The Winter Testing 05/06 Thread
#1
Posted 06 November 2005 - 00:59
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#2
Posted 06 November 2005 - 06:42
Vijay
#3
Posted 06 November 2005 - 08:56
Engine dyno is much more better and much less exspensive.
http://www.f1racing....hp?newsID=98816
#4
Posted 06 November 2005 - 09:03
Renault budget isn't one of the biggest? They certainly did good job with their resources!Originally posted by stardust
Briatore said in an interview that has no sense testing engines on the old cars adapted for it.
Engine dyno is much more better and much less exspensive.
http://www.f1racing....hp?newsID=98816
#5
Posted 06 November 2005 - 10:00
Briatore can say many things but the only way you know for sure is when you are testing the engine in the real thing.Originally posted by stardust
Briatore said in an interview that has no sense testing engines on the old cars adapted for it.
Engine dyno is much more better and much less exspensive.
http://www.f1racing....hp?newsID=98816
#6
Posted 06 November 2005 - 10:05
Originally posted by carbonfibre
Briatore can say many things but the only way you know for sure is when you are testing the engine in the real thing.
In an old chassis? Briatore is right, the only reason to test the engine in a 2005 car is to show off or get driver feedback - but for that, waiting for the 2006 makes sense, too.
#7
Posted 06 November 2005 - 10:07
Originally posted by carbonfibre
Briatore can say many things but the only way you know for sure is when you are testing the engine in the real thing.
Renault won both WDC and WCC this year, which probably should be taken as an indication that they know what they are doing.
#8
Posted 06 November 2005 - 10:10
Originally posted by carbonfibre
Briatore can say many things but the only way you know for sure is when you are testing the engine in the real thing.
Isnt that what FB is saying?
#9
Posted 06 November 2005 - 10:49
In a way but i think testing a engine in a car on a real circuit is much better then testing it on the dyno all the time.Originally posted by Clatter
Isnt that what FB is saying?
And i think the other teams also test there engine's on the dyno every day, with a dyno you can simulate many things but it's just not the real deal.
#10
Posted 06 November 2005 - 11:00
Originally posted by The Quiet One
I hope to start the discussion on winter testing. I am surprised that one has not started as Ferrari have already tested at Vallelunga. Most Teams will start in December at Jerez. It is great to have that info on the front page of Atlas (It will always be Atlas for me).
There was a thread started but it was a bit early http://forums.autosp...&threadid=83268
I know this because of my great contribution at the bottom of the page
#11
Posted 06 November 2005 - 11:02
#12
Posted 06 November 2005 - 12:35
Originally posted by carbonfibre
In a way but i think testing a engine in a car on a real circuit is much better then testing it on the dyno all the time.
And i think the other teams also test there engine's on the dyno every day, with a dyno you can simulate many things but it's just not the real deal.
As an engine builder Renault have done a damn fine job over the years, so I think its one of the occasions when you have to accept that they probably know better than you.
#13
Posted 06 November 2005 - 12:48
#14
Posted 06 November 2005 - 13:11
Originally posted by cavallinö
I think for vibration testing and all, testing the engine on a modifiedchassis would help?
The engine is an integral part of the chassis, so testing it in a modified chassis is not the same.
#15
Posted 06 November 2005 - 13:24
Originally posted by Clatter
The engine is an integral part of the chassis, so testing it in a modified chassis is not the same.
It wouldn't be the same, but in the same way as teams use hyrbrid chassis to test out all othe components, the engine will still show the spikes where it's most likely to induce resonace if not properly damped...
#16
Posted 06 November 2005 - 14:54
Who is already confirmed as a testdriver and who is in the frame for testdriver for next season ?
Anyone with facts, thoughts, rumours ??????
#17
Posted 06 November 2005 - 15:03
#18
Posted 07 November 2005 - 19:59
I am in a big business event in Brazil, and there is a Williams on display at Petrobras stand.
Of course, I went there and made the question about next year. BMW or Williams?
They made the right choice. Will stay with Williams
#19
Posted 07 November 2005 - 20:00
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#20
Posted 11 November 2005 - 18:54
#21
Posted 11 November 2005 - 19:01
erm...they will run a restricted V10.Originally posted by quasi C
Turns out Renault will test with a V8 before january. They will run with a V10-cut to 8 cylinders. So maybe Briatore had a re-think or he just wants to "show off like some other teams"...
The V8 will only run in the new car.
