70 replies to this topic

[alfa1]

Slightly off topic but still jobs related, after reading the interview with Mario Thiessen at grandprix.com, it seems there will be a few jobs needing to be filled at Hinwill as BMW ramp up the staff numbers there.

[McGuire]

Looks like Derrick Walker is hiring.

[McGuire]

The Champ Car World Series just revamped its Formula Atlantic series, and will have a new chassis and engine next year. Actually the chassis is the old Swift 014.a updated to 016a....the engine is a Cosworth-prepared 2.3 liter Ford Duratech, 300 hp.

Anyway, they claim to have reduced costs considerably; chassis, engine, and electronics (Pi) for $180K, season budget target $500K. They say the orders are pouring in, have 30 already. That might be exaggerated but if they've got 20 or 25 so far, things could be rolling along nicely for next season. More teams and new teams = more jobs. The jury is out on how effectively Atlantic drivers advance to Champ Car, but for crew personnel it definitely works.

Also, Grand Am is going great guns in the Daytona Prototype category. There are now between 20 and 30 of them at every race. If I recall the Grand Am website has a message board with a job exhange.

[Ross Stonefeld]

What have they actually done to cut costs? Down to 500k is a huge huge drop and I cant see where all the savings are, unless Kalkoven & Co are subsidising it heavily, which I'm sure they are. The official line on Atlantic cost was always travel and logistics being a big part of it.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
What have they actually done to cut costs? Down to 500k is a huge huge drop and I cant see where all the savings are, unless Kalkoven & Co are subsidising it heavily, which I'm sure they are. The official line on Atlantic cost was always travel and logistics being a big part of it.

I'm skeptical too, but I am inclined to be optimistic and give the series the benefit of the doubt...if for no other reason than for years it was literally impossible to believe a word they said, which is exhausting. And as you say, if Kalkhoven wants the price to be X, he can make it X if he so chooses.

Team budgets are a strange, interesting subject...until recently some Atlantic budgets were in the $1M to $1.5M range, which is totally insane. There are not enough rich daddies who will pay that. Much of this cost was in stuff like trick little pieces and a $1000 per day shock guys etc. Series management has stamped out a lot of it with spec shock rules and so forth.

The new car has not been seen in public yet but I understand they simply went over the present car from end to end and eliminated every costly component they could. A roller now costs $75K they say. This approach has both pros and cons so I guess we will see. In the spec car paradigm development stagnates by definition and they had an underbuilt, overpriced tank to start with in the Swift...wish they had started with the Ralt 41 and stagnated that...still the best Atlantic chassis there is IMO.

The budgets can only be cut so much with the race hardware... at the end of the day you are still going to need n warm bodies, n motel rooms, n plane tickets, etc. Some costs are stupid but unavoidable...for example, there is no reason on earth an Atlantic team needs a big diesel tractor and 54' Featherlite, especially now. A toter home and tagalong will do just fine. But Daddy is going to spend his money with the team with the Big Shiny Stuff, so if you are a team owner in this racket you have to play the game.

[Fat Boy]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
What have they actually done to cut costs? Down to 500k is a huge huge drop and I cant see where all the savings are, unless Kalkoven & Co are subsidising it heavily, which I'm sure they are. The official line on Atlantic cost was always travel and logistics being a big part of it.

The only person that I think Kalkoven is giving money to is Legge, and since she's running PKV colors, well, it's understandable.

Saying $500-600K is code. It means the cost is still going to be $800k-$1M or there abouts for a season. Mac is right, it still takes the same amount of people to make it all happen with the exception of the shock guy, and those prices have gone up.

I don't think the 016 is the 014 just yet. I don't think they've done any design work on the car, yet, so the 016 is really just a phantom. My guess is that to get things done in the time frame that it needs to be done, the 016 will carry over a lot of parts from the 014, which were originally 008 parts. The 014 isn't a bad car, it definitely has its weak points, but it was a massive step forward from the 008. I'd say that the 014 speed-wise was a little faster than the Ralt RT-41, but the Ralt was probably a bit better car to work on. The 014 gearbox was a hell of a lot better than the Ralt box from Staffs. Of course, now they're going to put more power in the car and the gearbox will be a concern again.

