46 replies to this topic

[indyricefan13]

I am from the Ukraine and I live in Lviv (Lviv is the Ukrainian spelling. In the 30s Lviv was a part of Poland so the spelling in most sources about the GP is Lwow).
Lviv is a city with a rich multi cultural heritage. Many monuments remind the citizens of Lviv of their rich past. Monuments to the legendary Ukrainian poet Taras Shevchenko, and the founder of Lviv King Danylo Halyckyy are good examples. But not only those. There is also a large monument to Adam Mickewicz which reminds us of the large Polish contribution to the development of Lviv.
But one famous even in Lviv's history has always stayed in the shadow. And that is the Lviv Grand Prix which was held from 1930 till 1932. I am pretty confident that most of the people who live in Vitos'koho, Hvardiyska and Stryjska streets (the streets on which the race was held) don't have a clue that something like this was held where they live.
As I have said the story of the Lviv GP was largely forgotten by modern Lviv. But not any more. This year the Lviv GP marks its 75th anniversary and the Ukrainian Federation of Motorsports has finally installed a plaque to commemorate the Lviv Grand Prix at one of the buildings of Witovs'koho Street just across the place where the race started. Unfortunately I did not know about the even when it was supposed to happen so I couldn't attend and I still haven't seen it myself. But I have heard that all the winners of all classes are listed on it.
I think that it is great that finally the history of that great event will finally be engraved into the modern Lviv.

[Boniver]

www.kresy.co.uk/lwow_map.html

I font a map of lwow in the year of 1928
But where was the circuit

[David McKinney]

Is there a clue in the race's local title of Miedzynarodowe Okrezne Wyscigi Automobilowe o Nagrode miasta?

[anjakub]

The circuit is around inscription "I.HALICKIE".

[indyricefan13]

Besides that a modern racing car (don't know what type but I suppose it was a Formula BMW or something) was brought from Russia and it took a lap around the famous Lviv (Lwow) triangle. Man, I am so disappointed that I missed it but I just didn't see any announcements in the press.

[anjakub]

The commemorative table was opened on 7 October. In the same time was presented new book "Grand Prix Lwowa 1930-1933 - Historic chronicle" written by my Ukrainian friend Artem Atoyan. Very interesting book but in Ukrainian language.


From www.zik.com.ua

[Boniver]

GRAND PRIX LWOW

8 sep 1930
Henryk Liefeld Austro-Daimler
Skolimowski Alfa Romeo

8 jun 1931
Hans Stuck Mercedes-Benz
Nadu Bugatti


19 jun 1932
Rudolf Caracciola Alfa Romeo
Schmidt Bugatti

11 jun 1933
Eugen Bjornstad Alfa Romeo
Veyron Bugatti

[anjakub]

These are winners of class: racing, sports cars and voiturette.

Other winners:
1930 touring cars - Maria Kozmian (Austro Daimler)
1931 touring cars - Maria Kozmian (Austro Daimler), hors concours - 1. Hans Stuck (Mercedes Benz)
1930 sports motobikes 600 cc - Kazimierz Krzeminski (Ariel)
1930 racing motorcycles 250 cc - Rudolf Wilim (Ariel)
1930 racing motorcycles 600 cc - Tadeusz Rudawski (Ariel)
1932 racing motorcycles 250 cc - Alfred Geyer (DKW)
1932 racing motorcycles 350 cc - Rudolf Breslauer (Coventry Eagle)
1932 racing motorcycles 500 cc - Czeslaw Gebala (Ariel)

[indyricefan13]

Originally posted by anjakub
The commemorative table was opened on 7 October. In the same time was presented new book "Grand Prix Lwowa 1930-1933 - Historic chronicle" written by my Ukrainian friend Artem Atoyan. Very interesting book but in Ukrainian language.


From www.zik.com.ua

As you know the author do you by chance know whether the book will be available in book shops in Lwow?

[anjakub]

Probably, so. Possibly look for in FAU (Federation Automobile d'Ukraine).

[indyricefan13]

It's great that the Grand Prix has finally been commemorated and that a book has come out. I am surprised that there is no Polish version of the book. With Lviv's rich Polish heritage I think many Poles would be interested. Moreover, many books about the history of Lviv published in Ukraine have a Polish version.

[Rob29]

A version in english would be nice. I will attempt most european languages,but even the www cannot cope with Ukranian.The title box just shows a row of question marks when I linked to site quoted!
At least thanks to this thread I now know how to write 'Grand Prix' in cyrillic.

[Vitesse2]

You probably don't have Cyrillic language support, Rob. It's an add-on you have to install from Windows Update.

