70 replies to this topic

[kodandaram]

I must say I have been very impressed with Nick . He did a great job at Williams . He might not race again this season due to his injuries but I think in the time he has raced so far he has done very well and showed up Webber more than a few times. I reckon Webber has lost a bit - just a tiny wee bit of value in market coz of that . I mean with all the hype surrounding him , he has not lived upto them entirely - some of it because of bad luck - but mostly his own doing and also because of the really bad car they have got in this part of the year.

But still - in the same equipment Nick has done more than what was expected. I think Nick really did give Webber a good run for his money and was this Webbers toughest team - mate so far ? no question ...

So do you think that Nick has stolen Webbers thunder ? I say so ...and I am Mark Webber fan ...

[Romulus]

Lot's teams wanted to sign Nick.
BMW signed a 3 year deal with him.
Says it all really.


Webber has been exposed.

[SeanValen]

Perception can change all the time in f1. Trulli made Alonso look lesser in the first half of 2004, sometimes a driver excels when the car is hooked up, and when it's not, driver seems less then good, Nick has been in f1 a bit longer then Webber, more experience, he could be exceling at times with the car, it's difficult to pinpoint and access webber, he could be a trulli, trulli spent seasons being good in quali, and then had upturns in races, maybe some of that is webber, maybe not, some people are not impressed by massa, but he could do well in a decent car.

Hakkinen had troubles when the car wasn't right, and DC was on his pace at times in races, next year's williams may go better for webber, he won't be able to compete with nick, different teams, so he's gonna have to just do his driving, and if nick does well with bmw, then people can expect nick to be a very good driver, which i always thought he was, i wasn't surprised how he did this year, the williams at monaco, canada and nurburg went decent, webber hasn't raced at the front much, I'm prepared to give him 2006 to turn it around.

Minardi and jaguar haven't been cars to race for podiums for webber, the game changed this year, lets see if he adapts, leave the door open, why not. Webber needs a bit more luck, and a competitive car, the trouble he had this year was he would of looked better at monaco if williams called him in before nick, so embarrising moment, then of cource some mistakes, it all contributes to his image, but these things can change, this year it seems Nick has been very good and perfect and can't do no wrong, no pressure on him, nothing to lose, and some luck, great atmosphere to excel, so give that a few seasons.

Bmw won't be expected to be on the pace immediately, so it's quite likely nick will be quiet and keep to himself in 2006 until the car is competitive, williams god knows how good they will be, apart of a driver's market image is the car he has under him, Button hasn't won a race yet, but it hasn't always been his fault, but no one is rating him near kimi or alonso etc, but would they if he was at mclaren etc I'm sure Nick and Webber can be doing decent drives in the mould of Montoya, and he's at mclaren, there's not much in it between some of these drivers.


If Button is at williams next year, then that really will be a big mark webber test, break me or make me etc.

[Ghostrider]

I always thought Webber was a bit overrated in media's eyes, he got headlines that was suggesting he was in the same talent category as Raikkonen, Alonso etc. Which in my eyes is wrong, we can see at his results in F3000 that he is not top echelon in talent. Webber is a very good qualifier, one of the better in F1 I think, but racewise he has much to learn. He tangles way too much with other drivers, I think that is his biggest problem. To stay out of trouble is a big talent in itself, some kind of perception and awareness of what other drivers will do etc, and I think Raikkonen is the master of this, he almost never collides with other drivers. Very impressive.

Having said that, maybe Webber can improve his racing, and get better results in the future.

[tombr]

I voted no. It was Webber's thunder and he didn't do anything to put a claim to it. Heidfeld has done a decent job but, IMO, didn't do anything spectacular. Had Webber been up to his publicity & the perception of many, he could have outperformed Nick even if Nick had the same results that he had this year. Nick didn't steal Mark's thunder. Mark just left it lying around and it disappeared.

[Mat]

i voted yes, but its a fine line. Webber i think, has overall outpaced Heidfeld, but it really hasnt shown. Both have driven some good races this year, but Webber has made more mistakes, much more, and that is what everyone remembers. Webber does neet to sort some things out, most importantly his race craft. Im not sure if it is the pressure, inexperience, bad luck or just simply needs to improve. But he certainly deserves a second chance.

[MortenF1]

I don't think Heidfeld has stolen Webber's thunder. But Heidfeld has, through being able to match Webber, made himself a lot more attractive.

