18 replies to this topic

[man]

Looking back, 1985 was a season that gave me great pleasure to watch, both from the armchair and at the circuit. Pretty cars, interesting mix of drivers, turbo flames, sparks, bla bla bla!

The 156/85 began the season in very competitive form, Alboreto driving probably the race of his career at Monaco to finish second, having also led the Brazilian GP, and then winning at Montreal. Johansson confirmed the pace of the reds by almost winning at Imola and Detroit. Why did Ferrari fade so badly? From what I recall they were playing with the suspension which caused nothing but problems and they also faded in terms of the lack of development regarding their V6. Were there other reasons or are there any more details I am missing?

Please share your thoughts on whatI consider as a highly entertaining season.

[Fiorentina 1]

I liked Senna in the Lotus grabbing pole position almost every race. I also liked the way the RAM's looked, too bad they were sh*te and too bad the Renaults sucked that year. Piquet winning at Paul Riccard was cool, so was Mansell at Brands Hatch. The Ligier's fighting for second in Australia was memorable as well. But, the race of the year was San Marino; Senna leading and running out of gas with 2 to go, then Johansson leading and running out with 1 to go. Prost winning, but getting DQed and De Angelis winning the race. Boutsen ran out of gas but pushed his car accross the line for 2nd. I think Tambay was third? Not sure.

[ensign14]

The depressing part of the season was the Toleman saga, basically out of F1 because of no tyre contract - Michelin pulled out, they'd burnt their bridges with Pirelli and Goodyear weren't interested - and they had to miss out the opening races until they bought Spirit and closed them down. Double depression for that.

Makes one wonder at the level of intelligence of the suppliers. Toleman had nearly won races that year, they went on to score poles with Fabi over the next couple of years and provided the backbone for every World Champion team from 1999 to today. Yet the likes of RAM and Alfa Romeo were seen as better bets.

[Hugo Boecker]

The really depressing part of the season is the loss of Bellof and Winkelhock in group C races.

[mikedeering]

Ah. Happy memories. The first year I followed F1. Being only 6 at the time I will admit that much of what I recall about comes from books, but still!

The strange aspect about the Ferraris is that seemingly overnight they became woefully unreliable AND slow as well. Normally you associate unreliability with pushing the boundaries a bit, but not at Ferrari in 1985 it seems! Alboreto put in some great performances in the first half of the year, and I think only lost the championship lead in August? Johansson as well ran well. Looking back on it now, and with rose tinited glasses I'm sure, the thing I recall was the competitiveness of it all. Off the top of my head, race winners included Prost and Lauda at McLaren, de Angelis and Senna at Lotus, Rosberg and Mansell at Williams, Alboreto at Ferrari and Piquet at Brabham. 8 winners, 5 teams, 5 engine manufacturers and 2 tyre companies in that mix. Not 1982 standards, granted but pretty good going! The Lotuses still looked gorgeous in the JPS livery, the Renaults I recall also looked stunning (alas stunningly slow too) and you can't forget the Toleman either which was very fast in Fabi's hands although a tad unreliable!

And of course 1985 still had some interesting variety in tracks - old Osterreichring, Kyalami, Silverstone, Zandvoort etc.

A great year all in all, albeit tainted by the loss of both Bellof and Winkelhock as mentioned previously in sports cars.

[john aston]

It was a very good year - one in which ISTR I went to 3 gps- Brit , Dutch and European.The cars were just getting more powerful by the race and the spectacle was only surpassed by the turbo era's best year -86.And of course we had an embarassment of riches on the driving front- Prost Senna Piquet Rosberg and -oh alright ,our bloody Noige. Highlight for me was watching the Dutch and seeing wily old Lauda hold off Prost to take his last GP victory.But regardless of racing battles ,it was the sheer feral violence of these ludicrously powerful cars,1000bhp , manual box , no traction control .Big cojones needed- just like Keke must have had when he did that staggering lap at Silverstone.

[Seanmac27]

Originally posted by ensign14
The depressing part of the season was the Toleman saga, basically out of F1 because of no tyre contract - Michelin pulled out, they'd burnt their bridges with Pirelli and Goodyear weren't interested - and they had to miss out the opening races until they bought Spirit and closed them down. Double depression for that.

