76 replies to this topic

[A Wheel Nut]

http://www.autosport...px?id=46234&s=5

While never a true die hard fan of Mika Hakkinen, I've always had great respect for him. It was clear to see that he and Schumacher shared a mutual respect of one another and I think both enjoyed their on track battles.

If Schumacher is the greatest, Hakkinen is right up there, on Schumacher's tail. It hasn't been the same since Hakkinen left. Raikkonen is quite a strong competitor and has in some way filled the void left by Hakkinen. Alonso is .. well I don't want to start a flame war so I'll keep my thoughts on Alonso to myself.

What do they say when a peer acknowledges your achievements?

"I doubt anyone will be able to repeat what [Schumacher] has done". - Mika Hakkinen 07/08/2005

[Naushad78]

Originally posted by A Wheel Nut
http://www.autosport...px?id=46234&s=5

While never a true die hard fan of Mika Hakkinen, I've always had great respect for him. It was clear to see that he and Schumacher shared a mutual respect of one another and I think both enjoyed their on track battles.

If Schumacher is the greatest, Hakkinen is right up there, on Schumacher's tail. It hasn't been the same since Hakkinen left. Raikkonen is quite a strong competitor and has in some way filled the void left by Hakkinen. Alonso is .. well I don't want to start a flame war so I'll keep my thoughts on Alonso to myself.

What do they say when a peer acknowledges your achievements?

"I doubt anyone will be able to repeat what [Schumacher] has done". - Mika Hakkinen 07/08/2005

With all due respect, if indeed MS was the greatest, then Mika doesn't come very close at all. If indeed he does, then so does JV and to a lesser extent DH.

The only year that Mika ever drove on a level which put Michael in doubt was 2000 and for all you know, had MS not suffered the mid-season drought(for no fault of his), Mika wouldn't even have been close. But to be fair, Mika suffered a bit of his own bad luck earlier on that year. Anyway, my point is that it took Mika 2WDCs and a fantastic car to develop as a driver so that he were able to challenge Mickey in 2000 in one of the best title battles that we've seen.
Mika in 98 was probably as good/bad(whichever you want) as JV in 97. He struggled to win in a car that should've wrapped up the title by race 5, if you know what I mean. And in 99, he even had Heinz and his 50varieties pushing him all the way. The only year he truly distinguished himself was 00.

Therefore it is quite possible that even JV and to a lesser extent DH could've benefitted from a similar situation.

The reason why most MS do not knock Mika the way they do JV, or Hill is because of the way Mika conducted himself, on and off the track, and THAT his filtered and somehow got twisted into 'mika was almost as good as Michael'.

[TailG]

Is the thread title an actual, direct quote from the article?

I mean if he's talking about the achievements of MS, then he's pretty much bang on as there's a very small chance either KR or FA being able to become 7-time DWC.

Whether he's talking about the performances this year, well then we can argue about that...

[RDM]

Originally posted by TailG
Is the thread title an actual, direct quote from the article?

Why not treat yourself to a subscription, and find out for yourself?

[Jason]

Isn't it a bit self-serving for Hakkinen to say that "Michael Schumacher is the greatest" given that his greatest achievements were against Michael and not Raikkonen or Alonso?

[TailG]

Originally posted by RDM

Why not treat yourself to a subscription, and find out for yourself?

I get my F1 news from free sites thank you.

A yes or no answer will suffice.

[Weber]

Originally posted by Naushad78

He struggled to win in a car that should've wrapped up the title by race 5, if you know what I mean. And in 99, he even had Heinz and his 50varieties pushing him all the way..

Like it has always been, it always will be so easy to drop the reliability issues out of the equation, whenever it supports the disgruntled fanboy fantasies of whatever kind.

I'll bet $1000 that you're in the following years, without a doubt, one of those touting "Alonso's great WDC win over Raikkonen, definitely without the best car on the grid".

[RDM]

Originally posted by TailG


I get my F1 news from free sites thank you.

A yes or no answer will suffice.

I guess, for the sake of a few dollars/pounds/whatever you will have to remain patient.

[Frans]

And so every person on this planet has HIS OWN personal OPINION.

Congrats Mika, but I won't believe ya on this one, .... Hahaha, funny one, that's 4 sure.

[swaction]

Originally posted by A Wheel Nut
http://www.autosport...px?id=46234&s=5

"I doubt anyone will be able to repeat what [Schumacher] has done". - Mika Hakkinen 07/08/2005

I doubt we will see somone equal The Schu's achievements this lifetime - unless of course the sport is a chang'n and single world titles are the thing of the past... (but I hope not).

