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The Derrington-Francis ATS


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#1 ian senior

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 08:07

Yes, the car that appeared at Monza in 1964, driven by Mario Cabral.

Any idea what happened to it - is it still around somewhere? 8W has a piece on the car (and its driver) but offers no news on what happened to it after its one and only race appearance.

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#2 jph

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 08:13

It was at Goodwood last weekend - owned now by Philip Walker, but N/C in the Glover Trophy race for which it was entered (appeared in practice however, and possibly in the first part of that race, before it had to be stopped).

#3 Macca

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 09:22

Posted Image

In practise on Friday

Paul M

#4 Gary C

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Posted 21 September 2005 - 11:07

it's a lovely little car, too.

#5 Mike Lawrence

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Posted 20 October 2005 - 01:29

I have spoken to both Rob Walker and Stirling Moss about Alf Francis. What I got was that he was a top class mechanic, when mechanics had to do things (when was a welding kit last seen in an F1 pitlane?)

Rob allowed Alf to design and build the walker-Climax because he felt he owed it to him. Moss gave it a good shakedown and didn't want to race it.

Stirling once told me that Alf was like a good PA who thinks they can do the boss's job so they set up on their own and fail.

Alf Francis was not the only one at the time. People turned to good mechanics because there was not then a motor racing industry with design studios and so on. For the past quarter of a century it has been possible to have a racing car built with a telephone and a line of credit. That would not be much fun, the lunches are the fun, but it has been possible.

Back in the 1950s and early 1960s people like Alf Francis, Bernie Rodger and Gordon Bedson were taken seriously as racing car designers because there were no others..

#6 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 11 February 2007 - 17:00

Anyone know how to get hold of son Stuart Derrington ?

#7 Racer.Demon

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Posted 13 February 2007 - 10:52

Bjørn, you have a PM.

#8 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 14 February 2007 - 20:30

Motor magazine June 17 1972 show a Derrington transporter. Anyone who can send me a copy of that picture (and story if there is one).

Further I have been told that this projects transportation was organized by Alf Francis .Any idea how or with what ? ( no Derrington car was used)

#9 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 08:39

In MOTOR magazine 17/6 1972 (LM mag.) is an obituary plus a picture of a transporter on Vic :

Will any of you share acces (if any) to this info ?

#10 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 25 February 2007 - 20:00

:wave: INFO :If you want to know about A.T.S. before Derrington -Francis , Modena Racing Memorys by Graham Gauld gives an interesting story as well as a lot on Ferrari , Maserati etc. with many fine pictures from 57-63!

Please also look again at the above post!

#11 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 03 May 2009 - 06:59

Please have a look at the last posts for help ?

#12 Damien Duigan

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 00:01

G'day all,

Reviving an old topic, I've been trying to untangle just how many ATS and/or Derrington-Francis cars remain in existence - not easy from far off Australia but hopefully TNF is the place and this thread seems like an excellent place to start.

Conventional wisdom has it that two cars were constructed by ATS in 1963 and raced by Hill (chassis 100-01) and Baghetti (chassis 100-2).

What appears to have been Baghetti's 100-02 then goes to Vic Derrington & Alf Francis in 1964, who use the engine in their newly constructed Derrington-Francis spaceframe chassis - which also goes by the adopted number 100-02 .

This means we have a total of three cars built so far.

Jumping forward a bit, one of the 1963 ATS ended up in the Donington Collection by 1970 - unfortunately my copy of Doug Nye's book on the collection is miles away in storage, but can anyone confirm this was 100-01?

Wheatcroft was offering his ATS for sale in the mid-1990s and I think it also went through one of the Brooks Goodwood auctions, in 1999, ending up with Philip Walker for whom it was rebuilt by Andy Wolfe and Hall & Hall. Wolfe raced the car at Goodwood in several Revivals.

Meanwhile, Walker was also reported in C&SC as buying a second ATS chassis (presumably the leftovers of the 1963 100-02) and the Derrington-Francis. The D-F also ran at Goodwood and was last heard of by me in mid-2006 when offered via Flavien Marcais' Automobiles Historiques Ltd. - any idea where it might have gone since?

Now to confuse the issue a bit, American Bruce Shipman entered an ATS in the 2002 Goodwood Revival for Jason Wright (said to be the ex-Donington car), where it raced alongside Andy Wolfe in a similar car.

