poll show how asinine most of us are. Even with hindsight, we are blinded to our own preconceptions. If Jarno can't beat Ralf how could he beat Alonso?

Seems to me that there are a lot of posters still too annoyed that Alonso won the championship.

[Mauseri]

Trulli was too quick in qualifying and often blocked Alonso behind him. But I don't think that was the reason. Trulli had signed for Toyota 2005 and there was something Renault didn't like in it.

Trulli is a mystery to me. Usually in last part of season he dissappears completely. In first half he is ok, and often awesome in qualifying.

[baddog]

Originally posted by miniman
The results of this poll show how asinine most of us are. Even with hindsight, we are blinded to our own preconceptions. If Jarno can't beat Ralf how could he beat Alonso?

Seems to me that there are a lot of posters still too annoyed that Alonso won the championship.

The poll would have been even more in trullis favour last year, so really your point is null.

What the comparitive performance last year says about Jarno, Fernando, Ralf, and anyone else is another point.

Shaun

[F1 Tor.]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld


Might be the most overrated mistake in F1. We often see guys making errors, often leading to overtakes.

True. But how many happen 2 corners away from the checkered flag? And very boring corners, I might add. Maybe that was the problem.

[Fortymark]

Originally posted by F1 Tor.


True. But how many happen 2 corners away from the checkered flag? And very boring corners, I might add. Maybe that was the problem.

Yes you are correct. Look at this year when Schumacher did it to Barrichello in Monaco
Ferrari fired Rubens after that silly mistake.

[F1 Tor.]

Originally posted by Fortymark


Yes you are correct. Look at this year when Schumacher did it to Barrichello in Monaco
Ferrari fired Rubens after that silly mistake.

I'm not saying it was justified, just that it probably ate Flavio alive and that was all she wrote. However, if I can use your example, they were two different scenarios. Rubens and Trulli were racing hard for many laps and Rubens caught him napping. As competitors, it was a tough fight and Rubens prevailed. In Monaco, Rubens had Michael behind him for many laps as well but never in a million years thought his teammate would try a move like the one he did. He incorrectly assumed there was this "code" that forbade Michael at giving it a go. I get your point, though.