70 replies to this topic

[eldougo]

40TH ANNIVERSARY of FORMULA VEE in AUSTRALIA

To be held at Oran Park SOUTH Circuit

SUNDAY 20TH NOVEMBER 2005.


8.00 am. Regularity Scrutineering.
9.00 am Regularity Drivers Briefing.
10.20 am Regularity Qualifying.
12.00 noon 1st Regularity Event
2.20 pm 2nd Regularity Event.

40th Anniversary..........Drivers List.


Frank Fowler Ron Apps
Neil Turner Paul Liston
Burnie Cashin Alan Goldsmith
Verona Larkin Gerry Wilenden
Arthur Thomas Doug Angus
Peter Radkte Gary Rigg
Greg Hepburn Ken Taylor
Steve Normoyle Peter Williamson
Jack Bono Barry Hickson
Kerry Calderbank Don Collyer
Peter Huston Graham Engle
Ian Simpson Frank Kleinig
Bob Briton Berni Heahnle
Fred Vargus Ken Goodwin
Paul Bernisconi Warick Moore
Lorry Camfeild Colin Piper
Rob Nethercote Col Wills
Greg Mackie Tony Swan
Dennis Riley Fred Vogle
John Grant Steve Pash
Terry Smith Paul Cornner
Louise Roy Paul Samuals
Doug Grant Bruce Bloodworth
Gary Quartly Terry Harris
Mark Lavrick Keith Franks
Peter Finlay Geoff Stone
John Moxon Steve Weisner
Stephen David Chris Buckingham
Bob David Leo Geoghegan
John Smith Greg McCombie
Damon Spinks Norm Johnstone
Chris Spinks Mark Zahra
Damon Beck Eamonn Mathews
Terry Quartly Aub Revell
Denis Quartly Neal Revell

Stewart Grant Bruce Moxon
Malcom (P. Williamsons pit crew).
Bill Christie Phillip Revell
Mitch McDonald Sergio Lavamacoco
Bob Muir Ray Johnstone
Kevin Walters Richard Bailey
Paul McDonald Peter Vanheyan
John Philips Gerard Murphy
Chris Lewis Chad Lewis
Borris Orazem Ralph Schofield
Geoff Selby Brian Selby
Michael Trueman Jim Evans

Hope to see all TNFers out there on the day.

Doug Grant.

[Catalina Park]

I will try to get up there but the MJM Roadrunner Vee will not make it. :

[eldougo]

Good see you there.

[Keir]

Anyone want to find me a Vee and a plane ticket ??

[eldougo]

Vee is no problem....Ticket is......Sorry. I hope to have a drive myself ?Hopefully.

[Catalina Park]

I have a car in the shed. You just have to restore it.

Doug, can you talk to your mate Michael Trueman and ask if he has any photos of his old car?

[eldougo]

OK SEE WHAT I CAN DO.

[Catalina Park]

Thanks.

[Ray Bell]

On the fourth line of the list... should that be Gerry Wittenden?

He used to run a P6f in FF, from memory worked at a servo on the corner of Balaclava Road at the Eastwood end.

Lots of spelling errors there... Denis Riley... Laurie Campfield... Graham Engel (be nice to see him again)... Fred Vogel... Paul Corner... Paul Samuels... Bob Britton... Neil Revell... Mark Laverick... Steve Wiessner... Sergio Lavermacocca... Peter Verheyen... Boris Orazem...

But where is the list from? It certainly doesn't include everyone who raced a Vee in NSW, does it? Mark Penkliss, for instance, isn't there.

[Joe Bosworth]

Ray

Good point on not many drivers on the list. Nor many of the first constructors.

I was there for the 1st FV race in Oz and drove in the 2nd and 3rd and probabaly 4 & 5 and don't recognise many names at all. Not going to be there either but I hope they have fun.

Regards

[Ray Bell]

Were you there the day Colin Bond won a race, Joe?

Just noticed... it says 'Gary Quartly'... it was Terry, right?

[Joe Bosworth]

Ray

Very correct as to Terry Q.

My rememberances on FV are very dim as they were the least favourite of anything I ever drove so I can't dredge much up from those sets of brain cells re Colin Bond.

Not many corners on any track while pushing a Vee and not any throttle steer. A metre lost was always a metre never to be re-gained so no sense in much adventure.

No doubt that Frank Kleinig would be the no. 1 best guy to confirm details such as Colin Bond reference.

Incidentally, Frank, KB and Syd Howard were in Perth a year age which resulted in quite a few beers and races re-run and incidents re-hashed.

Regards

[Ray Bell]

Oh, I was there... Colin won the Vee race in the Bardahl Vee, with the strange exhaust sticking straight up and then turning to the back of the car.

[Keir]

Any pics of that strange exhaust ???

During my days in Vee, you would see some very interesting interpretations of the rules !!

