22 replies to this topic

[DREW]

First new thread here in a forum where I'm really intimidated by the depth of knowledge, so be gentle guys...

I love the look of blank "meatballs" on the sides of mid-century sports race cars...So much so, that I added them to my street car, a Miata (MX-5/Eunos for the rest of the world).



Yeah, I've probably been watching too much "Victory by Design"...

Anyhoo, now I'm getting questions as to the origin of blank meatballs. Could anybody please inform me the reason why there are blank "meatballs"? Did this originate "back in the day" (I could swear I've seen pictures), or is this a more recent graphic trend that's kind of a generic reference to a racing pedigree? And are "meatballs" also called "roundels" or is that something else?

Thanx much in advance,

DREW

[Paul Rochdale]

Drew
I've never heard the term 'blank meatballs' which is what you call the circular backgrounds to racing numbers. Each to his own, I say, but when you come to sell the car, I hope the paint doesn't come off with it, poser!

[DREW]

Sigh...

Gosh, did I post in a smack-talkin', name callin' insecure-youth-posturing forum by mistake? Nope, the nice civilized Atlas Nostalgia form...Oh well...Sticks and stones, my friend...

I could swear I've heard the term "meatballs" before, but as the "quote" marks suggest, I'm even unsure of the term, so feel free to inform me better on that as well.

Thanx much for all the information you took time to share with me, Paul.

DREW

[BRG]

If your car is regularly used in events where you have a different number each time, as is usual in most series below the major championships, you will need a background panel for the numbers each time. There is no point in removing it between meetings – that just costs money and risks damaging the paintwork.

Then of course the posers tend to copy this to try to ’look the part’ – which seems to be where you come in! In order to shake off the poser tag, I recommend that you go and do an event in your Mazda immediately!

[Frank S]

It seems to me "poser" is an affectionate term
in this context. Relax.

Any road, I'm delighted to see blank rondels (roundels?)
on any vehicle, street or track. There is a natural joy in
completed objects, and just look at that circle!

What you are posing at, my view, is a person who likes
the look. Very effectively, too.


"Back in the day" I dual-used all my racing cars (all three of them).
The first, an MGB Tourer, was not guaranteed a number, and I put
semi-permanent number eleven with two plain verticals. If that
number was taken, I had the option of adding horizontals and
others to create zero, eight, fourteen, forty-one, with black tape.
Quick and easy.



The next two, Vega Kammback and Vega GT Coupe, the number
thirty-nine was "permanent" and I used that as an excuse to
put B I G numbers on them.



And after I sold it:


--
Frank S

"In this universe there are things that just don't yield to thinking
—plain or fancy—
Dude".
—J. Spicoli, PolyPartyPerson

Edit:
PS: "Meatball" was the black flag with an orange circle,
where I came from. Another kind of completion, there.

[DREW]

Thanx Frank...Glad you "get it"...

Love the Kammback, BTW...You musta taken some flack for that in it's day, huh?

In order to shake off the poser tag, I recommend that you go and do an event in your Mazda immediately!

Sorry...Missed the sticky that required you to post your racing resume with your posts. Though the helmets and guardrails could have been a clue. : Make erroneous assumptions all ya want guys....I'm still basking in the glow of the quote from the driver of a GT-3 Cup car who came up to me after the event last week and asked "What the hell do you have in that thing?"

DREW

[WDH74]

As a fellow Miata owner, what the hell do you have in that thing? (and what kinda wheels are those?)

I've seen racing cars in advertisements, and in magazines, where there are big white roundels on the sides and hood, for placement of numbers. As Frank stated, if you weren't guaranteed a number, you needed someplace to put them. A big, stick on roundel gave you room to play around with the black electrical tape without risking the paint. I've also seen cars with the numbers on them and a piece of tape through it, crossing it out. Apparently that's a rule-competition numbers have to be "crossed out" on the road.

As for the term "meatball", the only reference I've ever stumbled across was in reference to the large red circles on the wings and fuselages of Japanese aircraft during WW2, which naturally was representative of the Japanese flag.

-William

[Pils1989]

Yes, it's a rule in France.

[Twin Window]

Is it stating the blindingly obvious to note that racing roundels have often been, well... square?

[DREW]

Originally posted by WDH74
As a fellow Miata owner, what the hell do you have in that thing? (and what kinda wheels are those?)-William

Well, when I answered the GT-3 guy, I said, "A passenger, and the dead weight is really holding me back" but in reality it's got a BRP MP-62 supercharger with the pully upgrade. Mind you, I'm not saying I kept up with the guy, not by a long shot, but it wasn't the old "Holy crap, where did HE come from in my rear view mirror?" followed by "Where did he go so quick?" that I used to do before the forced induction. Life is short, dude...Go buy a S/C...Trust me...

BTW, both of the guys with the GT-3 had Miatas at home.

The wheels are the new Konig Rewinds and I got 'em from Goodwin Racing. Really reasonable...I've been wanting wheels that looked like that since I was a teenager.

DREW

[D-Type]

The alternative to black tape was to use black tyre paint. It could be cleaned off with petrol so a white surface you could rub with a petrol-soaked rag was better than damaging the paintwork.

I've also heard that it's illegal to have race numbers on the road unless you are actually competing in a rally or similar.

And finally, I've never heard of "meatballs" either.