To me, there's no doubt that Webber is the faster of the two, but Heidfeld's perhaps been better and wiser in the races. He's consistent and stays out of trouble, and that's very, very important, as Ghostrider noted.
Even though most of Webber's mishaps have come through no fault of his own, it is part of the game to keep your nose out of accidents and problems (see Montoya).
But I reiterate, Webber's the faster of the two, and had he not suffered his fair share of bad luck.....

[pippin]

Earlier in the season I would have voted yes, but not now. Nick's experience shone through early on for sure and Mark's lack of it was exposed. In recent races things seem to have evened out more, plus now Nick is out we can't judge, so I'd leave it as undecided.

[baddog]

Id say yes definitely. at the start of the season he is competing with pizzonia for the seat as a third choice to act as a backup to the much wanted webber.. at the end he is even perhaps the more looked at of the two.. the williams news story of this year has been nick not mark.

Shaun

[dntm]

I voted no not because Nick didn't do a good job, just the opposite Nick did what he does best, raced consistently and kept out of trouble. I think Webber is the faster driver but as others have said suffered badly from mistakes, over enthusiasm and bad luck. The difference between the two and this is just my opinion is that Nick is as good as he is going to get, solid if unspectacular in races, put in some good drives and reasonable qualifying. Mark on the other hand is very Much a rough diamond, yes he has made mistakes and these mistakes have hurt his race performances but I think he CAN get a lot better, he has raw speed and agresssion, but he needs to temper that with a cool head. Wiliams will forgive him the year he has had in the belief that he will grow into a very accomplished and fast racer.

Nick did all that was expected of him and more and cudos to him. Marks thunder is still there he just needs to stir it back up.

[Zawed]

I voted yes. Webber has been a bit exposed this year in the races and has suffered a bit of bad luck along the way, but Nick really grabbed his chance.

[Captain Cranckcase]

I don't think so, Webber has had a lot of incidents but speed wise he has the edge and is clearly faster than Heidfeld. I just think a lot of people don't like Mark and like to rank him lesser than Nick because Nick is more likeable and perhaps hasn't got the recognition he deserved, but it is obvious IMO that Webber is the faster driver, he's just similar to Montoya and a young DC in that he makes a few mistakes. Webber is no way on the level of Raikkonen or Alonso though but he's a good second tier driver.

[Witt]

Always rated Nick highly, even though the media didn't. His performances at Williams, in my eyes, were nothing short of what i expected from him. At the same time, Mark still matched a man i highly rated, again performing as expected relative to the inconsistent car they had this year. Both drivers are very good at what they do and in the right place at the right time will bring home the bacon. At the moment, Williams is not the right place.

[kodandaram]

Well the poll status right now is interesting .

ITs easy to forget or overlook that Nick is quiet experienced. He had a tough year at Prost in 2000 - but he shone whenever he got a chance even back then . 2001 was his first big break ...he graduated from back of the grid to midfielddriver and he had since then firmly established himself in the midfield. But 2005 was great for him . HE got two podiums and generally matched his much more rated team-mate.

[v@sh]

I think no.

It is more a case of Webber losing his thunder rather than Nick winning it.

Nick has done a solid job this year, driving consistently in the races and keeping out of trouble. Webber on the other hand has either being a victim of an incident, no luck or made mistakes on his own through overdriving. Despite that Webber leads Nick both in qualifying and now the WDC. What Webber needs to improve is his racecraft.

For e.g. Nick got all the accolades for Monaco, because he finished in front of Webber, not to mention a nice pass on Alonso whereas Webber was more messy. However, over the whole weekend Webber was faster than Nick (stated by Patrick Head) but finished behind Nick due to team strategy.

Nick is basically running at his best most of the year whereas Webber hasn't but still has the chance to improve. Two very contrasting driver, Nick not as quick in qualifying but consistent/patient in race - Webber faster but aggressive and lacking in racecraft at times in race.

Both have done good jobs at Williams. So no complaint, but Webber would have been easily ahead of Nick if it weren't for his overdriving, bad luck or being a victim of incidents. The only problem this year is that the Williams car was a lemon at times, but when the car was good both drivers were up there.

[xype]

Originally posted by Romulus
Lot's teams wanted to sign Nick.
BMW signed a 3 year deal with him.
Says it all really.


Webber has been exposed.

Uhm, Nick and Webber have been about the same this season. So if a lot of teams wanted Nick, that would mean they value Webber highly as well?

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by xype
Uhm, Nick and Webber have been about the same this season. So if a lot of teams wanted Nick, that would mean they value Webber highly as well?