#22
Posted 11 November 2005 - 19:03
They only get their engine's then? Ferrari is already testing them for 2 months now and i believe Horner said that they would recieve their Ferrari engine's in late november or early december.Originally posted by race addicted
Red Bull wont test much either, untill mid- or late January, when they get their new engines, and have their RB2 ready.
Here is a quote from an article on this site it's dated 7th june 2005.
With Formula One switching to V8 engines for 2006, Ferrari are still working on the development of their power units, and Red Bull are not due to receive their first batch of customer engines until November at the earliest.
So the Austrian-owned squad are considering plans to build an interim car in order to test the power-units out before their 2006 car hits the track in January.
And since Ferrari are running 2 months ahead of schedule with the new engine i suppose that december will be the month Red Bull will recieve the first Ferrari V8 engine's.
#23
Posted 11 November 2005 - 19:37
#24
Posted 11 November 2005 - 19:41
The same thing went wrong at McLaren. The mercedes engine was ok on the dyno but once in the MP4/19 it broke down very often because it had some serious vibration issues with the chassis.
#25
Posted 12 November 2005 - 10:08
...and that is still the plan. Renault will have a january introduction of their new chassis with the new engine. To create a hybrid car, as other teams, is more complicated for them because they currently have a 72degree engine interfacing with the chassis whereas all other teams already have 90degree engines. It's a matter of weighing the benefits against the costs.Originally posted by quasi C
timstr11: Around the time when Toyota and Ferrari were first running with V8s or cut V10 FB said it was pointless until the new chassis, that the dyno could simulate everything etc. It was in an interview with Autosprint.
#26
Posted 12 November 2005 - 10:56
#27
Posted 12 November 2005 - 10:58
You can't start soon enough so you can sort out the initial problems a engine might have.
#28
Posted 12 November 2005 - 11:06
Originally posted by carbonfibre
Flavio can say a lot of things but i bet he would like to run a V8 already on the track. With dyno's you can simulate a lot off things but when you put the engine in the car that's where you can really see if it all fits together.
The same thing went wrong at McLaren. The mercedes engine was ok on the dyno but once in the MP4/19 it broke down very often because it had some serious vibration issues with the chassis.
And thats probably the point.
Putting the engine into a hybrid car may show up problems that will not be present in a car designed for the new engine, or may possibly show erroneous problems.
#29
Posted 12 November 2005 - 11:22
#30
Posted 12 November 2005 - 15:10
Originally posted by carbonfibre
True that might be the case but i still think it's smart to also run the engine on the dyno and ontrack.
I think it's fairly simple to mimic the circuit on a modern F1 dyno, including known loads and resonances for a given Chassis. However, it's all but impossible to predict resonance of a chassis other than by building it, so nice to have perhaps, but ultimately pretty worthless as you can't make any structural alterations based on the findings.
#31
Posted 12 November 2005 - 15:24
#32
Posted 12 November 2005 - 15:27
Yes you can chance the suspension points etc which maybe gives you less vibrations etc.Originally posted by quasi C
Couldn't you change the way the engine is installed on the chassis or the location of ancilliaries etc? I'm sure there's a reason teams are running V8s early other than tyre testing..
Trust me it's worth testing it out even in a intrim car.
#33
Posted 12 November 2005 - 15:36
Originally posted by carbonfibre
They only get their engine's then? Ferrari is already testing them for 2 months now and i believe Horner said that they would recieve their Ferrari engine's in late november or early december.
And since Ferrari are running 2 months ahead of schedule with the new engine i suppose that december will be the month Red Bull will recieve the first Ferrari V8 engine's.
Hmm, thanks, that's good to know. I had heard that they wouldn't recieve engines till after new-year.
#34
Posted 12 November 2005 - 15:37
Originally posted by carbonfibre
Yes you can chance the suspension points etc which maybe gives you less vibrations etc.
Trust me it's worth testing it out even in a intrim car.
The only logic is so that the first car you race is the second car you build. This only really owes anything to the Toyota/Lola pre entry test mule than anything else. The new chassis are unlikely to have anything in common with these particular breeds of mules...
#35
Posted 12 November 2005 - 15:38
It might be right if things have changed but as far as i know they will recieve their engine's late november early december.Originally posted by race addicted
Hmm, thanks, that's good to know. I had heard that they wouldn't recieve engines till after new-year.
