233 replies to this topic

[Hyatt]

according to german 'Auto Motor und Sport' McLaren will loose Nicholas Tombazis together with current aerodynamic chief Peter Prodomou and Paddy Lowe. No reasons were given.

[F1Champion]

(Here's hoping he wants to come back to Ferrari! )

[Ricardo F1]

That would be bad . . . . wonder if they've been lured over to Newey's new home!

[K-One]

Seems that Red bull has all the money in the world, but weird for leaving Mac as he was quite recently promoted.

[jokuvaan]

Abandon the ship, time to launch escape pods?

Very very strange news...

[Dragonfly]

I didn't see such news there.
Link please?

[Calorus]

"To finish first, first you have to finish" - Ron

Maybe that should be "To finish first, first you have to start" - Ron

[Hyatt]

Originally posted by Dragonfly
I didn't see such news there.
Link please?

Link

[Cosmograph]

Were they not locked up on contract until at least the end of the coming season? What type of operation is Ron Dennis running over there If the rumours are true and they loose Newey and the Tambazis in short order, we can probably expect the Kimi 2007 Ferrari rumours to gather force.

[peroa]

Firstly, AMS doesn`t qualify as a reliable source.

Secondly, IF it is true, then good night.

[Timstr11]

Originally posted by Dragonfly
I didn't see such news there.
Link please?

Link

[Calorus]

Originally posted by Cosmograph
Were they not locked up on contract until at least the end of the coming season? What type of operation is Ron Dennis running over there If the rumours are true and they loose Newey and the Tambazis in short order, we can probably expect the Kimi 2007 Ferrari rumours to gather force.

I rather fear it's not so much what is Ron running as what Adrian running. Maybe Tambazi was happy with the old regime and still feels that they have unfinshed business...?

[Timstr11]

Originally posted by peroa
Firstly, AMS doesn`t qualify as a reliable source.

Secondly, IF it is true, then good night.

Excuse me?!? In my experience they are pretty well informed. Several news items published by them first turned out to be true.

[f1rules]

if true, then very bad news indeed. Amus is normally a very reliable source

[peroa]

I remember that a driver from Finnland wanted to sue them and they apologized to him in the next issue for writing bullshit.

I don`t think that qualifies as professional journalism.

[Timstr11]

The article says Tombazis will be a year on gardening leave, so if true no other team will have immediate benefit. It also says the head of aero and an electronics engineer offered themselves to the opposition....

Several big teams are expanding aero staff at the moment.
Honda will operate a 3rd (new) tunnel starting early next year.
Toyota will have an additional tunnel by the end of next year...plenty of opportunity I'd say.
Both teams could use a star chief aerodynamicist ;)

[peroa]

Originally posted by Timstr11
The article says Tombazis will be a year on gardening leave, so if true no other team will have immediate benefit. It also says the head of aero and an electronics engineer offered themselves to the opposition....

Several big teams are expanding aero staff at the moment.
Honda will operate a 3rd (new) tunnel starting early next year.
Toyota will have an additional tunnel by the end of next year...plenty of opportunity I'd say.
Both teams could use a star chief aerodynamicist ;)

No the article says that he was when he moved to McLaren.

[Hyatt]

Originally posted by peroa
I remember that a driver from Finnland wanted to sue them and they apologized to him in the next issue for writing bullshit.

I don`t think that qualifies as professional journalism.

Wasnt that 'Auto Bild'?

[f1rules]

well they are still listed on mclarens own homepage, on the other side their page says that a guy called Tim Goss is the leading Engineer on the mp4-21 project which is quite surprising to me, this could indicate that some of the big guys is on their way out,

[quasi C]

If, IF, Tombazis left that would be a huge, huge blow to McLaren.

Autosprint some time ago (about 3 weeks) stated that Ferrari were going to try and get Tombazis back - whether this proves true or not who knows. At the moment it should be still treated as rumour.

[xype]

Originally posted by peroa
I remember that a driver from Finnland wanted to sue them and they apologized to him in the next issue for writing bullshit. I don`t think that qualifies as professional journalism.

Hyatt is right, you are confusing Auto Bild with Auto, Motor & Sport.

[RedIsTheColour]

If he goes back to the reds, the conspiracy theory threads here will be ballistic!

[Ghostrider]

auto motor & sport is one of the best sources for F1 is my experience. They are usually very accurate, objective and have no bias in their F1 reporting. Very refreshing to read their articles about F1.

[bern@rd]

If they really left Mclaren would be in shambles.
Newey was perhaps starting to be excess baggage at mclaren but they cant cope with that many people leaving and especially Tombazis. Mclaren would have the same fate as ferrari this season.
I just really really hope this isn't true.
And that one year gardening leave would most likely be for contractual reasons? A pretty young guy at the peak of his career, just starting to emerge at the very top doesn't just want to have a year of vacation.