[Ray Bell]

I don't have any...

But somebody's bound to.

IIRC, the really strange thing about this race was that it was the only time (again, IIRC) that Bondy drove a Vee, and he was well on the way to being one of the top guns in touring car racing at the time.

By the way, I met someone named Keir the other day!

[Bonde]

Gents,


(Source: John Fabiszewski)

This and hundreds of other very interesting Australian Formula Vee photos from the 1960s through the 1980s are available on 2 very inexpensive CDs from John Fabiszewski [fabiszewski@bigpond.com]. John runs this website: http://www.historicv....com/index.html

I may have overlooked him, but John doesn't appear to be on the entrylist above - maybe he'll only be present in a blazer?

I'd love to see hi-res photos from the event (or elsewhere) of some of the cars and their chassis - it doesn't look like I'll happen to be in Oz anytime soon... :

[Ray Bell]

Oh Keir will just luurrve that site!

Nice shots from Phillip Island... wish I had time to try to identify that one that's unidentified...

[eldougo]

The list was sent to me by John Fabiszewski and it is all NSW vee drivers RAY it thought you would have known that.
John did not race in those days he helped PeterWilliamson ,he currently own the EX Doug Angus Vee.No13(RED) in the Wakefield pics from last year.

I to remember that day at Warwick Farm and Colin Bond great drive.

[Ray Bell]

Who was the Zammit who had a Mk 2 Rennmax? Tony, was it?

Bernie Haehnle, by the way, tell him...

[eldougo]

John apparently has got on interest back from Mr Haehnle. And Zammit i don't know off that name personaly.

[Ray Bell]

From memory he did a bit of work with Britto... it might have been 'Sammut'...

I think there was something to do with Lotus 7 replicas in there somewhere.

[275 GTB-4]

I like the story from Canberra, where former Vee driver Col rescued a Rennmax (?) from its hook hanging from the ceiling of a Plasterers shop in Fyshwick....has restored it and is looking forward to the event.

[Keir]

I raced against a Vee team with the same concept for their exhaust, the team was called "Broccoli" and ran an old Autodynamics Mk4.

Thanks for the pic and link !!

[eldougo]

It was a great weekend for me ,It started with a Barby at John Fabiszewski place ,meeting up with Verona Larkin ,Berine Cashin, Graham Engle,Mark Laverick,Peter Radtkie,Mr Damon Beck(TNFer) and Peter Williamson just a few who turned up. Then at the track on Sunday it was FULL ON,.Faces that i have not seen in 30 plus years,it was easy to pick some and other NO WAY would i have recoinsed them on the street.
The elder stateman was Aub Revell ,still looking good in his 80's ,John Moxan and Bruce (TNFer) meet him for the first time, Denis Riley ,Bob Britton (Still a lovely man) , Kerry Calderbank,Mike Truman,Greg Mc Combie(he's been living in NZfor some time ).And lots more that i will remember later on.
I got to drive a "StandFast" Vee built by John Grant (That is the Grant Family Motto) a fitting car for me to drive ,we only got 2 laps but it was Fun and sure brought back memories going over the Dogleg and into Energol again.
Hopefully i have some PICS later on ,Sorry not to meet up with others that where there.And NO pics of the MJM yet! CatalinaPark ,Engle has some big poster size pics of it.I will take a Digital pic of it soon to send on.
Iam going to a GEAR day next year to have a real drive again.....

[brucemoxon]

I was there - good to meet you Doug.

Great day!

Ray, those names were people who'd contacted John Fab and said they were coming. Pretty heavy NSW bias, as you'd expect. Also, John was most active in the late 70s and early 80s, so they were the folks he was able to recruit.

Yes, there were some missing faces, sadly some are no longer with us (Graham Baker, Vee Assoc Treasurer and Wolfgang Prejawa - former driver - among them.)

I was asked to drive the Moxon Vee in the parade. It's been restored by Paul English and that was a great thrill. Paul's offered me some GEAR and HSRCA drives in it too. What a champion bloke.

Colin Bond drove that car at three meetings - the Vee races that supported the Tasman Cup races in 1970 at Surfers, Warwick Farm and Sandown. Dad drove at those meetings as well - not with quite as much success though; Colin won all three times.

I must say Graham Engel is a pretty enthusiastic sort of guy. Like a toddler full of red cordial! He glides now - funny how many racing people take to the air, isn't it?


Bruce Moxon

[D-Type]

Somewhat OT, but this thread has set me thinking. Which were quicker F Vees or Formula Fords? Apologies for interrupting the Oz nostalgia, but they are more likely to have raced each other there than in Britain or elsewhere in Europe.

[Ray Bell]

They didn't generally race in the same events, though there would have been odd times when it happened...

