103 replies to this topic

[ScottNC]

On the Atlantic side of the U.S., local (state) taxes not withstanding we are looking at $3.40 to $3.90/gallon depending on the station owners mood. If you can believe news reports it is as high as $6.00/gallon in the Atlanta, Georgia (U.S.) area. I realize the recent visit by Katrina is affecting prices here stateside but petrol has been what, $1L/liter in the U.K. for years? Our prices were heading that way here even before last weeks weather events. What kind of prices and increases are others of you on the forum seeing in other countries?

[Pirate Danger]

Yikes..

$2.99 here in the DFW area..

[AS110]

In New Zealand today 91 is NZ$1.52.9 per litre,96 NZ$1.57.9 and diesel NZ$1.01.9 per litre,we don't pay road tax on our diesel,we pay on mileage which varies depending on kms per year.

[Ray Bell]

Regular unleaded reached $1.23.9 per litre at the high point of the ridiculous weekly pricing cycle last week in Brisbane. It's $1.16.9 in some places today...

But Brisbane is about 6c a litre lower than other capitals... and country areas are seeing prices in the $1.39 area... possibly higher.

Apart from the fact that there's nowhere to drive, it would sure suck to be a Kiwi... $1.59 Kiwi would be about $1.75 AUD wouldn't it? Problem is I have to drive over 3500kms in the next week and a half.

[AS110]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
.

Apart from the fact that there's nowhere to drive, it would sure suck to be a Kiwi... $1.59 Kiwi would be about $1.75 AUD wouldn't it? Problem is I have to drive over 3500kms in the next week and a half.

Nowhere to drive - but it's ALL corners,a motorcycling paradise.We have a protest day today - don't buy from BP...the station next to me is very quiet,hardly any cars all day....but they'll be back there tomorrow,so what's the point?

[soubriquet]

Its 123 Yen/litre here. USD 1.12/litre.

[WHITE]

Spain : regular unleaded = 1,03 euros/litre

[Canuck]

Calgary is CAD $1.144/L for regular, add .10 for premium.

[kos]

17.80 Roubles per liter of Premium (95) here in Moscow (that is, 0.68 USD using current exchange rate)

[wati]

Just under €1 per liter in Slovenia. I don't know why the Americans are complaining, a gallon is around 4 liters, so it's still very cheap.

[kismet]

Finland where taxing drivers into oblivion is a governmental pastime: 1.5 euros/litre which equals 1.88 USD/liter (appr.)

Or 7.23 USD/gallon if my conversions are OK.

[shaun979]

About 2.00 SGD / litre (4.50 USD / gallon ) in Singapore.
About 3.00 USD / gallon in Houston, Texas.

[AndrewNystrom]

$6,27 / gallon in sweden. And it will probably rise even more.

[Engineguy]

Prices, at the pump, around the US are right at $3.00 a gallon plus/minus about $0.20. The (quite irresponsible) media, as always, find one or two gas stations in the whole frickin' country that jacked their price to a panic level (i.e the famous $6 in Atlanta) for a few hours and they repeat the story over and over and over and over every 30 minutes on their 24 hour news channels for days and days to sensationalize a small story into a big one. Then the masses, believing the inflated story, panic and drive to gas stations and top up before they need to, in some cases forming waiting lines, perpetuating the story, or even causing local shortages where none would exist given normal behavior. Idiots.

The wholesale price of refined gasoline generally shakes out pretty even around the world, like all commodities, give or take a little for differences in transport efficiency. Those in countries that pay a lot more at the pump are paying for, at some level, taxes, not gas.

[alexbiker]

Originally posted by ScottNC
I realize the recent visit by Katrina is affecting prices here stateside but petrol has been what, $1L/liter in the U.K. for years?

Prices are currently around £0.90 a litre for British petrol, which would count as premium grade in America. They have been steadily increasing from around £0.65 a litre in around 1998. That works out as $1.20 increasing to $1.65 at current exchange rates - that would be different using a correct historical rate for 1998.

Overall, it works out a modern British litre is the equivalent of $7.43 per gallon. This is mostly tax, and tax on the tax (we pay VAT - value added tax or sales tax - at 17.5% on top of the government duty, so in effect the government charges tax on tax).