Eventually there will be someone else as gifted as The Chin and break his records - until then, to The Schu - to Mika for telling it like it is..

[SeanValen]

The 1998-2000 seasons, Mika vs Michael
Was a awesome spectacle for formula one to end the 20th century with and start the 21st century with, no traction control, the last great epic era at this time, shortely after, f1 went to stupid rule change era-2003 post

When I watched Japan 2000 in the morning, little did I know, that this type of race to contend championships with would come into little supply in the years to follow, was the great way for ferrari and michael to win against a great competitor and team at the time, mclaren and mika, seasons like that, you kinda dream will happen again, but it's never quite the same, but remains a high point that was 6 seasons ago, amazing how much f1 continued to change since then.

[dde]

Originally posted by SeanValen
The 1998-2000 seasons, Mika vs Michael
Was a awesome spectacle for formula one to end the 20th century with and start the 21st century with, no traction control, the last great epic era at this time, shortely after, f1 went to stupid rule change era-2003 post

When I watched Japan 2000 in the morning, little did I know, that this type of race to contend championships with would come into little supply in the years to follow, was the great way for ferrari and michael to win against a great competitor and team at the time, mclaren and mika, seasons like that, you kinda dream will happen again, but it's never quite the same, but remains a high point that was 6 seasons ago, amazing how much f1 continued to change since then.

Yeah, yeah, Mika was good, however don't be mistaken : if there has been great battles between them, it is mainly because both cars (especially in 2000) were at a respective level that made the packages MS-Ferrari and MH-McLaren very close.

Hakkinen would have done nothing in 2001 (he did nothing effectively) 2002 or 2004. In 2003 he would have done like Kimi, who is approximatively at Hakkinen's highest level.

[speedy]

Am I mistaken or is this thread about Mika's comment on MS....still it seems to have turned into a Mika bashing contest, how bad he actually was.... :yawn:

[SennasCat]

I'm not responding to Mika's comments. I'm responding to the Mika bashing. If anyone was taking notice about five years ago, Mika is the one, along with Schumi who was pulling away hammer and tongs from their teammates at > 0.5 seconds a lap. At Suzuka. With a driver's title on the line. Watch, listen, observe. It mightn't be as much fun as bashing but you can learn more than fanboyism. Also remember he fought back from a near-fatal crash. But don't bend the facts to fit the story.

[Teez]

I think that most bashers on this thread haven't really got a problem with Hakkinen. Mika is being ridiculed solely because he committed a great crime in the eyes of the bashers: he praised Michael Schumacher. So Mika fans should take these posts with a grain of salt.

[kayemod]

Please don't accuse me of fanboyism, but Nigel Roebuck has said more than once that he considers Mika Hakkinen to be the out and out fastest over one lap he can ever remember, and quite often over an entire race. Mika is out of it all now, and enjoying semi-retirement. He's pretty close to both Ron Dennis and Kimi, so in the context of this topic, I think we should all ask ourselves just how serious he was when he gave that quote. Certainly I don't think he's ever been particularly friendly with MS, and I doubt if he's in the fan club. As far as 'neither Alonso or Raikkonen come close' is concerned, I'd say it's a bit early in their carreers for judgements like that.

I'll admit to being a Mika fan, but am quite content to let his record make the points for me.

[miniman]

Mika, the most principled driver on and off the track, in retirement too.

[A Wheel Nut]

Originally posted by Steve Williams
I'm not responding to Mika's comments. I'm responding to the Mika bashing. If anyone was taking notice about five years ago, Mika is the one, along with Schumi who was pulling away hammer and tongs from their teammates at > 0.5 seconds a lap. At Suzuka. With a driver's title on the line.

I never get tired of watching that weekend.

[kismet]

Heh, it's pretty amazing how an ex-F1 driver can state the bleeding obvious and people still get their knickers in a twist. The Earth would probably crash from its orbit if someone ever said anything more than slightly controversial.

[AD]

Mika Hakkinen: "Neither Alonso nor Raikkonen come close: Michael is the greatest"

In other news Mika says that they sky is blue and that the earth is green

[RDM]

I say the folowling in context of being a self-declared Schumacher fan...

Of course Mika is going to say M$ is the greatest, whether its true or not. If Mika were to say "actually, Schuamcher's really a bit ****", it would denegrate both his victories and failures against him.

