149 replies to this topic

[Terry Walker]

This thought struck me as I was rereading some 1960 motor sport journals here in Western Australia, where there were three manufacturers of Karts fighting it out. Victa lawn-mower engines, etc. I wondered, where are they now? Anybody got any vintage ones?

You could have quite a stable of them for just a few bucks, and even a little London lockup could harbour quite a few, stacked three deep on racks.

I know, I know: there's probably a lively historic kart scene....I just haven't seen or heard of it.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
This thought struck me as I was rereading some 1960 motor sport journals here in Western Australia, where there were three manufacturers of Karts fighting it out. Victa lawn-mower engines, etc. I wondered, where are they now? Anybody got any vintage ones?

You could have quite a stable of them for just a few bucks, and even a little London lockup could harbour quite a few, stacked three deep on racks.

I know, I know: there's probably a lively historic kart scene....I just haven't seen or heard of it.

At a carboot I was at a couple of months ago there was what looked like a 60s kart chassis, with nobody taking any interest in it... maybe I should've bought it! ;P

[f1steveuk]

I started researching this for a programme feature, and googled "historic karts" "vintage karts" etc, and got a couple of good site for UK collectors, and drivers. Ray Baxter used to have a very nice old kart that he onced used against Stirling Moss, Henry Cooper, and I think Freddie Mills in a charity thing at Brands Hatch.

[Terry Walker]

After I posted, I wandered off around the world with Mr Google, which is what I should have done first. It's big enough for historic kart meetings in the USA, but the Australian scene is an enigma, and the local scene in my neighbourhood seems invisible. Maybe I'm on the ground floor of something big.

We had a manufacturer here in Perth called Avion, and the chassis was designed by veteran local motor motorcycle and motor racing legend Clem Dwyer, who also raced karts vigorously almost as soon as they hit the local scene. There were a couple of other builders, too.

If I can't afford a Birrana F2 or a Lotus 23b, maybe I can afford a 1960 Avion with a Victa lawnmower engine. H'mmmm.

[Cris]

Indeed they do:

http://www.vintagekarts.com/

A lot of the rare stuff trades for obscene money.

Cris

[BRG]

Historic karts seemed to surface during last year in the UK and raised a lot of interest. This year will see the first UK series organised covering various categories and ages of kart.

[Terry Walker]

I just visited that site. 757,000 visitors

[HistoricMustang]

A little off subject but wanted to get this photograph from early sixties documented.

Henry



Anyone want to ID the cars in immediate background? Second from right looks like a Jag - model/year???? Hard to believe these were located in rural Georgia in the early '60's.

Third from right is a Chevy ('59/'60), the other two?

Other control tower in background is for drag strip.

[MPea3]

Looking at the pants on the guy driving tha kart, that rural Georgia track would appear to be in a flood plane.

[D-Type]

Far right is a Ford (GB) Anglia 105E 1960-66 or so. The backward sloping rear window is a dead giveaway.
Can't say abou the Jag - I have a better monitor at work so I'll have look tomorrow if I have a minute.

[HistoricMustang]

Originally posted by MPea3
Looking at the pants on the guy driving tha kart, that rural Georgia track would appear to be in a flood plane.

Funny how styles come back around. My wife has several of these in the closet...........believe I will pass on this retro-fit at this time.

[RTH]

The Villiers 9E engine from the '50s & 60s which also had a variant that powered the pale blue 3 wheel invalid carriages of the period.

[Alan Cox]

Historic karts were represented at this year's Stoneleigh show so there is clearly growing interest.

[coldplugs]

The car on the far left looks like a Studebaker, with a 1955 or '56 Oldsmobile in the row behind it. It's clearly early sixties. I am very surprised to see the Ford Anglia there since they were not common in the US.

I'm not sure what the karts are - if it's a drag strip then I presume they had clutches. At that time only the lower powered karts used them. Typically these used Clinton lawnmower engines with centrifugal clutches.

As of early sixties, the faster karts used chain saw engines (McCulloch, Homelite, West Bend). Karts of 5.8 ci or less ran in "Class A" if the engines used bushings and A-Super if they had roller and needle bearings. Virtually all were 2 stroke.

This was my kart (Made by Bug) set up for class B-Super, with 2 5.3 ci "Mac-10" chainsaw engines. No clutch, 9-1 gear ratio, solid rear axle with a single hydraulic disk brake. This was a very common setup at the time. The engines cost $125 each and I'm sure go for far more today.

[philippe charuest]

Originally posted by MPea3
Looking at the pants on the guy driving tha kart, that rural Georgia track would appear to be in a flood plane.