A Vee would do something in the order of 1:44s at the Farm, a FFord would be about nine seconds faster. A Vee would be subject to full throttle from Polo Corner to the end of the straight, from Creek Corner to the Causeway. The FF would be subject to several lift-offs or brake applications in those distances.

This was in the time of the radial tyres for FFords, too. Later they also had racing tyres and increased that gap.

[brucemoxon]

Yup F Fords were faster. More power, Hewland boxes and proper racing suspensions.

Ray - that WAS Gary Quartley - he's Terry's nephew.



BM

[Bonde]

This thread provides me with the best possible excuse to post the drawing below that I did for John 'Fab' of his 1965 Nota Vee. What I find remarkable about the Australian Vees was how quickly some of them became rather more sophisticated chassis-wise than their American progenitors - actually from the word go. State-of-the art in the US in 65 was Autodynamics, Bobsy Vanguard (with ladder frame) and later marks of Formcar - Zink was another year on.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Bonde
.....What I find remarkable about the Australian Vees was how quickly some of them became rather more sophisticated chassis-wise than their American progenitors - actually from the word go. State-of-the art in the US in 65 was Autodynamics, Bobsy Vanguard (with ladder frame) and later marks of Formcar - Zink was another year on.

Of course, and that was Greg Cusack's fault...

He organised for Britto to design a car, that car broke more ground than any Vee since, in all probability. It was designed as a racing car using a VW engine, not as a platform from which a VW engine could be used for racing. Neat spaceframe and body that just complied with every rule.

Now... who's got a good pic of a CB Vee?

[brucemoxon]

Originally posted by Ray Bell



Now... who's got a good pic of a CB Vee?

Right there on the front page. 'Course, it might be badged a Rennmax. At Silverdale, I think - just at the top, going under the commentary tower.


Bruce Moxon

[Ray Bell]

Which front page is that?

Yeah... I know they're all called Rennmaxes... they were about two months after Vees started! Bruce Burr would get a call, "How do we do this/get that?"... he'd just refer everyone to Britto. So everyone called their cars Rennmaxes.

We want a piccie posted here!

[Catalina Park]

I am sorry that I missed out on the meeting (work) I will try to finish the MJM for the 50th!

Thanks Doug and Bruce for your stories from the meeting.

[eldougo]

;)
Here is your truley leading G.Engle( Mk1) and P.Huston Stag?) at Amaroo Park 1975.Car is a Rennmax Mk1 ,as we talked last weekend and driver that had one of the cars said just how forgiving they where you could get the in to all sort of angles and most of the time you be able to catch it and drive it back on line. MAGIC CAR.
Mk2 drivers said that the next generation was not as forgiving but CLOSE.Bob Britton sure could build a Great Car.



And we did miss you....... Catalina Park. hopr to catch up next year .

[Ray Bell]

A shame Britto never took slides of the cars he built!

I've still got all his slides on my computer, but Lotus 18s and Elfin Catalinas aren't Vees...

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by eldougo
;)
Here is your truley leading G.Engle( Mk1) and P.Huston Stag?) at Amaroo Park 1975.Car is a Rennmax Mk1 ,as we talked last weekend and driver that had one of the cars said just how forgiving they where you could get the in to all sort of angles and most of the time you be able to catch it and drive it back on line. MAGIC CAR.
Mk2 drivers said that the next generation was not as forgiving but CLOSE.Bob Britton sure could build a Great Car.



And we did miss you....... Catalina Park. hopr to catch up next year .

There was a stag at WP Historics today Douglas....sad to see a relatively small field...hope FVee gets their act together soon for all meetings...

[brucemoxon]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Which front page is that?

Yeah... I know they're all called Rennmaxes... they were about two months after Vees started! Bruce Burr would get a call, "How do we do this/get that?"... he'd just refer everyone to Britto. So everyone called their cars Rennmaxes.

We want a piccie posted here!

Ack

Sorry Ray - I meant the front page of John Fab's site - it's of Damon's Rennmax (or CeeBee - whichever).

http://www.historicveeaustralia.com/


Dopey here managed to stuff up liking the URL.


Vees are on the support card for the Tasman Revival too, as long as they get at least 20 cars with CoDs and properly licenced drivers. So Catalina - there's your deadline. We'll try to get Paul there with the Moxon Vee.

Anyone got a lead on where there might be a Porter Vee? All the stories I've heard - I really must see one.

The Porter was built (if that's the word) using a pair of folding saw horses as a jig and the body mould was dug into Jack Porter's back yard and lined with concrete. The bodies actually had the dimpling from the bits of aggregate in the concrete mix. The steering wheel was oxy-cut from a piece of flat steel and wrapped with a split length of garden hose.

I'm told that one car made it to a race meeting but was sent away by the scrutineers, once they'd stopped laughing.