Not about same at all. Heidfeld has driven solidly, and matched the pace of Webber except in some qualifying. Maybe Webber thought he will able to crush Heidfeld just like Pizzonia and Yoong, and he always cooked it to mistake. Webbers racing seems to have more frustation than thinking. If I was looking for a driver to team like BMW in it's first year I would prefer Heidfeld approach over Webber. Heidfeld gets some reults, while Webber tries to get more than he can and gets nothing. BMW will surely have some trouble next year, and it's god that driver doesn't let down when the car for once works.

[Vilenova]

I'm glad for Nick. I would say he stole Webber's thunder.

But I have a question though. OT.... SHould JV keep his seat for '06, how do you all see the matchup between Nick and JV as going? JV has lost a tick I would say although he seems to be doing much better lately. But can Nick beat him?

[Force Ten]

Originally posted by SeanValen
Perception can change all the time in f1. Trulli made Alonso look lesser in the first half of 2004, sometimes a driver excels when the car is hooked up, and when it's not, driver seems less then good, Nick has been in f1 a bit longer then Webber, more experience, he could be exceling at times with the car, it's difficult to pinpoint and access webber, he could be a trulli, trulli spent seasons being good in quali, and then had upturns in races, maybe some of that is webber, maybe not, some people are not impressed by massa, but he could do well in a decent car, hakkinen had troubles when the car wasn't right, and DC was on his pace at times in races, next year's williams may go better for webber, he won't be able to compete with nick, different teams, so he's gonna have to just do his driving, and if nick does well with bmw, then people can expect nick to be a very good driver, which i always thought he was, i wasn't surprised how he did this year, the williams at monaco, canada and nurburg went decent, webber hasn't raced at the front much, I'm prepared to give him 2006 to turn it around, minardi and jaguar haven't been cars to race for podiums for webber, the game changed this year, lets see if he adapts, leave the door open, why not. Webber needs a bit more luck, and a competitive car, the trouble he had this year was he would of looked better at monaco if williams called him in before nick, so embarrising moment, then of cource some mistakes, it all contributes to his image, but these things can change, this year it seems Nick has been very good and perfect and can't do no wrong, no pressure on him, nothing to lose, and some luck, great atmosphere to excel, so give that a few seasons, bmw won't be expected to be on the pace immediately, so it's quite likely nick will be quiet and keep to himself in 2006 until the car is competitive, williams god knows how good they will be, apart of a driver's market image is the car he has under him, Button hasn't won a race yet, but it hasn't always been his fault, but no one is rating him near kimi or alonso etc, but would they if he was at mclaren etc I'm sure Nick and Webber can be doing decent drives in the mould of Montoya, and he's at mclaren, there's not much in it between some of these drivers.

Hey, what's your opinion in general about punctuation'n'****?

[aditya-now]

Originally posted by SeanValen
Perception can change all the time in f1. Trulli made Alonso look lesser in the first half of 2004, sometimes a driver excels when the car is hooked up, and when it's not, driver seems less then good, Nick has been in f1 a bit longer then Webber, more experience, he could be exceling at times with the car, it's difficult to pinpoint and access webber, he could be a trulli, trulli spent seasons being good in quali, and then had upturns in races, maybe some of that is webber, maybe not, some people are not impressed by massa, but he could do well in a decent car, hakkinen had troubles when the car wasn't right, and DC was on his pace at times in races, next year's williams may go better for webber, he won't be able to compete with nick, different teams, so he's gonna have to just do his driving, and if nick does well with bmw, then people can expect nick to be a very good driver, which i always thought he was, i wasn't surprised how he did this year, the williams at monaco, canada and nurburg went decent, webber hasn't raced at the front much, I'm prepared to give him 2006 to turn it around, minardi and jaguar haven't been cars to race for podiums for webber, the game changed this year, lets see if he adapts, leave the door open, why not. Webber needs a bit more luck, and a competitive car, the trouble he had this year was he would of looked better at monaco if williams called him in before nick, so embarrising moment, then of cource some mistakes, it all contributes to his image, but these things can change, this year it seems Nick has been very good and perfect and can't do no wrong, no pressure on him, nothing to lose, and some luck, great atmosphere to excel, so give that a few seasons, bmw won't be expected to be on the pace immediately, so it's quite likely nick will be quiet and keep to himself in 2006 until the car is competitive, williams god knows how good they will be, apart of a driver's market image is the car he has under him, Button hasn't won a race yet, but it hasn't always been his fault, but no one is rating him near kimi or alonso etc, but would they if he was at mclaren etc I'm sure Nick and Webber can be doing decent drives in the mould of Montoya, and he's at mclaren, there's not much in it between some of these drivers.


