191 replies to this topic

[aditya-now]

With Rosberg having won the GP 2 season against a long dominant Kovalainen and Piquet jr. being triumphant in the first A 1 races, who do you think will be the first of those three to claim the WDC crown ?

In my humble opinion all the three have the potential, if not all three will eventually become World Champions of F1.

My guess was always that it would be Heikki first, but looking at the number of Poles and Fastest Laps that Nico gained this season as well as the fact that Heikki Kovalainen mostly won Saturday races (4) and only one Sunday race, one can not be so sure any more.

Your expert opinions, please.

[kismet]

Aren't we getting a bit ahead of ourselves here?

Anyway, out of spite, I vote that none of them will ever be WDC.

[angst]

How much difference just a single year makes. Last year Liuzzi was going to storm the world, parting all before him - and yet 12 months later it is three drivers without a single F1 race to their name that are the next WDC - and not one mention of poor Vitantonio.

Firstly they will have to get an F1 drive. If they can do that then they might have a chance, one day, to compete for the WDC. That's after they've scored their first points, first podiums and first wins. None of these are easy to come by. Still, they should make the most of it while they are still 'fashionable'.

[jokuvaan]

Its all about being in the right place in the right time.
Heikki will be closest in the short team being tied into Renault organization but in the long term its impossible to say who gets lucky.

[John_T]

Last year Liuzzi won the F3000 title. He won 7 races and had 9 pole position, all that in 10 races. He holds the joint all-time record for F3000 wins along with Montoya and Heidfeld. I remember reading headlines saying Liuzzi would replace Schumacher when he retires. Apparently Jean Todt was very impressed by this guy and wanted to sign him as a 3rd driver and then as a race driver.

Surely Massa was higher on Jean Todt's list but its not impossible we see Liuzzi driving for the red team in the future. He will have to impress next season with RBR or Red Bull Minardi. He can be WDC material you never know.

Rosberg, Kovalainen, Piquet... WDC material? For now..yes I think so. Sure they were very good in GP2 and Piquet in A1GP but in F1 sometimes they don't live up at their expectations. Time will tell...

[aditya-now]

An interesting thing with Liuzzi.

Yes, he has all the records (in F3000) saying the right things for him but somehow I have the gut feeling that the other three young gentlemen mentioned above will arrive "there" earlier, if, if, if Vitantonio arrives "there" at all (being a genuine WDC contender).

It could well be that Liuzzi will get stuck in Red Bull´s talent factory. It seems that Mr. Mateschitz is using young drivers as commercial assets like not even Mr. Briatore before him.
Time will tell if his rookies will ever make it to the top or get stuck in the Red Bull publicity machine.

[Mauseri]

More appropriate question would be who of them will get in F1. Every year junior formulas produce new champions who are labelled certain future F1 champions. But F1 has much wider generation of drivers and all junior champions have no place or no talent to be there, and someone with money take the show places. Tough luck. Only few of them get to show in F1 and only few of them turn out to be F1 champions if they accidentally hit or purely earn the right car.

[scheivlak]

To me, all three are potential multi GP winners. Nico is the most talented, but you just have to land in the right car at the right moment to become a WDC.

[Slow_Hands]

they are all very very good drivers and all have have HEAPS of potential but lets face it, rosberg won gp2 because he had easily the best car, piquet won A1 because he had easily the best car (unsurprisingly run by ASM who also dominate f3 and gp2 with their teams), and very little talent of his calabre behind him......

kovalainen on the other hand has long been up there and i dont think he will fall down the same hole countless other 'young hopefuls' have done. im not saying that piquet and rosberg will get stopped in their tracks i just think kovalainen is breaking through with just the right amount of experience/talent/momentum.

and lets not just concentrate on these guys because the likes of carroll, hamilton, speed, pantano, rossiter, montagney, luizzi etc etc etc etc can all call themseleves better than those 3 and you wouldnt be able to argue it until you shape them up in equal machinery.

[santori]

I say Piquet gets picked up by BMW (his father is BMW's only champion) and is champion within five years. All three seem to have the potential, as does Adam Carroll.

