63 replies to this topic

[molive]

Lovely Montreal!

Go Da Matta!

[molive]

FYI, comparison between F1 and CART's pole times at Montreal.

2002
F1: 1min12s836
CART: 1min18s959

2003
F1: 1min15s529
CART: 1min19s665

2004
F1: 1min12s275
CART: 1min19s897

This year things can get very close, and CART may even surpass the slowest F1 car (which, with a tenth of the budget, its not too bad at all).

[DamattaSpeed]

notes:

champcars return to a proper race track for the first time in a long while...

newman/haas driver sebastien bourdais solidified his lead thanks to pt's boneheaded error in denver. oriol servia moved into third place in points standings and still chases first career victory.

rusport driver aj allmendinger ended a streak of dnfs with a podium finish in home track in denver, where teammate justin wilson was taken out in a very scary first lap melee...look for these two to perform very well this weekend, with aj possibly challenging for the victory..

walker/team aussie driver alex tagliani has been on form all season, threatening the front running n/h, forsythe and rusport entries on more than a few occasions. the hometown favorite was gutted in 2003 after just losing out on his first victory. expect him to contend this wekend for the victory.

denver was the first weekend that both forsythe drivers paul tracy and mario dominguez looked to be on pace at the same time in quite a while. super mario made it interesting (as usual) with his receovery from a spin to take second with a superb pass on aj on the final lap. one bad pit stop cost him the victory last year. he should have a good run. pt wil be on form as well, but will he be patient enough to take advantage of his opportunities?

pkv drivers cristiano damatta and jimmy vasser are coming off their worst combined weekend since the start of the season. 5 consecutive dnfs for cris and the portland victory must seem like a decade ago. to finish would be a gratifying result, i imagine. will they have enough for even a top five here? a podium would be a surprising (but welcome) result.

other notables:

young french canadien, andrew ranger races at his home track for the first time in the big leagues. he's anxious to showcase his talent here but first he must get ahead of his trammate, nelson philippe, who has shown him the way the past three races.

timo glock ran extremely well in denver and this weekend he's not at the disadvantage of having to learn the track in the practice sessions while trying to find the setup. rocketsports have improved and timo expects good results. a dark horse for the podium.

finally, the atlantic series wraps up the season this weekend. the champion will receive a ride in the final race in mexico city. look for charles zwolsman to get the one off after clinching the championship here. kasemets will certainly make it interesting, as will katherine legge and antoine bessette. andreas wirth is out after sustaining an injury in road america. other atlantic contenders include david amrtinez and "just al" unser.

should be a fun weekedn of racing.

[red 2]

Hey Molive.....are you living in Montreal now?

I love Canada. I went several times to Canada. Specially last year I went to Toronto, Ottawa, Montreal, Quebec.........20 days........fantastic....december....with a lot of snow.......my son and wife loved.

I have stayed in a litle hotel in Brossard.....near I think Jaques Cartier bridge....is that rigth? May be another bridge......

Congratulations Canadians........Brazil is a very beaultifull country but we don´t have 4 seasons......

[molive]

Originally posted by red 2
Hey Molive.....are you living in Montreal now?

Nope, but I lived there for 3 years. I love the city. many great memories. I'm planning to visit next summer.

[molive]

Originally posted by DamattaSpeed
5 consecutive dnfs for cris and the portland victory must seem like a decade ago. to finish would be a gratifying result, i imagine.

Oh boy, he must be missing the good old NH days. :

[WANG]

It's been a great season for ChampCar already. The schedule has been released for 06, a new chassis is in the works for 2007 and rumours are suggestive that 1 new team (2 cars) and up to 2 teams from the IRL are heading for the series which now appears to finally be moving forward.

Here's a great write up

This actually ought to be a great weekend with the IRL at Sanoma and ChampCar in Montreal!

[WANG]

Originally posted by molive


Oh boy, he must be missing the good old NH days. :

From what I know he may not be missing them much longer ;)

Hint: 3 Car team

Also Forsythe may have a third driver. And did you guys see the chassis orders for the Atlantic Series???

They are up to 30 now with Graham Rahal and a few other big kids in line for a ride. AND it appears that Red Bull may be the series sponsor.

