20 replies to this topic

[mcerqueira]

Just been thinking about how the driving technique for tire warmup has changed in the last few years.

Nowdays it seem as the car is more shaken violently than the quick zig-zag of some years ago. It looks rather impressive to, you can see the car sliding very rapidly at the same time, with controlled wheel spin. Come to think of it I think this must be recent 'cause I don't recall seeing this 3 or 4 years ago...

Anyone care to comment? Videos would be nice

...and just as a comic relief just watch this video to see how the real pro's do it!



****** warming up

[Ross Stonefeld]

They always say it doesnt work, what do the engineers here say?

I think its more to keep the tires clean on the surface.

[Ben]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
They always say it doesnt work, what do the engineers here say?

I think its more to keep the tires clean on the surface.

Having seen a lot of temp sensor data recently I doubt it has much effect. Any surface temp peaks are fairly short lived and this sort of thing won´t generate a huge amount of bulk temperature. A long controlled stop would probably generate more sustained temps.

Ben

[Slumberer]

If I remember correctly, Brundle said that it doesn't do a whole lot of good, but it gave you something to do in the car while you were trundling around.

[sweetreid]

Well, that video was about the greatest thing ever. Doing the zig-zag is probably something akin to pulling a wheelie on a motorcycle before a race. Doesn't do anything, but lets you know you're in control.

[Greg Locock]

It lets you feel how the car is on the cold tires, maybe? Plus a bit of a wank.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I think its an extension of Fat Boy's seemingly pet peeve that a driver has to be doing 'something'

I always did it more often on a safety car (vs pace car) lap, because you were maintaining a high focus but with much lower and slower stimuli, so you were giving yourself literally something to do. Id give it a few sharp kicks back and forth on the straight enough to chirp the tires but realised one day before learning the lesson, I could potentially spin out doing it.

Ive seen guys do full brake pedals going down the pitlane to check the bias, but I wouldnt advise getting into that habit because you'll eventually have someone going over the top of you.

Whenever I'd do any sort of warmup procedure whether a practice lap or pre-race recon/pace car lap I'd weave gently on the straight (more like a drunk than a caffeine addict) to get the oil in the suspension warmed up (I may have imagined that one in my own little engineering world) and any tire work I'd do mid corner. So if I'm mid right hander and have 45 degrees lock to the right I'd give it a few sharp jabs to 125 just to slide the front tires and clean them off.

A lot of the tricks like that I learned watching CART races, especially on street courses. Long Beach 99 when Montoya was the master on getting his car ready and ultimately jumping the field on the restarts, when you'd see him do wheel work mid corner or even on the straights you could see the chunks and marbles popping up into the camera when he was doing it, and something I always remember Bobby Rahal saying that you needed to spin the rears a few solid times to wipe them off.

I think my favorite of all time was the final restart of the first Handford wing US500 when Zanardi was leading I think Vasser to the restart and they're doing their little dance on the backstraight and Zanardi decides to go mid weave to surprise everyone and while he holds the angle beautifully he leaves some frightening darkies down the back straight.

[mini696]

I've noticed that the Renaults do it more than the others (especially McLaren)... The rookies just seem to copy whatever the car in front is doing.

I still laugh when someone comes a cropper when doing it, cos I always believed it is a waste of time.

[zac510]

Reminds me of the drags (1/4 mile).
Doing a burnout on street tyres in the water is of dubious benefit!

Of course if they don't let you drive around it, then you have to do a burnout to get the water off!

[mcerqueira]

I don't recall anyone in F1 spinning out due to tire warmup zigzaging, that would be hilarious. I do recall people spinning out in the warmup lap though

I guess it must have some benefit cause some seasoned drivers do it. I remeber Montoya doing a rather spectacular shake out this year, don't remember the race though...

[McGuire]

Originally posted by zac510
Reminds me of the drags (1/4 mile).
Doing a burnout on street tyres in the water is of dubious benefit!

Of course if they don't let you drive around it, then you have to do a burnout to get the water off!

Also, when they make you drive through the water box the front tires will drip water right on the path of the rear tires...and the wet front tires may slip and prevent accurate staging, or may even cause you to redlight. All because the track is trying to save a little time.

So here is what I do: whatever I have to do, which is to say whatever I want. As far as I am concerned, once they pull me forward the responsibility for handling the car is mine and it's my race track. If I need to drive around the water box or back the car into it, that's what I do. If the "official" in the staging area has a problem with that and tries to bumrush me, I shut off the car in the middle of the lane, climb out and spend the next five or ten minutes carefully, calmly and politely explaining it to him, walking him around the various points of interest in the staging area and pointing out the relevant issues. If he gives me a hard time I start over at the beginning and explain it to him again. I am a patient and helpful person and am willing to take as much time with him as required until he understands it fully.

I find I usually don't have any problems after that.

[McGuire]

Swerving won't heat the tires but it will clean the buildup off them. The best tire-warming procedure is a series of short holeshots and hard brake applications, which will put siginificant heat in the rear (drive) tires and the brake heat will toast up the front tires a bit as well.

Still, as Ben said, nothing will heat the tires close to operating temp. The best thing is to have a driver who knows how to drive cold tires...not easy because the pressures are down too; in some cases the car is waddling around on the rims. Montoya was the best I ever saw on cold tires.

[wegmann]

Originally posted by mcerqueira
I don't recall anyone in F1 spinning out due to tire warmup zigzaging, that would be hilarious. I do recall people spinning out in the warmup lap though

It was slightly damp, but the Ice Man himself spun at Malaysia a couple years ago during the warmup lap.

[Spunout]

It was slightly damp, but the Ice Man himself spun at Malaysia a couple years ago during the warmup lap.

And when it comes to spinning OUT, remember DC?

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Originally posted by mcerqueira
I don't recall anyone in F1 spinning out due to tire warmup zigzaging, that would be hilarious.

How about Michael Schumacher himself, all the way back in 2005 Grand Prix of China?

[mini696]

Originally posted by McGuire in some cases the car is waddling around on the rims. [/B]

Remember the incar shot of MS's front tyre after following the SC?? Not sure of the race. Looked like the whole wheel bearing was shot.

[McGuire]

I don't have the facts on F1, but in current Champ Car practice the cold tire pressures may be as low as 15-17 PSI. Couple that with a full load of fuel and the driver can have a real handful. The car is shifting around on the rims and crashing the tub floor over the bumps, what a deal.

One of the most remarkable things I have ever seen (and heard!) in a Champ Car race was the start at San Jose this year as 18 cars in single file, on cold tires and full tanks, flew over the street car tracks in the front chicane.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Indeed. If you didnt see it, there's no way for those of us who did to accurately describe it.

[Engineguy]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Indeed. If you didnt see it, there's no way for those of us who did to accurately describe it.

I've got the entire race as an MPEG file (about 6 gigabytes)... I've captured dozens of shots from it trying to get a still shot that portrays the violence, but none really come close to the video.

Here's one... nose slamming the pavement (loudly), and six inches of air under the rear tires...

[F1flagger]

Originally posted by mini696
I've noticed that the Renaults do it more than the others

Kimi and Fernando have gotten my upmost attention with their tire warming practices. Somewhere I've got them on video (being a marshall the camera sits trackside) and they just seem to send the car into a frenzy to get all four tires sliding seemingly four different directions. I'm a bit ignorant about Bulletin Board Technology, is it possible to attach an mpeg here?

[desmo]

Unfortunately it isn't. You need to upload the clip to a web server (your ISP most likely will provide that) and then post a link to it.