, we all did that putting the pant inside the sox or using tape or clip myself i was of the ducktape school , if not the pants were flapping like a sail in the wind , when i started in karting everybody was racing in bluejeans

[ghinzani]

Theres a series in the UK now, see here : http://groups.msn.com/RetroKarting

[oscatipo]

Autoweek recently had a great article about karting's 50th anniversary in Cali:

http://autoweek.com/...=73239668194936

[Vitesse2]

Originally posted by D-Type
Far right is a Ford (GB) Anglia 105E 1960-66 or so. The backward sloping rear window is a dead giveaway.
Can't say abou the Jag - I have a better monitor at work so I'll have look tomorrow if I have a minute.

The Jag looks like an XK120 - IIRC rear wheel spats were standard, whereas they were optional on the XK140. Plus the XK140 had a more substantial front bumper.

[d.emerson]

I recently hesitated to buy this on ebay ....

http://cgi.befr.ebay...item=4620501226

[Arjan de Roos]

I know that in Holland some enthusiasts have started a classic kart scene. However the sites still lack some historic pictures, but I know people are restoring karts used in the fifties and sixties. Even karts from the seventies and eighties are somewhat regarded as 'classic' of 'historic'.

I even read about rarities such as six-wheel karts that had been rediscovered in a barn. Will look for this article tonight.

Have a look here:
http://www.histokart.nl/index.html

A small link devoted to restoration of karts (needs to be filled with more info and pictures I guess)
http://classickartre...ex.php?id=44848


Some (really) classic Dutch tracks are:
- Uitgeest (which unfortunately is to be closed due to the rural development)
http://www.kartbaanuitgeest.nl/

- Strijen

- Driebergen
http://www.ibw.nl/kartbaandriebergen/

-Eefde
http://www.kartingeefde.nl/

- Oldenzaal (where Alain Prost became 1973 Junior WC)
http://www.karting.tk/



In the UK there is a club active:
http://groups.msn.com/Retrokarting

[Vicuna]

Originally posted by Terry Walker


If I can't afford a Birrana F2 or a Lotus 23b, maybe I can afford a 1960 Avion with a Victa lawnmower engine. H'mmmm.

You'll at least have a link with Scuderia Veloce..

[Patrick Fletcher]

When Buckler finished manufacturing their sports cars, did they not turn to karts ?

[eldougo]

;)
It already started out here in OZ at E Creek we had 3 kart testing last year.To get some feedback from people and where to find them???? That is the BIG question.

[roger saretzki]

a longer time ago i bought a very nice historic cart , without engine .

can you help me to find out which make it is?????????

how can i get a photo into the threat?

my mail : rogerracing@web.de

regards from germany , roger

[Cirrus]

As for me - I'd love an early seventies Taifun with a Komet K77 or K88. I drove a "high steering" version in 1972, and it was unbelievably good. Carlheinz Peters lost his front teeth in 1970 on the high steering wheel after an altercation with Francois Goldstein - luckily, I was wearing a full face helmet when I drove one!

Now.... where do I get a set of Blue Streaks?

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Cirrus
Now.... where do I get a set of Blue Streaks?

Hands up how many TNFers know that's a Goodyear kart tyre?

(can't help, but how about a pair of Carlisles on Blow Victor wheels?)

Twinny...why not make this the Karting History thread?

[philippe charuest]

first kart i had was on blue streaks wit" trip", good for a whole season no two season but i litle slow to warm up definitly not Q-tire.

[Bondy]

They have about a dozen turn up to the Over 40s meet at Coffs Harbour each year with more and more coming out of the woodwork. I raced at Ballarat the other week and there was a couple there on display, one being a later model, circa 80s being a Zip GP with air cooled Rotax 125cc engine.

[philippe charuest]

if people want to post pictures they are welcome . for instance id like to see that ""Taifun""

[philippe charuest]

Originally posted by roger saretzki
a longer time ago i bought a very nice historic cart , without engine .

can you help me to find out which make it is?????????

how can i get a photo into the threat?

my mail : rogerracing@web.de

regards from germany , roger

http://imageshack.us/
ImageShack® - Hosting

[eldougo]

This from Coffs last year....

[Terry Walker]

They way we were . . .

Early 1960s kart racing in Western Australia, photos by Ken Devine and Milton McCutcheon.







That's Milton McCutcheon in the glasses, kart 30. He was a top karter in those days. Note that he raced an original "Go-Kart" ...

[RTH]

Originally posted by Terry Walker
They way we were . . .

Early 1960s kart racing

What an elegantly simple racing machine , a lesson from history modern motor sport would do well to learn from.

[Cirrus]

Yes, the GoKart, like the Xterminator and the Bug were very elegant designs. Bumpers changed the whole face of karting (as did huge rollcages in American Sprint Car racing). You wouldn't want to give someone a bit of a nerf with the kart in the picture! Before bumper regs were sorted out, it was possible for a driver to give the kart in front "a little tap" and end up with his/her feet hooked underneath its rear bumper, and to be dragged along.