[sblick]

I hope this weekend I can sit down for a good race. My friends keep on ruining my racing weekends. I may have to shut off the phone. Go Timo! Go Justin!
Furthermore I can't wait to see the new chassis. I don't think it will be overly pretty, but if it gives close races I don't care.

[Happs]

Originally posted by molive
FYI, comparison between F1 and CART's pole times at Montreal.

2002
F1: 1min12s836
CART: 1min18s959

2003
F1: 1min15s529
CART: 1min19s665

2004
F1: 1min12s275
CART: 1min19s897

This year things can get very close, and CART may even surpass the slowest F1 car (which, with a tenth of the budget, its not too bad at all).

It will be even closer next year when F1 switches to the V8s. From the comments I've heard from the V8 testers, especially Panis' comments a few days ago, they will be much slower.

I wonder what the time comparisons will look like then.

[WANG]

Wait until 2007 when the chassis are smaller (more nimble). Also don't forget that they can crank up the boost on the Turbo.

[WANG]

I am hoping for a victory from CDM, Ryan Hunter or Allmendinger

[StickShift]

I expect Allmendinger will crash in the last chicane.

[Alaweni]

Originally posted by molive
FYI, comparison between F1 and CART's pole times at Montreal.

2002
F1: 1min12s836
CART: 1min18s959

2003
F1: 1min15s529
CART: 1min19s665

2004
F1: 1min12s275
CART: 1min19s897

This year things can get very close, and CART may even surpass the slowest F1 car (which, with a tenth of the budget, its not too bad at all).

Does Champ Car use fuel in their qual laps? I thought they did a series of flying laps similiar to old F1 quals.

[VresiBerba]

Originally posted by molive
This year things can get very close, and CART may even surpass the slowest F1 car (which, with a tenth of the budget, its not too bad at all).

The difference in speed of the slowest F1 car and the fastest CART car and the tenth of a budget remark is irrelative I'm afraid. The difference in speeds of the two series is not due to budgets at all but rather the different regulations. An F1 team with a tenth of a budget of Minardi's wouldn't even get around to race in F1 at all.

[Slyder]

Originally posted by StickShift
I expect Allmendinger will crash in the last chicane.

I guess due to his latest string of crashes, AJ has finally got an unofficial nickname: AJ Wall-mendinger :

As for the race, lets hope the Wall-mendinger doesn't screw up Bourdais again like he did last year.

[molive]

Originally posted by Alaweni
Does Champ Car use fuel in their qual laps? I thought they did a series of flying laps similiar to old F1 quals.

I'm certain they do.;)

As for the OWRS qualies format, I suggest you go to www.cart.com and check it out.

good one Slyder ..

[DamattaSpeed]

they don't qualify with the same loads they start the race with...

quals sessions 1 ended early due to ranger crash.. Seabass on provisional pole..

Speeds slower thsi year thanks to revisions to track curbing.


S. Bourdais 1 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 1:21.924 119.042 191.579

2 O. Servia 2 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 1:22.010 118.917 191.378 0.086

3 P. Tracy 3 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 1:22.400 118.354 190.472

4 M. Dominguez 7 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 1:22.407 118.344 190.456 0.260 0.007

5 C. da Matta 21 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 1:22.492 118.222 190.259 0.568 0.085

6 J. Vasser 12 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 1:22.559 118.126 190.105 0.635 0.152

7 J. Wilson 9 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 1:22.851 117.710 189.435 0.927 0.012

8 N. Philippe 34 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 1:23.268 117.121 188.488 1.344 0.417

9 T. Glock 8 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 1:23.434 116.888 188.113 1.510 0.015

10 A. Tagliani 15 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 1:23.681 116.543 187.557 1.534 0.247

11 B. Wirdheim 4 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 1:23.720 116.488 187.469 1.320 0.037

12 R. Bremer 19 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 1:24.515 115.393 185.707 2.591 0.795

13 M. Marshall 5 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 1:24.723 115.109 185.250 2.799 0.208

14 R. Lavin 55 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 1:25.049 114.668 184.540 3.125 0.326

15 A. Ranger 27 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 1:25.680 113.824 183.182 1.495 0.568

16 A. Allmendinger 10 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 1:26.100 113.268 182.287 4.176 1.051

17 R. Sperafico 11 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 0.00 0.00

18 R. Hunter-Reay 31 Ford-Cosworth/Lola/Bridgestone 0.00 0.00

[Corners]

Originally posted by molive
FYI, comparison between F1 and CART's pole times at Montreal.