[Wouter]

If true, it would be a disaster. McLaren would lose most of the people responsible for the MP4/20. Combined with the loss of the one-tyre rule and the V8, both which seem to hit on strong points of the MP4/20, this could mean McLaren falling down the ranks quickly. And loosing Raikkonen as well, no doubt.

[zac510]

You're all wishing for the same death of McLaren that you've been wishing on Williams for the past 12 months.

[alexcason]

So...Bira et al, is there any news on this that you've heard or is this a rumor exclusive to that site?

[rfus]

This is really bad for mac if true. Hopefully they can still get a good 2006 out of the work these 3 have done on the 21. I'm hoping this is false but it sounds as if AMUS is a reliable source

[MrSlow]

Everyone can be replaced, even Tambazis. But I agree it is worrying.
Can't help wondering though - who would want to hire these guys for big money, doing important things and learning team secrets, when they know that they take off as soon as someone gives them a better offer?

[SchuOz]

After the loss of Adrian Newey to the Red Bull racing outfit, it seems as if McLaren are about to face further setbacks with reports indicating that former Ferrari man Nicolas Tombazis, the man touted to replace Newey at the Woking based squad, has also left the team for greener pastures.

Auto Motor and Sport claims that the Greek Vehicle Project Director has already quit the team, however there is no indication as to the reasons behind the move. This means that if the speculation proves to be correct, Neil Oatley, currently the executive director of engineering, becomes the hot favourite for Newey’s job with chief designer Mike Coughlan also a possibility.

One has to wonder what is happening at McLaren and how things will develop next year, especially as the report indicates that another two high ranking members, one in the aero department Peter Prodromou and one in the electronics division, Paddy Lowe, are also looking at jumping ship.

[ssilviu]

i wonder.....why no man left the champion team?

[MrSlow]

Originally posted by ssilviu
i wonder.....why no man left the champion team?

Flavio. He makes them ALL happy. Ron simply does not have It.

[IMHO]

I thought Paragon was supposed to be such a wonderful experience as a workplace, award-winning and all that... (just pick one)

[peroa]

Now that is interesting, administrative role, hmm.

Movement at McLaren



McLaren's Vehicle Project Director Nick Tombazis is reported to have left the team after only 18 months. Tombazis joined McLaren from Ferrari in April 2004 to work on car design but McLaren already head chief designer Mike Coughlan in place in addition to executive engineering director Neil Oatley. Soon after his arrival, the technical team was reshuffled with Paddy Lowe being put in charge of vehicle design, aerodynamics, simulation and race engineering, while Tombazis found himself in more of an administrative role. Given the speed with which he has departed it seems likely that the decision was mutual agreement as McLaren tends to fight hard when it wnats to keep an engineer. The departure and that of Adrian Newey will have no immediate effect on the team as the MP4-21 is finished and now going into production. Success in Formula 1 has a downside as it results in other teams trying to hire your designers and at the moment there are several teams offering big salaries to get new people. We hear that Renault and BAR have both lost staff in recent days to Red Bull Racing.

source: grandprix.com

[vsubravet]

While it is too premature to talk about the future fortunes of McLaren, in the short-term i.e, 2006 the departure of NT would not be that devestating. However the updates will be the stumbling block for Mclaren - they wouldn't be able to cope up with the developments of the other front runners. All this after their car won the 'award' recently for being the best; and over on top of that McLaren had posted a profit!!! But in the long term, IMO, McLaren could suffer seriously with the loss of AN and NT in short succcession. And this could possibly trigger KR to leave too. Could it be that NT is going to Ferrari and KR follows him there? Just the opposite of DC going to Reb Bull and enticing AN to go there??

Vijay

[peroa]

All this in a way makes sense.

Ron said this summer in an interview that if someone wants to leave the team then the best thing to do is that he does.

Of course everybody meant that he referred to KR, but I think he just might have meant some other people.

[WACKO]

Originally posted by peroa
Now that is interesting, administrative role, hmm.

Maybe they intended a big role for him, but the structure didn't allow him. Anyway, right now the easy conclusion is they attracted him just to destabilize Ferrari, which has definitely been at least one of the main motivations for hiring him. I'm curious where he will go to. I think Maranello wasn't so bad after all ;)

[vsubravet]

The departure of NT raises certain interesting questions. If he was more in the admin. role, then who was in charge of the design of MP4-20? And why did McLaren allow both NT and AN leave without a fight? Do they have someone with whom they are comfortable for future design aspects of their future cars? Or has the on-going McLaren role in the GPMA resulted in serious internal strife in the team? Lots of questions. I do hope RD is upto this latest developments.
Vijay

[peroa]

Still no reports on other pages, except that they are referring to the AM&S article from yesterday.