The big thing that Atlantics have going for it is the $2M for the series champion. That's huge. In the last few years, series champion has meant damn little for the drivers. It meant that they could drive the hell out of a car, but the opportunities in Champ Car were nill, so they had to move somewhere else to get a job. KK and friends are already giving Champ Car teams big, big chunks of cash. Now they are giving it to the Atlantic Champ and the Atlantic Champ is going to give it to a team. The total net outlay for KK is going to be the same, but it will look much better from the outside and it will reward a good driver. It's really what has needed to happen all along. 2005 has been a real low point in Atlantic. Right now it's televised club racing, and it wasn't that way in any year since the East and West coast got together to make a single series. I think that 2006 will be a banner year for Atlantics........if they have a car!

[Ross Stonefeld]

Indeed, you need only look at the mid-season bulge in GP2 budgets to know racers will always find a way to spend all the money they have and more.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Fat Boy


2005 has been a real low point in Atlantic. Right now it's televised club racing, and it wasn't that way in any year since the East and West coast got together to make a single series.

Indeed. Nearly half the drivers in Toyota Atlantic this year are my age, and that's pretty sad for a professional formula car development series. I wonder about my generation sometimes. There used to be a noble position in this sport. It was called "car owner." Their competition was against other car owners, and there was great pride and enjoyment in putting the best equipment on the grid and then scouting for, developing, and looking after the best young talent they could find to drive it. They found great satisfaction in their role in the sport and they were essential, indispensible to its existence.

But we don't have many of these people anymore. Today we have a bunch of wide-assed baby boomers who still think they can be race drivers when they grow up. They won't ever get out of the car and give some kid a chance. These terminal cases of arrested development will keep wanking and plodding their way around the track until they are 80. It's all about me, baby. Is this the me generation in nutshell or what?

[desmo]

I have no problem with codgers and rich boys driving in a high-level racing series. As long as they're fast, as in as fast or faster than the best young talent and not just joy riding ineptly around there only by the merit of their bank account.

Otherwise it's just amateurish and cheapens whatever series they are in. There are plenty of places in club motorsports where rich old- and young- farts can drive around a racetrack for fun. I have the same problem with F1 teams that are so strapped for cash they hire "pay drivers" who coincidentally almost to a one suck. It's pathetic in "the pinnacle of motorsport" to say the least.

[McGuire]

There have always been ride buyers in F1, always, and more than people choose to believe. This is not a poor man's game. A basketball costs $20; a shifter kart costs $15,000, and that's at the bottom of the ladder. We will always have rich guys, and because life and auto racing are unfair, they will often beat the faster, poorer guys. That is just the way it is. Racing is not a meritocracy. Among other things it is a money-throwing contest.

So a major part of the skill set in this game is the ability to have funding close by, "ride buying" by any other name. It can be your money, daddy's money, or other peoples' money, that's really not the point. Some people like to say that all drivers are "ride-buyers," and there is some truth to that. If he doesn't retire first, at some point Schumacher will be in a car because Schumacher attracts $$$, not because he is quick. As long as people want to see him, he can drive. This is an entertainment business.

As fans we tend to separate drivers into two groups: they are either pure talents who raced their way up from the gutter, or ride-buying wankers. It's nowhere near that simple, and there are a lot more family fortunes and connections at work than folks like to believe or are made public knowledge. Danny Sullivan was a New York City cab driver. Sure he was. In racing we build whole mythologies around that stuff, because the drivers don't want the truth to be known and the fans don't want to know it. Senna came from a very wealthy family, but that doesn't mean he wasn't one of the greatest ever. But if racing were a strict meritocracy and every raw talent had an equal chance, where would he rank?

As a realist I know all this. But as a racer and a fan, I have to insist that, all this said, fat old rich wankers do not belong in Formula Atlantic. They can only make fools of themselves and a joke of the series. If fat old rich wankers can appear halfway competitive in Atlantic, it only shows how far the bar has slipped. Far better for the sport and themselves if they used their chubby wallets and shiny equipment to help the younger, poorer, faster guys along. Or they can go vintage or club racing, no skin off my nose. There was a middle-aged Atlantic driver a few years back with hero cards. No joke.

