996 replies to this topic

[man]

Still has many question marks IMO...

His strength is that he is fairly clean on track and keeps mistakes to a minimum.

He beat Schumacher for 3 consecutive seasons and in that sense he did ok.

However, Hamilton will provide him with his greatest challenge by far and I just don't see how he could match let alone beat his pal in the same team - unless Hamilton has a 2011 style mental breakdown. I think he will blend into a number 2 role fairly swiftly.

[Lelouch]

So how do we assess Rosberg now?

Clearly not a driver who has caught the public imagination judging by the activity in this thread. I am a fan but there doesn't seem to be many.

He's obviously had the measure of Schumi over 3 seasons and in each season. The margin in 2012 however is pretty small once you account for Michael's woeful reliability. Nevertheless he beat him by practically every measurable way. Yet he's still not getting much love from the F1 fanbase.

He's fast, very fast in quali.
He doesn't make many mistakes
He seems apolitical
He seems to have a 'human side'
He's aggressive when needed but considered when faced with apparent lost causes.

However he seems to become invisible when the going is mediocre. He won this year but then when the car development seemed to stall it appeared to affect his Mojo (who knows what's going on behind closed doors though).

I think he's as good as a Jenson Button or a 2008 model Felipe Massa. I think he'll fight well with Lewis in Quali next year but be overcome on Sundays over the season.

Any opinions?

In all honesty I rate him higher than the good Massa and maybe higher than Button too. He really has several great attributes and he certainly has the speed but frankly his stint with MS didn't help him especially this last year. The problem is that in 3 years he didn't have a chance to establish himself as a top driver but when the car was there he got a 1st and a 2nd place and especially in China he extracted everything from the car (and that's what MS did in Monaco imo). Anyway i think Nico won't win a WDC because of his choices (like staying in Mercedes) and will remain one of the most underrated drivers I have seen. I only rate the top 4 drivers above Nico.

[seahawk]

Has Rosberg not been the No.2 at Mercedes in the last 3 years?

Just the fact that we say, that he did ok by beating Schumachers shows just that. Now reverse the roles. Say Schumacher would have beaten Rosberg and would have scored one win over 3 seasons, would anybody call his results "ok"?.

[Jejking]

@ above: then Schumacher would have been called almost sub-par because of his previous achievements.

@ earlier:

Schumacher beaten by Rosberg? As soon as I saw #62 posting in this thread, I knew it was time again :')

Yes, Rosberg has qualities and yes, he is a very good qualifier but 2012 proved to be a bummer when he simply was outclassed and scored points many times only when Schumacher fell away, except for China. This season was not good for his rating and 2013 will tell a lot.

Edited by Jejking, 07 December 2012 - 10:51.

[LiJu914]

Well i guess, we´ll see in the next years how good he is.
However it would suprise me, if he´ll be able to beat Lewis though.
In 2011 he already wasn´t really better than Schumacher in the races (but also not worse), and this year he lost his advantage in qualifying on top of that.
I can´t imagine that Lewis won´t be better than a +40 year old Schumacher in comparison.
I for myself at least highly doubt, that MSC was near his old best during his comeback and that this was just hidden by his stellar teammate - because i think a prime MSC would´ve shown just way more highlights during that 3 years....even in these cars, he had to drive.

I think he´ll be a bigger threat to Lewis in qualifying than Jenson - and i also think that he copes better with a car, that has not a perfect balance. But that´s it imho.

Edited by LiJu914, 07 December 2012 - 11:16.

[Lamag]

No matter if he beats Lewis Hamilton next year, the people is going to keep the question of "we'll see in the next years how good he is"

[Szoelloe]

So how do we assess Rosberg now?

Clearly not a driver who has caught the public imagination judging by the activity in this thread. I am a fan but there doesn't seem to be many.

He's obviously had the measure of Schumi over 3 seasons and in each season. The margin in 2012 however is pretty small once you account for Michael's woeful reliability. Nevertheless he beat him by practically every measurable way. Yet he's still not getting much love from the F1 fanbase.