Makes one wonder at the level of intelligence of the suppliers. Toleman had nearly won races that year, they went on to score poles with Fabi over the next couple of years and provided the backbone for every World Champion team from 1999 to today. Yet the likes of RAM and Alfa Romeo were seen as better bets.

I think the problem there was the nature of Tolemans shift from Pirelli to Michelin in '84. As it had been as acrimonious as it had been, I think it was San Marino in'84 when the Tolemans failed to qualify, Pirelli were less than interested in supplying them, plus Goodyear I think had a full roster.

I think the saddest part of it was that the original drivers, John Watson and Stefan Johansson never got to drive in anger a car was a potential race winner, rather leaving it to the fumblings of Teo Fabi and Piercarlo Ghinzani.

[Twin Window]

From what I remember, the split from Pirelli was invoked by Alex Hawkridge and prompted Toleman's PR bloke Chris Witty - who was close to Pirelli, and had put the deal together with them in the first place - to quit on the spot.

That was, as you say, at Imola 1984. Later in the season, following Johnny Cecotto's practice shunt at Brands, Stefan was drafted in to partner Senna for the last few races - so he did get a chance in the car, albeit not in 1985.

They were so hamstrung that year that their only chance of getting publicity was by turning the wick up off the dial on their Hart turbos in qualifying, which paid off a couple of times. Teo Fabi, an Indy 500 polesitter don't forget, was in his second stint with the team and had about the same chance of being competetive as he had in 1982...

[FLB]

Originally posted by Hugo Boecker
The really depressing part of the season is the loss of Bellof and Winkelhock in group C races.

All in all, 'depressing' is an understatement to describe what 1985 was for Group C:


Monza was ended by a major storm that brought trees down on the track
John Nielsen flipped his Sauber-Mercedes during practice for Le Mans (shades of 1999)
A driver (I forget who) had a major off at Silverstone and wound up in a coma
As mentioned, two drivers killed (Winkelhock and Bellof)
A MAJOR pit fire at Hockenheim for Porsche that scarred Norbert Singer for life
No less than a typhoon at Fuji


Thankfully, there were still a few positives: the arrival of the TWR Jags at Mosport, Mercedes coming back to sportscars through the back door at Le Mans, Lancia finally winning at Spa (albeit under tragic circumstances) and Nissan's win at Fuji.

[Mallory Dan]

And Group C2 was getting stronger by the race that year. Generally I reckon 85 wa an excellent year all round. As described F1 was pretty good that year, with many and varied winners. Group C was improving, F3000 made a promising start, F3 was excellent after years of RT3 domination.

[Arjan de Roos]

1985? Indeed a special season. Zandvoort was a highlight, but at the time we still believed it wasnt the last Dutch GP as there was a contract running up until 1987. Alas it was never to be, as I believe Zandvoort could have helped F1 to stay more F1.

F3000 was on a debut with Thackwell, Pirro, Streiff, Danner, Nielsen, Capelli,.... Oh, good class.
It was intended to be a class full of retired F1 cars with the Cossie 3L inside. Still that not really worked out. However a good side show in F1 weekends.

Downside the loss of Bellof, but still did he show so much racing in 1985 too. I'll never forget the sight of Stefan hustling through the Detroit chicanes missing his nose cone. Fighting to reach the podium. I also saw Elio for the last time.

Great days too, as Enzo was still around and the buzz of a Ferrari Indy car was thrilling.

Due to better a broadcasting situation in Europe (Sky was emerging in mainland Europe) Indycar racing and Endurance was gaining popularity.

A big cock up was the Belgium GP that had to be postponed due to the new asphalt coming loose in practice. The F3000 race slided to an end. Terrible.

Lauda leading his last race and believing in a fantastic end to his career. It was not to be.

[Louis Mr. F1]

hello
does anyone know if there's ever an interview with Teo Fabi about his 1985 season with the Toleman team?
I wonder if the new Toleman book has some detailed insight from Fabi himself?

thank you
Louis

[RStock]

The 156/85 began the season in very competitive form, Alboreto driving probably the race of his career at Monaco to finish second, having also led the Brazilian GP, and then winning at Montreal. Johansson confirmed the pace of the reds by almost winning at Imola and Detroit. Why did Ferrari fade so badly? From what I recall they were playing with the suspension which caused nothing but problems and they also faded in terms of the lack of development regarding their V6. Were there other reasons or are there any more details I am missing?