And most recently, another American collector of Italian cars based in Connecticut has sent what I believe is 100-01 across to Goodwood again, racing in the 2008 Revival with Wright at the wheel.

This all gets a bit confusing but would appreciate any help from TNF readers to unmuddy the ATS waters!

Cheers, Damien




#13 Ted Walker

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 07:48

I think we are talking about the ATS and the Derrington Francis both of which were owned by PhilipWalker at the same time. I think I am correct in saying that he also has (or had) parts of the third car and Lots of engines as well.

#14 Miles Fenton

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 16:07



I worked for Derrington in 1959 and 2960.
The only transporter I recall was the clunky old Ford one-ton which I drove to all the races as a portable workshop service.

Vic Derrington wouldn't spring for a proper dual SU fuel pump so we usually ended up chucking the engine cover in the back, hanging a jerry can of petrol from the bulkhead behind the seats and connecting a sort of enema tube from it to the carburettor.
The resulting fumes and noise I leave to your imagination.

#15 Miles Fenton

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 16:10

I wanted to post a photo of Derrington's truck.
I have the image on Image shack ready to post.
Wasted an hour.
Image shack and your pages will NOT connect.
How do you other posters DO it?

#16 Paul Taylor

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 16:21

I wanted to post a photo of Derrington's truck.
I have the image on Image shack ready to post.
Wasted an hour.
Image shack and your pages will NOT connect.
How do you other posters DO it?


When you've uploaded to Imageshack, scroll down (on the Imageshack website) and find the white box that has the words "Hotlink for forums (1)" to the right of it. Then copy and paste that text into a new post.

Edited by Paul Taylor, 16 September 2009 - 16:21.


#17 bradbury west

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 19:27

Try thisas an alternative. I gave up with Imageshack when things changed. It also allows multiple postings
http://www.postimage.org/
Roger Lund

#18 Sharman

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 20:34

Apropos of absolutely bloody nothing at all. Tony Goodwin reminded me of the hard top Fibrepair offered for the Lotus 7(he says he must have bought the only one sold). The idea was to be able to run a 7 in GT events, I was on the stand at the Racing Car Show at the Horticultural Hall when a young lad came up to me and said
"My dad says that you can't run that in GTs it's too narrow in the cockpit"
"Who's your Dad?"
"Vic Derrington"
So we measured it. And it was 1/2" too narow.

#19 bradbury west

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Posted 16 September 2009 - 20:46

Several were used in racing, one car being entered as the Fibrepair GT, ( ah the joys of old Autosports and programmes) their biggest problem being IIRC that they had a perspex screen, not glass so were hors de combat for road use
Roger Lund

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#20 Sharman

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 07:59

Several were used in racing, one car being entered as the Fibrepair GT, ( ah the joys of old Autosports and programmes) their biggest problem being IIRC that they had a perspex screen, not glass so were hors de combat for road use
Roger Lund

Roger
I should have said FIA GTs
John

#21 Rob Ryder

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 18:46

Posted on behaf of Miles Fenton

Posted Image

#22 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 17 September 2009 - 19:10

The above is referring to post 14 & 15. As far as I can see it is a Fordson 7V. Many thanks to Miles and Rob.

Edited by Bjørn Kjer, 28 October 2009 - 12:47.


#23 Derrington

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 03:53

Anyone know how to get hold of son Stuart Derrington ?

Hi Bjorn, It is very interesting to read all of these posts about my Grandfather. Please let me know if you would like to get in contact with my father.

All the best,

Christian

#24 RJE

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 08:18

Hi Bjorn, It is very interesting to read all of these posts about my Grandfather. Please let me know if you would like to get in contact with my father.

All the best,

Christian

Hello Derrington

I certainly would like to touch bases with your father, and ask him how he is getting on and perhaps renew family ties.

Your grandfather and my mother were cousins and I worked for VWD in the sixties. Your father used to come and stay with my parents at times in Kent. I frequently went with Vic to race meetings in the old mobile workshop, his driving of which would scare the life out of me.

#25 Sharman

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 13:52

Hi Bjorn, It is very interesting to read all of these posts about my Grandfather. Please let me know if you would like to get in contact with my father.

