83 replies to this topic

[Mike Lawrence]

There are some very good sites about motor racing venues. but what about the really obscure?

Within earshot of where I live is the former RAF Merston which, like RAF Westhampnett (now called the Goodwood Motor Circuit) was an outpost of RAF Tangmere, Fighter Command's main base to defend Portsmouth and Southampton. In 1947, half a mile of RAF Merston's perimeter track was used for the one and only Chichester Speed Trials.

Among those who competed was a teenager, Moss, S, who drove a BMW 328.

In one of his columns for 'Classic Cars', the late MP and rake, Alan Clarke, described how he had a dice on the way home with the future superstar. Clarke, I think, was in an SS100 but, Classic Cars being the magazine it became, this was rendered as a Jaguar XKSS.

Speaking only from an English perspective, I have no information about the Gosport Speed Trials (Gosport saw Mike Hawthorn collect his first trophy) or the Weston-Super-Mare Speed Trials. 'Motor Sport' used to list such things in the calendar, but there was never a report.

Then there was sand racing at such resports as Skegness and Southport (plus Jersey). Skengess and Southport both descriibe themselves as 'seaside resorts' - you can stand on the front in both towns and you can see the sea, at a distance. In 1962 I worked at a holiday camp in Skegness and one of my co-workers was Ringo Starr. He was in the band (Rory Storm and the Hurricanes) while I was in a kitchen. I had this mate from the North West who kept banging on about how Ringo was going to join another band, The Beat-less, as though I cared.

I guess local newspapers may have carried reports. Some pretty big names, including Sir Malcolm Campbell, ran in sand racing.

In 1938 the was a one-off race meeting at the Southall (West London) bus depiot. The circuit was laid out using straw bales and oil drums. LAT has at least one phograph from the Southall meeting, but I I know nothing beyond that.

I cannot do such a site, I pass on the idea.

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by Mike Lawrence
Then there was sand racing at such resports as Skegness and Southport (plus Jersey). Skengess and Southport both descriibe themselves as 'seaside resorts' - you can stand on the front in both towns and you can see the sea, at a distance.

Steady on there Mike! Us Sandgrounders take exception to outsiders running down our resort!

After all Southport is the only town in Britain where you can go paddling outside of the three mile limit!

Southport not only had the sand-racing but also 'street' racing in the '60's where one Brian Redman was seen taking part. Then just down the road there is RAF Woodvale where rounds of the British Sprint Championship were held in the '70s.

Then of course Seagrave set the WORLD Land Speed Record of 152mph at Southport in 1926.

So beware of the Irate Sandgounders!

[RS2000]

I didn't recall Southall had a bus depot - and I was born in Southall! (are you sure it was a race, not a sprint? - sprints were held on the remaining non-gravel pit part of nearby Heston airfield before it became an M4 service area)
Seriously, there seems little prospect of ever producing a comprehensive record of sprint venues along the lines of Chris Mason's hillclimb book, nor stage rally venues, that are by nature even more transient? Or does anyone feel like taking it on.........?

[Tim Murray]

Sand racing still takes place in both Guernsey and Jersey. However, one weird Guernsey event no longer seems to be held. This was Nautocross. The harbour at St Sampsons is tidal, ie it is empty at low tide, so they used to run autocross style events in the harbour bed at low tide.

[bradbury west]

Mike,

The Southall site may have been at the factory of AEC, Associated Enginering Company(ies?) who made quality trucks and buses, usually chassis/cabs only, for bodying elswhere, and engines of repute used by other bus/truck manufacturers. They had a large site in Southall, possibly larger pre-war. They would of necessity have had a large yard/park where both the wip or finished chassis would be parked, so space could be made available, one supposes.

Roger Lund.

[bradbury west]

PS

I think there was sand racing at Redcar, on Teesside pre war. IIRC Bill Boddy mentioned some time ago that the Higham Special/Chitty variant appeared there. Will try to check

RL

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by bradbury west
Mike,

The Southall site may have been at the factory of AEC, Associated Enginering Company(ies?) who made quality trucks and buses, usually chassis/cabs only, for bodying elswhere, and engines of repute used by other bus/truck manufacturers. They had a large site in Southall, possibly larger pre-war. They would of necessity have had a large yard/park where both the wip or finished chassis would be parked, so space could be made available, one supposes.

Roger Lund.

Slightly OT, last LORRIES and buses produced at Southall in about 1979 I believe. Any idea whats there now?