:

I think the simple answer is general unreliability . I think Alboreto scored mechanical DNF's in the last 5 races . The reasons for it I'm not sure of , but I seem to remember Forgheiri being "moved to other duties" around that time . I believe it was before the season started though .

Edited by REDARMYSOJA, 16 December 2009 - 01:44.

[fareleiro]

1985 was the first time I started watching F1. And it was a great season. Lots of different winners and beautifull cars (arrows, ram, alfa, lotus, renault, zackspeed, minardi, toleman).

Funny that this was the a terrible season for midfielders:
- No points for Alfa Romeu. Disastrous year!!
- No points for Toleman, and only 1 finneshed race
- Renault was fadding away
- RAM had a good deal but DNF almost every race (although Alliot managed to run 5th in Rio)

And the backmarckers were terribly slow. They were only waisting everybody's time: Osella, Minardi, Zackspeed and Spirit.

But of course, the races were spectacular, specially the Senna-Rosberg fights.

[Hank the Deuce]

1985 was my first F1 season, like a few here.... a touring car fan for as long as I could remember, I had also seen a book on the history of the Indy 500 in primary school... when I discoved the 1978 Australian Motor Racing Year book in the high school library of our country town, I recognised Andretti immediately, was captivated by the story of the WDS that year, the triumph of the truly pretty Lotus 79, the tragedy of the loss of Petersen... and then the contemporary reporting of Lauda's third title in 1984 set the hook firmly.

I watched the entire 85 season, staying up late and falling asleep into my science textbooks the next day, revelling in Prost's first title and the excitement of the inaugural Adelaide F1 GP, mourning the retirement of Lauda, whom I had come quickly to admire through the story of his remarkable career (I devoured everything I could find thru 84-85 and was - and remain - a fan).

Added to that, locally, Group A racing brought a change for the better here too...

was by-and-large a good year, the losses of Bellof and Winkelhock notwithstanding

[jj2728]

I recall 1985 being a fuel economy run more than anything else.

[nmansellfan]

I think the simple answer is general unreliability . I think Alboreto scored mechanical DNF's in the last 5 races . The reasons for it I'm not sure of , but I seem to remember Forgheiri being "moved to other duties" around that time . I believe it was before the season started though .

I remember reading a long time ago an interview (may have been in Chequered Flag magazine) with Michele where he said Ferrari switched turbo supplier mid way through the season (From Garrret to KKK I think, may have been the other way round or neight of those companies!) and their reliability dropped off as a result of that. How many actual retirements or poor finishes due to turbo problems Ferrari had in the second half of the season, I don't know though.

[Tim Murray]

According to Ian Bamsey in The 1000 BHP Grand Prix Cars Ferrari didn't start using Garrett turbos until 1986. Alboreto had suffered an engine failure and two turbo failures in the last five races of 1985. As a result KKK came in for criticism, hence the change to Garrett during the following season. Garrett turbos were used from the 1986 Belgian GP onward, although KKK units continued to be used on the qualifying engines up until the British GP. The problems at the end of 1985 seem to have been due to Ferrari struggling to keep up with Porsche and Honda development, which led to the spate of failures.

[Bruno]

you're absolutely right Man,
in saying Alboreto exactly the race of his life in Monaco that year.
without the slip he made in St. Devote, following the failure to report oil on the track, he won the GP.
and possibly that of Belgium planned in May, which has not occurred. At that time the Ferrari was the best, and that day he was on pole and Prost at the bottom with the last time in grid



vous avez tout à fait raison de dire Alboreto à fait la course de sa vie à Monaco, cette année là.
sans la glissade qu'il a fait à St Devote, à la suite du non signalement de l'huile sur la piste, il remportait ce GP.
et peut-être celui de Belgique programmé en Mai, qui n'a pas eu lieu. à cette époque les Ferrari étaient les meilleurs, et ce jour là il était en pole et Prost tout au fond avec le dernier temps sur la grille

http://brunodaytona6...nd_prix_01.html

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