All the best,

Christian

Hi
I presume your Dad was the young lad referred to in Post 18

#26 teegeefla

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 16:15

Does anyone have any details/photos of the car prior to and after Dan Gurney's testing crash in 1964? What happened, where, etc.

#27 bradbury west

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Posted 21 October 2010 - 17:40

In MOTOR magazine 17/6 1972 (LM mag.) is an obituary plus a picture of a transporter on Vic :

Will any of you share acces (if any) to this info ?



Bump

And in Autocar, I assume, as I have not comre across it in my recent trawl through Autosports, there was an article on Vic and his converted coach, where the old single carb was replaced on a new manifold with 3, poss 2" SU carbs and IIRC some head work. The fuel usage did not improve but journey times certainly did...

Can anyone help with this article?
Roger Lund

PS Has anyone a set of Autosport Index sheets from the bound volumes?. I would like '63 to 73 inclusive plus a couple of half years in the 50s.

Edited by bradbury west, 25 March 2012 - 18:40.


#28 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 22:10

Hi,

I have recieved a query from someone wanted to establish what the colour scheme of the Derrington-Francis was;

have completed a drawing of the Derrington Francis driven by Cabral at Monza in 1964. I have searched the internet and can only find one Band W photograph of the car. I need to know the colour. At first I thought it must be red (being bits of ATS) and then looking at the picture the numbers on the side are in white and those on the nose appear black. This seems to indiacate the car was in two colours. Do you have any suggestions as to who may remmber or know? I tried Mike Lawrences books and several other to no avail. Help

Is the photo Rob posted on behalf of Miles a Derrington in front of the transporter, because that's not red at all?

Can anyone help?

#29 David McKinney

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Posted 24 March 2012 - 22:39

Is the photo Rob posted on behalf of Miles a Derrington in front of the transporter, because that's not red at all?

Can anyone help?

Certainly. It's a 1959 Cooper T51 :)

The Derrington-Francis is red these days, which might not mean anything, except that the owner has been in contact with Cabral. Mind you, he could have ignored what he was told and painted in ATS red anyway...


#30 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 25 March 2012 - 15:10

There is nothing that indicate a colour different than red IMO. I have no genuine proof however , but the idea of perhaps a multicoloured scheme because of the no. in black at the front does not move me , I believe it was more of a "smart" thing as the white circle was there too ! I have collected all I could on the DF ATS and would exchange pictures and infos if wanted.
(that goes for ATS also).Vic Derringtons transporter referred to has nothing to do with the the DF ATS. All transports regarding the DF ATS was in the hands of Alf Francis in Italy , Vic's car (cars) were only containing his services at races in Britain.

Edited by Bjorn Kjer, 25 March 2012 - 15:14.


#31 Bjorn Kjer

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Posted 27 March 2012 - 17:27

There is nothing that indicate a colour different than red IMO. I have no genuine proof however , but the idea of perhaps a multicoloured scheme because of the no. in black at the front does not move me , I believe it was more of a "smart" thing as the white circle was there too ! I have collected all I could on the DF ATS and would exchange pictures and infos if wanted.
(that goes for ATS also).Vic Derringtons transporter referred to has nothing to do with the the DF ATS. All transports regarding the DF ATS was in the hands of Alf Francis in Italy , Vic's car (cars) were only containing his services at races in Britain.



Any comments or infos to post 9, 27., 28 ???

#32 Pat Clarke

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Posted 28 March 2012 - 12:31

it's a lovely little car, too.


Gary,

It looks a lot nicer now than it did in it's day!

Pat

#33 Derrington

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Posted 30 June 2020 - 20:36

Hi
I presume your Dad was the young lad referred to in Post 18

 

It sounds like it! 



#34 bradbury west

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Posted 30 June 2020 - 23:02

In MOTOR magazine 17/6 1972 (LM mag.) is an obituary plus a picture of a transporter on Vic


Did we ever trace a copy of this obituary and picture?
Does anyone have access to period MOTOR magazines, please?
Roger Lund

#35 Derrington

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Posted 01 July 2020 - 02:32

My father maintains a Facebook page for V W Derrington

 

https://www.facebook...193723137341602

 

The following link will take you to an article on the Derrington Francis ATS

 

https://www.facebook...88557397858159/

 

I hope this helps some of you. 

Cheers, 

Christian