24 replies to this topic

[Russell_Sheldon]

Can someone please help with details about the Chaparral 2F’s licence plate?

I’d like to know which licence plate was used at which races and what colour it was; sometimes it was black with white numbers, sometimes white with black numbers.


Daytona 24-Hours, 4th-5th February 1967: Hill / Spence DNF
Chassis 2F001, Race Number 15, no plate?

Sebring 12-Hours, 1st April 1967: Hill / Spence DNF
Chassis 2F001, Race Number 6, no plate?

Monza 1,000 Kms, 25th April 1967: Hill / Spence DNF
Chassis 2F002, Race Number 1, Licence Plate Number?

Spa 1,000 Kms, 30th April 1967: Hill / Spence DNF
Chassis 2F001, Race Number 1, Licence Plate Number CYK 52 (black plate, white letters?)

Targa Florio, 14th May 1967: Hill / Sharp DNF
Chassis 2F001, Race Number 222, Licence Plate Number ?

ADAC 1,000 Kms, Nurburgring, 28th May 1967: Hill / Spence DNF
Chassis 2F002, Race Number 4, Licence Plate Number ?

Le Mans 24-Hours, 10th-11th June 1967: Hill / Spence DNF
Chassis 2F001, Race Number 7, Licence Plate Number CZV 659 (white plate, black letters)

Le Mans 24-Hours, 10th-11th June 1967: Johnson / Jennings DNF
Chassis 2F002, Race Number 8, Licence Plate Number CVJ 156 (white plate, black letters)

BOAC 500, Brands Hatch, 30th July 1967: 1st
Chassis 2F001, Race Number 1, Licence Plate Number CVJ 156 (white plate, black letters)


Any help is much appreciated.

Kind regards,

Russell

[2F-001]

Hello Russell -
I'm sure I have pictures from both cars at most (if not all) their races, somewhere.
I am away from all my books and files at the mo' - but if nobody else pitches in in the meantime I'll check for them later in the week.

[Jeremy Jackson]

Russell,

A small correction:

On the the Le Mans no 8 & BOAC cars, the plate no. was CYJ 156, not CVJ.

This was also the number carried on the Targa Florio car.

The Nürburgring car carried no. CZV 659.


Jeremy

[David Lawson]

Russell

According to a photograph on page 147 in the Friedman Chaparral book the Spa car had the white plate/black lettering CYJ 156.

David

[2F-001]

Purely off the top of my head -- I can recall seeing a white-on-black plate on the restored 2F-002, but not on 001.

One other small point: the drivers at Sebring are generally understood to have been Jim Hall and Mike Spence, rather than Phil Hill.

[2F-001]

As 'sad' as it may seem, I have found a couple of Chaparral pics in the back of my diary:
the restored 2F appeared at Goodwood FoS (the first time around) with a white-on-black plate, but the number was CYK-52.
I don't think it ever raced with that, but will double check all that when home.

(It may be safe to assume that the Plate numbers for the cars at LeMans should be the other way around. Having said that, I have seen a couple of published accounts that claim Hill and Spence actually raced 2F-002 there, but I've had no reason to think they were right - most other sources say 001, as you have.)

[Macca]

Monza 100k, 1967 - pic Franco Lini:



Paul M

[RS2000]

BOAC 500 67. Sorry for poor quality (I was young: that's my excuse and I'm sticking to it). Indicates the variation in cars entered at least.

[doc knutsen]

Before the US Presidential elections in 1964, one of the Chaparrals raced with the licence plate reading Auh2o 64.....Barry Goldwater was that year's candidate for the Republicans.

[Russell_Sheldon]

Very many thanks for all the prompt replies. It appears that 2F001 was CYJ 156 and 2F002 had licence plate CZV 659, both white plates with black numbers, throughout the 1967 European season. Licence plate CYK-52, white on black, was used on the restored 2F.

I was a bit thrown when researching this by an error on page 124 of Richard Falconer and Doug Nye's otherwise excellent book "Chaparral - Complete History of Jim Hall's Chaparral Race Cars 1961-1970" which incorrectly states:-

"Chaparral's two cars at Le Mans were chassis 001 driven by Jennings/Johnson (number 8) and 002 by Hill/Spence (number 7)"

Hill/Spence of course drove 2F001 (number 7) and Jennings/Johnson drove 2F002 (number 8).

