97 replies to this topic

[GasedX19]

Hi folks,

new here, what a great forum, I've been glued to my computer for two days! Thanks also to the forum admins for keeping it all going.

I'm going to ask for a recommendation for some good books or authoritative online resources–some of the fundamental technical stuff is going over my head

This made me think that a Sticky like the Tech Papers PDFs but called Tech Books would be a great resource. Maybe some of the experts on the forum could include a reviews on recommended readings? I know this can suck up admins time but it would be a great resource and contribute to improving education. Hope I'm not being too forward suggesting this being a newbie here

I know there are lots of books/resources out there on lots of different areas of automotive engineering but perhaps there could be consensus on the top dozen must read arranged in categories.

Specifically I'm after a good modern book or links to online resources on the fundamentals of induction-port physics/engineering, cam timing and valves, combustion & fuel principles. I'm interested in building an engine (4S, 4cyl, LPG) and would like to better know what to do and what not to do before getting too excited.

Is 21st Century Performance by Julian Edgar a good read?

Cheers

David
Sydney
Australia

[GasedX19]

Errrm,

before it's said, yes I saw Desmo's post below "Google Print: 1st Class Online Resource" but was thinking of of a more formal Sticky section with reviews.

David

[shaun979]

If you do a search, I think you will find that book lists have been discussed before. I agree with you that a single compiled and stickied list that is continually updated would be great though.

[Greg Locock]

Re JE, probably. He's a journalist. His most famous article was in Silicon Chip entitled "How to Hold a Garage Sale", complete with photos.

I'd say if you are designing an engine from scratch the Heywood is the best bet, as that is his approach. However, he is more into diesels and things than little engines.

[GasedX19]

Thanks Greg,

Internal Combustion Engine Fundamentals, John B Haywood, McGraw Hill
ISBN 0071004998 (Several Editions)

Atlasf1 Member Comment:

"...if you are designing an engine from scratch the Heywood is the best bet...he is more into diesels and things than little engines" - Greg Locock

Got any more to add Greg?

Amazon: http://www.amazon.co...=books&n=507846

A similar thread on recommended reading ay another place:

http://www.daewootec...872d136a479f8ea


David

[Ben]

The following would be my book suggestions based on many good and less good purchases. I can't comment on engine books as I've never bought one.

Online, the most technically profficient communities are FSAE and D-Sports

Ben

Aerodynamics:

Designing for Speed: New Directions in Race Car Aerodynamics – Joe Katz
Competition Car Downforce – Simon McBeath

Vehicle Dynamics, Tyres and Suspension:

The Multibody Systems Approach to Vehicle Dynamics – Mike Blundell and Damian Harty
Race Car Vehicle Dynamics – William F. and Douglas L. Milliken
The Racing and High Performance Tire – Paul Haney
The Shock Absorber Handbook – John Dixon

Materials and Mechanical Design:

Prepare to Win – Carroll Smith
Engineer to Win – Carroll Smith

General:

Ferrari Formula 1: Under the Skin of the Championship-Winning F1-2000 – Peter Wright
F1 Technology – Peter Wright
The Unfair Advantage – Mark Donohue with Paul van Valkenburgh

[Lukin]

I wouldn't neglect the good beginners books we all looked at (and I still look at most days). If nothing else they are a good reminder of the basics I tend to overlook at times.

Race Car Engineering and Mechanics: Paul van Valkenburgh
Tune to Win : Carrol Smith
Physics of Racing series is another good reference

Also, Data Power by Buddy Fey is a good data book.

[GasedX19]

Cool,

when making a reference it's useful to include year, edition, publisher, ISBN, maybe even cost and URLs for online resources.

Beyond this it's interesting to hear what you liked and disliked, what impressed you and why, what the strengths and weaknesses of the book are e.g., theory vs practical, diagrams, photos, references

We're getting there...


David

[Ben]

Originally posted by Lukin
I wouldn't neglect the good beginners books we all looked at (and I still look at most days). If nothing else they are a good reminder of the basics I tend to overlook at times.

Race Car Engineering and Mechanics: Paul van Valkenburgh
Tune to Win : Carrol Smith
Physics of Racing series is another good reference

Also, Data Power by Buddy Fey is a good data book.

Good point Jason.

However I would add some caveats:

Tune to win is good, but ignore any bits of it that talk about the mass centroid axis and equal front and rear roll moments. That causes so many more problems later on.

As for a beginners book to avoid - Competition Car Suspension by Staniforth.

