81 replies to this topic

[optics]

Did anyone else here in Australia catch any of the Late Night Legends series on motorsports shown in early January on ABC2 Digital? It is a great pity there is so little promotion on what is showing on ABC2, as this was a great series from what I have seen. Details are contained in this link:

http://www.abc.net.a...gends/week7.htm

I caught the first show on the Tasman Series by accident, missed the second show on Touring Cars and recorded the last two on F5000 races. The racing coverage is excellent.

In the 1968 Tasman Series race at Warwick Farm Jim Clark shows his brilliance disappearing into the distance and leaving Graham Hill, Jack Brabham, Chris Amon, Denny Hulme, Pedro Rodriguez and Piers Courage to battle out the minor placings.

One thing starkly evident is the very lax safety setup in this era of racing. No curbs, sandtraps or run-off areas and very limited spectator separation from the racing. In the 1978 F5000 race at Oran Park you see a concrete wall right on the trackside of a long right hander, and during the race there ends up 4 or 5 cars parked against the wall and the race continues without even yellow flags in evidence! And you see the mechanics in the pits working on the cars during the race wearing only t-shirts, shorts and thongs!

But the atmosphere and personality of the racing is so very different to today. It really is fantastic to watch.

[David Shaw]

Quite a few caught up with it.
http://forums.autosp...y=&pagenumber=1

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by optics
.....One thing starkly evident is the very lax safety setup in this era of racing. No curbs, sandtraps or run-off areas and very limited spectator separation from the racing. In the 1978 F5000 race at Oran Park you see a concrete wall right on the trackside of a long right hander, and during the race there ends up 4 or 5 cars parked against the wall and the race continues without even yellow flags in evidence! And you see the mechanics in the pits working on the cars during the race wearing only t-shirts, shorts and thongs!

The '79 Oran Park race... the cars against the wall, just as you see them parked in different spots in the '78 Sandown race... and no yellow flags?

How can you be sure there were no yellow flags, for a start? Did the sweep of the camera take in the flag position that covered that part of the circuit? Did the camera take in the flag point at a time when the cars coming by would require a flag to be shown?

More than that... at that time, yellow flags were only displayed for two laps for a car stuck off the edge of the circuit like that. Perhaps this is still the way it's done.

Thongs, by the way, would have never seemed right to me. But I fail to see why shorts would surprise anyone. In races such as this, where no refuelling and very little work on cars would be envisaged, I don't think casual clothing such as this would be out of character at all.

[optics]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


The '79 Oran Park race... the cars against the wall, just as you see them parked in different spots in the '78 Sandown race... and no yellow flags?

How can you be sure there were no yellow flags, for a start? Did the sweep of the camera take in the flag position that covered that part of the circuit? Did the camera take in the flag point at a time when the cars coming by would require a flag to be shown?

More than that... at that time, yellow flags were only displayed for two laps for a car stuck off the edge of the circuit like that. Perhaps this is still the way it's done.

Thongs, by the way, would have never seemed right to me. But I fail to see why shorts would surprise anyone. In races such as this, where no refuelling and very little work on cars would be envisaged, I don't think casual clothing such as this would be out of character at all.

Firstly I apologise for starting a new thread when there was already one running. Then I must clarify I was not trying to detract from the way things were run then, just to emphasise the very different culture then as to now.

I was not saying there were no yellows, just that none were in evidence (probably due to the camera coverage). However, what surprised me was they continued to race through the section where the parked cars were.

About the thongs, I was just trying to highlight how different it was to the full protective suit setup used in the pits today. And even if limited work only was done, I stil imagine it would be painful if your foot was run over when protected only by thongs!

[Magee]

Thongs to us in North America means that thin cord-like wrap used instead of a binini bottom on women. At first, I couldn't believe that thongs would be allowed in the pits until the comment about running over a foot clued me in. The laugh is on me.

[Ray Bell]

Well, we're not going to sink to calling them 'flip flops' like Kiwis do!