2002
F1: 1min12s836
CART: 1min18s959

2003
F1: 1min15s529
CART: 1min19s665

2004
F1: 1min12s275
CART: 1min19s897

This year things can get very close, and CART may even surpass the slowest F1 car (which, with a tenth of the budget, its not too bad at all).

Your comment is completely out of context, the specification dictates the speed of the cars not the budget. The budget only makes the difference from the front to the back of the grid in that particular category.

[Corners]

Originally posted by Slyder


I guess due to his latest string of crashes, AJ has finally got an unofficial nickname: AJ Wall-mendinger :

As for the race, lets hope the Wall-mendinger doesn't screw up Bourdais again like he did last year.

Give him more credit he is an exciting prospect as shown in many races including the last one, those other street circuits are much harder to concentrate on than Montreal. I expect him to have plenty of time to anticipate that last chicance I also think that if Bourdais doesn't win AJ will.

[molive]

Originally posted by DamattaSpeed
Speeds slower thsi year thanks to revisions to track curbing.

so, pointless to compare...:

As for the budget thing, of course its not a matter of those "who spend more are faster" (even though thats true in F1), but that the on-track fans get almost the same bang for a lot less buck from the teams, iykwim.;)

[molive]

Originally posted by DamattaSpeed
Speeds slower thsi year thanks to revisions to track curbing.

Let me correct that:

6s707 (difference between Seabass provisional pole and Button's pole times) is very impressive, considering the Chassis freeze and all the down-to-earth specs of a Champcar.

[Slyder]

Originally posted by Corners
Give him more credit he is an exciting prospect as shown in many races including the last one, those other street circuits are much harder to concentrate on than Montreal. I expect him to have plenty of time to anticipate that last chicance I also think that if Bourdais doesn't win AJ will.

I give him credit. Hell, I have rooted for him ever since his Barber Dodge days and favored him a lot more than Scott Speed when he entered the Red Bull driver's search.

I'm not denying he has talent, since he does. He just needs to calm down a bit and use his head more often than his gut, and know when to take advantage and when not to.

[ColdHeart]

This is the last year for CC at Montreal. Next year they will be replaced by the IRL which is why the IRL schedule announcement has been held up; Montreal asked that they not announce the race until after the CC event. CC released their '06 schedule showing Montreal but they did not have a contract and won't get one.

[VresiBerba]

Originally posted by molive
6s707 (difference between Seabass provisional pole and Button's pole times) is very impressive, considering the Chassis freeze and all the down-to-earth specs of a Champcar.

But why is that impressive

I can guarantee you that with a tenth of the Newman/Haas budget (a hundredth of the Minardi budget?) you could produce the fastest formula-car in the world. Regulation wise, the car wouldn't be allowed to race though. Not in F1, not in CART.

[Vanquish]

Originally posted by ColdHeart
This is the last year for CC at Montreal. Next year they will be replaced by the IRL which is why the IRL schedule announcement has been held up; Montreal asked that they not announce the race until after the CC event. CC released their '06 schedule showing Montreal but they did not have a contract and won't get one.

Source?

On Wednesday, March 9, 2005

“A lot of things have been said in the press and by people that aren’t necessarily the decision makers in this process,” Legault said. “The most important thing to note is that we have a contract with Champ Car for two more years and after the 2006 race I will sit down with Champ Car and see what else we can do. We currently have Formula 1 and Champ Cars, and we are not looking hosting more than two race weekends per year.”

link

[Corners]

Originally posted by Slyder


I give him credit. Hell, I have rooted for him ever since his Barber Dodge days and favored him a lot more than Scott Speed when he entered the Red Bull driver's search.

I'm not denying he has talent, since he does. He just needs to calm down a bit and use his head more often than his gut, and know when to take advantage and when not to.

OK fair enough, don't worry he'll be fine just very very oversteery driver and inexperienced, I was looking again at the times I suppose they are quite impressive DC's fastest race lap this year was in the 1.16's and Bourdais done a low 1.20 today so it is quite impressive. A couple of lifts here and there and a couple of missed apexs around the lap and there's your 4 seconds so just proves how close to F1 they are.