He's fast, very fast in quali.
He doesn't make many mistakes
He seems apolitical
He seems to have a 'human side'
He's aggressive when needed but considered when faced with apparent lost causes.

However he seems to become invisible when the going is mediocre. He won this year but then when the car development seemed to stall it appeared to affect his Mojo (who knows what's going on behind closed doors though).

I think he's as good as a Jenson Button or a 2008 model Felipe Massa. I think he'll fight well with Lewis in Quali next year but be overcome on Sundays over the season.

Any opinions?

He is fast, yes, agreed.
Makes no mistakes, at least very few, agreed.
Apolitical? No, I don't agree. He was pretty lame at it though, but there was always an edge in what he said. If anybody is apolitical,that's MS, not NR.
Human side? I don't know what you mean, but that is exactly what I missed in him. He seems too corporate to me. There was not one fully honest-to-god sentence coming from him for three years.
Problem is, he was only showing signs of aggression when MS was with 2 seconds of him, otherwise, he lost himself in traffic more often than not.


Maybe all this could be the result of three years of his promising career in the trash bin. Next season is make or brake for him, and nearly just as much for Mercedes too. The pressure is on, could bring out the best from everybody.

[TurboF1]

Err, obviously Rosberg will have grown as a driver since 2008-09. You also forgot to mention that in 09 he scored 35 points against Nakajima's null.

I still believe Nico will fare better against Lewis than most people suspect he will.

This, I've always rated Rosberg as one of the top drivers, I think it'll be very close between Nico and Lewis, espeically in qualifying. Closer than Jenson managed to get consistently. I think he's a better qualifier than most realize...

[1Devil1]

This, I've always rated Rosberg as one of the top drivers, I think it'll be very close between Nico and Lewis, espeically in qualifying. Closer than Jenson managed to get consistently. I think he's a better qualifier than most realize...

Nobody rate Rosberg as bad qualifier. I think if you ask around a lot of people would put him right behind Vettel and Hamilton. He had some awesome performances in the last years with magnificent laps. I am sure he will give Hamilton a hard time in qualifying but I suspect his race pace is not a match for the Hamster (of course I hope otherwise)

[kpchelsea]

I just went over the Q2 sessions of 2009 between Rosberg and his team mate Nakajima and averaged the gap.

Rosberg was on average only 0.296 faster. Considering Nakajima was a sub standard pay driver, that is very unimpressive, and is about the gap between Hamilton and Button, which puts things into perspective, and indicates he really is not that fast, and Hamilton will outpace him comfortably.

How can you really know how good Nakajima was, he was similar in GP2 to his compatriot Kobayashi and was much better in qualifying to Rosberg's other Williams teammate Alexander Wurz

[Anderis]

How can you really know how good Nakajima was, he was similar in GP2 to his compatriot Kobayashi and was much better in qualifying to Rosberg's other Williams teammate Alexander Wurz

Nakajima's results in GP2 main seriers were miles ahead of Kobayashi's. Nakajima was 5th in his first and only season. Kobayashi was 16th in his first and 16th in his second season.

Kazuki has also won Formula Nippon and was doing very good job in 6 hours of Fuji.

He was not only closer in qualifying to Rosberg than Wurz but even closer than Schumacher in 2011.

He was not capable of delivering good results on a consistent basis, especially in 2009 (2008 was not that bad) but it doesn't mean he is thoroughly poor driver. Moreover, his achievements in other series indicate he may be actually talented driver who just failed to adapt to F1 requirements, like Bourdais.

[olliek88]

Nakajima's results in GP2 main seriers were miles ahead of Kobayashi's. Nakajima was 5th in his first and only season. Kobayashi was 16th in his first and 16th in his second season.

Kazuki has also won Formula Nippon and was doing very good job in 6 hours of Fuji.

He was not only closer in qualifying to Rosberg than Wurz but even closer than Schumacher in 2011.

He was not capable of delivering good results on a consistent basis, especially in 2009 (2008 was not that bad) but it doesn't mean he is thoroughly poor driver. Moreover, his achievements in other series indicate he may be actually talented driver who just failed to adapt to F1 requirements, like Bourdais.

