Skirts have been banned by the FIA from 1983. The skirts were considered as dangerous, because of the possibility that something could break and result in a sudden, unpredictable loss of downforce.
But skirts are currently in use in the GP2-cars. Are their any reports about broken skirts? If not, why are the skirts at the GP2-car so save? If a driver losses it and slides over a curbstone, he could damage his skirts. The spec car doesn't make much difference to situation of Formula 1 in 1982, does it?
BTW, does anyone as a picture of the GP2-underbody?
Thanks!
Skirts on GP2-cars
Started by
Pingguest
, Jan 21 2006 14:30
8 replies to this topic
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#2
swaction
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Posted 22 January 2006 - 10:07
In these two pics you can see a thin grey line at the leading edge of the sidepods - perhaps this is the skirt? I don't think it's a skirt like in the 70's though...
http://common.weblog...232809713000103
http://www.skyscrape...res/gp2-008.jpg
http://common.weblog...232809713000103
http://www.skyscrape...res/gp2-008.jpg
#3
-RM-
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#4
Andy Donovan
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Posted 22 January 2006 - 15:36
It looks to me more like the floor just has a downturn at the edges rather than it being a seperate skirt, so I would imagine it will be a lot more sturdy than the 70s material versions.
Also, as it doesn't reach right down to the floor like the 70s version the effect of it being lost would be less, so you're less likely to fly off the track due to a sudden loss of downforce if it breaks (which is why they were banned originally).
Also, as it doesn't reach right down to the floor like the 70s version the effect of it being lost would be less, so you're less likely to fly off the track due to a sudden loss of downforce if it breaks (which is why they were banned originally).
#5
rhm
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Posted 22 January 2006 - 22:57
RCE had an article on the GP2 cars in the January issue. Words by Charles Armstrong-Wilson with quotes from F1 designer Sergio Rinland. Here's what they say about the skirts:
It looks like the skirts are less than 10mm and are not intended to be sliding like the problematic F1 skirts of the late '70s. It's anyones guess how much they increase the downforce compared to just having the horizontal edge of the floor 'sealing' the underfloor area. It would be better, for the reasons Rinland states, if they had achieved that downforce with a longer tunnel or better extraction from the beam wing. Assuming that downforce is necessary of course. As a spec series they could settle on any aero package they liked, but the idea was to make a car that could get near to back-of-the-grid F1 times.
Rinland is clearer on why Dallara decided to rely so heavilly on tunnels. "The motivation to put tunnels was not so much to balance the car or help overtaking but to achieve more overall downforce. With more downforce you can go faster. How do you get more downforce more easily? Put tunnels and skirts on the cars." However he has a strong view on the latter. "The skirts in my view shouldn't be there." His main objection is durability and consistency when they touch the ground. "You get wear on them. You have to keep changing them and setting them up. It wastes a lot of time and is a huge performance factor. You shouldn't have anything on the car that wears on the ground apart from the floor. So I'm against the skirts."
It looks like the skirts are less than 10mm and are not intended to be sliding like the problematic F1 skirts of the late '70s. It's anyones guess how much they increase the downforce compared to just having the horizontal edge of the floor 'sealing' the underfloor area. It would be better, for the reasons Rinland states, if they had achieved that downforce with a longer tunnel or better extraction from the beam wing. Assuming that downforce is necessary of course. As a spec series they could settle on any aero package they liked, but the idea was to make a car that could get near to back-of-the-grid F1 times.
#6
Pingguest
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Posted 25 January 2006 - 16:42
Correct if I'm wrong, but isn't possible to set the car so low that the skirts actually touch the ground?
#7
rhm
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Posted 25 January 2006 - 19:27
Yes. What they're saying though is that they break off too easily if they hit. I mean the tracks aren't so smooth that you could run a rigid skirt against the ground without breaking it.
#8
F3000
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Posted 27 January 2006 - 13:19
The nylon skirts only touch the ground when the car is in roll, or going over kerbs. They are sacrificial rubbing strips. You will see that late in a race the rearward half of the strip usually gets worn, this happens mostly when the car is rolling and squatting when exiting a corner.
The GP2 car has a normal 50mm stepped bottom (like current F1 cars) and at the floor's outermost edge there are nylon skirts that extend down to within 5mm of the plane of the bottom of the chassis. So, with a new plank on the car, the skirts sit 10mm above the plane of the bottom of the plank.
The GP2 car has a normal 50mm stepped bottom (like current F1 cars) and at the floor's outermost edge there are nylon skirts that extend down to within 5mm of the plane of the bottom of the chassis. So, with a new plank on the car, the skirts sit 10mm above the plane of the bottom of the plank.
#9
rhm
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Posted 27 January 2006 - 21:17
They are not "sacrificial". That implies that they are meant to be worn away in order to protect something else. There is no need to protect the floor in that way and even if there was, there are much better ways to do it.
Those skirts were put there to add downforce. The fact that they wear away or break off is a design fault unless you consider it a good idea for the aerodynamics of the car to randomly change during a race. And as Sergio Rinland says, they waste a lot of team time in replacing them and sitting them up right.
Those skirts were put there to add downforce. The fact that they wear away or break off is a design fault unless you consider it a good idea for the aerodynamics of the car to randomly change during a race. And as Sergio Rinland says, they waste a lot of team time in replacing them and sitting them up right.