[RS2000]

Surely sprint not race?

http://aec.middx.net...ecworks_003.htm

[Doug Nye]

Hmm - Greenford Speedway was the scene of some terrific midget racing just before WW2, while Skirrow exploits on another track at Lea Marshes stirs the memory of being told about them.

But then there are the sprint courses - hundreds of them - such as 300 yards of Peppard Hill outside Reading, nearly three (!) miles of Hindhead Hill in Surrey, the sprint course at Gatwick when it was still a horse race course with nary a flying machine to be heard, Sutton Park at Sutton Coldfield, the Stockbridge to King's Sombourne Road in Hampshire, Boothdene on the Oldham-Halifax Road, South Harting of course which I 'storm' enthusiastically every time I go to Goodwood, Bore Hill outside Dorking in Surrey, Brean Sands near Burnham, Waterloo Sands near Liverpool, Margam Park (yes - the same Margam of RAC and Rally of Wales WRC fame) near Neath (1923), Wallasey Sands and literally hundreds of others...before the local magistrates and police authorities really clamped down...

DCN

[RS2000]

http://www.users.wai...s/02_spares.htm

Nearby Iron Bridge Garage was supply source of most of my Cooper and Cooper S standard parts and "BL Special Tuning" parts to order, so an International Rallying link too.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Sutton Park at Sutton Coldfield...

Wow, I live within 10 minutes' walk of Sutton Park, never new it hosted racing...well, sprinting anyway.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by ensign14

Wow, I live within 10 minutes' walk of Sutton Park, never new it hosted racing...well, sprinting anyway.

I spectated at the RAC Rally stages held there in the early to mid 1970s, but I wasn't aware that they held sprints either. Maybe it was earlier than that time?

Curborough was, in my day, the nearest sprint venue - and was a reasonably short bicycle ride away too.

Ens; I lived on Slade Road, in Four Oaks, from 1963 to 1977! That can't be far from you, fella...

[Doug Nye]

Sutton Park - e.g. July 18, 1910 - 1-mile course - FTD by C.A. Bird - 65hp Napier in 1min 4secs from standing start....

DCN

[Ray Bell]

I don't suppose many of you have been to Pound Hill or Valleyfield?

Of course, our legendary locating of the Brookvale Hillclimb a couple of years ago takes some beating...

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Doug Nye

Sutton Park - e.g. July 18, 1910 - 1-mile course - FTD by C.A. Bird - 65hp Napier in 1min 4secs from standing start....

Interesting; thanks, Doug.

From what I remember of the Park, it was probably an entertaining stretch of 'road'!

[Doug Nye]

Having driven a big Napier - on a narrow, probably highly cambered park road yeeeessssss - one would have to make one's arrangements as one went along....

DCN

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Twin Window

Ens; I lived on Slade Road, in Four Oaks, from 1963 to 1977! That can't be far from you, fella...

Ooh, it's rough there. No, not far at all.

[johnwilliamdavies]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Margam Park (yes - the same Margam of RAC and Rally of Wales WRC fame) near Neath (1923),

DCN [/B]

re. Margam Park. It is still used for Motorcycle hillclimbs as well as the Wales Rally GB.
Ran originally in the early 1920's - 1923, 1924 (and post 1924 I think). Winners included Welshmen Donald Marendaz (Marendaz special, Marseal, ran at Brooklands) and Charles Sgonina (Sgonina special motorcycle, ran at Brooklands, raced Aston Martin DBR1 at Llandow).

For the most obscure I will nominate the Llangadog to Brynaman road up the Black Mountain in the Brecon Beacons which hosted a hillclimb on the 17th September 1910 won by W.D. Davies driving a 16-20 Singer. As it was run on a public road it is still there and is a fabulously steep and twisty run up the mountain with nothing but sheep for company. Well worth a visit if you're in the area. Ordnance survey map reference SN 73 19.


Welsh Motor Sport History

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by Tim Murray
Sand racing still takes place in both Guernsey and Jersey. However, one weird Guernsey event no longer seems to be held. This was Nautocross. The harbour at St Sampsons is tidal, ie it is empty at low tide, so they used to run autocross style events in the harbour bed at low tide.

St Sampson's harbour was still used in 2000, I spectated there, standing on the harbour wall looking down onto the "pits" and across the waterless mudbath to a small oval set out around oil drums . The event was definately stock car racing rather than autocross. Entertaining but bloody messy!
The same club (non MSA) held stock car racing on one of the beaches. The other motorclub , which is MSA affilliated holds regular events at Vazon Bay - well worth a look if you are in the right place at the right time, and it's free to spectate.
The main road along the edge of this beach is also used for sprints.In factGuernsey has a heck of a lot of motor sport venues for a small place.