As a consequence, the average British car has a lot better fuel efficiency and a lot smaller engine than the American equivalent - I drive a 1.6l Focus, the most common new car sold in Britain, wheras the smallest engine a Focus comes with in the US is a 2L, usually with a mileage-sapping slushbox (for shame), tuned for lower fuel efficiency than the British model.

Edit: Same engine, just that the car's heavier

Thing is, I don't really object - it was cheaper I'd just waste more.

Alex

[fasttrack]

In Brazil, price vary a lot depending on the city and where in the country you are. In my home city, it's a about US$ 1,00 per liter; but where I'm working (600 km from where I was supposed to live : ), gas is cheaper, a little over US$ 0,90 per liter.

It's interesting to note that gas was never as cheap as now in Brazil, mainly for three reasons:

-- Petrobras is said to have enough capacity for the internal market, and thus has reduced Brazilian dependency on foreign oil to some extent;

-- The dolar was never so low, barring times where an artificial exchange rate were being maintained at expense of economic reality;

-- And finally, Petrobras is still a state-controlled company, and the government seems to be manipulating its numbers to avoid inflation. Gas prices propagate quickly over the entire economy and could cause inflation to raise above the predicted levels.

All of this means that the current low price are probably artificial, in a significant way. We have to wait to see for how long can Petrobras keep the price this low.

[Nathan]

Originally posted by wati
Just under €1 per liter in Slovenia. I don't know why the Americans are complaining, a gallon is around 4 liters, so it's still very cheap.

North Americans as a rule have further distances to travel and thus consume more gasoline. I would bet annual fuel costs are about the same.

[Greg Locock]

Hmm, you might want to check that. I believe that you'll find that average annual mileages per driver are very similar for the USA, the UK and Oz.

[Supercar]

Originally posted by Nathan North Americans as a rule have further distances to travel and thus consume more gasoline. I would bet annual fuel costs are about the same.

I think this is true. You can't live a normal life without a car here (unless you live in NYC, then you can't afford a car anyway because of the price of insurance). You have to have one to get groceries and go to work every day. I think the national average is about 12K miles/year (19308 km/year). Mine is 3X that much, so at the current prices I will spend $4700 per year on gas.

Philip

[Greg Locock]

Note on methodology - probably the most accurate way is to work out how many cars each driver owns on average, and then multiplying that by the annual mileage observed when each car is scrapped. That does not seem a very helpful to me since it is using 13 year old data, typically!


In the UK it is 8.7-12000 miles per driver per year, depending on methodology, most people quote 9000 or 10000. eg DoT says "(In the UK average annual mileage is around 12,000 miles [c19,000 kilometres] for males and 8,000 miles [c13,000 kilometres] for females, though this difference is continually reducing). "


In NZ "This difference was not as large in 1999; men reported driving 18 655 kilometres whereas women reported 10 967 kilometres". That's about 12000 and 7000 miles respectively


In Oz we don't actually know the answer. In 1996 134 billion km were driven by a populace of 18 million, of whom what, 2/3 have licenses? that comes to 12000 km! Like I said methodology matters a lot. Per vehicle the number seems to hover around 15000 km, which does not tie up at all, since the average person (not driver) owns 0.6 cars.

[crono33]

in socialist europe, motorists are one of the major fonts of tax money for states

tax on cars, on insurance, road tax, and fuel tax in some countries add up to some 20% of all the tax flow.

i dont believe to the story that governments keep the prices high to make people use less fuel. they are just so money hungry that they take the money where it is easier.
around 75% of the fuel price are taxes. i believe in the middle ages, taxes above 10% would trigger revolts and revolutions...
in italy, people is starting to use vegetable oil in their diesel cars. believe it or not, cheap frying oil costs quite less than diesel fuel. unfortunately, this is considered tax evasion and carries stiff penalties.

im currently in the netherlands, and at current change rate fuel is around USD 6.30 per gallon.

gm

Originally posted by Nathan


North Americans as a rule have further distances to travel and thus consume more gasoline. I would bet annual fuel costs are about the same.