Very much like Irvine claiming he (Irvine) was the 2nd best driver on the planet ("Michael is the best"), it serves everybody's self-interest to claim that's the case, whether he beat you or you beat him from time to time.

[jimm]

Originally posted by dde


Yeah, yeah, Mika was good, however don't be mistaken : if there has been great battles between them, it is mainly because both cars (especially in 2000) were at a respective level that made the packages MS-Ferrari and MH-McLaren very close.

Hakkinen would have done nothing in 2001 (he did nothing effectively) 2002 or 2004. In 2003 he would have done like Kimi, who is approximatively at Hakkinen's highest level.

Nothing in 2001??? Mika had MS beat in a car that was not as good at Spain and the car broke. Really, Mika had several races that year that had the car held together, would have put him in contention for the WDC. The car just kept breaking. THat helped Mika loose motivation IMO>

I know this is a waste of time as you think MS is the only person that can actually drive an F1 car.

A question that I always have for over the top MS fans like yourself is that if everyone else sucks then what has MS accomplished??? Nothing. Everytime he does not win he fails because everyone else sucks. If does win then he is doing the expected. MS being able to win over another driver that has the talent to beat him makes it an accomplishment.

Really....The things that make drivers great are WHO they beat. Prost and Senna were great because they had each other to race. Same with other sports. I have written this before...Both Agassi and Sampras have said that the matches that they won against each other were the most important because each knew that even if they played their best they might still loose. MS having quality compitition makes him look BETTER not worse. Otherwise, he just looks like he happened to be in F1 when all there was were crappy drivers. It makes everyone look bad, not just the other drivers.

[carbonfibre]

Hakkinen did have some great races in 2001 but he certainly wouldnt have been a threat for Michael in the championship even if the car did held together every race.

[DaleCooper]

Well Hakkinen would know what he's talking about, wouldn't he? I'd go with his opinion over that of anybody here. But more importantly, his opinion MATTERS. Ours does not. Screaming about it won't take away the inferiority complex.



Cooper

[Spunout]

Mika was talking about Schumi´s ACHIEVEMENTS (7 WDC titles etc).

[dde]

Originally posted by jimm

Nothing in 2001??? Mika had MS beat in a car that was not as good at Spain and the car broke.

Well, no.


What happened in Spain, is that MS was controling the race and was simply going to win it. But in the last stint, he had a bad set of tyres and then slowed down by 1.5s, 2s a lap compared to the others stints. Then Hakkinen could pass him and go away, and (almost) win. And anyway, in the first half of the season, the Mclaren and the Ferrari were one the same level. Just look at what DC has done from Australia to Austria. Only after spain, where we were supposed to see, according to Dennis and anti-MS dudes, that Ferrari was cheating with a TC for years, Mclaren dropped down.

Really, Mika had several races that year that had the car held together, would have put him in contention for the WDC. The car just kept breaking. THat helped Mika loose motivation IMO>

The only race where he has beaten MS fair and square is Silverstone : Mclaren's home, plus Schumi had a very conservative strategy.

I know this is a waste of time as you think MS is the only person that can actually drive an F1 car.

Non, I think he drives it better than anyone else, and that Hakkinen does not drive it better than a Raikkonen or an Alonso, who are very good drivers, whose only weakness is to be directly compared to the best driver of all times, who has raised standards of perfection to a level never seen before.

A question that I always have for over the top MS fans like yourself is that if everyone else sucks then what has MS accomplished??? Nothing. Everytime he does not win he fails because everyone else sucks. If does win then he is doing the expected. MS being able to win over another driver that has the talent to beat him makes it an accomplishment.

Really....The things that make drivers great are WHO they beat. Prost and Senna were great because they had each other to race. Same with other sports. I have written this before...Both Agassi and Sampras have said that the matches that they won against each other were the most important because each knew that even if they played their best they might still loose. MS having quality compitition makes him look BETTER not worse. Otherwise, he just looks like he happened to be in F1 when all there was were crappy drivers. It makes everyone look bad, not just the other drivers.

yadiyada. He just made two losing teams win, against drivers that were not as good as Senna or Prost, but who had superior mechanics in 94,95,96,97,98,99,2000 and 2003, and that makes a greater challenge than what Senna has ever accomplished for example.

When MS had superior car, he smashed all the season records, just because he was unbeatable, whoever was or could have been against him. Call it nothing if you like.

