25 replies to this topic

[aerogi]

WM P87. This is somewhat of a mystery to me. I wonder how they changed tyres? Both front and rear tyres... does anyone know? Did the whole bodywork come off? :

Source: Auto Hebdo n° 576, June 3rd 1987

[Graham Clayton]

aerogi,

This photo from 1988 answers your question - the whole rear bodywork lifted up:

http://www.racingspo...-06-12-052a.jpg

[arttidesco]

WM P87. This is somewhat of a mystery to me. I wonder how they changed tyres? Both front and rear tyres... does anyone know? Did the whole bodywork come off? :

Source: Auto Hebdo n° 576, June 3rd 1987

I believe it is fair to say at this stage WM's main concern was to set the fastest speed on the Mulsanne Straight (pre chicanes) in an event that happened to be a 24 hour race and that the time it took to change the tyres was not of any great concern to the team since the PRV motors rarely lasted the race .

On one occasion I remember a call going out on the Friday before a race to see if anyone amongst the spectators had a PRV V6 distributor cap they could lend the team for the race.

I seem to remember one year the WM team set out to go better than 400 km/h does anyone remember if they achieved that goal in either practice or a race ?

[Ray Bell]

I'm pretty sure one or two of them finished the year I was there...

That was '81. They had one 'blinder' who went for a quick speed down the straight, but they had spare engines and everything there to keep a car going through the whole event.

I had a photo of the spare engine but it got (very sadly!) lost in a move I made a few years later.

[Duc-Man]

They got it in 1988.
I googled a bit around.

[Tim Murray]

I seem to remember one year the WM team set out to go better than 400 km/h does anyone remember if they achieved that goal in either practice or a race ?

As Duc Man says, they finally achieved their ambition in 1988, when Roger Dorchy was officially timed at 405 km/h down Mulsanne. As I understand it this happened about three hours into the race, and the car retired soon after.

[Alan Cox]

As Duc Man says, they finally achieved their ambition in 1988, when Roger Dorchy was officially timed at 405 km/h down Mulsanne.

251.6 mph, no less. Hair-raising

[Red Socks]

Oh we,re not back to Eddie Jordan again are we?

[arttidesco]

That would be the #4 P79/80 of Denis Morin, Charles Mendez & Xavier Mathiot which came in 13th, 47 laps behind the winner Ray

Crazy to think of a stock block PRV V6 being faster than a 917 Flat 12 thanks Duc Man

Retirement soon after was probably a result of taping up all the cooling ducts I imagine Tim.

[arttidesco]

Oh we,re not back to Eddie Jordan again are we?

Who ?

[Jager]

Here's a collection of relevent excepts from the Bigmoney Racing summary of the 1988 Le Mans Race : http://www.bigmoneyr.../lemans88.shtml

At the other end of the spectrum lurked the French WM team. Two cars were entered, one new P88 for the whole 24 hours, plus the remarkable low-downforce, high-speed, low-common sense P87 entered expressly for the goal of breaking the imaginary and utterly meaningless 400kph "barrier" on the recently resurfaced four-mile Mulsanne straight. They even gave this mad project a formal name: Objectiv 400.

An hour into the race Objectiv 400 was running to its bizarre plan.



Dorchy pitted the Peugeot-powered No. 51; the crew taped up all the air orifices that could impede ultimate velocity, trimmed the car for warp speed and sent poor Roger out to set a new, totally unofficial Mulsanne speed record. His efforts had perfectly predictable results: the 400kph "barrier" was broken with five kph to spare. However, it ruined the Peugeot engine and ended the WM team’s Le Mans adventure long before dusk. The team’s new P88 had devoured its gearbox early in the second hour so, with mission accomplished, there was nothing left to do but vacate the pits and celebrate the success of Objectiv 400. Vin encore.

As two chicanes were added to the Mulsanne Straight not long afterwards in 1990, the WM's 405kmh speed records still stands and is unlikely to be broken.

Bizarre released a 1:43 model of this car just a couple of months ago for those that like such things (though its already proving difficult to find).

Edited by Jager, 02 August 2014 - 18:07.

[arttidesco]

At the other end of the spectrum lurked the French WM team. Two cars were entered, one new P88 for the whole 24 hours, plus the remarkable low-downforce, high-speed, low-common sense P87 entered expressly for the goal of breaking the imaginary and utterly meaningless 400kph "barrier" on the recently resurfaced four-mile Mulsanne straight. They even gave this mad project a formal name: Objectiv 400.

Dorchy pitted the Peugeot-powered No. 51; the crew taped up all the air orifices that could impede ultimate velocity, trimmed the car for warp speed and sent poor Roger out to set a new, totally unofficial Mulsanne speed record. His efforts had perfectly predictable results: the 400kph "barrier" was broken with five kph to spare. However, it ruined the Peugeot engine and ended the WM team’s Le Mans adventure long before dusk. The team’s new P88 had devoured its gearbox early in the second hour so, with mission accomplished, there was nothing left to do but vacate the pits and celebrate the success of Objectiv 400. Vin encore.