I started kart racing in 1971, and in those days it was extremely dangerous. At Blackbushe (my home track), there was a single St Johns Ambulance (staffed by well-meaning amateurs who were very good at dispensing a nice cup of tea and applying a sticking plaster, but maybe less good at an emergency Tracheotimy). That vehicle was usually pressed into service at an early stage of proceedings to take somebody to casualty. Subsequent victims were removed from the circuit in the backs of oily Transits.

Karts started to lose their simplicity with the Tecno of '63/'64. Designers were beginning to realise that kart dynamics were totally different to car dynamics, and kart steering geometry had nothing to do with car racing.

Having said that - I'll reiterate my desire for a '71/'72 Taifun chassis (preferably with the high steering column) and a Komet K77 or K88 (condition unimportant!).

[canon1753]

This may be my only way of getting into racing....

Does look like fun, now I have to drop 45kg.... :

[eldougo]

Cirrus.

I used to race at Blackbushe in the mid to late 70s ! Does it still exist or gone in to RealEstate.
And like you i am loking for something in any condition..

[BRG]

Originally posted by eldougo
I used to race at Blackbushe in the mid to late 70s ! Does it still exist or gone in to RealEstate.

It is still going strong - see http://www.camberley-kartclub.co.uk/ - but you have fight your way past the British Car Auctions site and the Blackbushe Sunday market (without buying either a car or a cheap watch) to get to it.

[Terry Walker]

Just looking back at the pics I posted, what a lineup of classic vehicles in pic 3: from far to near, Chrysler Valiant, Consul, VW Kombi, Hillman Minx (or Gazelle), and a 40s Wolseley.

[barrykm]

Originally posted by Cirrus
As for me - I'd love an early seventies Taifun with a Komet K77 or K88. I drove a "high steering" version in 1972, and it was unbelievably good. Carlheinz Peters lost his front teeth in 1970 on the high steering wheel after an altercation with Francois Goldstein - luckily, I was wearing a full face helmet when I drove one!

Now.... where do I get a set of Blue Streaks?

I had the pleasure of owning and racing one of Carlheinz's "high-steering" Taifuns in 74/75, it was the only kart I ever owned. I loved it .To this day still prefer a high steering wheel setting in my road cars.

[Arjan de Roos]

Just found this site. Harm Schuurman is quite a dutch go-karting star. Have a look at his wonderful site on his collection of historice karts. He started a museum for them. He is also involved professionally in karting. Anyhow read his autobiography!

http://vkcschuurman....pic.de/home.htm

[macoran]

I still have my 1980 Landia.....somewhere in the shed.

[Flathead]

Originally posted by Patrick Fletcher
When Buckler finished manufacturing their sports cars, did they not turn to karts ?

Bucklers in England ( Berkshire) started producing karts from about 1959 and continued until about 1968. This overlaped a bit with their cars but the karts proved to be an easier way to make a profit. Jack Barlow was the prime mover of kart design at Bucklers and when Bucklers closed he continued to develop his ideas using his own kart marque of Barlotti.

A Google search for Buckler Karts will prove fruitful for photos and more detailed info.

[eldougo]

Kart racing in Italy


Martin Hines ...very young Martin.....on two wheels.


Emo giving a demo 1974 (note the larger rear tyres that had just come in to use)

[Lemnpiper]

Eldougo

Umm is the guy leading in the 1st Photo only wearing socks and no shoes???



Paul

[eldougo]

Paul i first thought that but a closer look shows they are very thin tennis shoes you can justs the bow off the laces. How do you like the material taped around the front push bar .I forget the name of the chassis the where very popular in their day made of pressed metal....

Here is another with some protection..

[stuartbrs]

Paul i first thought that but a closer look shows they are very thin tennis shoes you can justs the bow off the laces. How do you like the material taped around the front push bar .I forget the name of the chassis the where very popular in their day made of pressed metal....

Here is another with some protection..

What I like about those pics is seeing the drivers leaning INTO the corners! Unlike todays Karts, where the idea is to unload the inside rear...

[Terry Walker]

Mid 1960s, Western Australia:

[ken devine]

A historic Kart club has been formed in WA by several older Karters although they haven't actually had a race meeting.They have
several 60sand 70s karts ready to go.There is a strong historic club in the Eastern States.
The photo Terry posted shows Ray Griffiths leading Milton McCutcheon at the Burswood Circuit which is now under the Burswood
Golf Coarse.

[elansprint72]

There were some classic Karts at Race Retro last week-end; I'm afraid that I know nothing about the subject other than this one was the most spectacular.

Edited by elansprint72, 20 March 2010 - 13:43.

[elansprint72]

A few more from Stoneleigh.

Edited by elansprint72, 20 March 2010 - 14:08.