If Button is at williams next year, then that really will be a big mark webber test, break me or make me etc.

Wow, SeanValen, what was your message again ?

I didn´t quite get it...

On to the thread´s topic: it´s interesting that Frank Williams did not pick up the option on Quick Nick on September 15th. So he will get Jense ?!?

Definitely, Webber´s thunder was not stolen this year. In my opinion, he never had thunder in the first place. He is one of those drivers who go on being hyped over a certain period (sometimes years), then, in competitive circumstances (as with Heidfeld) their true potential is being revealed.
The rest is two or three more years in F1, then a silent goodbye.

[Melbourne Park]

Theissen asked Webber to go to Sauber, Webber's said no. Webber wants to stay at Williams for the long haul. I think "Stealing thunder" is true for people on internet threads, but it doesn't exist in the real world.

[MortenF1]

I haven't really looked into it, but if Webber had gotten points from those races he got punted out of, people would read the Webber/Heidfeld situation slightly different. The doubters would lean towards Webber I believe.

[Mox]

Webber who ??? :

[xype]

Originally posted by race addicted
I haven't really looked into it, but if Webber had gotten points from those races he got punted out of, people would read the Webber/Heidfeld situation slightly different. The doubters would lean towards Webber I believe.

Makes you understand why The Sun (and Bild, etc) sells so well.

[SeanValen]

Originally posted by aditya-now



Wow, SeanValen, what was your message again ?

I didn´t quite get it...

Let me refine it.


Webber deserves more time.

Originally posted by Force Ten


Hey, what's your opinion in general about punctuation'n'****?

You can get carried away by the passion of f1, and sometimes it overides the time I spend on punctuation, I'll try and improve for next time, hope you enjoyed the thread anyway.

[PassWind]

Well did Webber steal the Quick from Nick?

I really love how people say Nick is doing such a great job and Webber is doing nothing, righto consistency, Nick is consistent, well who has more scoring races?

When they have finished races Nick has been more consitently outside the points than Webber. With all those mistakes and things what gives?

Both drivers managed to complete 9 races before Nicks injury up to round 13, yet nick scored points in only 5 of those races to Webbers 7, consistent that.

Now two of Nicks podiums one should have been Marks, yet for a fisi punt and the other should have been a third in Monaco with Mark second, a real drivers track apparently.

Nicks other podium was due to attrition nothing more nothing less. Oh yeah and a 12 laps of fuel quali, right that said, take 22 points off his total for the year and remember that Mark didn't score in two of the races that make up the 22. Now who is consistent?

Right Kudos to Nick came in as a underdog and got himself a sweet deal with BMW however, he should sling MW a few thanks because due to Marks worst season in F1 in terms of personal performance Nick has just manged to keep up with him.

I will agree I have put a little right hand bias on the above but frankly I am sick of people who simply looked at the WDC total and made it up from there to talk up Nick.

I like Nick, and I guess he stole thunder as he had nothing to lose and everthing to gain, but put the two together and we talk about pure speed, Mark has certainly stolen Nick's Quick.

Mario wanted Mark to go BMW and asked him, so I guess like someone else stated those who watch the races at the races and the testing at the testing know what the real story is.

[baddog]

could have would have should have DIDNT

[MortenF1]

It's a fair stand when most, if not all of Webber's accident haven't been his fault.

[PassWind]

Which ones were his fault?

[MortenF1]

Are you asking me, Passwind? I hope not, 'cause it seems we're at the same side of the table (well almost, as I've already said that it's part of the game staying clear of trouble, so in that respect, I think Webber's got some room for improvement, even though I don't hold him responsible for most of the accidents he's been involved in).

But Europe is fair to lay at his feet, even if first-corner tangles are different to a mid-race accident with just two drivers involved.