[F1 Tor.]

Originally posted by DaleCooper
Well Hakkinen would know what he's talking about, wouldn't he? I'd go with his opinion over that of anybody here. But more importantly, his opinion MATTERS. Ours does not. Screaming about it won't take away the inferiority complex.



Cooper

Totally agree.

[Leyser]

Had Mika gone out and said that Kimi was the next great thing there'd be tons of people praising him as a fair sportsman with a level head and a serious opinion. Instead, because he stated the very unpopular truth he is now being bashed as a driver who is trying to glorify his legacy by stating he lost to the best.

[eoin]

Originally posted by dde



Well, no.


What happened in Spain, is that MS was controling the race and was simply going to win it. But in the last stint, he had a bad set of tyres and then slowed down by 1.5s, 2s a lap compared to the others stints. Then Hakkinen could pass him and go away, and (almost) win. And anyway, in the first half of the season, the Mclaren and the Ferrari were one the same level. Just look at what DC has done from Australia to Austria. Only after spain, where we were supposed to see, according to Dennis and anti-MS dudes, that Ferrari was cheating with a TC for years, Mclaren dropped down.

MS wasn't controlling the race, it was a great battle and MH took him on the last pitstop. Their wasn't alot wrong with the speed of the Mclaren(short a few HP, but the aero was good) it was the reliablity that let them down(surprise surprise). After Barca MH gave up on the WDC, and we rarely saw him giving 100% after that.

[Menace]

Originally posted by kismet
Heh, it's pretty amazing how an ex-F1 driver can state the bleeding obvious and people still get their knickers in a twist. The Earth would probably crash from its orbit if someone ever said anything more than slightly controversial.

[xype]

Mika just said that because it makes him look good...

[ILI]

Originally posted by xype
Mika just said that because it makes him look good...

I don`t understand. Even I agree that MS is greatest ever. I disslike MS but that IMO it is
fact. My opinion is that Senna was greater and MH faster. But that is opinion. And probably
there wont be any who beats MS records in near future.

[MrSlow]

I thought Elvis was the greatest?

There is a difference between "the greatest" and "the best". I doubt Mika consider Schumacher being better then he himself was. But Schumacher have accomplished what no other driver has done before. It is very likely that he will be in the history books until the end of time as the person who won most F1 Championships ever. Long after everyone except a handful of real enthusiasts have forgotten Mika, Kimi, Alonso, Montoya and Zsolt Baumgartner people will still know who Schumacher was. The Trivial Pursuit year 2031 will contain questions about Schumi. He is that big. He is greater than Fangio. He is the greatest driver ever. But ask Mika who is the best driver and you might get another answer.

Elvis is the greatest, but I for one think that Frank Sinatra was better.

[xenna]

Originally posted by MrSlow
I thought Elvis was the greatest?



Elvis is the greatest, but I for one think that Frank Sinatra was better.

Frank Sinatra was better.

[Alonsoid]

isnt it a bit premature to compare alonso and kimi to MS? they have a long way to go and several championships to battle for before such analysis can take place.

[LuckyStrike1]

Halleluja

[DaleCooper]

Originally posted by Alonsoid
isnt it a bit premature to compare alonso and kimi to MS? they have a long way to go and several championships to battle for before such analysis can take place.

Exactly. I think that is what Mika means, you can't compare a young gun to a legend. Give it ten years.


Cooper

[jimm]

Originally posted by dde





yadiyada. He just made two losing teams win, against drivers that were not as good as Senna or Prost, but who had superior mechanics in 94,95,96,97,98,99,2000 and 2003, and that makes a greater challenge than what Senna has ever accomplished for example.

When MS had superior car, he smashed all the season records, just because he was unbeatable, whoever was or could have been against him. Call it nothing if you like.

Actually, it could be argued that both Prost and Senna won the WDC against drivers that were better than the ones that MS faced (well JV, Hill, DC, Alesi and Berger at least) while driving an inferior car. Prost in 86 against Mansell and Piquet (williams-honda better than the Mclaren) and Senna against Mansell in 1991 (the beginning of the Williams-renault dominance).

Add to that they both have done something that MS never has: Beat another WDC to a title while driving the same car (Prost against Senna, Lauda and Rosberg; Senna against Prost). I actually think that is more impressive because even when the cars were not level with the Mclaren or Williams, MS has always had the full resources of the team behind him. Different when the enemy shares all the data, the same car, and knows your strategy (as happened in Maclaren in 1988-89).