Ben

[McGuire]

I have pimped this book here before, but I really like Engines: An Introduction, by John L. Lumley. The title is totally misleading; it's pretty hardcore. The tone and topics are a bit unusual... it's almost conversational. Lumley may not be Hemingway but the text is very accessible. Which is even more unusual in that the book was originally intended as a companion to the Stanford ESP (Engine Simulation Program). But for some reason the Border's book chain in the USA picked it up for distribution and you can often find it in stock there. Lumley's specialty is fluid dynamics but interestingly, he does not really focus there. To me the book is fresh and unconventional.

Meanwhile, the standard text on intake and exhaust development in practice has yet to be written. Vizard's books are pretty decent as far as they go, but... Perhaps this is another of those areas where the experts are not forthcoming. Half don't want to reveal all they know; the other half all they don't know.

There are plenty of books I can recommend but I am not going to fuss with ISBN numbers and all that. With Amazon, alibris and all the other search resources available, is there any need for that?

[McGuire]

Another wonderful book: Chassis Design: Priniciples and Analysis, based on previously unpublished technical notes by Maurice Olley.

Long title, great book. What happened here is the Millikens compiled and organized all of Olley's technical notes along with some of his personal memiors. If you want to understand chassis dynamics as a science, I can imagine no better way than to go back to the guy who, more than any other one person, invented it and watch him as he puts it together, piece by piece from scratch. You can buy it at the SAE bookstore.

[GasedX19]

Mr McGuire,

thanks for your comments. You don't get this from Amazon, at least not from sources that you can get back to

Title, Author, Pulisher, Year and preferably Edition are sufficient, for online a URL thanks, just makes it that bit easier than friggin around with searching for the details to put a decent list (bibliography) together. Ok ISBN a bit OTT-just means you can give counter staff at the book shop a number rather than suffer their search attempts

David

[shaun979]

Originally posted by Lukin
Also, Data Power by Buddy Fey is a good data book.

Is this book still in print? Have long wanted to buy it but back then it was out of print. If you now have what it teaches all stored in your mind would you be interested in selling yours?

[fiat124]

A good book for F1 technology beginners (like me) is:

"The Chariot Makers" by Steve Matchett - about assembling the perfect F1 car. He also authored "The Mechanics Tale", another book about F1. Steve is a former F1 mechanic turned TV broadcaster on Speed TV I think.

[DOHCPower]

Has anyone heard anything about this?

http://www.amazon.co...=books&n=507846

[shaun979]

I too am wondering if what Ian Bamsey writes in that book is basically a compilation of what he's written in the past, or information that has been available from other sources for a while now.

[DOHCPower]

Well, I'll let everyone know, i just ordered a copy! $130 U.S. dollars later... .

[mat1]

Originally posted by Ben




As for a beginners book to avoid - Competition Car Suspension by Staniforth.

Ben

Hi Ben,

What do you mean here? Is this book to be avoided by beginners, or is it to be avoided anyway? If so, why?

mat1

[Ross Stonefeld]

Wonderful. I picked that one up in a regular bookstore because it caught my eye in amongst all the 'mainstream' books

[Ben]

Originally posted by mat1


Hi Ben,

What do you mean here? Is this book to be avoided by beginners, or is it to be avoided anyway? If so, why?

mat1

I think avoid full stop. I haven't read a recent edition, but it looks like it's the same except for the damping chapter.

A few years ago Martin Ogilvie wrote a letter to Race Tech about not representing Ackermann geometry with a single number. He pointed out that obviously the ratio of left and right steer angles w.r.t average steer angle was nonlinear. Staniforth's reply just didn't grasp this point at all and made me doubt his level of engineering knowledge.

I don't think Staniforth knows enough about the fundamental engineering to write authoratively about it.

Ben

[mat1]

I see what you mean. Thanks.

I have seen the book, and it seemed a little bit "glossy" to me: nice photographs, interviews with for instance Tony Southgate, maybe a little short on content.

So I have to read Milleken, I suppose.

mat1

[Greg Locock]

Well, both the Milliken books are easy reads, RCVD especially so if you skim the aero. Copies of these books have a half life of two years, my RCVD is kept locked in my desk. There's a book of problems that comes with RCVD, I don't think I've got any of them right so far, first time.

If you want a bit more maths, and some interesting curves, then Tires, Suspension and Handling by John C. Dixon (1996) is a fine reference. Tom Gillespies Vehicle Dynamics book is probably essential if you actually want to understand coordinate systems and dynamics, but is a bit lacking in interesting data.

If you are into production cars then The Automotive Chassis: Engineering Principles
by Jornsen Reimpell, Helmut Stoll, better known as Ren and Stimpy, is pretty good, it gives practically important details that the other two ignore (eg, how much turning circle do you lose if you don't have 100% Ackerman?).

Also, get the Bosch Blue Book (Automotive Handbook). Again, these tend to walk. There's also a red book on electrics, handy if you need to know all the different types of starter motor windings, but a bit of an anorak book if you don't.