[GreenMachine]

I'll settle for US-style thongs in the pits any day - as long as they are worn by the female of the species

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Well, we're not going to sink to calling them 'flip flops' like Kiwis do!

Never heard that term in 40 years in New Zealand
England, yes, but to NZers, they're jandals

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by David McKinney
Never heard that term in 40 years in New Zealand
England, yes, but to NZers, they're jandals

My apologies, David and your fellow Kiwis...

That's right, 'jandals'... what a word! There must have been a brand by that name, so it was something like the pommie use of the word 'hoover' for anything remotely like a vacuum cleaner.

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by David McKinney

Never heard that term in 40 years in New Zealand
England, yes, but to NZers, they're jandals

or Kiwi Safety Boots.....lets not forget that when they were introduced from SE Asia they were known as "Getters"

[Martin Roessler]

Hi there,
for all the australian members...there will be more late night legends on abc2 in february and march.
unfortunately i could not record todays broadcast of the 1980 swann motorcycle race,sandown...they were also showing the f2 and the super sedans(?)

ok..here are the next broadcasts:

27.02.06 and 03.03.06 at 10:45
--1959/1960 bathurst

28.02.06 at 10:45 and 04.03.06 at 11:00
--1970 touring cars

01.03.06 at 10:45
--1973 touring cars

02.03.06 at10:45
--1988 sandown 500

all i can say is write them a mail telling them how much you enjoy the old motorsport broadcasts so they know there is an interest.
i will ask them if they show the 1980 swann event again....i have the feeling that they actually listen to their viewers...
enjoy the races....cheers marty

ps: i will record the following broadcasts on dvd....

[Ray Bell]

The '59 and '60 Bathursts sound good...

I wonder if they found their '58 AGP Bathurst stuff?

[racer69]

Looking forward to this stuff next week.

I sent an email to the ABC about the 1980 Swann Series/Sports Sedans/F2 races not being advertised on the 'Late Night Legends' website, only being hidden on the online TV guide, in the middle of a week full of AFL.

They sent me back a personal reply and included a more detailed guide with what is on next week;


27/02 (repeated 03/03):
- 1959/60 Bathurst
- 1971 Australian Grand Prix

28/02 (repeated 04/03)
- 1970 Touring Cars at Warwick Farm
- 1976 2 + 4 meeting from Sandown

01/03 (only)
- 1973 Warwick Farm meeting, Chesterfield 100 (Sports Sedans maybe??) and South Pacific Touring Car round

02/03 (repeated 05/03)
- 1988 Sandown 500

20/03 - 1984 Swann Series races
21/03 - 1986 Swann Series races


It also mentioned that the whole 'Late Night Legends' series will be repeated later this year, enabling us to catch the 1980 2+4 meeting from the other week.

[Ray Bell]

The Chesterfield 100 was probably the International event... the Tasman Cup race in the soaking rain that Steve Thompson won. The South Pacific race was on the same day.

I have, however, checked all the AARC's ads in RCN for their upcoming meetings of that year and Chesterfield isn't mentioned. Anyone got programmes?

They had a 1970 Warwick Farm Touring Car race on last time, I hope it's another day... it probably is, likely the ATCC race.

The '71 AGP was, of course, the walkover by Matich. I just wonder which Bathurst meetings they are... no doubt the time Jack was here is one of them...

[Dale Harvey]

Yes I have a programme and the Chesterfield 100 was round 6 of the Tasman Championship.
Dale Harvey

[Ray Bell]

Thanks Dale...

Let's just hope the cameras were on Matich going round the outside of McRae into Paddock Bend! That was probably the highlight of that race...

[Ray Bell]

Can't believe it...

Got a bit of an early night, one might say, last night... was going to go out and set the DVD recording. Wife woke me about 11:30... missed the Bathurst stuff!

Well, I might still be here Friday.

[Ray Bell]

Graham Howard got a bit familiar there, didn't he?

Never heard flag marshals mentioned by name before...

[emjaya]

"cough paid advertisment cough"

[Ray Bell]

I guess he thought he'd get away with it seeing as he knew I was there...