[BMW4life]

Originally posted by SeanValen

Perception can change all the time in f1. Trulli made Alonso look lesser in the first half of 2004, sometimes a driver excels when the car is hooked up, and when it's not, driver seems less then good, Nick has been in f1 a bit longer then Webber, more experience, he could be exceling at times with the car, it's difficult to pinpoint and access webber, he could be a trulli, trulli spent seasons being good in quali, and then had upturns in races, maybe some of that is webber, maybe not, some people are not impressed by massa, but he could do well in a decent car, hakkinen had troubles when the car wasn't right, and DC was on his pace at times in races, next year's williams may go better for webber, he won't be able to compete with nick, different teams, so he's gonna have to just do his driving, and if nick does well with bmw, then people can expect nick to be a very good driver, which i always thought he was, i wasn't surprised how he did this year, the williams at monaco, canada and nurburg went decent, webber hasn't raced at the front much, I'm prepared to give him 2006 to turn it around, minardi and jaguar haven't been cars to race for podiums for webber, the game changed this year, lets see if he adapts, leave the door open, why not. Webber needs a bit more luck, and a competitive car, the trouble he had this year was he would of looked better at monaco if williams called him in before nick, so embarrising moment, then of cource some mistakes, it all contributes to his image, but these things can change, this year it seems Nick has been very good and perfect and can't do no wrong, no pressure on him, nothing to lose, and some luck, great atmosphere to excel, so give that a few seasons, bmw won't be expected to be on the pace immediately, so it's quite likely nick will be quiet and keep to himself in 2006 until the car is competitive, williams god knows how good they will be, apart of a driver's market image is the car he has under him, Button hasn't won a race yet, but it hasn't always been his fault, but no one is rating him near kimi or alonso etc, but would they if he was at mclaren etc I'm sure Nick and Webber can be doing decent drives in the mould of Montoya, and he's at mclaren, there's not much in it between some of these drivers .

:

How's about a paragraph here or there? Makes it a lot easier on our eyes!

[SeanValen]

Originally posted by BMW4life


:

How's about a paragraph here or there? Makes it a lot easier on our eyes!

I'll edit.

[baddog]

Originally posted by PassWind
Which ones were his fault?

You dont think webber has been involved in several accidents that would not have happened if he had been less aggressive?

Mind Im not saying he should be less aggressive, Im just saying be aware of the price that sometimes comes with that.

Shaun

[skinnylizard]

well Webber this year has been lacklustre. the Williams hasnt been up to par but Webber made his name on less than stellar Jag and Minardi.
His star is def not as bright because he didnt blow Heidfeld away as he rightly should have. It shows that he was never really challenged by his previous team-mates. Heidfeld has had better results and has been practically involved in zero incidents. Webber on the other hand seems to go looking for people to run into.
so Webber has to me this year come across as a one lap specialist with tunnel vision who didnt deliver. Heidfeld, someone i didnt rate at all has come across to me as a star

question is does Webber deserve his thunder to beginw with?

[Mat]

Originally posted by aditya-now
On to the thread´s topic: it´s interesting that Frank Williams did not pick up the option on Quick Nick on September 15th. So he will get Jense ?!?

apparantly if Frank had taken up the Nick option it would have greatly reduced his legal standing when it came to holding onto Button.

[peroa]

I think that Webber just sits there.

[ensign14]

They are both very good. Simple as that. Heidfeld has had a chance finally to prove it, the fact that everyone had overlooked him in recent years has made Webber look slow, but in reality they are both fine drivers.

[kodandaram]

eh ..there are so many ppl saying WEbber has not been shown up - yet the poll suggests many ppl have voted for Nick . Hmmm are any of you guys playing naughty games ...saying one thing and voting for Nick ? joking ...

[pRy]

Let's be honest, stealing Webbers thunder isn't exactly the hardest thing in the world to pull off in f1.

[MortenF1]

I'm sure you know.

[sejanus]

lol, and what team do you race for if it's so easy?

Originally posted by pRy
Let's be honest, stealing Webbers thunder isn't exactly the hardest thing in the world to pull off in f1.

[SlateGray]

Originally posted by baddog
Id say yes definitely. at the start of the season he is competing with pizzonia for the seat as a third choice to act as a backup to the much wanted webber.. at the end he is even perhaps the more looked at of the two.. the williams news story of this year has been nick not mark.

Shaun

Totally agree with baddog!

Nick has been the more complete package, perhaps not as quick in Q but a nice clean racer!(Monaco).

I am still undiceded about Webber, if he gets his racecraft sorted he will be a force to be reckoned with.

[molive]

A= Yes


but it wasnt that difficult now was it?;)

[repcobrabham]

interesting question - i can't decide!