[wildmind]

Hmm, I reckon we're talking about a minimum of 3 to 5 years time for this personally as I can't see any of them storming into F1 and winning in their maiden season!

I'd be surprised if any got a race drive in 2006 - Rosberg at a push but I'm not sure there and I'm not sure any of them are really ready for F1 yet.

2007 - if they get a race seat - will be a year of learning and adjustment. Getting used to F1 racing and the new circuits (as well as the numerous rule changes)

2008 - the first year they COULD win if they are truly great drivers... but I'm not sure (yet) that any of them have that.

Personally I voted Heikki as Rosberg just grates on me a little. Piquet Jr came across as a Prima Donna when I saw him in British F3 in several races (he was rude, arrogant and didn't actually achieve that much when we were watching him)... Hekki however seems a bit more relaxed and fun.

[ViMaMo]

How about seeing them get into F1 and seeing a few races.

[carbonfibre]

Indeed i think this is a bit early too say. Although i think all off them will have a future in Formula 1. Rosberg already next season i think at Williams.

[Dolph]

Originally posted by vivian
How about seeing them get into F1 and seeing a few races.

yes, we can do that. But it does not prevent us from dong this... If u don't want you don't have to play

[Dudley]

Rosberg maybe, Kovalinen an outside bet.

But Piquet? He took 3 years in F3 to win anything much, has been majorly dissapointing in GP2 this year and while he was good in A1GP, consider the competition.

He was barely actually quicker than Alex Yoong who moved from 13th to 5th in that feature race.

[TT6]

Rosberg and Kovalainen are F1 material, no doubt about it. It's a far from being WDC material and there's no way of telling it without them racing in F1 with good cars.

Piquet doesn't seem to me like F1 material yet, based on his performance in GP2. He needs another season there. And it's time to start impressing.

[santori]

Originally posted by Dudley

But Piquet? He took 3 years in F3 to win anything much, has been majorly dissapointing in GP2 this year and while he was good in A1GP, consider the competition.

He was barely actually quicker than Alex Yoong who moved from 13th to 5th in that feature race.

I rate Piquet very highly. He raced successfully in South America, then moved to the British championship, winning regularly in his first season (and being picked by Autosport as their joint driver of the year with champion Alan Van der Merwe), then winning the championship in his second.
GP2 has been difficult for him but some of that is down to the team's problems (just as some of his success in A1 is down to that team's performance). The competition in A1 included Premat, Jani, and Speed, all of whom finished ahead of him in GP2 but were nowhere near him in A1.
And I do think he was excellent in A1. Unflustered by his pit problems, he overtook Will Power , quickly established a gap, and then carefully drove to the finish.

[WHITE]

Originally posted by kismet
Aren't we getting a bit ahead of ourselves here?

I am afraid we are !


Besides, which drivers should they replace ?

There have always been more good drivers than good available cars, so... many potential champions did not become champions ( Amon, Ickx, Peterson, Laffite, etc. ). It could happen the same with these people.

[aditya-now]

Originally posted by WHITE


I am afraid we are ! (getting ahead of ourselves..)

WHITE, that´s the fun of a BB thread.
Articulate, extrapolate, let your fantasy play.
Still sometimes many good infos come up as well in the process...

Of course realistically IMHO Heikki Kovalainen is the only one of the three - and even that could be flavoured by his much famed win over Michael Schumacher at the Race of Champions last year...
Still he did that in pretty good style.

I remember one young lad by the name of Ayrton da Silva who drove circles around famous drivers like Lauda, Piquet in the BMW M1 - Procar series. He then proceeded to become a F1 champ in his own right.

With Rosberg and Piquet, I was sure that they lived mostly by their famous last names.
However, Nico does prove his worthiness increasingly.

Also this poll indicates that: Kovalainen was pulling into an early lead, but Nico Rosberg definitely has his believers.

Originally posted by WHITE


Besides, which drivers should they replace ?

There have always been more good drivers than good available cars, so... many potential champions did not become champions ( Amon, Ickx, Peterson, Laffite, etc. ). It could happen the same with these people.