Kazuki has always been remembered harshly, sure he's not going to move the earth with his talent but he was a very capable driver who still wouldn't be out of place on the grid IMO.

[KavB]

Nakajima's 2008 efforts were really impressive I thought. He wasn't amazing in qualifying but he was only 1 point behind Rosberg before Singapore.

Despite Rosberg not having an amazing season, I think he is as good as Button. I think he will challenge Hamilton hard, though I think Rosberg won't come out on top.

[ivand911]

In not so good cars as W01-W03, Nico is much better than Button. And even in McLaren 2012 car he will be better too. He just don't have access to race wining cars usually.

Edited by ivand911, 09 December 2012 - 08:15.

[Jejking]

I'm surprised by how you come to that 'fact'.

[Lamag]

Having Hamilton as a team mate next year, is a great bless for Rosberg and his legacy. He already beat Michael Schumacher for three years and if he could beat Hamilton, then he will be considered as one of the best drivers out there.

[Jejking]

I can't see him beating Hamilton. He's not so spectacular in changing conditions if his car isn't up for it, as the wetter races in 2012 proved.

[Anderis]

I can't see him beating Hamilton. He's not so spectacular in changing conditions if his car isn't up for it, as the wetter races in 2012 proved.

Well, you don't need to excel in changeable conditions in order to beat your team-mate over the season.

Also 2010 proved that Rosberg can be good on wet circuit. 2nd in qualifying in Malaysia (could have been pole if Webber hadn't gambled with intermediates). 3rd in the race in China (lost 2nd to Hamilton in pit stop). Overtook Schumacher when it started to rain in Belgium. Very promising start to the race in Korea (could be a race-win contender there if hadn't been taken out by Webber).

I don't claim he is going to beat Hamilton, but the fact that Nico didn't excel in changeable conditions this year isn't that significant factor here IMO.

[kpchelsea]

Nakajima's results in GP2 main seriers were miles ahead of Kobayashi's. Nakajima was 5th in his first and only season. Kobayashi was 16th in his first and 16th in his second season.

Kazuki has also won Formula Nippon and was doing very good job in 6 hours of Fuji.

He was not only closer in qualifying to Rosberg than Wurz but even closer than Schumacher in 2011.

He was not capable of delivering good results on a consistent basis, especially in 2009 (2008 was not that bad) but it doesn't mean he is thoroughly poor driver. Moreover, his achievements in other series indicate he may be actually talented driver who just failed to adapt to F1 requirements, like Bourdais.

Yes indeed the fact is that Nakajima was a very decent driver and kudos for Rosberg for beating him so convincingly

Having Hamilton as a team mate next year, is a great bless for Rosberg and his legacy. He already beat Michael Schumacher for three years and if he could beat Hamilton, then he will be considered as one of the best drivers out there.

Well it has to be considered that Rosberg must be close to the top drivers to come out on top of Schumacher over the 3 years together, even a 43 year old Schumacher is a very capable driver

[Lamag]

Well it has to be considered that Rosberg must be close to the top drivers to come out on top of Schumacher over the 3 years together, even a 43 year old Schumacher is a very capable driver

Truth, but some many people usually forget it. As I see it, this is a big opportunity for Rosberg to shine as never before.

[kpchelsea]

Truth, but some many people usually forget it. As I see it, this is a big opportunity for Rosberg to shine as never before.

Well it seemed to be a no win situation for Rosberg against Schumacher, when he was beating Schumacher comfortably in 2010 it was either because Schumacher was rusty or over the hill, then when they were quite even this season the criticism was that he couldn't beat an ageing Schumacher

[ivand911]

I'm surprised by how you come to that 'fact'.

Maybe I just rate him higher than Button. For sure MS and Nico didn't have easy time with MGP cars. And I think in the same car they both can beat Button. I wish him the best next year, so he can prove Michael was not bad himself.

Edited by ivand911, 09 December 2012 - 20:53.

[Jejking]

Well, you don't need to excel in changeable conditions in order to beat your team-mate over the season.