[phantom II]

Soon to be socialist USA a US Gallon>3.7853liters.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by crono33
[B]in socialist europe

[Fat Boy]

Originally posted by crono33
im currently in the netherlands, and at current change rate fuel is around USD 6.30 per gallon.

It seems to be doing wonders for the Dutch economy.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by Engineguy
Prices, at the pump, around the US are right at $3.00 a gallon plus/minus about $0.20. The (quite irresponsible) media, as always, find one or two gas stations in the whole frickin' country that jacked their price to a panic level (i.e the famous $6 in Atlanta) for a few hours and they repeat the story over and over and over and over every 30 minutes on their 24 hour news channels for days and days to sensationalize a small story into a big one. Then the masses, believing the inflated story, panic and drive to gas stations and top up before they need to, in some cases forming waiting lines, perpetuating the story, or even causing local shortages where none would exist given normal behavior. Idiots.

When the price of a universal commodity like gasoline fluctuates ten to fifteen percent in a single day, it is being manipulated on the supply side. There isn't enough leverage on the demand side. Consumers cannot hoard gasoline. So everyone fills their tanks -- then what? Shouldn't the price then plummet as quickly as it rose? Sure, like that ever happened. No, we are being hosed, pure and simple.

[kNt]

Without Taxes it's about 75 US cent/liter in Switzerland, with Taxes a little less than twice that.

Austria is a bit higher and Germany about 1.5x.

Very interesting try to regulate inflation over the oil price by a governement.

[MotoGuzzi]

An interesting thread. I just returned from a vacation on the Outer Banks of North Carolina (USA) where prices were $3.399USD/gal. Back home in Petersburg Virginia, prices are $2.999USD/gal to $3.199USD/gal.

As for mileage, I rack up about 20,000 miles/year. Needless to say, my motorcycle has quickly become the preferred mode of transport. 50 miles/gallon is a real help at times like this.

My apologies to all of our friends in other countries. It's threads like this that makes us Yanks sound like a bunch of spoiled babies. It's funny that we are relearning the lesson from the 1970's oil embargo. Consumers have driven carmakers to build bigger / less efficient vehicles, and then we get hit by an unexpected event that drives gas prices through the roof. But before you call me an elitist snob, I just bought my first full-size 4x4 American pickup truck this spring ... 15 mpg. So count me in as one of those dumb suckers I just wrote about.

MG

[crono33]

perhaps going OT, but i believe only around 25% of oil is used to produce fuels for transport. the rest is used for electricity production/heating.

which is totally insane

nuclear and to some extent solar/wind/hydroelectric should be used to produce electricity and heat, and only where there is little alternative fossil fuels should be used.

having said this, there is still lots of oil. the current price hike is driven mostly by lack of refineries (i heard is pumped more oil that it can be refined) and other long term concerns like China/India hunger for oil, not lack of oil itself.

gm

Originally posted by MotoGuzzi
An interesting thread. I just returned from a vacation on the Outer Banks of North Carolina (USA) where prices were $3.399USD/gal. Back home in Petersburg Virginia, prices are $2.999USD/gal to $3.199USD/gal.

As for mileage, I rack up about 20,000 miles/year. Needless to say, my motorcycle has quickly become the preferred mode of transport. 50 miles/gallon is a real help at times like this.

My apologies to all of our friends in other countries. It's threads like this that makes us Yanks sound like a bunch of spoiled babies. It's funny that we are relearning the lesson from the 1970's oil embargo. Consumers have driven carmakers to build bigger / less efficient vehicles, and then we get hit by an unexpected event that drives gas prices through the roof. But before you call me an elitist snob, I just bought my first full-size 4x4 American pickup truck this spring ... 15 mpg. So count me in as one of those dumb suckers I just wrote about.

MG

[HONDA FANATIC]

Rs. 52/litre in Pakistan

60 Rs = 1 US $

[Antoine]

in France

Unlead 95 from 1.35 to 1.5€/liter
Unlead 98 from 1.37 to 1.55€/Liter

[MikeTekRacing]

Romania Unleaded 95 is from 1.05euros/litre

[275 GTB-4]

A$1.39/litre tonite in Canberra

[Gear Jammer]

Filled up tonight in Melbourne, Aus best price I could see on my way home was $1.43 AUD

GJ

[Paolo]

In Italy, 1.4 Euro a litre ...
Probably the most expensive in the world.