However, without an understanding of the language (which I don't have either), you won't get very far on that site, since it looks to be some sort of rolling news service.

[indyricefan13]

Originally posted by Rob29
A version in english would be nice. I will attempt most european languages,but even the www cannot cope with Ukranian.The title box just shows a row of question marks when I linked to site quoted!
At least thanks to this thread I now know how to write 'Grand Prix' in cyrillic.

I am not sure whether I understand you correctly but if you mean on the commemorative plaque here goes:

Ãðàí Ïð³ Ëüâîâà - Lviv Grand Prix (Grand Prix of Lviv)
Ïåðåìîæöÿì - for the winners (dedicated to the winners)
8 âåðåñíÿ 1930 ðîêó - September 8th 1930
Õåíðèê ˳åôåëüäò (Ïîëüùà) - Henryk Liefeldt (Poland)
Òàäåóø Ñêîë³ìîâñê³ (Ïîëüùà) - Tadeusz Skolimowski (Poland)
8 ÷åðâíÿ 1931 - June 8th 1931
Ãàíñ Øòóê (ͳìå÷÷èíà) - Hans Stuck (Germany)
Æîðæ Íàäó (Ðóìóí³ÿ) - George Nadu (Romania)
19 ÷åðâíÿ 1932 - June 19th 1932
Ðóäîëüô Êàðà÷÷³îëà (ͳìå÷÷èíà) - Rudolf Caracciola (Germany)
Ôëîð'ÿí Øì³äò (×åõîñëîâà÷÷èíà) - Florian Schmidt (Chechoslovakia)
11 ÷åðâíÿ 1933 - June 11th 1933
Åæåí Áéîðíñòàä (Íîðâåã³ÿ) - Eugen Bjornstad (Norway)
Ï'ºð Âåéðîí (Ôðàíö³ÿ) - Pierre Veyron (France)
Àâòîìîá³ëüíà Ôåäåðàö³ÿ Óêðà¿íè - The Automobile Federation of Ukraine

If you meant something else let me know.
Feel free to contact me if you have any other questions that in some way conserne the Ukrainian language.

[Rob29]

Actually I meant the book referred to in earlier post,but thanks for that anyway.

[indyricefan13]

Originally posted by Rob29
Actually I meant the book referred to in earlier post,but thanks for that anyway.

I thought that you probably meant the book. Maybe I'll do a translation one day. That would be a cool way to spend my free time.
But first I've got to get it in Ukrainian

[anjakub]

Originally posted by indyricefan13
It's great that the Grand Prix has finally been commemorated and that a book has come out. I am surprised that there is no Polish version of the book. With Lviv's rich Polish heritage I think many Poles would be interested. Moreover, many books about the history of Lviv published in Ukraine have a Polish version.

The Polish book (not Polish version) about Grand Prix Lwowa is prepared. All errors and absences (unfortunately few serious errors), which have been placed in work of Artem Atoyan, will be eliminated.

From other side many books about the history of Lwów published in Poland not have a Ukrainian version.

[indyricefan13]

Originally posted by anjakub


The Polish book (not Polish version) about Grand Prix Lwowa is prepared. All errors and absences (unfortunately few serious errors), which have been placed in work of Artem Atoyan, will be eliminated.

From other side many books about the history of Lwów published in Poland not have a Ukrainian version.

True, I have never seen a book about Lviv published in Poland with a Ukrainian version. Perhaps it's hard to find a translator but I think there are other obvious reasons.

You said that the Polish book is prepared. But when will it be published!? I would really like to have it.

I searched for Atoyan's book in some of Lviv's book shops today and couldn't find it. Maybe you know by chance in which publishing house it was published? Then I could contact them and get it.

As you know before WWII Ukraine was divided between Poland and the USSR. A parallel may be drawn between the western part and the eastern part in the early 30s. While Lviv, the largest city of its part staged international automobile racing, the eastern part was going through the famine, which happened not because of lack of food but because of communist rule It was organzied by Stalin and killed 8 million Ukrainians.

[Tomas Karlsson]

Didn't the profit from the event go to help for the victims of the famine one year?

I read in a Swedish report from the '33 race that the roads were very bad. Loose and with big holes in them. And it didn't get any better with all the rain that year.

[indyricefan13]

Originally posted by Tomas Karlsson
Didn't the profit from the event go to help for the victims of the famine one year?

I read in a Swedish report from the '33 race that the roads were very bad. Loose and with big holes in them. And it didn't get any better with all the rain that year.

No, I recall that the profit from the event went to help the unemployed in Lviv.