[peroa]

The first reaction from McLaren.

Since this morning there were news around that the Greek born McLaren Vehicle Project Director, Nicholas Tombazis, has left the team. "Following Adrian's departure inevitably there is a lot of speculation", told a McLaren spokesperson to gp2005.com . "We will not be replacing Adrian and our technical organisation will continue to operate within the current structure. Nicholas remains working on aerodynamics within McLaren", was the official position of the team.

source: gp2005.com


Interesting, since only AM&S published this so called news and no other big site did it.
Looks like somebody wants to make some turbulences from outside and disturbe them.

Strange, strange.

[ivanalesi]

I doubt that Ron will allow so many key ppl leave, it will crash the team, Ron has the money and resources to make them stay.

[armonico]

Originally posted by IMHO
I thought Paragon was supposed to be such a wonderful experience as a workplace, award-winning and all that... (just pick one)

Did you see the Sterling Awards this year?

Parangon is a completely souless place to work, to be honest. The great views to the lake are only for the displayed cars while workers are confined in boring grey open plan offices with white light. No colour, no fun and no post-its on your computer, just an immaculate clean working space. Even BMW factory, built in concrete, has more soul that that boring ultra-clean Paragon center.

Rumour has it that engineers must clean any oil spills or whatever dirt fall on the floor before continuing to do thier work.

I'm not surprise some key workers are trying to leave or has left.

[SpamJet]

Tombazis on gardening leave again? Hasn't he been on gardening leave or military service for most of the last 5 years?

If his input to the MP20 is only administrative then who had the biggest aerodynamic input? Newey? They couldnt both have been administrators. Difficult to tell how bad this is for McLaren.

[Enkei]

According to the grapevine, McLaren denies Tombazis is on the way out.

[Just]

Originally posted by Calorus
Maybe that should be "To finish first, first you have to start" - Ron

I always thought Ron was misquoted, and that he actually said: "To finish first, first you have to be Finnish".

[Platipus]

uhmm, Ron isn't a liked guy, money and greatness don't go without efforts!


i Play renault for 2006!

[Scudetto]

Originally posted by Enkei
According to the grapevine, McLaren denies Tombazis is on the way out.

Actually, what it says is, "Nicholas remains working on aerodynamics within McLaren." Read that another way, and it says, "Nicholas remains working on aerodynamics within McLaren for now."

If McLaren was denying that Tombazis was leaving, why not flatly state that "Contrary to rumors, Nicholas is staying with McLaren until (insert term of NT's contract here.)" So, sure, Tombazis is working at Mclaren today, but what about tomorrow? Next week? Next month?

The McLaren press release is, per usual, vague and ambiguous. Normally, the key is not reading what the press releases says, but what it fails to say.


(Nick.....come home to Maranello!!)

[Lazarus II]

Originally posted by Scudetto


Actually, what it says is, "Nicholas remains working on aerodynamics within McLaren." Read that another way, and it says, "Nicholas remains working on aerodynamics within McLaren for now."

If McLaren was denying that Tombazis was leaving, why not flatly state that "Contrary to rumors, Nicholas is staying with McLaren until (insert term of NT's contract here.)" So, sure, Tombazis is working at Mclaren today, but what about tomorrow? Next week? Next month?

The McLaren press release is, per usual, vague and ambiguous. Normally, the key is not reading what the press releases says, but what it fails to say.


(Nick.....come home to Maranello!!)

So we can do that with all the press releases or just McLarens?
If so, then Micheal Schumacher is coming back early because he has lost his will and racecraft and wants to see whether he'll continue racing or retire early. If you read between the lines........way between.

[Ricardo F1]

Sounded pretty catagorical to me. Adding for now completely changes the meaning of the sentence and there was absolutely nothing to infer that. Now, that doesn't mean it's not true, but then they sky is blue . . . for now.

[Scudetto]

Originally posted by Lazarus II

So we can do that with all the press releases or just McLarens?

Easy, killer. I made similar observations about the Schmacher/Ferrari release made when speculation was rife that Kimi and Michael would be swapping in 2007. Like now, those releases were full of nicy-nice talk about Michael "intends" and "great relationships," and similar blah blah blah that all fell far short of sternly deying the underlying premise of the rumor.


The point is that here, as there, if McLaren were to put paid to any talk of Tombazis' departure, there are far, far more unequivocal ways of saying so than "remains working."