[D82]

Here's the situation in Turkey:

Unleaded: 2.68 YTL/litre

1 Euro = 1.660 YTL
1 USD = 1.337 YTL

[Mr_Pockets]

Originally posted by wati
Just under €1 per liter in Slovenia. I don't know why the Americans are complaining, a gallon is around 4 liters, so it's still very cheap.

I've heard this sentiment a lot, and it's not really fair. I understand that gas is still relatively cheaper here, but please understand that prices have gone up a lot over that past year. The cost of everything includes the fuel it took to get it to your door or the shop you bought it in. When fuel costs go up by 70-100%, please understand the effect that has on an economy.

[McGuire]

Americans don't really pay less. Because our system is irrational and doesn't reflect the true cost of supporting the transportation system, we actually pay more in the end.

I was reminded of all that this morning at the local suburban coffee shop when I saw a 110-lb housewife stepping out of a brand new F-350 4WD crew cab pickup. This vehicle will never carry more than 300 lbs of cargo (small children and groceries) and it will never travel off the pavement. And she left this monster running while she ran in to grab her scone and latte, by the way.

What she pays in gasoline taxes and road use taxes in no way reflects the economic burden she places on the system. The rest of us pay her way. If she had to bear all the economic cost for her silly choice as a consumer, she would never have made it. As taxpayers we are subsidizing people to make these irrational choices, and we call this "freedom."

[TOPCAT1976]

A little off topic I know, but my 2 cents worth on UK fuel prices etc...

Put the cost of road tax on the price of fuel. This way people who use the roads the most will pay for them....

I bought a new motorbike this year and when it dawned on me that I would be paying 2 lots of road tax (Car & Bike) when I can only ever use one of the on public roads at once I was slightly down hearted......


Fuel over here is taxed and then taxed again and the main reason is because it's the easiest way for any government to make money - we need to travel.

Sorry for the tangent.

TC

[belout]

Gasoline is cheaper in the USA because they steal the oil around the world for a while, using CIA and other military force as lately in Irak.

Americans are the worst consumers of oil. Not a bad thing their gas price increases. Even at this price they cannot complain at all.

Maybe when many and many Katrinas and other disasters, they will start to think to apply the Kyoto agreement.

Not a bad thing the oil increases around the world.

The bad news is that the benefit doesn't serve exclusively for energy R&D.

That is clear.

[Greg Locock]

Is oil cheap in Australia because we steal it from around the world?

Somehow I doubt that the average sheikh quakes in fear when he hears an agent from the mighty ASIO Australian Secret Intelligence Organisation) is on his trail, with or without both of our overseas soldiers.

Now, stop being silly and give your older brother his computer back.

[belout]

American and Australian troops invaded Irak for freedom.....




Another joke please .. !

[BRIAN GLOVER]

Brother. You really aught to read Thomas Sowell's Basic Economics, my friend and put down that Communist Manifesto..

I have a diesel Silverado 2500 that has yet to carry a load. I have a Vette that only I drive and the way I drive it, it gets 9 mpg. I have 3 aircraft that burn tons of global warming avgas. The twin burns 15 gals per hour, the aerobatic plane burns 25 gals per hour and it doesnt even go anywhere. My 180 hp plane that I use stricly for hunting, burns 10 gals per hour. My boat burns 2 gallons per mile. I have a Chevy Metro that does 40 mpg. I won't even mention my homes and projects that 'waste' everybody's engergy while others starve. Oh yeah, my wife weighs 110 lbs. She towed her horses all over the place with Chevy Suburbans. My 3 kids have pick 'em up trucks for daily use as do my two brothers.

How many pounds of fuel do you think is required to put on, say, the Brazillian GP, including Michael Schumachers pit lane Scooter? How many 747s do they use? Just to become airborn, the Boengs will use 700 gallons each.

I have 5 gas stations and I have to go to court next month for price gouging charges.


Ronald Reagan followed the Freeman economic model and don't you know, he got gas prices to come dowm by outlawing price controls and allowing the market to correct itself. A novel concept.