Bruce Moxon

[Joe Bosworth]

Originally posted by Bonde
.....What I find remarkable about the Australian Vees was how quickly some of them became rather more sophisticated chassis-wise than their American progenitors - actually from the word go. State-of-the art in the US in 65 was Autodynamics, Bobsy Vanguard (with ladder frame) and later marks of Formcar - Zink was another year on.

Response by Ray Bell:

Of course, and that was Greg Cusack's fault...

He organised for Britto to design a car, that car broke more ground than any Vee since, in all probability. It was designed as a racing car using a VW engine, not as a platform from which a VW engine could be used for racing. Neat spaceframe and body that just complied with every rule.

Now... who's got a good pic of a CB Vee?



Ray, it has taken me a little while to find some photos that I knew were out there.

I can’t help but bring up a couple of photos of the Nota Vee which is arguably the first designed and built Vee in OZ. Twenty odd something were constructed and sold starting in 1965.

A quick look at the chassis and one can see that it was using absolutely cutting edge design features of the day and in fact compares very favourably with my 1965 BT15 F3 car. Lay down seating, low central fuel tank and chassis with all but perfect triangulation rather stand out. Less clear is simplicity of bracketing and clean feeding of loads into the frame tubes. My only regret was not thinking of the zed bar rear suspension that came out of the US as a feature a year or so later.

I would like to see similar photos of other Vees from the era to compare.

Without taking anything away from your comments praising Britto as per the above, I believe that comparisons with the Nota Vee would show that Nota probably broke more ground and some have said that it still compares favourably with present day Vee chassis’.

‘Course, I would say that, being responsible for most of its design and some of its construction.

Regards

[eldougo]

Great job there JOE... Finding those Nota pics, Wonderfull it sure looks funny without a roll bar the fan housing being the highest point. JohnMedley will be rapped in pics of his FAV racing carsMarque.
Seeing your having being responsible for most of its design ,is a real feather in your cap, however i still think the Rennmax had the edge over most Nota's that i have seen race and raced against later on in my life,they just did not seem to enjoy the success the Britto's cars had here in NSW.
I have told John Fab to check out the PICS you posted.

[Pils1989]

Just found an old Vee and I can't wait to work on it!

[Bonde]

For any Vee-interested TNF'ers in the vicinity of Munich, there's a Formula Vee (Formel Vau) special exhibition at the Verkehrszentrum of the Deutsches Museum ending March 30. In case anyone is able to go, please post pictures here (or on the 'personal photos from museums' thread).

[Bonde]

Antoine,

Is that an American Beach or a European 'clone'?

[jeremy durward]

hey does anyone know anything about the lepton formula vees made in south aus? i bought one a year ago for $1000 and i'm looking to restore it to historic but i can't find the orig body. the one i got it with is really boxy and heavy and i'm actually currently converting an elfin ng body to fit



this is it as i picked it up



and this is it minus body at collingrove hillclimb

[Pils1989]

Originally posted by Bonde
Antoine,

Is that an American Beach or a European 'clone'?

A Beach Mk5 but I'm not 100% sure yet.

[Jacer]

Originally posted by jeremy durward
hey does anyone know anything about the lepton formula vees made in south aus? i bought one a year ago for $1000 and i'm looking to restore it to historic but i can't find the orig body. the one i got it with is really boxy and heavy and i'm actually currently converting an elfin ng body to fit



this is it as i picked it up



and this is it minus body at collingrove hillclimb

Hi Jeremy, There is a guy over in NSW who runs a Lepton. It has an NG top and nose but different sides. It will be running at Bathurst this weekend. I'll see if he has the original log book with it to see if there are any pics. Funny we all thought of it as a one off now it appears that it's at least a 2 off!

[jeremy durward]

Originally posted by Jacer

Hi Jeremy, There is a guy over in NSW who runs a Lepton. It has an NG top and nose but different sides. It will be running at Bathurst this weekend. I'll see if he has the original log book with it to see if there are any pics. Funny we all thought of it as a one off now it appears that it's at least a 2 off!

wierd, thats exactly what i'm doing currently with the body. could you get some pics chassis and all so i could compare the cars? i believe he made a few of them here in sa. mine was involved in an accident which destroyed the original bodywork and the only pic i have is a far off shot of it on the banking at A.I.R.

here's a current pic.

[Jacer]

Jeremy, I've PM'd you the details of the guy running one here and gave him the link to the page. His has had some mods as I know he had a front end crash in it about 2 years ago that needed chassis repairs but he may have some photos of the car as he bought it.Hope it helps.
David

[Bonde]

There's a link to the Deutsches Museum special exhibition I mentioned in a previous post here

[eldougo]

Thanks for that link Bonde ,it sure would be good to be there that weekend.(i am going to Europe in Sept 2008.)

[chequer57]

The things you find when using a search engine in various photo storage sites:

Louise Roy (in I assume a Nimbus)


Regards,

Ian