[Ross Stonefeld]

All hail Carl Russo.

[Ben]

Originally posted by McGuire
As fans we tend to separate drivers into two groups: they are either pure talents who raced their way up from the gutter, or ride-buying wankers. It's nowhere near that simple, and there are a lot more family fortunes and connections at work than folks like to believe or are made public knowledge.

Excellent point. I'd heard that Heinz Harald Frentzen/Credit Swiss was something of a package for Sauber.

Ben

[Ross Stonefeld]

Credit Suisse joined in 01, HHF was only there for Indy 02 and all of 03, Credit Suisse is still there now, and may continue in a reduced role next year. The only driver input they've really had is wanting Neel Jani to have a few runs.

[Supercar]

Hey! Grand-Am appears much healthier than when I checked it earlier this year. So this is where all the racing fun has been migrating recently!

Now I may run into a different problem - too many good choices!;) And, am not sure if I would be able to get over this one, it appears that the Grand-Am website was designed by a Macintosh user.

Philip

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
All hail Carl Russo.

I was thinking of the notorious Tom W.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Supercar
Hey! Grand-Am appears much healthier than when I checked it earlier this year. So this is where all the racing fun has been migrating recently!

Aside from NASCAR the Grand Am is the only series in the USA experiencing real growth. Champ Car is showing some positive steps (hiring Steve Johnson was aces, he is pure class) but at the moment its teams are the weak point. There are 18 cars, six of them operated by the series principals, while several more appear to be squeaking by on life support and minimally-funded drivers. Still, the new Atlantic program bears watching...Champ Car team owners are being encouraged to field Atlantic cars as well, which can create some interesting oppporitunites for team personnel.

I have a great time whenever I am around the Grand Am paddock and people -- most recently at Watkins Glen last week. They have a very positive buzz going. Not only in the DP ranks but in the GT category too... the Pontiac GTO.R is a slick piece (No surprise there I guess; what do you expect from Pratt and Miller) and they will be selling customer cars.

The IRL was on a roll for a while but it looks like they have been kneecapped by the OEMs... where have we seen that before... I really do think IRL was better off under its previous business model, before Honda and Toyota came in and turned everything upside down. The old team business model was sustainable but how do you put the toothpaste back in the tube...

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by McGuire


I was thinking of the notorious Tom W.

Oh the other Atlantic guy who started a CART team?

My comment wasnt directly in response to the hero card aspect, but more your comment that in the old days they were team owners, not team occupiers. The best and really only example of that in the modern age is Russo. Made "a bit" of money, went racing, decided it was better to win than to run around, got a great driver and them, and then kept moving.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld


Oh the other Atlantic guy who started a CART team?

My comment wasnt directly in response to the hero card aspect, but more your comment that in the old days they were team owners, not team occupiers. The best and really only example of that in the modern age is Russo. Made "a bit" of money, went racing, decided it was better to win than to run around, got a great driver and them, and then kept moving.

Yep, Russo is a good guy...and might be nearly as loaded as KK. I have been impressed with the way he put his team together, from Jeremy Dale on down.

[Supercar]

Originally posted by McGuire
I have a great time whenever I am around the Grand Am paddock and people -- most recently at Watkins Glen last week. They have a very positive buzz going. Not only in the DP ranks but in the GT category too... the Pontiac GTO.R is a slick piece (No surprise there I guess; what do you expect from Pratt and Miller) and they will be selling customer cars.

I am printing resumes and going to Mid-Ohio tomorrow. Let me see for myself!

Philip

[Lukin]

http://www.grandamer...d.asp#crewBoard

Looks like a few oppurtunities.

[Supercar]

Originally posted by Lukin
http://www.grandamer...d.asp#crewBoard

Looks like a few oppurtunities.

Yes, I am working on that, thank you. Next year looks better than ever.

"Salaries are commiserate with experience and ability."