2007, the latest 2008 will witness a mighty change of guards: DC, Michael Schumacher, possibly Ralf Schumacher and Giancarlo Fisichella and maybe even Rubens Barrichello will retire.

The sport is in an eternal need for new big names (even as there will still be Alonso, Raikkonen, Montoya, Trulli - and maybe Rossi ;) ) and Bernie Ecclestone (he for one should be still around by then) will look to that.

Alonso, Raikkonen, Montoya, Trulli, Rossi, Kovalainen, Rosberg, Piquet may very well be the big names in the sport three years from now.

Do you think the movers and the shakers of this series will leave any stone unturned in trying to keep the exclusive image of F1?
Bear in mind that marketingwise A1 and GP Masters could become potent forces...
Surely, those "makers of F1" will plan ahead a few years to keep the sport attractive.
One question remaining for me is if there will be another driver from Indy/CART coming into F1? Probably not, considering how many (big) names have failed - with the notable exception of Jacques Villeneuve.
So even the "interbreeding" with MotoGP (Rossi) is not that farfetched in an attempt to secure big names for F1.

Consequently, Piquet, Rosberg and Schumacher-beater Kovalainen have already resonant names and are surely in the contest for the hottest cockpits of the future. What happens to Klien, Liuzzi and others in the Red Bull stables is much more the question - will Mateschitz´ boys make it big time ?

[Dudley]

Alonso, Raikkonen, Montoya, Trulli, Rossi, Kovalainen, Rosberg, Piquet may very well be the big names in the sport three years from now.

There are never that many big names as far as the general public are concerned. Cut that list by half, at least.

[HSJ]

Originally posted by santori


I rate Piquet very highly. He raced successfully in South America, then moved to the British championship, winning regularly in his first season (and being picked by Autosport as their joint driver of the year with champion Alan Van der Merwe), then winning the championship in his second.

Problem is, van der Merwe sucks. (Not big time, but he's nothing much to talk about.) So Piquet Jr. can suck along with him then(?). Being ranked with van der Merwe is not to Piquet's credit.

[wildmind]

A VdM does not suck! I watched him racing in britain the other year and was well impressed with the guy.

Good car control, had balls when it came to overtaking and his team seemed to get along with him. He was also very approachable.

[WHITE]

Originally posted by aditya-now


WHITE, that´s the fun of a BB thread.
Articulate, extrapolate, let your fantasy play.





Alonso, Raikkonen, Montoya, Trulli, Rossi, Kovalainen, Rosberg, Piquet may very well be the big names in the sport three years from now.

Three years is a long time. Do not you expect any new name to claim a F1 seat ?

As Dudley said, there are too many names in this list and, usually, no more than two or maximum three teams that can build a winning car.

I would not even discard Danica Patrick. It would be a good way of attracting american audience and make them forget the race at indy. Red Bull's owner seems very good at promotional affairs and he is very interested in the american market. Who knows ? I ( hope nobody can blame me now for not letting my fantasy play )

[tidytracks]

Originally posted by wildmind
A VdM does not suck! I watched him racing in britain the other year and was well impressed with the guy.

Good car control, had balls when it came to overtaking and his team seemed to get along with him. He was also very approachable.

Absolutely agree. Alan is a top guy and a great racing driver.

As for which of these three will be WDC first, who knows? Before this season I would have said definitely Heikki, but Nico has been awesomely impressive... so much so he's moved close to the top of my list of favourite drivers around right now. Again, he's approachable, very funny, and he's one of a rare breed who races with brains and balls. Real balls. GP2 has brought the real racing driver out of Nico and I think in a few years time we'll look back on 2005 as the season that really made him.

But as for who gets the crown first, its too dependant on chance to be a certainty. Will Nico get the Williams seat next season? And if he does, will Williams be in as big a mess as they have been in 2005? If so, it could seriously dent his confidence, not to mention set him back a season. If Williams are competetive and Nico gets the seat, then he'll have that extra experience under his hat by the time Heikki gets his shot at Renault... and the big question will be whether or not Renault are still the force they are right now. Will Hamilton be at McLaren by then? Will Red Bull be mega competetive? And what about BAR?

