33 replies to this topic

[Sean L]

I've been wondering whether Eau Rouge is taken flat or whether there is a slight lift.

I thought that the BAR drivers were being stupid last year but I've found quotes from two drivers so far who think it's flat. Probably just the crap BAR chassis that let JV and Zonta down in quals last year.

Salo: "In qualifying trim Eau Rouge is flat, but in the race there might be a little lift in the second part, where you turn right."

Herbert: "From there you go down the hill to the best corner in F1, Eau Rouge. It's taken in sixth gear - you hold your breath as you go into it - and then you finish up at the top! It's an amazing corner, a flat-out left/right kink."

[Billy]

In 1998 AtlasF1 reported

Jacques Villeneuve was suffering no ill consequences after his big accident yesterday. He set the fourth fastest time this morning saying that he did not take the infamous Eau Rouge corner flat out this morning, but had planned to try again in qualifying as he knew it was possible.

After the qualifying accident last year Jacques Villeneuve said

I was going flat out through Eau Rouge and when the rear started to go, I just couldn't hold it. I hit the barriers very hard but the tyres absorbed a lot of the shock. There was no mechanical failure, but our cars are not easy to drive and they are quite nervous at the rear. I was simply trying too hard and the car got away from me.

Racefax reported this year that

During an interview with MotorSport aktuell, Jacques Villeneuve admitted he takes a lot of risks in the cockpit, because of the enjoyment he gets when they pay off. Did that mean things like taking Eau Rouge flat-out? "Exactly," Villeneuve said. The interviewer, Helmut Zwickl, then suggested it hadn't been possible to take the Spa corner flat in last year's BAR, presumably because of Villeneuve's accident there. Honest to a fault, Villeneuve replied, "No, it was possible, but I made a mistake. I got up on a curb and flew off after that. It is flat-out if you get it right, and I simply didn't."

In a June 2000 interview with Autosport

"Hardly anyone takes those corners flat," Villeneuve says, "so it's pure pride to do it yourself. These are the only corners where, even though you know you can do it flat, your foot comes off the throttle by itself. So it is exhilarating to force yourself to control your foot and to tell yourself, 'No, it's OK' and to actually go against what your body is telling you. It is quite an interesting feeling ..."

Eddie Irvine described Eau Rouge last year

It is certainly the most exciting corner of the season. One which you almost have to set the car up especially for. If the car is too low, it bottoms out in the corner and makes it very nervous. If you set-up the car stiffer or with a higher ride height, you have problems in the other corners on the track. It's important to get Eau Rouge right because there is a steep climbing exit over a blind brow onto the main straight. If you do not get a good exit speed, you can lose out badly down the straight to other cars behind you. If the car is working well, you can just about take the corner flat in qualifying trim which is the kind of thrill that F1 is all about.

Ricardo Zonta said

You need to go 'flat' through this corner (Eau Rouge), but the new grooved tyres might make the corner even more difficult than it normally is. It's important to make a good exit from Eau Rouge because, after that, there's Raidillon and the long Kemmel straight.

In 1995 Michael Schumacher said

L'Eau Rouge is a very special thing to experience
for a driver... There is nothing more satisfying and encouraging than to go flat through L'Eau Rouge. If you do you always feel extremely excited and know it means you are probably on for a very good lap time.

[MattC]

I've never quite understood all this fuss about whether a corner can be taken 'flat'. Sure, I could understand Zonta trying it if Villeneuve had with an _identical_ car, but surely there are usually too many variables?

For example, I bet _I_ could take Eau rouge flat in a BAR if you unplugged half the cylinders.

Also, if you got a crap exit from the hairpin before (La Source?), then even with your foot mashed to the floor you might still be 10-15mph slower up the hill, so it might be no great shakes to get through without lifting.

Or am I missing something...

[baddog]

its just an ego trip thing for the drivers, going through a real tough corner flat (didnt there used to be one in mexico or somewhere they all wanted to take flat?) is a big buzz and a boost..

and its also true that assuming the car is fast and the rest of the lap is good it will give you a fair time boost over even feathering the throttle a touch. but I suspect its mostly ego.

as for the BAR.. you need a car thats chassis is up to it plus a good driver, and the BAR wasnt up to it.. hence they shouldnt have trid to be frank.

Shaun

[MrAerodynamicist]

Originally posted by baddog
didnt there used to be one in mexico or somewhere they all wanted to take flat?