Also 2010 proved that Rosberg can be good on wet circuit. 2nd in qualifying in Malaysia (could have been pole if Webber hadn't gambled with intermediates). 3rd in the race in China (lost 2nd to Hamilton in pit stop). Overtook Schumacher when it started to rain in Belgium. Very promising start to the race in Korea (could be a race-win contender there if hadn't been taken out by Webber).

I don't claim he is going to beat Hamilton, but the fact that Nico didn't excel in changeable conditions this year isn't that significant factor here IMO.

That's why I mentioned 2012, but maybe I'm too quick with my conclusions because the car wasn't actually bad but kept dipping the tyres in and outside the operation window randomly afaik. 2010 was good indeed, except for Spa where he overtook Schumacher who already came back strongly and had cooked tyres and no F-duct from the last positions.

[Jejking]

Maybe I just rate him higher than Button. For sure MS and Nico didn't have easy time with MGP cars. And I think in the same car they both can beat Button. I wish him the best next year, so he can prove Michael was not bad himself.;)

Well if the car is perfect Button is very strong, but if the car misbehaves (can't find the balance) he is likely to be behind on performance so you might be right. Keep me posted at the end of the 2013 season, since I don't have any reason to root for F1 anymore

[jrg19]

https://www.youtube....player_embedded

[encircled]

LOL taking on the bulls.

[amppatel]

https://www.youtube....player_embedded

Surely they wouldn't let him do that?!

Do you think it's a double?

[Clatter]

Surely they wouldn't let him do that?!

Do you think it's a double?

Yes.

[Peter Perfect]

Fry bigging-up Hamilton before his arrival - http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104880

It's good that they're pressuring themselves to produce a better car (given this year they need to), but the way I read the article it sounds like they're going to be focussing mostly on Hamilton next year. Not sure how I'd feel if I were Rosberg.

[bub]

There was probably a similar situation when Schumacher arrived. Rosberg handled it fine.

[Clatter]

Fry bigging-up Hamilton before his arrival - http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104880

It's good that they're pressuring themselves to produce a better car (given this year they need to), but the way I read the article it sounds like they're going to be focussing mostly on Hamilton next year. Not sure how I'd feel if I were Rosberg.

You have to laugh at that article. Were they not under any pressure to build a decent car the last 3 years? So MS and NR were not drivers worthy of doing their best for?

[1Devil1]

There was probably a similar situation when Schumacher arrived. Rosberg handled it fine.

There was a high possibility Schumacher lost his mojo due to his age. Hamilton is heading towards his prime. This situation is different and in fact I think the pressure is much higher as in 2010 when Schumacher arrived.

[P123]

You have to laugh at that article. Were they not under any pressure to build a decent car the last 3 years? So MS and NR were not drivers worthy of doing their best for?

Hardly. However you have to look at it from the point of view that they are running out of excuses, and one of them has already fallen on their sword. The pressure is certainly on, and they know it.

[P123]

Fry bigging-up Hamilton before his arrival - http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104880

It's good that they're pressuring themselves to produce a better car (given this year they need to), but the way I read the article it sounds like they're going to be focussing mostly on Hamilton next year. Not sure how I'd feel if I were Rosberg.

Rosberg will be fine. Hamilton is the 'new boy'- that's the story. But your concerns for the current driver and readings of press statements about the new guy are eerily similar to the views of some when JB arrived at McLaren....

[bub]

There was a high possibility Schumacher lost his mojo due to his age. Hamilton is heading towards his prime. This situation is different and in fact I think the pressure is much higher as in 2010 when Schumacher arrived.

Still, Button did fine against Hamilton, Rosberg has been Hamilton's teammate before and has had a teammate who is more high profile than himself in MS so I doubt he's too worried about it, he seems like a level headed guy. Hamilton is expected to come out on top so there's probably more pressure on him.

[Peter Perfect]

Rosberg will be fine. Hamilton is the 'new boy'- that's the story. But your concerns for the current driver and readings of press statements about the new guy are eerily similar to the views of some when JB arrived at McLaren....

I honestly don't remember that. My memories of Button joining were of McLaren saying that they had the two best drivers on the grid:

http://news.bbc.co.u...one/8363892.stm

"It has always been our policy to employ the two very best possible drivers," said McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh.
"In Jenson and Lewis, we feel we not only have the fastest pairing on the 2010 grid but also the two most complete, professional and dedicated drivers in Formula One."