The big question, is where does Piquet fit in? Nico got the nod over Nelson at Williams, there's no room for him at Renault, McLaren wouldn't fit (or would they?), BAR's a possibility although Jenson looks to have that one bolted up with Carroll looking to edge in... the there's Ferrari??? If Rossi goes then I doubt it. Red Bull - highly unlikely...So where's he got left?

Mind you, wouldn't it be awesome if, in a couple of years we see something like this as a fight for the WDC...

Renault: Kovalainen
McLaren: Hamilton
Williams: Rosberg
BAR: Carroll (possibly Piquet or Van de Merwe too)
Ferrari: Rossi (maybe Liuzzi)
Red Bull: Liuzzi, Speed

Now that WOULD be fun

[BRG]

I have had my doubts about all three in the past - two were hyped on the strength of their names, the other because of his passport. Now all have improved and have established some genuine credentials of their own. But I am not sure that any of them are WDC material, although I imagine that at least two will reach F1 and should be competitive at that level. IMO Piquet seems to be the one lacking F1 capability.

The one that has impressed me this year is Rosberg, who has developed from a rather average player in F. BMW and F3, into a real racer. To enter GP2 straight out of F3 and beat good drivers with experience in more powerful cars such as F1, F3000, F. Nissan etc is a seriously impressive performance. But getting into F1 is one thing, winning GPs is another, and winning WDCs is something else again. Is Rosberg is good enough to win races or WCs? The jury is out and will be out for a while yet, I reckon.

[aditya-now]

Originally posted by WHITE


I would not even discard Danica Patrick. It would be a good way of attracting american audience and make them forget the race at indy. Red Bull's owner seems very good at promotional affairs and he is very interested in the american market. Who knows ? I ( hope nobody can blame me now for not letting my fantasy play )

Well, that´s a definite thought.
IF she manages to transform further on her race performances consistently, then Bernie Ecclestone would be the first to support her. And he would probably talk Sir Frank into giving her a seat, if not Dietrich Mateschitz picks her up first anyway.

[ViMaMo]

Originally posted by Dolph


yes, we can do that. But it does not prevent us from dong this... If u don't want you don't have to play

Pls go ahead and do the speculation.

I found it way too early to speculate, its one thing speculating when they are driving a F1 car on a regular basis and another thing when they have not even had the chance to get themselves acclimatised to a F1 car.

I'm not saying that they are all failures, ofcourse there seems to be a lot of raw talent; thats not just enough to ensure a WDC.

Alex Zanardi is a good example ?

[Tubbs]

Originally posted by BRG
the other because of his passport.

[A Wheel Nut]

F1 is a highly cyclic sport; the competition for a top drive is so great; there are so few competive seats each season and yet so many drivers to fill them that I dare say the driver with the best mangement will secure a WDC before the other two, if at all. Luck will play its part as well because nothing is certain in F1, not even form from one season to the next.

Good drivers will always win, yet a good driver in a bad car will be handicapped every time - Raikkonen being the perfect example of that - twice. In '03 car wasn't fast enough, in '05 it wasn't reliable enough. Few, apart from die hard fans, would argue that Alonso was vastly superior to Raikkonen.

[petri]

Rosberg, absolutely! He is just 20 and already driving like a pro!
As for Kovalainen, I think he's a bit overrated but ready for F1, too.

[Menace]

Originally posted by A Wheel Nut
F1 is a highly cyclic sport; the competition for a top drive is so great; there are so few competive seats each season and yet so many drivers to fill them that I dare say the driver with the best mangement will secure a WDC before the other two, if at all. Luck will play its part as well because nothing is certain in F1, not even form from one season to the next.

Good drivers will always win, yet a good driver in a bad car will be handicapped every time - Raikkonen being the perfect example of that - twice. In '03 car wasn't fast enough, in '05 it wasn't reliable enough. Few, apart from die hard fans, would argue that Alonso was vastly superior to Raikkonen.

Spot on!

[911]

Personaly, I would really like to see Heikki become a future WDC. He is very talented and has a personality that is good for F1.