[Canuck]

At the risk of displaying my ignorance yet again...

Is there no way to examine SAE papers before you buy them? I've bought a couple in the last few days and at $12 for 12 pages of information almost entirley unrelated to the title, I'm not a happy chappy. I have no problem paying for stuff I want to have, but this buying-blind stinks.

[desmo]

Many university libraries have SAE papers either as hard copy or on CD. You might be able to view them there.

[Greg Locock]

Did you read the abstracts? I'm pretty sure you can do that on-line for free.

However, you are right, the quality of SAE papers has dropped in the last 10 years.

[Ben]

Originally posted by Greg Locock
Did you read the abstracts? I'm pretty sure you can do that on-line for free.

However, you are right, the quality of SAE papers has dropped in the last 10 years.

If you expect to buy an SAE paper learn something and then apply it directly you'll be disappointed. On too many occassions I've bought a paper that's simply an advert for a company or the researcher.

I'm not sure about elsewhere, but the approach in England is to find a set of compiled SAE papers that contain the paper you're interested in (the Motorsport Engineering Conferences (MSEC) are good) then go to your local lending library and ask for an intra-library loan. The book will then be sourced from a University library and delivered. Step two is then to find a photocopier :-)

Ben

[Greg Locock]

Has anybody read "The Science of F1 Design: Expert analysis of the anatomy of the moderen Grand Prix car" by David Tremayne ?

Since he's a journo I'm kind of hoping he interviews a few experts.

Which of the two Wright books is the most technical?

[NRoshier]

JE's 21st Century Performance is used locally by some high schools as a year 10 text book for Auto...which gives you an idea of its level. There seems to some parrallels to Vizards work.

[daFt]

Originally posted by Greg Locock
Has anybody read "The Science of F1 Design: Expert analysis of the anatomy of the moderen Grand Prix car" by David Tremayne ?

Since he's a journo I'm kind of hoping he interviews a few experts.

Which of the two Wright books is the most technical?

The Tremayne book, as NRoshier said, isn't that technical. A lot of ideas and concepts are named but nothing is explained in it. The best part I though were the photos, a lot of stuff I hadn't seen before.

As for Wright's books, I think the Ferrari book is more technical, off the top of my head, but I read it more recently than other book. Of course it's also more recent so it'll be more up to date and relevant than F1 Technology. Both are quite good though and worth reading if you'd like a little more indepth knowledge of F1 than what you can find on the net.

[GPLEagle]

I found the "Physics of Racing Series" a good introduction, pretty basic start and gradually a bit more advanced.
http://www.miata.net/sport/Physics/

[AndrewD]

Couldnt see this one,

Engines, An Introduction. by J. Lumley

Good introduction to engines

[Lukin]

I recently bought this book:

Analysis Techniques for Racecar Data Acquisition

Overall it's a pretty good book for those who work, or want to, with a data acquisition system though is geared mostly towards semi to full professional motorsport (based on the sensors/software they require and analysis techniques they use). It has a lot of examples and does incorporate a bit of vehicle dynamics (frequency analysis for suspension, kinematics, steady state). Most of the main areas are covered and covered with more detail and scope than any other book available. The suspension, roll, steering sections are very well done.

It looks at analysis the driver (in terms of braking, steering, corner line and throttle) but it probably lacks a little in comparing two drivers or outings (which, in reality, is one of the most important aspects of race engineering).

It probably needed more attention to the 'time gain/loss' and interpretting the basic channels (speed, steering, brake, throttle, corner radius) for when your looking at your driver compared to a teammate, or for when your making changes and evaluating the effect on the performance. No matter how many years you've been working with a driver, 70% of your time is still spent looking at gain/loss and 5 basic channels.

Other than that, very happy with the book.

[RDV]

Ditto, can recommend also, some typos on equations though, but easily spotted.
The sensor range and drift section is very useful, usually neglected.

[Greg Locock]

"Unfair Advantage" is excellent, thanks. Not many technical hints, but a great description of how it feels. I like his story of the car that did not respond to front a/r bar for understeer, that's what I've been doing for two weeks.

Katz: Race Car Aerodynamics, Designing for Speed, has enough aero theory, and graphs that apply to cars, to keep you confused for years.

[murpia]

I very much like 'The Multibody Systems Approach to Vehicle Dynamics' by Blundell and Harty.

Contains a lot of 'classical' analysis as well as multibody systems and has a good section on tyres. Sprinkled through the text are a fair few pearls of wisdom - it's the kind of book that's worth creating your own personal index for.

Regards, Ian

[gary76]

Two books I have found very informative are titled "The Racing Motorcycle" Vols. 1 and 2 by John Bradley.
Although 'sickle' based they share the same basic engineering fundamentals as cars. Excellent value.