Still escapes me how it is impresive that he won against a bunch of chumps. MS driving a Minardi would beat me in a Renault or Mclaren. Doesn't mean it is worth much though.

[DaleCooper]

Originally posted by jimm



Actually, it could be argued that both Prost and Senna won the WDC against drivers that were better than the ones that MS faced (well JV, Hill, DC, Alesi and Berger at least) while driving an inferior car. Prost in 86 against Mansell and Piquet (williams-honda better than the Mclaren) and Senna against Mansell in 1991 (the beginning of the Williams-renault dominance).

Add to that they both have done something that MS never has: Beat another WDC to a title while driving the same car (Prost against Senna, Lauda and Rosberg; Senna against Prost). I actually think that is more impressive because even when the cars were not level with the Mclaren or Williams, MS has always had the full resources of the team behind him. Different when the enemy shares all the data, the same car, and knows your strategy (as happened in Maclaren in 1988-89).

Still escapes me how it is impresive that he won against a bunch of chumps. MS driving a Minardi would beat me in a Renault or Mclaren. Doesn't mean it is worth much though.

Are you trying to change Hakkinen's mind? You're talking to the wrong wall


Cooper

[Jason]

Originally posted by DaleCooper
Well Hakkinen would know what he's talking about, wouldn't he? I'd go with his opinion over that of anybody here. But more importantly, his opinion MATTERS. Ours does not. Screaming about it won't take away the inferiority complex.



Cooper

Doesn't mean Mika can predict the future, now does it. I'm sure prior to Michael Schumacher winning his first WDC there were plenty of informed opinions that had Prost pegged as the greatest and probably thought his win total was out of the reach of any of the young drivers coming up.

[DaleCooper]

Originally posted by Jason

Doesn't mean Mika can predict the future, now does it. I'm sure prior to Michael Schumacher winning his first WDC there were plenty of informed opinions that had Prost pegged as the greatest and probably thought his win total was out of the reach of any of the young drivers coming up.

Oh it has nothing to do with disputing or agreeing with Mika, just that his opinion will be almost universaly more valued than anyone's here. That is why, although you are quite right, you are also quite irrelevant, in the scheme of F1.

Fact is, it was interesting to hear Mika say what he thinks, not what the bb members think. That has been flogged to death like a dead horse many times.


Cooper

[HBoss]

Sure, it seems only natural to say that neither one of them is as great as Schumacher. But, with the long properous careers that lie before them (seemingly), there is no saying they cannot be elevated to all time greatness status by their results and achievements. As of now, I believe they are the pilots on the grid with the most potential and talent and, as long as they drive cars that are good enough, they have what it takes to create a fantastic duel and dominate F1 for years to come.

As for any Hakkinen and Schumacher comparision, I think it seems pointless. While one was obviously better, the other was fantastic and good enough to bring out the absolute best in the other. Both are distinguished champions and have their names in F1 history.

[tom]

2001, mika's car failed while leading the 1st three races!
he trounced mschu at silverstone by half a MINUTE!-and i had $ on him.
set way more fasdtest laps that year than anyone else!
would've won what was a great showdown at barcelona, if the engine held out!
won at indianapolis!

nothing?

[black magic]

whilst its fair to say damon deserved more respect than perhaps he got to suggest he and jacques were in mikas league is just laughable.

to suggest that jacques would ahve done what mika did in 2000 is ludicrous.

at numerous gps those 2 destroyed both the remaining opposition and also their own teammates.

did mika have a very good. sure. so what?

jacques with vastly superior machinery made a meal of his 97 wdc. with the exception of his own teamamte no one had nearly as good machinery whilst for mika and ms they both at times had an advantage but it never lasted the season.

I dont doubt that ms fans have always given mika huge respect and probably the only other driver they really believe capable of mounting a challenge to ms. mika at his peak was every bit as fast as senna, and certainlyansell or prost and piquet.

and that includes kimi and alonso so far.

[tom]

i thought the best race alonso drove was barcelona 2004, he gave schumi a real challenge then, but would mika have been even closer/with schumi?? yes i think he would've................and he wouldn't have felt the need to hold up fingers to count the amount of wins he's got either!! what an arrogant whipper-snapper!

[BuonoBruttoCattivo]

Originally posted by tom
i thought the best race alonso drove was barcelona 2004

2003, and yes, he put in a very MSC-like performance...