[Martin Roessler]

hi there,
did anybody record the 1980 swann races? it was broadcasted on February 08...it's the only one i missed
i think late night legends ends soon...what a pity...
cheers marty

[Ray Bell]

Not me... not likely... I even stopped the recorder for the '2' part of the Sandown 2+4...

On the other hand, tonight's wet 'Farm saw the pass Matich pulled on the outside of McRae beautifully captured. This is just great stuff!

[racer69]

Originally posted by Martin Roessler
hi there,
did anybody record the 1980 swann races? it was broadcasted on February 08...it's the only one i missed
i think late night legends ends soon...what a pity...
cheers marty

According to an email i received from the ABC, they plan to repeat the whole lot again later this year.

After that they will probably run a new series with more old stuff.

They also plan to release it all on DVDs for sale.

[Ray Bell]

Chevron Publishing is to market the stuff in its entirety...

[nick stone]

I may be the only one marching in step, but I reckon the races they've shown so far have been, if I can put it delicately..... boring. OK, this moment or that moment but basically several hours of tedium. Perhaps you had to be there.

Nick (in hiding)

[Martin Roessler]

I may be the only one marching in step, but I reckon the races they've shown so far have been, if I can put it delicately..... boring. OK, this moment or that moment but basically several hours of tedium. Perhaps you had to be there.

i was actually thinking that yesterday....i think it has a lot to do with the fact that they obviously didn't have a good plan or some sort of "roadmap" for the cameras...most of the time the camera stays with the leader whilst there are great fights for positions behind ...i think we are a bit spoilt
with todays racing broadcasts...but still...great to hear and see all the cars and the slides etc.....i still love watching it...
cheers marty

[Ray Bell]

I hardly agree... with the 1968 Warwick Farm Tasman event as the leading and first example...

That was a tremendous race, and the coverage was admittedly poor. But you really did have a lot going on the whole time, certainly more than you see in virtually any race today.

The dice for second place behind Matich in the 1970 AGP was totally active, with Allan Hamilton's slides in Leger Corner, for instance, being obvious and demonstrative of the type of action we saw in that era. And you can't possibly say that Pete Geoghegan's thrashing of that Phase 2 HO in the following tintop race was unspectacular.

There's no doubt that some of the races have been less interesting. The '79 Oran Park, the '78 AGP, with all their dropouts. But I have to say they were good to watch all the same.

The least interesting one so far, I feel, was the one which did the very thing of which Martin speaks... the 3-litre race at Sandown where they flitted from the leaders to the class battle without notice and chopped large sections of the race out.

[275 GTB-4]

I currently have square eyes from catching up .....cannot believe I watched action at Bathurst from 59/60......impressive stuff....thank goodness someone had the sense to look after it all this time and hide it from the bean counters

The action might not be thrill a minute for those with a short span of attention, but there has been some outstanding footage....Mildren through the cutting was great to watch, Matich, Bond, Moffatt, Geoghegan, Bond (outstanding drives - no further comment required).....who the hell is Steve Thompson - the Great Train Robbers wheelman ...

All great stuff....I feel priveleged to have watched it (sometimes for the second time, but with a big gap )

Anyone know what happened to the full bodied car driven by Clive??? at Bathurst 59(??)....came out to grid up but not seen again....what was the car??

and how about Frank Gardner as a commentator....put the other lot to shame

[Ray Bell]

Easter 1960... Clive Adams DNS in the Prad Holden...

This is the car five or six years later leading Frank Walters at Catalina Park:

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
[B]Easter 1960... Clive Adams DNS in the Prad Holden...

Damn....I knew it was familiar for some reason ......thanks Ray

[racer69]

I can't say i've found any of it boring so to speak, what i do have an issue with is why they chopped up alot of the races. For instance the Sandown 2+4 meeting, four races boxed in to 30 minutes. That U3l Touring Car race looked like a cracker (particularly to 3-way dice between the Mini, Escort and Honda Civic), but anyway, it's great that the stuff has been shown, and i applaud to ABC for doing so.