Do you know that it is impossible to be 'hosed', as you say?

I feel your pain, Adam Smith.

Originally posted by McGuire
Americans don't really pay less. Because our system is irrational and doesn't reflect the true cost of supporting the transportation system, we actually pay more in the end.

I was reminded of all that this morning at the local suburban coffee shop when I saw a 110-lb housewife stepping out of a brand new F-350 4WD crew cab pickup. This vehicle will never carry more than 300 lbs of cargo (small children and groceries) and it will never travel off the pavement. And she left this monster running while she ran in to grab her scone and latte, by the way.

What she pays in gasoline taxes and road use taxes in no way reflects the economic burden she places on the system. The rest of us pay her way. If she had to bear all the economic cost for her silly choice as a consumer, she would never have made it. As taxpayers we are subsidizing people to make these irrational choices, and we call this "freedom."

No, we are being hosed, pure and simple.

[belout]

You really aught to read Thomas Sowell's Basic Economics, my friend and put down that Communist Manifesto..

No need to read a book or to be a genius to understand i'ts quite a good idea to control Irak to have cheap petrol.

Does Thomas Sowell explains also why USA invaded Irak ?

To find weapons of mass destruction ?

[McGuire]

Originally posted by BRIAN GLOVER
I have a diesel Silverado 2500 that has yet to carry a load. I have a Vette that only I drive and the way I drive it, it gets 9 mpg. I have 3 aircraft that burn tons of global warming avgas. The twin burns 15 gals per hour, the aerobatic plane burns 25 gals per hour and it doesnt even go anywhere. My 180 hp plane that I use stricly for hunting, burns 10 gals per hour. My boat burns 2 gallons per mile. I have a Chevy Metro that does 40 mpg. I won't even mention my homes and projects that 'waste' everybody's engergy while others starve. Oh yeah, my wife weighs 110 lbs. She towed her horses all over the place with Chevy Suburbans. My 3 kids have pick 'em up trucks for daily use as do my two brothers.

I sincerely hope you enjoy all your motorized toys as much as I do mine. Nothing whatsoever wrong with owning any or all of them, or using them however you like. You seem rather guilty (or something) about your material possessions and I want to help you get over it. Actually, I own and drive more personal vehicles than your entire family. Does that help?

All I'm saying: too bad you must sponge off the taxpayers to finance your fleet, Mr. Free Enterprise. Under the current system you are not paying your way in the very real cost in road use, or to the state, to the economy or to the environment. You are just one more freeloader in that regard, like those damn welfare mothers. (I saw one buying fresh bread instead of day-old with her food stamps the other day. Can you imagine the nerve?) I just hope the Feds are soaking you enough in income tax to make up the difference. I think oh, half your annual gross should be just about fair. Also, Sowell is a right-wing crackpot. One more tip: stop tuning those vehicles yourself and hire a professional. Looks like your equipment is half a bubble off.

[McGuire]

Originally posted by belout
Gasoline is cheaper in the USA because they steal the oil around the world for a while, using CIA and other military force as lately in Irak.

Taxes aside, Americans pay about the same for gasoline as everyone else. And in the end our final transportation costs are higher because our method of financing our transportation system is all screwed up. The transportation system itself it all screwed up too, but that's another story.

[Bob Riebe]

Originally posted by belout
Gasoline is cheaper in the USA because they steal the oil around the world for a while, using CIA and other military force as lately in Irak.

Americans are the worst consumers of oil. Not a bad thing their gas price increases. Even at this price they cannot complain at all.

Maybe when many and many Katrinas and other disasters, they will start to think to apply the Kyoto agreement.

Not a bad thing the oil increases around the world.

The bad news is that the benefit doesn't serve exclusively for energy R&D.

That is clear.

Paranoia strikes deep, into your life it will creep...

Bob

[phantom II]

The Baron burns 15 GPH per engine. My Bad. I changed the 3 plugs on my Metro all by myself once. One blew out and dented the hood.