For pre 1924 sprint and hillclimb venues, check out the book SPRINT by T R Nicholson, published 1969 - not easy to find these days but it details hundreds of locations used before RAC events on public roads were banned .

Simon Lewis
Transport Books
www.simonlewis.com

[Sharman]

What about the Catterick Hillclimb, it was a concrete track which ran through a tank training area and looked like the Western Front circa 1917. My first taste of a speed event in 1956 (speed is a relative term as the car in question was a 750 belonging to John?????? a fellow conscript, I've forgotten his surname, it was49 years ago!.)
What I do remember was Frank Harrison's GN single seater E93A powered, blown by a cabin blower at, Frank said, about 24psi. It would just stay together for four runs, two practice and two in anger, a machine the the mould of Spider. He always told me I could have the car if I could get into it, believe me I really tried, he was about 5ft 6 and I am/was 6ft31/2. Anybody know what happened to the car? I was posted away and never went back to Catterick.

[santori]

Pollsmoor in Cape Town. It wasn't obscure at the time - Bernd Rosemeyer and Ernst von Delius raced there - but much of it is now under South Africa's worst prison.

[Alan Lewis]

Apologies in advance for being only tenuously On Topic with this thread, but I know there are some aviation enthusiasts on TNF (just one or two...), and we have discussed before the old Ouston race circuit that existed here in Northumberland for a few years in the sixties.

Well, this week's edition of our local paper carried the following article, about a new book which sheds light on the old track's original life :

http://www.hexham-co...e.asp?id=293925

The book can be ordered from here :

http://www.countrysi...n_Series_3.html

I should also stress that I have no connection whatsoever with anyone involved in this! It's just a bit more daylight shed on one of the darker corners of the Story of Britain's Race Tracks (I was umming and ahhing about whether to make this a post in the "Obscure Tracks" thread).

APL

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by santori
Pollsmoor in Cape Town. It wasn't obscure at the time - Bernd Rosemeyer and Ernst von Delius raced there - but much of it is now under South Africa's worst prison.

Sounds like the one in Northern Ireland, Long Kesh I think it was, used in 1959, now the site of the infamous Maze prison. And Full Sutton in Yorkshire, fastest airfield track in the country, lap record for which will now always stand to a certain James Clark of Duns I believe ,also now the site of a prison.


Simon Lewis

[Rob Semmeling]

The airfield circuit of Welschap, near Eindhoven, The Netherlands certainly falls in the 'obscure' category. As far as I know, it was used only a couple of times in the late 1960s and early 1970s.

Apart from a few very interesting photos on this website (under 'Zandvoort' and 'Zandvoort 2'), there's no info whatsoever so be found about the races organized there, not even a trackmap. Considering the circuit was artificially constructed on the Welschap airfield, it probably wasn't great, but nonetheless it fascinates me.

[Cirrus]

Well I'm certainly interested, not only because I am familiar with the Hexham Courant (I have friends who live in Low Warden, down the road from "The Boatside"), but because I had no idea that there were any motor racing connections in that area.

I'm sure that Barry Boor and Eric McLoughlin will be as well.

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Stephen W



Southport not only had the sand-racing but also 'street' racing in the '60's where one Brian Redman was seen taking part.

Which streets were used? I'd not heard of this before

[humphries]

What I like about the 1910 Sutton Park meeting is the fact that the timekeeper(s) was/were carried as a passenger IN the competing cars!


John

[RTH]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
Having driven a big Napier - on a narrow, probably highly cambered park road yeeeessssss - one would have to make one's arrangements as one went along....

DCN

I thought that fleeting piece of film I have was DCN at the wheel ! Was it at Brooklands Doug ?

[Doug Nye]

I'm not sure what film you have - but if it shows a bearded idiot let loose in the Napier-Railton it's probably Longcross, the Chobham military test track. I drove the car on the old Members' Banking at Brooklands and nearly dropped it in the river Wey when my shoe jammed underneath the pedals, but I don't think that was on movie...stills only. I didn't actually mean the Napier-Railton though, pre-WW 'proper' Napiers.

DCN

[roger_valentine]

Mike,

I have cycled round the Merston site on numerous occasions, looking for the 1947 sprint course, but all I know is that there was an adverse camber right-hand bend 300 yards from the start. Do you know exactly which part of the perimeter track was used?