This week finished with an hours highlights of the 1988 Sandown 500. Felt weird watching something comparitively recent (thought still 18 years old!) compared to the other stuff we've seen. This race was Moffat's last stand really in Australian motorsport, and his last victory on Australian soil. He of course had Bathurst in the bag a few weeks later, until a late retirement.


There is more motorsport coming up on Late Night Legends;

- 20/3/06 -> 1984 Swann Series races
- 21/3/06 -> 1986 Swann Series races

[Ray Bell]

I think you'll find those were the highlights that went to air at the time...

Some savage editing work all right! And I'm certainly looking forward to seeing the Bathurst stuff tonight...

Will they ever show the 1979 AGP?

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
And I'm certainly looking forward to seeing the Bathurst stuff tonight...

With good reason too!

What a great coverage, given that each meeting only got 15 or 16 minutes... fabulous stuff. Prerecorded and edited later, obviously, and with just three or four cameras for that huge track, it clearly could have been better.

But we saw so many of the cars that competed in each of those Bathurst 100s... Bill Cooke's Peugeot Special included. MGs, the HWM Jag and the McClelland Mac Vincent, there was bucketloads of cars out there on the circuit being named by the commentator and being seen in action.

So atmospheric, especially the 1960 version, with that high-mounted camera halfway down Con-rod Straight. It was narrow and bumpy and went up and down the hills and they scorched right on down there as if it was a freeway. The camera on the inside of the circuit between the Dipper and Forrest Elbow had great shots, but while we saw McPhillamy in the '59 stuff, and scenes from the Shell Tower, not in the 1960 footage.

Mildren was certainly hot to trot in both races, but it was in the '60 race that he showed his determination. Those scenes where he repeatedly raised the dust out of the Cutting demonstrated he was right into it, even when Stillwell was gone.

Yes, only a few more cameras could have made it better. I don't even think colour would have made a difference.

All the same, it really made me understand a little better what I've read about for years. I was at Bathurst in '63, so I remember that the circuit was more or less like what was filmed, but now I've seen those cars on it and it's so much easier to grasp the whole scene that I was denied in real life.

By the way, what was that with Mildren's car up Mountain Straight on the second lap in '59? The thing was pretty much out of shape... if you didn't see it, run your tape or DVD again and watch... I'll bet old Alec's heart skipped a beat over that one!

[Leo D]

I see that the ABC (Down Under ) are running this (Late Night Legends) again starting October 15.

http://www.abc.net.au/sport/legends/ for the details.....

[Ray Bell]

All repeats of what they showed earlier in the year...

Waste of time. Considering the vast amount of stuff they have in their library.

[William Dale Jr]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
All repeats of what they showed earlier in the year...

Waste of time. Considering the vast amount of stuff they have in their library.

Don't worry, according to this:

Late Night Legends will return to ABC 2 on November 6. Lex Marinos will once again don his miner's hat to go digging in the ABC's basement where the sporting archives live. In the meantime, you can enjoy the Best of Series One on ABC 2. So if you missed it the first time around, this is your chance to relive some of the great sporting moments of years gone by.

It looks like the new series will start on November 6. Can't wait to see what they dig up this time around.

[275 GTB-4]

Yep, Late Night Legends is returning to ABC2.

See the web site for what's on when.

http://abc.net.au/sport/legends/

Episode 15 - Sunday 15th October 2006 11.25pm
1970 Terrific Touring Cars - Warwick Farm '70 & Sydney '71

Episode 16 - Monday 16th October 2006 11.00pm
1968 Tasman Cup Legends - Warwick Farm '68 & Adelaide '72

Episode 17 - Tuesday 17th October 2006 11.00pm
1978 Classic Single Seaters - Adelaide '78 & Sydney '79

Episode 25 - Wednesday 25th October 2006 11.00pm
1959 Bathurst 1959, 1960, 1971 Australian Grand Prix Program A

Episode 27 - Wednesday 27th October 2006 11.00pm
1970 Warwick Farm Touring Cars - 1976 2 & 4 Sandown Program B,