Regarding the famine, actually there was no real famine. The crops in 1932 and 1933 were just as good as earlier. Massive colectivization organized by Stalin led to the famine and to the deaths of millions of people. No outside help was allowed. The Soviets didn't allow that and pretended that everything was okay. It was simply genocide against the Ukrainian people. My grandmother used to tell me that the citizens of her town (which was in western Ukraine) tried to put together some aid but it wasn't allowed to cross the border. The USSR just wasn't interested in helping the people. Complete villages were wiped off the map of Ukraine forever and the horror stories of those who lived through it are just too horrible to hear. It just sometimes shocks me that America was an ally of the animals like Stalin who killed millions of people and all the other savages that ran the USSR.

Actually when the Red Army came to Lviv they immediately executed thousands of Ukrainians for almost no reasons in Lviv's prison. It wasn't a matter of opposition. It was just a matter of Soveit Russian hatred towards other weaker Slavic nations.

In other words the Jews have the Holocost. We, Ukrainians have the famine of 1932-33, wh

[Tomas Karlsson]

So they did have unemployment in USSR? I thought that didn't excist in Stalin's perfect world.

[st59cz]

So they did have unemployment in USSR? I thought that didn't excist in Stalin's perfect world.

Lwiw was in Poland then.

[Tomas Karlsson]

Yes of course! Just a little brain-fading....

[Tomas Karlsson]

Back to what I found in the race report:
Was the streets used for the track gravel roads? I thought it was in the town. Were there no paving-stones?

[Alexey Rogachev]

I don't know anything about gravel, but some streets that the racing circuit included were paved with basalt flagstones, which made the road very slippery.

[Tomas Karlsson]

According to Widengren, it had rained a lot before the '33 race and that had made the track loose with many tracks and big holes. It was very physically demanding.

[indyricefan13]

I don't know about gravel but there were tram tracks in many places and that made it pretty tricky.

BTW, I got Atoyan's book today. There are some small negative things but generally the book is great. The photos are awesome!

[Tomas Karlsson]

Maybe the pictures can show us what type of surface the track had?

[anjakub]

Tomas, Lwow's surface the track now is as 50 years ago.

Please see:

first photo

www.lwow.home.pl/lwow2002/r12.html

first and second photos

http://www.lwow.home...ow2002/r13.html

[Rob29]

Wonderful! Love the tramlines.Thats what the streets in south london looked like when I was brought up.

[indyricefan13]

I have just finished reading the Atoyan book. A good read! And I found out tons about the Lviv GP and racing in Poland at that time.

anjakub, if the Polish book about the Lwow GP comes out please let me know. I would really like to have it.

Nowadays the surface of the 'Lviv triangle' is somewhat different from what it was in the 30s. On Witows'koho (Pelchenska) Street most of the bricks were taken away and special concrete platforms were installed to make it easier for the trams. There are bricks between the plateforms though. And it seems to me that the street is narrower nowadays.

[indyricefan13]

Originally posted by Rob29
Wonderful! Love the tramlines.Thats what the streets in south london looked like when I was brought up.

The tram lines made it very difficult for the racing cars in those days. It was a really tough race track. And the lamp posts on the side walks were very dangerous as well. Most of the buildings that can be seen on the photos are still there today although they are occupied by Russians, who in my opinion don't have any right whatsoever to live there.

[Tomas Karlsson]

I am sorry, but I can't see that there were any tram-lines on the circuit, when looking at the old map of the city....
The track-map doesn't fit completely with the city-map. If you look at tha city-map the first corner should have been a hairpin.
And I am still a bit confused by how Widengren described the track surface to the Swedish press.

[anjakub]

Originally posted by Tomas Karlsson
I am sorry, but I can't see that there were any tram-lines on the circuit, when looking at the old map of the city....
The track-map doesn't fit completely with the city-map. If you look at tha city-map the first corner should have been a hairpin.

The tram-lines on the circuit please see red line along Pelczynska street and Sw. Zofii square. Hairpin was a last corner. Obertynska street wasn't a part of the circuit.

[Tomas Karlsson]

OK I see! I thougt it was the parallell street south of Pelczynska street! Now I get it!

I think I have found an explination to the story about the holes and tracks in the road. I saw another text where the Scandinavian drivers talked about the slippery roads with many holes. But they were not talking of the circuit in Lwow, but about the Polish roads they travelled to get to the race. So one journalist has probably misunderstood the whole thing.

Two more questions:
I saw somewhere that Balestrero was disqualified because he filled the tank while the engine was still running and that Widengren thus became second. Is that true?

Widengren collided with Hartmann during practice, but was able to repair the car before the race. But what happened to Hartmann? There is no word of him in Sheldon's "black Book".