#36
Posted 12 November 2005 - 15:50
#37
Posted 12 November 2005 - 16:24
And yes Sauber also got the 2005 engines last year even before Ferrari tested them in their new car because it couldnt be fitted in the F2004M, so Ferrari isnt that shy about giving the engine's away early.
#38
Posted 12 November 2005 - 16:34
Originally posted by carbonfibre
No idea if the deal also includes a gearbox. Normally they make their own gearbox (Sauber always had apart from 2003).
And yes Sauber also got the 2005 engines last year even before Ferrari tested them in their new car because it couldnt be fitted in the F2004M, so Ferrari isnt that shy about giving the engine's away early.
Sauber only got a modified 2004 engine, not the 2005 engine.
Sauber used the engine from the F 2004M the whole year.
#39
Posted 26 November 2005 - 10:00
This as we build-up to the extremely exciting launch season.
Any news who will test for Sauber apart from Heidfeld?
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#40
Posted 26 November 2005 - 10:02
Are you sure about that? As far as i know Sauber got the new engine.Originally posted by peroa
Sauber only got a modified 2004 engine, not the 2005 engine.
Sauber used the engine from the F 2004M the whole year.
edit: according to the official Formula one yearbook 2005 Sauber got the Ferrari 055 engine the same engine Ferrari used in the F2005.
So as i said before: Sauber got the new engine even before Ferrari was able to run it.
#41
Posted 26 November 2005 - 10:19
just Heidfeld, no Villeneuve or other driversOriginally posted by Timstr11
Ferrari's disobedience aside, winter testing starts in earnest coming Monday with McLaren, Toyota and Sauber.
This as we build-up to the extremely exciting launch season.
Any news who will test for Sauber apart from Heidfeld?
#42
Posted 26 November 2005 - 11:02
Come to think of it, tyre testing will be a bit difficult for both BMW-Sauber and Willams-Cosworth as they both will have to do tyre testing in a heavily modified chassis. While other teams that have continuity of engine can 'simply' detune the V10 in the current chassis to have a known base for tyre testing.Originally posted by Keffo
just Heidfeld, no Villeneuve or other drivers
#43
Posted 26 November 2005 - 11:38
First 056 V8 engine (in an F2004M) successfully completes 1400KM and has a power of 700HP , in that heat that is quite impressive for this stage of the season IMO. They hope to have 750 HP by the time the season starts. A F2005 with a cut V10 was doing the tyre testing.
F2004M V8 - 1:34.455 - 1731KM
F2005V10-cut: 1:34.588 - 1366 KM
#44
Posted 26 November 2005 - 13:23
#45
Posted 26 November 2005 - 13:25
#46
Posted 26 November 2005 - 13:31
Originally posted by carbonfibre
Are you sure about that? As far as i know Sauber got the new engine.
edit: according to the official Formula one yearbook 2005 Sauber got the Ferrari 055 engine the same engine Ferrari used in the F2005.
So as i said before: Sauber got the new engine even before Ferrari was able to run it.
In a german forum we had a big "strong" debate about this untill a user decided to write an email to Sauber and they confirmed that they would use the engine from the F2004M the whole year.
I can give you the link if you want, where you can read the emails.
#47
Posted 26 November 2005 - 13:32
#48
Posted 26 November 2005 - 13:33
................
Originally posted by quasi C
They haven't even track tested their engine yet though. Ferrari probably have a 730HP engine on the dyno too. As do all the other manufacturers I guess.
Cosworth has a certain V8-pedigree though, and as they got a small head-start on Ferrari, I would think that once they get their V8 in the Williams, and on track, it would produce more than "just" 700 HP.
Note that I wrote BHP on Cosworth.
#49
Posted 26 November 2005 - 14:07
Originally posted by race addicted
Cosworth has a certain V8-pedigree though, and as they got a small head-start on Ferrari, I would think that once they get their V8 in the Williams, and on track, it would produce more than "just" 700 HP.
Note that I wrote BHP on Cosworth.
Plus they released footage of their engine hitting 20,000 RPM. Now whether this can actually be performed over a race distance isn't yet known, but Cosworth has loads of V8 experience.
So far engine manufacturers have been talking about 19,000 RPM and vibration difficulties. Maybe Cosworth have learnt how to get around this problem and get to 20,000 RPM.
#50
Posted 26 November 2005 - 14:33
Ferrari is know for their allround engine, it lasts foreever and they have a great powercurve. A good powercurve is worth a lot more then having 10 HP more.