Thanks again,

Russell

[2F-001]

Hmm -- I hadn't realised that the Falconer/Nye book said that about the Le Mans cars (that's in the text, rather than the tables, is it?). The similar references I mentioned did not include that one; one of those was a review of Chaparral's season by DSJ which contradicted itself on the matter - at the time I first read it I wondered if it was implying that Hill/Spence had run 002 in practice and then switched, but that some crucial passage had been lost in editing.

[Henk Vasmel]

It seems to be time for a little advertisement for my website. Two of the question marks of your original post could have been answered by a quick look at my website www.vasmel.com . There are also two entries for 2D's. Thanks for your info anyway, it will help to add some more info to my database.

Regards,

Henk Vasmel

[karlcars]

Since we're advertising, I have to mention my book about the Chaparrals in the Ludvigsen Library Series published by Iconografix. It has to be of help on this topic -- I hope!

[WDH74]

I've always found it interesting that the Chaparrals were registered in Texas, with current plates. Not that they were registered in Texas (being Jim Hall's home state and Chaparral's HQ), but the fact that they were registered at all! I know that the Cobra Daytonas were registered (with California "MFR" manufacturer plates in the now valued yellow on black pattern), and that the earliest Cunninghams wore Florida tags (I think). But those were cars you could conceivably drive on the street. A Chaparral seems a little out of the ordinary! Plus, I didn't know that cars in that class were still required to be registered.

I wonder if Jim Hall had to bring the cars down to the DMV?

-William

(Slight sidetrack- I see pictures of old Ferraris with what look like registration numbers painted on them. Are they reg. numbers?)

[Macca]

Ferrari sports and even single-seat cars (and Maseratis too) often had a stencil somewhere near the back saying 'PROVA MO ' and a number - that was a local 'trade plate' which allowed them to be driven on the road, generally to the Modena Aero-Autodrome for testing.


Paul M

[P4Replica]

Originally posted by WDH74
(Slight sidetrack- I see pictures of old Ferraris with what look like registration numbers painted on them. Are they reg. numbers?)

Originally posted by Macca
Ferrari sports and even single-seat cars (and Maseratis too) often had a stencil somewhere near the back saying 'PROVA MO ' and a number - that was a local 'trade plate' which allowed them to be driven on the road, generally to the Modena Aero-Autodrome for testing.

Continuing this slight side-track / hijacking of the thread (Sorry, Russell !!).
Can anybody (Macca?) please help with this enquiry on one of the Chaparral 2F's main rivals in '67 - The Ferrari 330P4 ?

I'm trying to find out which particular 'PROVA MO-XX' plate was stencilled on the back of the 2nd placed (race #4) P4 driven by Parkes / Scarfiotti at the Monza 1000K's in 1967 (chassis #0858).
It wasn't PROVA MO-53, because that was used on the #3 car (#0856). Ferrari seem to have swapped these sprayed-on trade plates around between cars before almost every race in '67 ! I'm guessing that it could be MO-36 or MO-159, but I don't have a clear close-up photo of the rear of the #4 car.
(Photo below of the #3 car copyright Giacomo Cevenini.)
Thanks.

[Dennis Hockenbury]

License plates in each U.S. state were issued annually with the colors reversed from year to year to let the police know that you had paid the necessary fees. The plates were produced by the state prison system. Thus the 1967 plates as shown on the Chaparrel photo were black on white with 1966 and 1968 plates being white on black.

License plates, at least in Texas, are currently issued for period of five or six years with an adhesive sticker that mounts on the windshield.

[WDH74]

Originally posted by Dennis Hockenbury
License plates in each U.S. state were issued annually with the colors reversed from year to year to let the police know that you had paid the necessary fees. The plates were produced by the state prison system. Thus the 1967 plates as shown on the Chaparrel photo were black on white with 1966 and 1968 plates being white on black.

License plates, at least in Texas, are currently issued for period of five or six years with an adhesive sticker that mounts on the windshield.

I knew about the different colors (a neighbor of mine has a huge collection of Illinois plates because he used to keep his). I do know that here in IL the plates aren't automatically replaced every five years (I ran the same tags on two different cars for almost ten), but they did "upgrade" the design a couple of years ago so everyone had to get new plates. In any event you have to get stickers every year when you renew your registration.