Originally posted by McGuire



All I'm saying: too bad you must sponge off the taxpayers to finance your fleet, Mr. Free Enterprise. Under the current system you are not paying your way in the very real cost in road use, or to the state, to the economy or to the environment. You are just one more freeloader in that regard, like those damn welfare mothers. . I think oh, half your annual gross should be just about fair. Also, Sowell is a right-wing crackpot. One more tip: stop tuning those vehicles yourself and hire a professional.

Looks like your equipment is half a bubble off.

[phantom II]

Hey Desmo,

I thought we had certain standards here.

Where are you from, boy?

For your information, that's our oil under their sand.

Originally posted by belout



No need to read a book or to be a genius to understand i'ts quite a good idea to control Irak to have cheap petrol.

Does Thomas Sowell explains also why USA invaded Irak ?

To find weapons of mass destruction ?

[Bill Sherwood]

Originally posted by BRIAN GLOVER
How many 747s do they use? Just to become airborn, the Boengs will use 700 gallons each.

FWIW we burn about 33 tonnes per hour for about 45 seconds at takeoff power to get airborne, so that's about 412 kg, or about 515 litres or about 113 gallons.
Just a tad shy of 700 gallons.;)

Bill S, 747 Captain.

[phantom II]

IIWAL. Thanks. Did you count delay time and taxi time * 6 747s?

What do you burn at cruise? ...and would that be a partial thrust take off? A SAA 747 capt. told me that they use a 36% reducton at TO with a full gross/ full fuel 400 enroute to Jo'burg out of Miami with 1 stagger. That would be at 8pm in the summer. I guess that would be different at noon or out of Denver?

An old 747 B would use full thrust, all the runway and sometimes 4 staggers. 600 ftpm would be one hell of a climbing sob compared to the 400s 1500.

What are your routes and are you enjoying it? Tell me more. I keep a Husky in Joburg.

Originally posted by Bill Sherwood


FWIW we burn about 33 tonnes per hour for about 45 seconds at takeoff power to get airborne, so that's about 412 kg, or about 515 litres or about 113 gallons.
Just a tad shy of 700 gallons.;)

Bill S, 747 Captain.

[Bill Sherwood]

Originally posted by phantom II
IIWAL. Thanks. Did you count delay time and taxi time * 6 747s?

No, just the takeoff roll. We allow 1.4 tonnes for startup and taxi but in practice don't use that much.
FWIW 1.4 tonnes is about 1750 litres or about 385 gallons.
Also, the F1 circus only uses two and sometimes three 747's to move the gear around. The company I work for missed out on a bid to move the circus to/from Malaysia and Atlas got it - They used two 747's.

Originally posted by phantom II
What do you burn at cruise? ...and would that be a partial thrust take off? A SAA 747 capt. told me that they use a 36% reducton at TO with a full gross/ full fuel 400 enroute to Jo'burg out of Miami with 1 stagger. That would be at 8pm in the summer. I guess that would be different at noon or out of Denver?

An old 747 B would use full thrust, all the runway and sometimes 4 staggers. 600 ftpm would be one hell of a climbing sob compared to the 400s 1500.

I fly the 747 Classic and the engine I'll use for an example is the Rolls Royce RB211-524-D4X. When we're heavy & low it'll burn about 12 tonnes per hour, high & light down to only 8.
I've never heard the term 'stagger' before. But I guess it means reduced thrust. Max thrust in the Roller is about 1.67 EPR (Engine Pressure Ratio) and max reduced thrust is 1.57 EPR. EPR is a good reference as to how much thrust the engine is making, so 1.57 / 1.67 = about a 15% reduction in thrust. (1.0 EPR = zero thrust) I doubt you'd get off the ground at any reasonable weight with a 36% reduction!
As you'd expect, for a given length of runway and takeoff weight, the higher the temperature the less reduction you can make. Same for increasing altitude - Simple because a reduction in air density requires more thrust from the engines to make both the performance required to accelerate the plane to the decision speed at an appropriate point down the runway and also for minimum climb performance.

Originally posted by phantom II
What are your routes and are you enjoying it? Tell me more. I keep a Husky in Joburg.

I'm normally based in Kuala Lumpur and from there I fly to Sydney, Melbourne, Hong Kong, Bangkok, Penang, Shanghai, Hangzhou, and Dubai.
But right now I'm based in Hong Kong and am just flying to Dubai & back.