Last corner, Parabola or something. Mansell apprently did a great overtake there in '89 going around the outside of Berger on the last lap to get 3rd.

[smarty]

I think 130R is another challenging corner to take flat.

[baddog]

that move was among the top 5 moments of my F1 watching career. Noone thought it was possible.. berger was apparently stunned.

happy days
Shaun

[Force Ten]

Originally posted by baddog
its just an ego trip thing for the drivers, going through a real tough corner flat (didnt there used to be one in mexico or somewhere they all wanted to take flat?) is a big buzz and a boost..

I agree with you on this one, baddog.
I heard somewhere Hakkinen imply that flat out wasn't neccessary the fastest way through Eau Rouge.
And I think in this issue the boldness of Villeneuve is way overrated. In his book Hill said that during the GP weekend at one time or another *every* F1 driver attempts to go through Eau Rouge flat out, just for the sake of it. Like - they say nobody can take the Eau Rouge flat out, well, I'll show 'em I can!

Villeneuve just seems to be the one making a big fuss out of it every time...

[arcwulf7]

Taking Eau Rouge flat out has become an overrated symbol of f1 macho. It can be taken flat out, even on grooved tyres, providing your set up provides enough grip. It can give you a real push into the Kemmel straight. But you pretty well have to dictate your entire race set up on not lifting an iota through that corner. It sounds neat, but in all liklihood its not the best strategy for winning the race

[Billy]

In practice for the 1991 Mexican GP, Ayrton Senna tried to take the 180-degree banked Peraltada curve in a higher gear than normal, but got caught out on a bump at the exit and spun out, flipping the car into the gravel trap. As a result, the banking was removed for the 1992 race.

[Force Ten]

Originally posted by Billy
As a result, the banking was removed for the 1992 race.

And again... what color is maroon?

[goGoGene]

I take ER flat out every single time (N64 F1-World GP)

ggg

[Bruce]

For those who think that taking Eau Rouge flat is just an "ego thing" - Remember 1996? Frank Williams and Patrick Head reputedly made their decision as to whether or not to keep Damon Hill at Spa... Jacques Villeneuve was the first of their 2 drivers to take Eau Rouge flat, and at that moment FW and PH made up their minds as to their 97 starting line up...

If it's just an ego thing, it certainly seems to have some tangible effect on your reputation...

and when one looks at F1, isn't that what it is? An "ego thing"? The whole basis of the sport is "I can drive my car quicker around this circuit than yours..." If that isn't ego-driven, I don't know what is...

[Indian Chief]

http://www.formulaon...o/belgiumlap.rm

This is HAkkinen's pole position lap in 1998. Although the video quality is not very good, you can hear that he does not lift going through Eau Rouge.

Ihope the belgian directors give us onboard action from DC or RB at Eau Rouge. That is one way we'll definitely find out if Eau Rouge is flat.

[JayWay]

Eau Rouge is flat, but it's just damn freaky. You can't see where your going untill you finnaly finish the corner, everything is about instincts and pure balls.

[Billy]

Originally posted by Force Ten

Originally posted by Billy
As a result, the banking was removed for the 1992 race.

And again... what color is maroon?

[mtl'78]

Apparently last year, the only drivers going flat through Eau Rouge during the race were: Ralf, DC, JV and Frentzen. To me this says that in race trim, car setup plays a significant part in it. I also think that a lot of drivers claiming to take it flat are blowing smoke. They may have done it once or twice, but the ones I mentioned make a habit of it.

[Williams]

I recall Gerhard Berger saying that he knew he was still fast after his big accident at Imola when he found he could still take Equ Rouge flat. But I also recall Alesi saying last year after Villeneuve's accident that nobody takes Eau Rouge flat anymore.

The one guy I think would be crazy enough to take ER flat on grooved tires is Alesi.

Indian I beg to differ with you on that video. There is a distinct lift of the throttle as MH goes through the corner, heard even over Brundle's commentary.

[p][Edited by Williams on 08-23-2000]

[Megatron]

I think another one of the "great" corners will be on the banked part of the track at Indy this year.

The speeds they will reach through there (with concrete on both sides!), will be amazing.

[Mila]

judging from the quotes provided by Billy, EI and RZ seem to understand what Eau Rouge is mainly about--it's the speed you carry onto the following straight. JV seems to think that it's about something else--being manly.

baddog, that dice between Mansell and Berger was intense!

did MS refer to Eau Rouge as "L'Eau Rouge" because he now does L'Oreal ads?