[TecnoRacing]

Any idea of the trap speeds at the end of the straight, F1 vs. Champcar?

[xflow7]

Derek Daly (on 'dinger) : "We call him the one-man highlight reel/crash-fest. We say that lovingly." LOL

That was a nice little profile of Mario they did leading into the race.

[molive]

Nice to see MTL in summer colours.

The cars look a little sluggish and too big in some shots, but the nose-cam is real cool.

[xflow7]

Yeah, as cool as it is to have them racing on this track, it doesn't really flatter them particularly when you're used to F1 cars banging around. The extra 400lbs or whatever is pretty evident.

I'm really looking forward to '07 with the new spec which hopefully will be considerably lighter and even more fun to watch.

[Dudley]

Originally posted by VresiBerba

But why is that impressive

I can guarantee you that with a tenth of the Newman/Haas budget (a hundredth of the Minardi budget?) you could produce the fastest formula-car in the world. Regulation wise, the car wouldn't be allowed to race though. Not in F1, not in CART.

Indeed, what it really tells you is how much they've artifically slowed down F1 cars recently.

[Bumper]

OK, why did we need to have a full course yellow for 5 mins for a single piece of debris/carbon fibre on the track other than to do a Nascar and bunch up the field?

And much as I am not a fan of Timo Glock, the way he was asked to move over for Oriol Servia on the penultimate lap for what was purely a racing incident in the chicane was just silly.

[StickShift]

In regards to Glock cutting the chicane to keep his position; once is an incident, twice is taking an unfair advantage.

Cart made the right call IMO.

[molive]

Originally posted by Bumper
OK, why did we need to have a full course yellow for 5 mins for a single piece of debris/carbon fibre on the track other than to do a Nascar and bunch up the field?

Yep. I hate that too, but it did provide for some little emotion right to the end, didnt it?

Originally posted by Bumper
And much as I am not a fan of Timo Glock, the way he was asked to move over for Oriol Servia on the penultimate lap for what was purely a racing incident in the chicane was just silly.

yep, I think it was too tough, but even his team owner knew it was coming after he saw Timo cut the chicane to prevent the pass, so I guess it was the right thing rule-wise.


Congrats to Servia, anyway.

[VresiBerba]

Originally posted by molive
Yep. I hate that too, but it did provide for some little emotion right to the end, didnt it?

It didn't provide a thing in my opinion. I was extremely annoyed that since we had a full course yellow just a few laps before, all cars would be bunched up together, thus a course worker could do a quick pop out to pick the piece up, safely. There was no need for another PC at all.

[Ross Stonefeld]

My understanding is in CART/US racing if you're going to put course workers on track like that, insurance says you have to put them under safety car. Hopefully someone can correct, but I think its a follow-on rule from the Willy T Ribbs incident back in the day when a marshall was killed.

[DamattaSpeed]

fantastic last few laps of racing...total chaos...

glock had a great run, but he blocked AND shortcut the chicane. twice! that absolutely deserved a penalty.

wilson and servia were the drivers of the race today. justin's agressiveness is quite impressive. i think he is the best in the series today. servia finally showed a mean streak, and was rewarded for it with the victory. and, damatta finished a race after 5 straight dnfs...(me grateful for small things )

the racing has been superb this year.

on to vegas.

[molive]

even the sprinkle that fell in the track made it interesting. they should make it mandatory in the last few laps to spice up thing when the race gets boring...

[Bumper]

By the way congratulations to Charles Zwolsman for winning this year's Atlantics championship Shame he's missing out on the hefty $2 million prize money promised for next year's winner (who's paying that money?).

[Dudley]

Originally posted by Bumper
By the way congratulations to Charles Zwolsman for winning this year's Atlantics championship Shame he's missing out on the hefty $2 million prize money promised for next year's winner (who's paying that money?).

OWRS themselves I believe.

[VresiBerba]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
My understanding is in CART/US racing if you're going to put course workers on track like that, insurance says you have to put them under safety car. Hopefully someone can correct, but I think its a follow-on rule from the Willy T Ribbs incident back in the day when a marshall was killed.