[indyricefan13]

Originally posted by Tomas Karlsson
OK I see! I thougt it was the parallell street south of Pelczynska street! Now I get it!

I think I have found an explination to the story about the holes and tracks in the road. I saw another text where the Scandinavian drivers talked about the slippery roads with many holes. But they were not talking of the circuit in Lwow, but about the Polish roads they travelled to get to the race. So one journalist has probably misunderstood the whole thing.

Two more questions:
I saw somewhere that Balestrero was disqualified because he filled the tank while the engine was still running and that Widengren thus became second. Is that true?

Widengren collided with Hartmann during practice, but was able to repair the car before the race. But what happened to Hartmann? There is no word of him in Sheldon's "black Book".

Yes, Balestero's engine was running while the fuel was going in and he was disqualified giving Widengreen second. Only three cars in the top class finished the race.

I think Hartmann's car was able to start but Hartmann was injured in the crash and the medics advised him to stay in hospital so he couldn't start the race.

[Tomas Karlsson]

Thanks!

[Tomas Karlsson]

BTW does the book explain what happened between Widengren and Hartmann ( I suppose he drove his ususal Bugatti 51)?

[indyricefan13]

Originally posted by Tomas Karlsson
BTW does the book explain what happened between Widengren and Hartmann ( I suppose he drove his ususal Bugatti 51)?

On the last day of practice (Saturaday) Hartmann was struggling somewhat and decided to come in to the depot (pit lane) to change something. He started slowing down on the race track but for some reason didn't signal that he was coming into pit lane. Perhaps he didn't see Widengren who was coming at full speed. The two colided. Hartmann was thrown out of the car and hit a fence. He was taken to hospital and advised not to start the race. Widengren went on to finish second.

[Tomas Karlsson]

Great!! Thanks again!

A book in English would be fine!

[Jonas]

Yes, thanks for that info! I didn't even know about any accident between the two. Interesting!

I've seen some photos from the event that were sent to me about a year ago by ankajub. I don't want to post them here before I get his permission to do so. Anyone who could post more photos from the 1933 event? In particular interest to me are the two Alfa Romeos of Widengren and Björnstad.

[indyricefan13]

There are a lot of interesting pictures in Atoyan's book but I do not have permission so I can't post them.
I really liked one pic from 1930. It showed the start finish line and on the fence someone wrote 'I GR'. Looks like somebody was pretty anxious to name the first races in Lviv, the I Grand Prix of... , which at that time wasn't the case.

[indyricefan13]

Hello!
I just found some photos of the Lviv Grand Prix on the Net. Maybe some of you will be interested:
http://www.bugattipa...InPoland01.html

[anjakub]

Only one photo from GP Lwów.
First: Maria Kozmian from other race (probably hillclimb)
Second (retouching) : The Grand Prix Lwow in 1930 not 1931
Third: Count Maurycy Potocki before one of sports test in One-day Concours Drive of the Automobilclub of Poland (25 June 1933)

In text are many errors for example Stanislaw Schwarzstein (correctly Szwarcsztein) was the one of the best Polish drivers not German.

[Jonas]

I found a few photos on this site
As I'm very interested in getting higher resolution photos of Widengren and Björnstad from the 1933 event I wrote to the owner of this site. Unfortunately the mail did not get through.

But I suspect that the photos shown on the site might be scans from the book "Grand Prix Lwowa 1930-1933 - Historic chronicle", is that right?

And how about this Polish book, has it been published? What's the name of this book?

Since I speak neither Ukranian nor Polish I'm solely interested in the photos. So, in that sence, how do these books compare? Do they include much the same photos?

Does anyone know where the books can be bought?

Lots of questions, but I'm very grateful for any help!

[iicarJohn]

The Italian RACI magazine of 15 May 1932 promotes the 1932 race at Lwow and mentions Skolimowski's "win" of 1930. I have photographed the blurb and can share it. The text makes it sound like more of a time trial than a wheel to wheel race. Generous prizes are mentioned rather generically  I also have received some images of Skolimowski in his Alfa 6C1750 SS (chassis 6C0312951) running and camping it up on more than one occasion. If I can get permissions to share here, where shall I post them? John de Boer - The Italian Car Registry

[DKW2]

The commemorative table was opened on 7 October. In the same time was presented new book "Grand Prix Lwowa 1930-1933 - Historic chronicle" written by my Ukrainian friend Artem Atoyan. Very interesting book but in Ukrainian language.


From www.zik.com.ua

 

Hello anjakub. I am interested in the history of Grand Prix Lwowa. Is this book still available? Is it possible to contact with you via e-mail?

Edited by DKW2, 11 March 2024 - 12:55.