If Fry had said something along those lines I think Rosberg would feel a bit more comfortable. But that's just my personal interpretation of a press release.

[Fatgadget]

The Rosberg Hamilton pairing next year will be interesting if only because the pair grew up together and are firm friends off track I m led to believe! ...There however is no love lost on track given the way they play hardball on it.

[black magic]

I guess spending a few hundred million dollars every year and producing a lemon that became bottom half of the grid year on year isnt really pressure.

no you need a good driver to get everyone motivated.

this team needs to shut up more than any other and actually produce something worthwhile before they should expect any sort of fan base.

they had at least 2 reasonable drivers and had frankly eff all to show for it.

if fangio himself turned up it wouldnt change anything. its not a driver problem

[1Devil1]

I guess spending a few hundred million dollars every year and producing a lemon that became bottom half of the grid year on year isnt really pressure.

no you need a good driver to get everyone motivated.

this team needs to shut up more than any other and actually produce something worthwhile before they should expect any sort of fan base.

they had at least 2 reasonable drivers and had frankly eff all to show for it.

if fangio himself turned up it wouldnt change anything. its not a driver problem

That is the point. In modern f1 you don't have large gapes between the team mates. Even if you think Hamilton will trash Rosberg he will not be faster than 0.2 or 0.3 sec per lap. The tank, shitbox, dog of a car or how ever you want to call it was more than 1.5 off the pace. In the last races of 2012 Hamilton perhaps would have fought for position 9-10 instead of 11-14. First of all you need a good car and than you should think about your drivers. McLaren with their "weak" driver lineup will be stronger than Merc next year that's for sure

[P123]

if fangio himself turned up it wouldnt change anything. its not a driver problem

All of that ignores the fact that they've made changes to the key positions in the technical team. They already know it isn't about drivers. It's almost a case of going back and starting again in terms of car design.

[Szoelloe]

All of that ignores the fact that they've made changes to the key positions in the technical team. They already know it isn't about drivers. It's almost a case of going back and starting again in terms of car design.

well, not almost, IMHO.

[apoka]

Fry bigging-up Hamilton before his arrival - http://www.autosport...t.php/id/104880

"Certainly in my view, Lewis and Fernando Alonso are the two best drivers," he added. "I'd caveat that by saying Sebastian Vettel may well be in that group, but he's always had the best car, and he's got to prove it, in my mind.

I consider the Vettel part rubbish. But more importantly, just discarding Rosberg as potentially also being in that group - or at least close enough to know that the drivers most likely were not the key problem in the past 3 years - is not a good sign in my opinion. It seems that Rosberg has a hard battle ahead of him. It could also be a sign that the team did not really find out why they are not competitive and pin their hopes on changes - in that case a new driver. I hope for equal treatment for Rosberg, but I can also see that Hamilton was quite an investment and Mercedes wants to see value for money.

[Clatter]

When does NR's contract run to?

[jrg19]

End of the this season with options, so id guess till 2014.

[Szoelloe]

End of the this season with options, so id guess till 2014.

2015, AFAIK. I wouldn't give too much thought to what Fry has to say really. If you take a look at the period when he was Honda TP.... It's not his job to comment on driver matters. Saying that, NR has been pretty much neglected since the confirmation of LH's arrival. Puts MS's role into perspective somewhat. NR is in a make-or-brake situation. He is certainly not hte star driver at he team.

[jjcale]

2015, AFAIK. I wouldn't give too much thought to what Fry has to say really. If you take a look at the period when he was Honda TP.... It's not his job to comment on driver matters. Saying that, NR has been pretty much neglected since the confirmation of LH's arrival. Puts MS's role into perspective somewhat. NR is in a make-or-brake situation. He is certainly not hte star driver at he team.

Season hasnt started yet.... his driving will do the talking in '13 - or not.

[Szoelloe]

Season hasnt started yet.... his driving will do the talking in '13 - or not.

Well, that's exactly what I was trying to say,in so many words.