[britishtrident]

Originally posted by Ben


I think avoid full stop. I haven't read a recent edition, but it looks like it's the same except for the damping chapter.

A few years ago Martin Ogilvie wrote a letter to Race Tech about not representing Ackermann geometry with a single number. He pointed out that obviously the ratio of left and right steer angles w.r.t average steer angle was nonlinear. Staniforth's reply just didn't grasp this point at all and made me doubt his level of engineering knowledge.

I don't think Staniforth knows enough about the fundamental engineering to write authoratively about it.

Ben

It annoys me the way every automotive chassis engineering book ignores the fact that classical ackerman geometry is affected by the use of rack & pinnion steering.
Although I found Stanforth books informative I got my grounding from Fred Phun's "How to Make your Car Handle"

[britishtrident]

The clasic engine text book although well out of date now but still essential reading is "The High Speed Internal Combustion Engine" by Sir Harry Ricardo

[taikyu]

shd be stickied!

[Lukin]

Has anyone read the Ross Bentley series of driving books? I'm mostly thinking of the 4th edition, 'Engineering the Driver'

http://www.amazon.co...r/dp/0760321604

[NRoshier]

Originally posted by Greg Locock
"Unfair Advantage" is excellent, thanks. Not many technical hints, but a great description of how it feels. I like his story of the car that did not respond to front a/r bar for understeer, that's what I've been doing for two weeks.

Katz: Race Car Aerodynamics, Designing for Speed, has enough aero theory, and graphs that apply to cars, to keep you confused for years.

Why confused Greg? I quite liked it.
Now I have been making some carbon/FG wings I quite like McBeaths Competition Downforce book, though it is far too vague in some areas.
WRT Staniforth, he is after all a journalist and not an engineer...I know full well the feeling that the details are there but I do not understand them...this is why we need engineers, to provide detail and clarity to the fuzzy headed word benders.

[Ben]

Originally posted by NRoshier


Why confused Greg? I quite liked it.
Now I have been making some carbon/FG wings I quite like McBeaths Competition Downforce book, though it is far too vague in some areas.
WRT Staniforth, he is after all a journalist and not an engineer...I know full well the feeling that the details are there but I do not understand them...this is why we need engineers, to provide detail and clarity to the fuzzy headed word benders.

I think that sums up Staniforth brilliantly. He's a lovely guy, but just not qualified. There is a lot of confusion because people like him write books that inadvertently mystify things that are really quite simple.

Ben

[NRoshier]

Well I must admit that I was also ascribing the same description to myself (as I am sure Greg would agree), though I make no claims to being a proper journalist either.

[Canuck]

Originally posted by DOHCPower
Has anyone heard anything about this?

http://www.amazon.co...=books&n=507846

Well, I'll let everyone know, i just ordered a copy! $130 U.S. dollars later... .

Verdict?

[Deepak]

Any opinions on,

"Theory of Ground Vehicles by Wong"?

I find a lot of professors using this as reference for vehicle dynamics.

OT: Could this be stickied?

[Slow M]

Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook,
Carroll Smith,
ISBN 0-87938-406-9

As I have a love affair with paper, I also enjoy keeping the "Skybolt AN-MS-NAS FASTENERS" around.

Richard Finch's Performance Welding is a good resource for mediocre welders like me.
ISBN 0-7603-0393-2

[IrishMariner]

Originally posted by Slow M
Nuts, Bolts, Fasteners and Plumbing Handbook,
Carroll Smith,
ISBN 0-87938-406-9

As I have a love affair with paper, I also enjoy keeping the "Skybolt AN-MS-NAS FASTENERS" around.

Richard Finch's Performance Welding is a good resource for mediocre welders like me.
ISBN 0-7603-0393-2

Another good hardware reference book/CD to buy is the handbook produces by a US aircraft parts supplier called General Aircraft Hardware. It's basically a compilation of the PDF's that are on the left side of their site.

[Deepak]

The Racing and High Performance Tire – Paul Haney

This one seems out of stock everywhere! I don't even see it listed on SAE.

Anyone know where I could find one?

[Deepak]

Anyone please?

I looked for it on Amazon & tons of other online book store and they all say 'Out-of-stock'.

SAE itself does not show it on their store!!!

[Mark A]

A few interesting books I have on my bookshelf that haven't been mentioned so far.


Handling & Roadholding - Car suspension at work by Jeffrey Daniels
Good book at pointing out the basics for the beginner.



Road Vehicle Suspensions by Wolfgang Matschinsky
Quite a intense book on kinematics but very useful in my experience.


An interesting little oddity that I was pointed towards.
Design of Racing Sports Cars by Colin Campbell

Quite interesting to read (it was written in the days of the Porsche 917 and Appendix 1 is all about this great car)