This aerial photo/map shows the site well:
http://www.multimap....=700&height=410

[Stephen W]

Originally posted by Ruairidh


Which streets were used? I'd not heard of this before

The 'circuit' was down by the pier utilising part of the coastal road by the fairground and the access roads in Victoria Park.

The races were limited to the number of runners allowed (six I think).

[Rob29]

Originally posted by Stephen W


The 'circuit' was down by the pier utilising part of the coastal road by the fairground and the access roads in Victoria Park.

The races were limited to the number of runners allowed (six I think).

Any more details of this? I have never heard of this event before.Nearest would be a sprint(one at a time) around Ocean Village,Southampton in 1991-about the first thing I recorded on video camera!

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by Stephen W


The 'circuit' was down by the pier utilising part of the coastal road by the fairground and the access roads in Victoria Park.

The races were limited to the number of runners allowed (six I think).

I think this is a multi-starter/persuit sprint, not a race as such.
They did run these kind of events at various venues untill the late 70s/early 80s I believe when all sprints became one-at-a-time.Can anyone confirm this was the case?

Simon Lewis

[Rob29]

The only place I have seen the term 'Persuit Sprint' was in the Isle of Man.I went to one of those a few years ago. A race meeting except that cars started one at a time due to lack of room for a grid!Overtaking certainly did take place.Speed Trials like Brighton used to run 2 at a time-in effect drag racing decades before that term was used.

[Gary Davies]

This is a rehash of a post I placed on TNF some four years. It concerns the Pembrokeshire Motoring Club's "Speed Hill-climb" at Lydstep, a tiny village on the coast 4 miles west of Tenby in (at least) 1955 and 1959. In the 1959 event, one D S Jenkinson gained 2nd fastest time in the saloons 1600cc category and 3rd in sports cars 2000cc, both times driving his Porsche!

The event seemed to attract a reasonably classy entry list, with Boshier-Jones and Tony March vying for FTD.

My interest is that for about ten years in a row, my family stayed at Lydstep Haven, the very site of the hillclimbs during the summer holidays. As a kid, I was completely unaware of the competition that took place some 4 months before our two holiday weeks.

I was there in August last year and, for the first time, drove up the road imagining what it would have been like to race up it in the 50s. Bumpy, fast and frightening, methinks.

[johnwilliamdavies]

Lydstep was a half mile hillclimb that first ran in 1949, organised by Tenby MC, and continued with 2 or 3 events a year up till 1960.
In the early years the FTD was usually set by Jack Moor in his Wasp. He was supplanted by Ken Wharton driving various Kiefts. In the later years FTD was usually between Tony Marsh and David Boshier-Jones in their Cooper-Twins.

Welsh Motor Sport History

[RAP]

Many years ago I picked up a programme for a race meeting at Langar airfield, near Nottingham. The date is 18th September 1949 organized by the Nottingham Sports Car Club. Presumably the venue was this
http://www.controlto...uk/L/Langar.htm
THere were 13 races over 3 or 5 laps, for sports cars and specials. It seems that the races were limited to 6 cars. No indication of lap length. No "big names", just a very down-to-earth clubby. A candidate for one of the more obscure UK races? Any more information would be gratefully received.
RAP

[RS2000]

Originally posted by Rob29
a sprint(one at a time) around Ocean Village,Southampton in 1991-about the first thing I recorded on video camera!

Hope you filmed my class winning run!

[Rob29]

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks

Sounds like the one in Northern Ireland, Long Kesh I think it was, used in 1959, now the site of the infamous Maze prison.


Simon Lewis

According to a book I have on Irish racing,the first airfield used for any sort of motorsport. Motorcycle races were run there at the first Battle of Britain 'At Home' day Sept.1945.

[Stephen W]

Motor Racing in Southport:

a) 1902-03 Southport Promenade races: the course ran down the promenade, dropped down onto Lord Street, ran the full lenght of this main thoroughfair then wound back onto the prom.

b) 1920s Speed Trials on the beach: this of course included H.O.D. Seagrave's World Land Speed Record in 1926.

c) Sand Racing which started in after the First World War and ran through into the 1970s.

d) 1926 International Rally

e) 1930 100 mile beach race

f) Speed Trials: starting in 1962 they were over a 1 Kilometre course and developed into the street racing course. The roads used were not PUBLIC roads and are still not so can be shut to create a course. However the new businesses in this area would surely object.