Episode 28 - Tuesday 28th October 2006 11.30pm
1980 Swann Motor Cycle - Formula 2 & Sedan Races

Episode 29 - Sunday 29th October 2006 11.25pm
1978 Australian Grand Prix - Sandown Park Melbourne,

Episode 30 - Monday 30th October 2006 11.00pm
1973 Chesterfield 100 & South Pacific Touring Cars and Sports Sedans - Program C

Episode 31 - Tuesday 31st October 2006 11.00pm
1984 Swann Motor Cycle Races

Episode 32 - Wednesday 1st November 2006 11.00pm
1986 Swann Motor Cycle Races

Episode 35 - Saturday 4th November 2006 11.30pm
1988 Enzed Sandown 500 - Touring Car Endurance Race - Program D

[/B] [Note: fabulous BMW M3 in-car footage of Brock][B]

[GreenMachine]

275, what is the 'program A, B, C'?

Is anyone taping (burn DVD) these - purely for timeshift purposes of course ?

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by GreenMachine
275, what is the 'program A, B, C'?

Is anyone taping (burn DVD) these - purely for timeshift purposes of course ?

I'm guesssing.....A=First race film shown, B=Second race film shown, C=Turd race film shown

These are repeats....new series starts in November.

[Leo D]

I think they're only repeats if you've already seen them...

[GreenMachine]

C=Turd race film shown

Do I really want to watch this Then again, as long as they are motorised, ....

I bet BDG will only watch if they run without a roof

[Murray Lord]

Looks like the next instalment is coming our way very soon:

Week 2, November 13: Motor Mania
05. Tasman International 100 Warwick Farm 1968
06. Australian Grand Prix Lakeside (QLD) 1969
07. Touring Car Championships, Warwick Farm 1971
08. Repco Around Australia Reliability Trial 1979

Not quite sure which days the programmes are on - the schedule on their web site didn't seem to match this list.

Murray

[bradbury west]

Thanks to the good offices of Ray Bell, when i was down under last month I had the chance to see a recording of the warwick farm event. Brilliant. It was almost the full event, nigh on an hour, with only about 4 or 5 cameras so you always had good long shots following the cars around, with plenty of background, so you had a good impression of what it was really like. None of this 3 or 4 secs then cutaway like on modern f1 coverage.

Star of the race IMHO had to be young Piers Courage in the exquisite little McLaren M4 FVA vs the bigger stuff. The body language of that car as he hurled it round was superb to take 3rd, IIRC .

Roger Lund.

[Martin Roessler]

.....i particularly liked Sir Jack Brabhams rallye cross excursion
cheers marty

[2Bob]

Just a reminder for Oz TFNers- new series starts tonight:

"Former driver and now manager of motor racing at the Confederation of Australia Motor Sport and clerk of the course for the Australian Grand Prix Tim Schenken will be joining us in week two (13 November) for a bout of motor mania – sports and touring car meets from 1968, the 1969 Australian Grand Prix at Lakeside in Queensland, Touring Car Championships from Warwick Farm in 71 and 72 and finishing up on a round of endurance rather than speed with the Around Australia Reliability Trial of 1979."

Enjoy

[cosworth bdg]

Originally posted by GreenMachine


Do I really want to watch this Then again, as long as they are motorised, ....

I bet BDG will only watch if they run without a roof

You are very correct on your assumption about watching these, but i have viewed all previously, as i have genuine copies of all..........................i hope all OZ TNF'S enjoy this viewing, i have many times..................

[Martin Roessler]

just found this.....3 more new episodes

29.01 and 02.02 Warwick Farm sedans 1969
31.01 and 03.02 Warwick Farm GP 1963
01.02 and 04.02 open wheelers 68
anybody out there with a dvd recorder? i haven't got mine anymore....
will swap for old episodes...
cheers marty

[Ray Bell]

Seems I know someone who just got a new DVD recorder...

[Martin Roessler]

...i can see heaps of letters sticking out of your letterbox...
cheers marty

[Ray Bell]

Not my e.mail, however...

r@ybell.net will get me every time.