[vroom-vroom]

Originally posted by tidytracks
Will Nico get the Williams seat next season? And if he does, will Williams be in as big a mess as they have been in 2005? If so, it could seriously dent his confidence, not to mention set him back a season.

Well; his father just did that, and ended up as WDC. He entered the '82 season at Williams with an underpowered normally aspirated Cosworth and competed against much more powerful turbo engines. Although the season was marred by a series of catastrophic events, Rosberg ended up WDC thanks to reliability of his Williams-Cossie package, with one win to his credit.

[tidytracks]

Originally posted by vroom-vroom
Well; his father just did that, and ended up as WDC. He entered the '82 season at Williams with an underpowered normally aspirated Cosworth and competed against much more powerful turbo engines. Although the season was marred by a series of catastrophic events, Rosberg ended up WDC thanks to reliability of his Williams-Cossie package, with one win to his credit.

Very true, and Keke already thinks Nico has more talent than he did. They're born of the same cloth... racers with balls and brains.

[aditya-now]

Kovalainen to join BMW F1 for 2006 ?

According to an article in the German/Swiss motorsport weekly "motorsport aktuell", Mario Theissen is keen on signing Heikki Kovalainen for 2006.

Briatore (manager of Heikki) wants Kovalainen to spend one year at BMW F1, as he has only a vacant seat at Renault from 2007 onwards (Briatore seems to want to honour the contract he has with Giancarlo Fisichella).

So BMW F1 appears to not even have to buy out Kovalainen, as Renault wants to place him only for one year at BMW to avoid a "Red Bull problem" (motorsport aktuell), that is, having to many drivers with not enough seats available.

If that becomes a done deal, it would mean:

Heikki Kovalainen, Nick Heidfeld - BMW F1
Nico Rosberg, Mark Webber - Williams F1

The potential of these youngsters is greatly underlined.

[petri]

Originally posted by aditya-now
Kovalainen to join BMW F1 for 2006

According to an article in the German/Swiss motorsport weekly "motorsport aktuell", Mario Theissen is keen on signing Heikki Kovalainen for 2006.

*snip*
If that becomes a done deal, it would mean:

Heikki Kovalainen, Nick Heidfeld - BMW F1
Nico Rosberg, Mark Webber - Williams F1

The potential of these youngsters is greatly underlined.

Wow! That would be cool! Poor Nick, he's got a DC -syndrome; yet another finn as a team-mate.

Today's Turun Sanomat says that Pizzonia in Williams is more likely than Nico, though.
That's because Williams's bad situation: they need Red Bulls's money Antonio could bring..

[Spunout]

The one that has impressed me this year is Rosberg, who has developed from a rather average player in F. BMW and F3, into a real racer.

Umm...he won the F. BMW championship. That´s average for you?

F3 was more difficult for him, sure. But the effects of aero/engine war have been discussed before.

[Spunout]

I have had my doubts about all three in the past - two were hyped on the strength of their names, the other because of his passport.

I see after disappearing from GP2 thread (because of obvious reasons) you are back to your usual business - slanting Finnish drivers.

But hey, I can correct the above quote for you:

I have had my doubts about all three in the past - two because of the strength of their names, the other because of his passport.

See? Much better.

[Pumpkin]

Originally posted by petri



Today's Turun Sanomat says that Pizzonia in Williams is more likely than Nico, though.
That's because Williams's bad situation: they need Red Bulls's money Antonio could bring..

Where the hell did Pizzonia get Red Bull money from?
Are you sure you dont mean Petrobas' dollars ?

[BRG]

Originally posted by Spunout
See? Much better.

No, it’s not, because, you see, then it would be WRONG.

I realise that you have a problem grasping the concept that I might actually be motivated by something other than ‘anti-Finnishness’ but what I posted was what I meant. I have no problem with young up-&-coming drivers, wherever they are from – indeed I am keen to see the best young talent get up to the highest levels. I DO have a problem with those people who announce that a particular driver is the next Messiah when that is based solely on their parentage or nationality and is not supported by any actual results.