:

[Ruairidh]

Originally posted by Stephen W
Motor Racing in Southport:

f) Speed Trials: starting in 1962 they were over a 1 Kilometre course and developed into the street racing course. The roads used were not PUBLIC roads and are still not so can be shut to create a course. However the new businesses in this area would surely object.

:

Steve, thanks for the reply. Do you happen to know where these roads were? I knew Southport and the area pretty well in the 1970s. Many Thanks

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by Stephen W
Motor Racing in Southport:

a) 1902-03 Southport Promenade races: the course ran down the promenade, dropped down onto Lord Street, ran the full lenght of this main thoroughfair then wound back onto the prom.

b) 1920s Speed Trials on the beach: this of course included H.O.D. Seagrave's World Land Speed Record in 1926.

c) Sand Racing which started in after the First World War and ran through into the 1970s.

d) 1926 International Rally

e) 1930 100 mile beach race

f) Speed Trials: starting in 1962 they were over a 1 Kilometre course and developed into the street racing course. The roads used were not PUBLIC roads and are still not so can be shut to create a course. However the new businesses in this area would surely object.

:

I know there was at least one other "Southport 100", which took place in 1933. Do you (or anyone else?) have results for any in the 1930s?

[David McKinney]

I'm sure there was a 100-mile sand race at Southport every year from about 1926 or 28 until the mid '30s.
Or am I misreading your question?

[Vitesse2]

No, you're not, David. But Stephen's post seemed to imply there was only ever one in 1930.

[Alan Lewis]

Well, Ouston is about twelve miles due west of Newcastle, off the B6318 ("The Military Road", running along Hadrian's Wall, but built by General Wade in the aftermath of the Jacobite Rebellion of 1745). This is the Ordnance Survey Landranger map :



The circuit was the top lefthand corner of the airfield, and matches well to the map on Darren Galpin's site :

http://www.silhouet....cks/ouston.html

The Hillhead corner is at Nesbitt Hill Head on the western edge of the airfield, and Cheeseburn Grange is visible at the top of the map, above Cheeseburn corner.

As the Courant article says, the runways are all still there. Newcastle International Airport is about ten miles east and, though the usual flightpath is over the city, or the coast, sometimes they come in over the Durham moors, Slaley Hall, Prudhoe and Ouston, and you can see the layout clearly. I always look out for it if we go that way on my occasional trips to Heathrow.

APL

[humphries]

David, V2

The first "100" was held at Southport in 1927 when Dan Higgin won with a 3.0 1922 Vauxhall TT car and the 11th and last "100" was held in 1937 when the Dance Band Leader Billy Cotton won with his MG K3 Magnette. This was a popular victory as Billy was a big draw at Southport.

John

[Vitesse2]

John: on what basis were the handicaps set (if I'm right in assuming they were all handicaps)? Individual or class?

[David McKinney]

The early ones at least were run on a scratch basis

[humphries]

V2

Very briefly the first 3 editions of the Southport "100" were scratch races with classes for sports/touring and racing cars in 1927 and then all types lumped together with classes 750/ 1000 later 1100/ 1500/ 2000 and unlimited. In 1930 the race became a handicap by classes. In 1933 handicaps within a class were different depending on whether a car was supercharged or not and in 1934 handicaps were virtually individual, based on an expected level of performance by car and driver.

During the summer, in Southport Library, I spent 3 days supplementing the race reports from the motoring press with those published in the Southport Visiter (sic) and the Southport Guardian. The first race on the beach (usually adjacent to the Palace Hotel, Ainsdale) was held in 1920 when Major Segrave in the Opel GP belonging to the odious Sir Alistair Miller won the unlimited class from Everard T. Scarisbrick in a Mercedes. The Scarisbrick family were very influential in the development of Southport as a resort. Races round flagpoles began in 1923. The last main race in 1939 was won appropriately by a Southport driver Geoffrey Highley in his attractively rebodied MG Midget. Then came the war and that part of the country became very much an armed camp. Racing resumed on the beach in 1964 but was of an autocross nature.

Between 1920 and 1939 I have logged 106 race meetings with the official published results, with a few meetings slipping the net as there were other race organisers besides the Southport MC, later MRC Ltd. I have photocopies of about 50 race programmes, gleaned mainly from Duncan Rabagliati's treasure trove, but if others have said programmes please contact me by E-mail.

John

[petefenelon]

Gorgeous part of the country, too. One of the most under-rated scenic railway journeys in the UK is Newcastle-Carlisle. If you're ever in that part of the world, do it. And there's a damn good Indian restaurant in Hexham, too.;)