MW and his fans certainly were expecting more success this year and the media - hungry for a driver with good quotes and photogenic features - whipped expectation up, so i guess on a superficial level it would be correct to say that the hooligan had his "thunder" stolen (ko': are you punning on the old "thunder from down under" cliche?) by low-key NH

but anyone with a half-decent knowledge and an objective perspective knows that these two drivers, while different to the point of opposite in driving styles and personalities, have a lot in common:

both have had to work their way into F1, rather than being parachuted in like certain second-rate rich kids from certain third-world countries, and as a consequence both men conduct themselves like adults rather than spoilt children;

both are perhaps just short of the talent level of KR or FA but could certainly steer an outstanding car to the championship if they were lucky enough to find themselves in it;

both are due big doses of good fortune after a shocking run of luck this year;

both have about 3 years left in F1 and might finally get the rewards due to them.

i guess what i'm saying is that these two are actually quite closely matched and therefore the closeness of their respective results makes sense; there was no thunder to steal.

[metz]

Originally posted by Melbourne Park
Theissen asked Webber to go to Sauber, Webber's said no. ....

Never heard this anywhere else.

Source?

[HoldenRT]

http://rapidshare.de...8_9_05.mp3.html

[Melbourne Park]

Originally posted by metz


Never heard this anywhere else.

Source?

Australian television channel 10 which does the F1, the interviewer had a program on this year's Spa race at Belgium last week. It was interesting on a number of areas, but one was with Williams and MW. In an interview with Mark, the interviewer said that BMW had offered him a drive. Mark smiled and and said yes, Mario had spoken with him a lot and had offered him the drive, but Mark said that he was absolutely committed to Williams. He said that he loved the environment, F1 and the world racing scene, and that he had learn't a great deal this year. He said that he thoght he had known a lot about the sport but that out of the car "you are always learning". He felt that to be really successful there were large benefits in staying with the one team and going through a development cycle. He also spoke about Renault, and how excited he was about the Renault team and what good guys they are at Renault.

He was upbeat about the Cosworth's V8 engine experience but it was a little behind and issues like the gearbox became more complex with an engine program not ready yet.

I think he's deluded about Williams but I admire his loyalty.

[man]

In all honesty, Webber has done nothing to particularly impress me during his time in F1. Heidfeld is more of a known quantity as he has been in F1 for a longer period with different teammates and in my view, Nick is a steady, reliable number 2 type driver. Mark if anything, falls slightly bellow this and certainly does not deserve a drive a drive in an established top team.

With Williams going through a transitional phase similar to perhaps 1988 when they used a non-turbo Judd engine, I think it would be wise for them to hire a raw, young lion such as Rosberg for '06 alongside Jenson.

[PassWind]

Originally posted by race addicted
Are you asking me, Passwind? I hope not, 'cause it seems we're at the same side of the table (well almost, as I've already said that it's part of the game staying clear of trouble, so in that respect, I think Webber's got some room for improvement, even though I don't hold him responsible for most of the accidents he's been involved in).

But Europe is fair to lay at his feet, even if first-corner tangles are different to a mid-race accident with just two drivers involved.

Staying clear of trouble, you are spot on sometimes it is however a fine line when you have to try and hold your great quali position with a car that has for BOTH drivers been slow to start.

I think it is his worst year in F1 regardless of points scored so yeah he has alot of improvement. First he has to come to grips with running a car with light aero in the front end when following other cars, this has been the primary reason for his little over runs earlier in the season. He also has to keep a steady head for the long runs in the race.

While he gets critiqued for getting into trouble all the time the only race I would have been really critical of is his punt of JPM, the rest were racing incidents and he was usually the victim of others involved.

I asked the question in general but also wanted to know what you thought was his fault in other words what he did negligently, and Europe was the one race where I would indeed say he stuffed it completely.

[PassWind]

Originally posted by baddog


You dont think webber has been involved in several accidents that would not have happened if he had been less aggressive?

Mind Im not saying he should be less aggressive, Im just saying be aware of the price that sometimes comes with that.

Shaun

If one (JPM) is several then sue me, if you would like to add his clash with MS to the list then I suggest you ask Nick what it is like to pass MS. (this is the only other instance where I think Mark could've waited)

I don't how getting shunted by fisi is anything to do with Marks aggressive nature.

If you asked a racing expert this question, right you have two guys one is on the racing line and going for the corner holding the outside line which is the rubbered line, the other is on the inside marbles has the other car on the racing line on his outside and has had to use speed differential to get up along side for the inside pass and brakes late.

Which of these two drivers is being aggressive, and if they crash which driver was over aggressive?

The other instances were a result of other drivers mistakes so lets not just assume that bad luck is over aggressive.

Maybe Mark just shouldn't trust those other drivers around him like Fisi and Sato.