[tak]

After Senna's massive crash at the Peraltada corner in Mexico, he talked about what happened. It went something along the lines of
"normally the corner is taken flat in 5th gear. I tried in in sixth. 800 HP isn't enough to take that corner flat in 6th..."

[tom]

indy chief .

"you can hear that he does not lift going through Eau Rouge. "

i heard he did lift.
he went flat on the way in, then slightly lifted in the middle then back on the power.

[The Passenger]

Thanks for the thread. I was wondering what the deal was with Jacques, Eau Rouge and "flat out"... if there's something to think about F1, someone will be talking about it at Atlas.

[Force Ten]

Originally posted by Bruce
For those who think that taking Eau Rouge flat is just an "ego thing" - Remember 1996? Frank Williams and Patrick Head reputedly made their decision as to whether or not to keep Damon Hill at Spa... Jacques Villeneuve was the first of their 2 drivers to take Eau Rouge flat, and at that moment FW and PH made up their minds as to their 97 starting line up...

Frank Williams and Patrick head made their mind about their drivers line up for 1997 already at the end of 1995. If they based their driver lineup about one corner on one track, they have to be waay dumb which I just don't believe. Well, maybe, OK, as Frank Williams has also 'reputedly' claimed that it was a mistake of letting Damon go, so maybe they were that dumb...;)
Yes, maybe that corner influenced their decision about Hill, but there was more to that.

[Force Ten]

Originally posted by Billy
And again... what color is maroon?

Senna goes into a corner. -> Selects a gear. -> (A wrong one.) -> Spins out to gravel. -> Officials change the corner...

MORONS...

Maybe they hafta change the chicane at Monza also? I mean, Häkkinen spun out on that...

[Sean L]

Giancarlo Fisichella: "I then accelerate down the hill passed the old pits reaching 310 km/h before entering what is probably the most challenging corner of any grand prix circuit, Eau Rouge. All drivers attempt to take this flat in Qualifying but its very tricky. You need to lift on the throttle to take this complex of corners at a minimum speed of 280 km/h."

So the general consensus is that it is normally flat in qualifying to achieve a good lap time but during the race there is usually a slight lift. I doubt any of the drivers, even with a well balanced car, would take it flat out consistently for the whole race with heavier fuel levels and tyre wear dictating the limits.

[umma gumma]

actually, I think in that JV interview he says the (other) main reason he tries to take it flat is that not many others do, and if you do, you can make up a couple of tenths through it and carry more speed onto the straight...yada yada.

also I watched the crash where he said he "made a mistake", and he definitely clips the inside curb with his right front going into the apex, which starts his spin/slide....I think he'd have made it fine if that hadn't happened. FWIW.

[Force Ten]

And one thing more about that way oversignified subject.

You guys don't see a certain Michael Schumacher going round and touting about Eau Rouge flat and this and that how nobody does it and only I do blablabla? How come the guy has still won almost every GP in Spa he's ever finished? You haven't seen JV won that many GP's in Spa?

[umma gumma]

actually, i think it's the press and the fans who tout it so much, they're the ones who seem to dwell on it. witness this thread. also media dig for any kind of sensationalism at every race, and this is just part of it. JV has crashed out there trying to be competitive so often, it's like a seasonal feature.

but it sure beats the hell out of all the stupid "who's the best driver" etc threads everyone starts here.

[JayWay]

Force Ten,

Because Schumacher and Villeneuve have different views on racing. Jacques racing for the pure thrill, the risk, and everything that is pure about racing. Michael races in a more calculated way to win. It is like Damon Hill said, put a bunch of F1 drivers in a room and they will have a good laugh, put Michael in the room and he recons it would be boring. Michael is just that type of guy.

[Janzen]

In todays Qualifying there was in car shot of DC and i thought i heard him lift in ER.

I think that the cars today in the course of being fast on the rest on the track need a setup that do not give a the chance to take ER flat out. Remeber also that the top teams have more power, what you can do in a minardi might not be the same as a Mac

[Keith Steele]

If you cant see what it means to the drivers by the quotes than why bother? It is there plain as day. Janzen, I guarantee you that the McLaren is a much easier car to drive than the Minardi, Sauber etc... even with the extra horses.

[JayWay]

I dunno about Minardi, they have a superb chassis.

[Keith Steele]

I know you dont know Jay ;)