So when so many people started saying, three or four years ago now, that Kovalainen was certain to be a WDC, I took leave to disagree and to ask for some on-track evidence of his talent. Which he has now delivered - although he has once again shown an Apparent Lack of (Championship) Pace in GP2 as in F3, which must put some question mark against his final potential. But I understand that such fine distinctions are lost on fanboys like you.

So I reckon that Rosberg has really delivered this year, Kovalainen also gets the nod (although I still think there are better drivers than him out there), and Piquet jr has earned a place in A1GP but not F1.

[Mauseri]

Kovalainen would be better tha Pizzonia. But F1 champion? I think he lack some raw force but that's just me despite being finnish.

[aditya-now]

Originally posted by micra_k10
Kovalainen would be better tha Pizzonia. But F1 champion? I think he lack some raw force but that's just me despite being finnish.

That's right ! Raw force.

Kimi definitely had that raw force from the beginning. Remember him in the Sauber losing the steering wheel but not losing his cool. He said something along the lines of:"... it was interesting but I could not finish my race because I had lost my steering wheel..."

Or remember Fernando going full speed through the crash debris at Interlagos 2003 (the race that Kimi/Fisichella won).

THAT´s raw force. And see where these two guys are now.
An interesting and important point, micra!

[kup]

Personally i like Heikki most of them, but seems he has no father WDC, so
Nico has best chances and Nelson has some too.

[carbonfibre]

Heikki also has some very good chances. His manager is Flavio and he always seems to find a good place for his boys.

[Dudley]

Originally posted by WHITE

I would not even discard Danica Patrick. It would be a good way of attracting american audience and make them forget the race at indy. Red Bull's owner seems very good at promotional affairs and he is very interested in the american market. Who knows ? I ( hope nobody can blame me now for not letting my fantasy play )

I would, she's a poor road racer and has never won a professional motor race of any kind.

Your better bet might be Katherine Legge, but even that's a stretch.

[aditya-now]

"Rosberg is the best driver to come to F1 in a long time", Gerhard Berger raves in an article on Nico in Motorsport aktuell, 22 Nov.

And Lauda adds:"Nico is one of the upcoming F1 World Champions".

The article goes on stating the technical feedback that Nico Rosberg gave already when he was 17 and first testing the Williams. According to a "Technical Understanding Test" that Williams let all their pilots do, Nico scored better than Ralf, Juan Pablo, Mark, Nick, Marc, Jenson etc.
And that at the tender age of 17...

[GregorV]

Indeed, I would put Nico's strength to be his ability lo learn. Getting the most out of a car such as F1 is as much about natural talent for car control as is trying to figure out what is it technically that prevents the driver to extract the maximum from the car. Note that this may not be about the sheer pace of the car but the way a car handles so that it best suits the driver. If a driver has a pretty good idea about what it is that makes a car work the way it does and is willing to learn about it, he or she will know how to adjust the car to feel confident about pushing it, something that may not be apparent to engineers. That's why my vote goes to Nico, I don't doubt that a part of his performances in GP2 steadily improving were down to him understanding the car better.

[Cittànuova]

Peter Windsor comments (a long time ago)
"If Briatore would be reasonable he would replace Giancarlo Fisichella with Kovalainen. Heikki is so rare talent that he is not only ready to race in F1, but he also could win a GP straight away. Maybe Flavio sells him straight away to Ferrari. It`s clear that this kind of talent has to get fast into F1. Everyone sees what kind of grand prospect is at stake."

[HardRock]

I'd say Rosberg and Kovalainen may be. I don't think Piquet is, but I don't have enough references to make a good judgment about him.

[V10 Fireworks]

Fact of the matter is gap from F1 to elsewhere is bugger all. A bit of application that's all, specifically by Webbo who wasn't really s'posed to make F1.

These guys may be good they may not, it's not important yet.

That Piquet, Rosberg & Kovalinen were pushed as "new-WDCs" before F3 is still utterly stupid, and some bias where always ignoring bad results of chosen ones with excuses, and using excuses to ignore good results of non-chosen ones, very annoying.