[philippe charuest]

in north america(in québec anyway) the word "meatball " was use for the black flag use if a car had a leak or fuming or losing part any kind of hazzard for the other competitors. its a black flag with a large orange rondell in the center

[DREW]

Originally posted by Twin Window
Is it stating the blindingly obvious to note that racing roundels have often been, well... square?

But wouldn't that make them "Squarels"?

Sorry...

DREW

[Ray Bell]

D-Type is right...

Some places it is or was illegal to display competition numbers on public roads. Cars that were driven to race meetings in Australia typically had newspaper taped over the numbers.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Ray Bell

Some places it is or was illegal to display competition numbers on public roads. Cars that were driven to race meetings in Australia typically had newspaper taped over the numbers.

It was/is the same in the UK for rallying; you used to/still have to have to cross-out your numbers while driving the rally car on public roads when not actually competing - for example if you have to drive the car home afterwards, as opposed to trailering it.

However, during multi-venue events, it was/is ok to display the numerals on [public] road sections.

[Frank S]

Life is really strange:

The MGB had "Ardilla Matón (~"Killer Squarel") lettered on the front wing (fender).
All three of my dramatically numbered cars were driven all over Southern California with nary an enforcement contact. My sister drove the Vega Coupe that way for a couple years, no hassles.

I got a summons when I was trying to sell the Dodge Dart tow car and left it parked on the street in front of my house with bunper-sticker-size "For Sale" signs in the rear side windows. I put a single strip of masking tape through the "For Sale" lettering and the same rozzer (I looked it up!) stopped the next day. I had him on the horn to his supervisor (I looked it up!) and embarrassed him into going away.

"Give him the 'meatball' " was an order reluctantly but necessarily given when a vehicle was, for example, leaking a fluid on the racing line. In one case at Holtville it was a clear fluid and not a large amount, according to turn personnel. I let him finish the last two laps of practice. Bad call: the battery had come adrift and spilled its juice in the Spitfire's trunk. Fortunately there was no one close behind him.

--
Frank S

[MoMurray]

Two things Drew,

1. Thanks for staying with your (debut) thread despite the rude responses. It is normally not so hostile in here.

2. I had a miata with an Eaton charger, sway bays as big as a childs arm, MSD ignition/manifold pressure interface and 17" Borbets and it was lots of fun. Then the lease ran out so I removed the kit and turned it back in...was that wrong?

As it was strictly a road car I did not have meatballs, blank or otherwise...;)

Mo

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by Twin Window
It was/is the same in the UK for rallying; you used to/still have to have to cross-out your numbers while driving the rally car on public roads when not actually competing - for example if you have to drive the car home afterwards, as opposed to trailering it.

However, during multi-venue events, it was/is ok to display the numerals on [public] road sections.

I think this is/was actually aimed at good PR rather than anything else.
The idea being that if you got involved in an accident or a traffic violation and you had a number on the side it would reflect baldy on "the sport".
Also that number (in theory) made you easy to track you down to a specific event/venue which might then fall foul of the 'moral guardians' in society. We all know the sort... they could then point fingers and declare "see what we mean about your nasty race track spoiling our lovely countryside..." and such.

In recent years some championships (WRC, DTC , F1 among others) seemed to try and avoid displaying visible numbers at all and the 'roundal' or it's square incarnation have almost vanished which from a spectator's point of view isn't a great help while watching a race.

Simon Lewis

[Paul Rochdale]

Drew
I'm sorry. I didn't intend to sound aggressive or offensive, it's just that our lives in the UK are plagued by boy racers with noisy exhausts, squeeling tyres and attrocious behaviour some of whom like to display racing numbers. It's just that everyone get's lumped in together in that 'Who gives a toss about anyone else' attitude. It was a mild josh after all. Friends?

[DREW]

Noisy exhaust...Check!
Squealing tires and atrocious driving...nah, too old.

So if you can live with 33% "Who gives a toss?" then yeah, we're good. I don't get mad, I get sarcastic.;)

Thanx much to all for the interesting input...That's just the kinda stuff I was looking for.

DREW

[Doug Nye]

The 'meatball' reference of course made sense in the case of the Japanese Hinomaru 'red ball of the rising sun' marking, because those babies were blood-red in colour, hence the descriptive tag given to them by US sailors and airmen.

The expression isn't really very close when it comes to the white, yellow, pale-blue or even pale-green number roundels we have seen applied to so many racing cars over the years...depends how well-bled, or how old, you fancy meat...

DCN

[DREW]

Yep, I obviously got it mixed up with the "meatball" flag. Roundels it is!

Why am I hungry for a steak all of a sudden?;)

DREW

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Frank S
"Give him the 'meatball' " was an order reluctantly but necessarily given when a vehicle was, for example, leaking a fluid on the racing line. In one case at Holtville it was a clear fluid and not a large amount, according to turn personnel. I let him finish the last two laps of practice. Bad call: the battery had come adrift and spilled its juice in the Spitfire's trunk. Fortunately there was no one close behind him. Frank S

Frank S....the thing I worry about when I see a car leaking gas/petrol/fuel is not so much the racing line fouling thing as the high danger that the car will catch fire

...It has got to be a recipe for disaster when you have hot everything underneath a car after a few laps and leaking fuel....so....don't be too reluctant to order a Black Flag for the car.....you could be saving the Driver a whole world of hurt

(PS some latitude should be applied on the first laps...oftentimes people overfill tanks....but! a persistent, obvious fuel leak should receive immediate attention)