[dde]

Originally posted by eoin


MS wasn't controlling the race, it was a great battle and MH took him on the last pitstop. Their wasn't alot wrong with the speed of the Mclaren(short a few HP, but the aero was good) it was the reliablity that let them down(surprise surprise). After Barca MH gave up on the WDC, and we rarely saw him giving 100% after that.

Mika took him cos MS slowed down due to a bad set of tyres :

immediate laps before and after first pit : (lap 23 to 29)
MS : 1:26.029 1:43.937 1:21.151 1:21.799 1:22.226 1:22.818 1:22.369
MH : 1:22.326 1:21.641 1:21.751 1:21.847 1:26.116 1:45.063 1:22.379

MS has 20 laps of fuel, was able to lap at low 1'21''x as you can see.

immediate laps before and after 2nd pit : (l 42 to 52 wher MH is in front)
MS : 1:26.588 1:45.016 1:22.497 1:23.034 1:22.743 1:22.632 1:23.326 1:22.894 1:23.280 1:23.147
MH : 1:22.323 1:22.819 1:22.800 1:21.514 1:22.102 1:21.552 1:21.368 1:25.439 1:43.764 1:21.456

MS has again 20 laps of fuel, only able to lap at high 1'22'x, 1'23

MH passed Schumacher only because MS was 1.5s off his normal pace, and MH went away once ahead without going any faster than in 2nd stint, only MS slowed down.

The Ferrari let MS down before the Mclaren let Mika down. MH victory would have been a technical KO. MS had the pace to control in the first place, as he did 2/3 of the race. Well, in a way you are right, MS was really controlling, if this word seems humiliating to you. It was a great (and usual) battle and MS was going to win it.

I'm not sure Mika gave up after that. Well, he did give up his hopes of title, however compared to DC, he was still performing. Only the Mclaren let him down performance wise, while it had let him down with reliability at the beginning of the season. In qual for example, Mika kept on dominating DC the same way he had done in 99 and 2000, or 96 and 97. No more, no less.

[dde]

Originally posted by tom
2001, mika's car failed while leading the 1st three races!

Australia 2001: pole MS. MS in front, pulling away with already 5s on MH when Mika quits in the race
Malaisia 2001 : MS in pole, MH never in front, and hugely dominated in the rain. Fisnishes 5 or 6.
Brazil 2001 : MS on pole, Mika on 2nd row, can't start

You must be mistaken with 2000. Even there, while being in front when quitting, the race was far from being won for Mika. Check the same configurations of beginnings of races in Imola (3rd race of the season, by the way, and MS win in front of Hakkinen) and Japan to see what was likely to happen in Australia .

For Brazil, MS was on a two stops strategy, passed Mika at the end of lap 1, and pulled away. Given that MH was on 1 stop strategy, everything would have been very tied. It would have been a question of 1 or 2 seconds at MS 2nd pit to see who was going to win. And technically, MS was in front when MH quits.

Man, there were somme great battles in 2000 with constant packages throug the whole race with only one tyres supplier. Great days I miss a lot. Since 2001, things have become pretty much shitty.

[Naushad78]

Originally posted by black magic
whilst its fair to say damon deserved more respect than perhaps he got to suggest he and jacques were in mikas league is just laughable.

to suggest that jacques would ahve done what mika did in 2000 is ludicrous.

jacques with vastly superior machinery made a meal of his 97 wdc. with the exception of his own teamamte no one had nearly as good machinery whilst for mika and ms they both at times had an advantage but it never lasted the season.

Ummm, the 97 Williams also did not hold the advantage throughout the season. At Monza, JV was struggling to hold onto 5th place. The car was also not the class of the field at other races, Hungary, Jerez, Suzuka.

After Newey was put on gardening leave and Renault announced their departure, the Renault spec after Canada was not updated IIRC and the chassis didn't have much modifications in the 2nd half of the season.

It is very sensible to suggest that JV would've done what Mika did in 2000. Give JV, two world championships and he would've been on par if not faster.

Besides, 2000 JV was incredibly quick. And proved without a shadow of a doubt that he had been sitting in the right car, he would've been in contention with Mika and Michael for the title. It is halfway into THIS season that Ken Tyrell said he would pay JV 20mil to drive for him and when Flav put an equivalent offer as BARs for JV to join Renault. There were other accolades showered on JV during 2000. It is rumoured that even RonnyD wanted JV in one of his cars, but I don't buy that.

[m__schumacher]

HUNGARY 2005
peace men