If that's true it's of course a valid reason. From a standpoint view of a follower though, a TV-viewer, It looked safe enough to run out and simply pick the piece up. The lap is after all 90 seconds long, and there would be plenty of time to run ten yards to pick this sole piece of debris up and get to safety, especially since the train of cars were bunched up due to the PC just earlier.

That's of course in my opinion.

[cheesy poofs]

Originally posted by fer312t
Any idea of the trap speeds at the end of the straight, F1 vs. Champcar?

The Champ Cars were clocked at around 175-180 at about the same spot were the F1 guys reach 200-205 mph about 200 meters before the last turn.

[cheesy poofs]

The last 20 laps or so turned out to very intersting to watch from my perspective in turn 1. What shocked me is the relatively small crowd that showed up for the race. The figures estimate that around 36 000 people watched the race.

Those who have been here the F1 race would have been surprised by how little grandstands there were around the track. Seems the organizers decided to keep only 4 of the 13 stands from the F1 race. The Champ Car guys took notice of this and were apparently disapointed at this situation.

[Jhope]

Actually, I was shocked to see that there was practically no one at the circuit. Even in Montreal, it seemed no one gave a damn.

Sorry about the no-show cheesy, I wasn't able to get my carcass out of bed this morning. You know, late night with da wife.;)

[cheesy poofs]

No problemo dude ! BTW - Check your mail at work...

The bad weather early in the morning did little to help things. It probably held quite a few people back.

[xflow7]

Originally posted by cheesy poofs
The last 20 laps or so turned out to very intersting to watch from my perspective in turn 1. What shocked me is the relatively small crowd that showed up for the race. The figures estimate that around 36 000 people watched the race.

Those who have been here the F1 race would have been surprised by how little grandstands there were around the track. Seems the organizers decided to keep only 4 of the 13 stands from the F1 race. The Champ Car guys took notice of this and were apparently disapointed at this situation.

Audio Roundtable (at CART.com) this week touches on the grandstand situation. They have a guest journalist on (forgotten his name) and he starts right off with his disappointment with the grandstand situation. He expresses skepticism about the cited reason for the stand reduction (family friendly areas, etc) and, in my interpretation anyway, seems to incinuate that it was effectively attendence sabatoge by Legault to ensure that he could boot ChampCar out in order to get NASCAR (as he's supposedly only allowed 2 races a year). Maybe I read too much into what he was saying, and it sounds awfully scandalous, but there it is.

[Jhope]

One thing about the race that really had my blood boiling was the Allmendinger penalty. How the hell can OWRS justify the penalty after it was bloody obvious that A.J needed to come in or risk destroying the whole left front of his car, as well as possibly putting other cars at risk with tyre debris? It was a safety issue that needed to be adressed fast. I found that he was unlucky enough to *just* miss the pit entrance, but to add insult to injury, he got penalised for doing what he really had to do. This is not a JPM type penalty, this one is just plain stupid, and OWRS officials should burry their heds in the sand.


oh, what the hell was up with the laughable shock covers flying off?

[Jhope]

Originally posted by DamattaSpeed

wilson and servia were the drivers of the race today. justin's agressiveness is quite impressive. i think he is the best in the series today. servia finally showed a mean streak, and was rewarded for it with the victory. and, damatta finished a race after 5 straight dnfs...(me grateful for small things )

Don't forget that Wilson was on the pace with a wrongly ratioed final drive, as well as him backing off massively going towards the pitlane chicane.

[xflow7]

Originally posted by Jhope
One thing about the race that really had my blood boiling was the Allmendinger penalty. How the hell can OWRS justify the penalty after it was bloody obvious that A.J needed to come in or risk destroying the whole left front of his car, as well as possibly putting other cars at risk with tyre debris? It was a safety issue that needed to be adressed fast. I found that he was unlucky enough to *just* miss the pit entrance, but to add insult to injury, he got penalised for doing what he really had to do. This is not a JPM type penalty, this one is just plain stupid, and OWRS officials should burry their heds in the sand.


oh, what the hell was up with the laughable shock covers flying off?

IMO they blew it by refuelling the car. Had they come in, changed the tire, and sent him back out I don't think there would have been a penalty, but of course they'd have ended up back there anyway after having to make another stop.