But, why were the Chaparrals even registered in the first place? Was road registration a requirement, or was the Chaparral team driving the cars on the street (presumably to get to a test track, like the Ferraris mentioned earlier)?

-William

(funny, I'm involved in a long discussion about license plates at another forum!!!)

[Dennis Hockenbury]

William, we have to obtain a windshield sticker each year in Texas as well.

As the Chaparral test track, Rattlesnake Raceway was adjacent to their shop in Midland, I can't imagine why they would need plates to travel to and from the locations.

I do not know if the rules at Le Mans and other races required road registration.

[WINO]

The claim that U.S. license plates have to be reissued every year in different colors to accommodate the police is plain silly. It would indicate a system so bureaucratic that it would be unworkable. Plates remain unchanged until a car is sold, unless the state decides on a statewide change in design. Many states offer a choice of plates at a slightly higher licensing fee, and these remain unchanged as well. It is the annual sticker that changes color each year and to the best of my knowledge, in every state of the Union the sticker goes on the plate, not the windshield. It is the emission sticker that goes on the windshield.


WINO

[Dennis Hockenbury]

Sorry to burst your bubble WINO, but annually issued plates was the norm in the US until well into the 1970's in most U.S. states. Yes, you kept the same plate number but each year you physically bolted a new set of plates on your car.

The plate number remained the same for the car until sold, at which time the new owner was obliged to obtain a new plate with different numbers. Many folks kept each years plates and hung them on their garage wall.

A very different system than the British model where the plate (or registration) number remains the same for the life of the car.

Today, there are various options for the metal license plates. One can obtain "vanity" plates that has a owner defined plate number such as "Ferrari 1". Another option is to choose among different designs, such as the logo of a university, or state flower.

The basic option is a standard plate with a number selected by the Texas Department of Transportation at random. This plate is issued for a duration of between 5 and 7 years and is fixed at the front and rear of the automobile. The plate number is changed upon issuance of each new set for the same car.

In addition we have two windshield stickers, one for the registration of the car which is tied to the plate number, and the inspection sticker which is for the annual inspection and emissions testing. Both are obtained annually.

I was just issued the second set of plates for my car which are a different plate number than the first.

I am not defending the efficiency of the old system, as I have no idea how this method evolved. It is however, how it was for many, many years in most U.S. states.

[WINO]

Well, definitely not in California, where it was recognized early on what a total waste of material this would be. Small metal plates, indicating the year, had to be attached to the permanent license plates in the early fifties. From then on stickers were used. The black/yellow plates were changed in 1970, but it was part of a statewide conversion. Perhaps things were different in Texas in those days, in an effort to keep the prison population busy. But what an utter waste! Wasn't there the alternative of the chain gang?


WINO

[WINO]

And, by the way, according to my wife [who has been around], a system not used in New York State when she started driving in the early sixties.

But since this thread focuses on the mid-sixties Midland-registered Chaparrals, and if the custom of wasting taxpayers money was the norm at the Texas DMV in those days, I agree that your explanation may be feasible.


WINO

[Dennis Hockenbury]

I did not move to Texas until 1980, and the system was the same in Virginia, and in most other states.

I would recommend a look at this site which provides a good overview of the system used in each state through the years.

Again, I am not defending the methodlogy used by any state in how they arrived at their system. According to your perspective, the practice of wasted money was the norm in most states in taking a look at the annual plate changes in the various states. Not my area of interest and to be frank, I really don't care.

And I will refrain from any California jokes either.

[Frank S]

I'd like to suggest the rarest plates of all as a collector's goal: during WWII one enterprising agricultural state, in furtherance of conservation of war-effort-critical resources, substituted (wait for it... ) a soya-based material for metal. It worked pretty well for a while, until the dogs took a liking to it. "My dog ate my license plate, Officer."

That rear view of the Chapparal in pit lane reminds me that on at least one occasion Mr Hall displayed the motto "A M F" on the rear of his cars. Event chairman (and Cobra driver) for an SCCA slalom used it as a template for the dash plaque graphic. Took a little explaining for those who noticed.