And they say us Englaenders are eccentric ! Vive la France !

[P.Dron]

WM stands for Welter Meunier. Welter is Gerard of that ilk, a clever aerodynamicist and a gifted car stylist. He is generally regarded as being more responsible than anyone else for the Peugeot 205, a design icon, though (in my opinion) the Peugeots that emerged during his more recent stint as the French company's chief designer were rather disappointing.

[arttidesco]

WM stands for Welter Meunier. Welter is Gerard of that ilk, a clever aerodynamicist and a gifted car stylist. He is generally regarded as being more responsible than anyone else for the Peugeot 205, a design icon, though (in my opinion) the Peugeots that emerged during his more recent stint as the French company's chief designer were rather disappointing.

Do you have dates for Welter's more 'recent stint' at Peugeot Peter ? Has he been responsible for any models for different manufacturers ?

Edited by arttidesco, 20 July 2011 - 17:47.

[Tim Murray]

He left Peugeot in 2007, presumably retiring at age 65:

http://translate.goo...l...&prmd=ivnso

http://www.topgear.c...ories/10/1.html

[arttidesco]

Thanks Tim

[Ray Bell]

Is he the genius who penned the 406 coupe?

That was a stunning looking car!

I met these blokes when I was at Le Mans, they showed me a lot of their stuff and told me all about their engines. Fascinating that they were using standard cranks, rods and blocks with those twin cam heads and big fat air pumps on them...

[P.Dron]

Is he the genius who penned the 406 coupe?

No - that was by Pininfarina.

[Catalina Park]

No - that was by Pininfarina.

Best remembered for the Morris 1100.

[Ray Bell]

Ah well... he might have done this one:



I think this was doing a fair clip when I snapped the shot, by the way.

[Henri Greuter]

As two chicanes were added to the Mulsanne Straight not long afterwards in 1990, the WM's 405kmh speed records still stands and is unlikely to be broken.

I remember something that the Sauber-Mercedesses of 1989 also went slightly over 400 km/h ???



henri

[arttidesco]

I remember something that the Sauber-Mercedesses of 1989 also went slightly over 400 km/h ???



henri

I saw a source that said the Sauber Mercs were timed at 'only' 399kp/h on the Mulsanne Straight in 1989, but it might have been 'Wiki' so best to confirm with a knowledgeable TNFer before quoting me on it.

[Tim Murray]

According to Motoring News Acheson's Sauber-Mercedes topped 408 km/h in qualifying, with Schlesser slightly slower in the pole position car.

[arttidesco]

According to Motoring News Acheson's Sauber-Mercedes topped 408 km/h in qualifying, with Schlesser slightly slower in the pole position car.

I wonder what the C-9's managed in the race ?

Not exactly comparing like with like since the WM was effectively in qualifying spec for it's timed run during the race.

[Glengavel]

M-B then decided to give up on the speed record and go for the altitude record instead.

[doc knutsen]

I wonder what the C-9's managed in the race ?

Not exactly comparing like with like since the WM was effectively in qualifying spec for it's timed run during the race.

The Moity/Teissedre yearbook has got comprehensive tables of lap times and top speeds, in qualifying and in the race. The #62 Sauber qualified at 3.15.04 for pole position, reaching a top speed of 373 km/h and an average of 249,926 km/h. The #62 car qualified second, at 3.15.67, reaching a top speed of 400,0 km/h while the #63 car qualified 11th at 2.22.86, reaching 377 km/h on the Mulsanne. Top speeds recorded in the race were 376, 386 and 380 km/t respectively. To put that in prespective, the Ferte/Ferte/Salazar XJR 9 Jaguar reached 386 km/h in qualifying, doing the same speed in the race (no boost change on the old atmo V12...)
All the Porsches were below 373 km/h with such as Larrauri doing only 348 km/h. Stuck qualified the 962 at 3.19 despie giving away more than 30 km/h to the Saubers. The quickest Toyota was at 377 while Roger Dorchy did 388 in the WM Peugeot, and none of the Nissans did more than 345. Among the C2 cars, the works Spice of Velez did 337 with the Del Bello Tiga clocking a remarkable 369 km/h yet it qualified at a lap time of 3.50.82 compared with that of the Velez/Adams Spice at 3.41.04
Interestingly, the best race lap times dipped into the 3.21s for both the Stuck/Wollek 962 and the Ferte Jaguar, with the Saubers doing best times in the 22s and 23s.

Edited by doc knutsen, 22 July 2011 - 08:50.