I was just flipping thru one of my old racing books and I was looking at a picture of this car and couldn't figure out where the name came from.
Can anybody offer an explanation?
The "birdcage" Maserati
Started by
Don Capps
, Nov 24 1999 08:52
17 replies to this topic
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#2
Fast One
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Posted 24 November 1999 - 10:49
Keith--
The term "birdcage" refers to the chassis tubing being visible, in fact, prominant when looking into the cockpit. The result as the driver looked like he was sitting in a cage, hence the name.
The term "birdcage" refers to the chassis tubing being visible, in fact, prominant when looking into the cockpit. The result as the driver looked like he was sitting in a cage, hence the name.
#3
Buzz
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Posted 24 November 1999 - 12:00
Typo 61 Maseratis were exceptioanl cars. Maserati wasn't in the best financial health and they couldn't afford to develop an all new engine for 3 liter sports racing cars. The Birdcages were powered by four cylinder engines that were stretched to 2860ccs. They didn't make as much power as the V12 and inline 6 powered cars they raced, so they were built as light and compact as possible. Their space frames consisted of a multitude of thin tubes, as Fast One alluded to. They were unusual in their construction as well as having visible tubing. They may have mounted a serious challenge to Ferrari except Maserati was broke and the 61s were campaigned by Lucky Kasner's Camaradi team. They were about a step up from a shoestring operation and didn't have the resources to take on the factories.
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#4
Don Capps
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Posted 24 November 1999 - 08:52
The Camoradi team that was hatched through the fast-talking skills of Lucky Casner was actually rather successful all things being considered. It won the Nurburgring 1000kms twice and several other events as well. Fred Gamble of Goodyear helped slide some money in Lucky's direction and the Camoradi team was about the first to race at the top levels on Goodyear tires and have some success.
Here is a recently restored example:
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Here is a recently restored example:
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
#5
Don Capps
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Posted 24 November 1999 - 21:34
Nice view of the Birdcage telaio (chassis) at the Indy museum:
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
#6
Buzz
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Posted 24 November 1999 - 23:21
Don,
I didn't mean to denigrate the Camoradi squad. I hope it didn't come off that way. They just weren't as well funded as Ferrari, is the impression I've gotten from Denise McCluggage. Have you seen her "Send Lucky to Camp" stories?
I didn't mean to denigrate the Camoradi squad. I hope it didn't come off that way. They just weren't as well funded as Ferrari, is the impression I've gotten from Denise McCluggage. Have you seen her "Send Lucky to Camp" stories?
#7
FlagMan
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Posted 24 November 1999 - 23:42
I remember about 25 years ago talking to an old guy called Bob Vincent, who used to race a 'birdcage' in local Libre events at Aintree.
It was after he had pulled off with fuel pump failure. He said the car was great, but its main fault was fuel pump failure - he had at least 4 Lucas high pressure pumps, one on the car, one in the truck, one in the post on its way back to Lucas and one in the post on its way back from Lucas.
A really great guy - about 65-70 years old, still driving balls out in great sports cars, Maserati, Chevrons, etc. Always carried a packet of Woodbines and a box of matches in the padding of his helmet!
[This message has been edited by FlagMan (edited 11-24-1999).]
It was after he had pulled off with fuel pump failure. He said the car was great, but its main fault was fuel pump failure - he had at least 4 Lucas high pressure pumps, one on the car, one in the truck, one in the post on its way back to Lucas and one in the post on its way back from Lucas.
A really great guy - about 65-70 years old, still driving balls out in great sports cars, Maserati, Chevrons, etc. Always carried a packet of Woodbines and a box of matches in the padding of his helmet!
[This message has been edited by FlagMan (edited 11-24-1999).]
#8
Don Capps
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Posted 25 November 1999 - 00:00
Buzz, I didn't take it that way at all! The story of Camoradi (Casner Motor Racing Division) is one that makes one often think of the old adadge about sausauge-making: some things you probably really don't want to know. Needless to say, it is all great stuff and a hoot to think of some of the stuff that went on back then. Lucky apparently was usually about a half step in front of the law most of the time and so was greatly admired by many... 
Tie all that in with what was happening at Maserati at that time and lovely stuff to keep the tongues wagging for ages. The greatest loss to F1 is the loss of the privateers and the small race shops simply because they were always up to something... Whatever they were -- often mobile chicanes -- they kept the pot stirred and things brewing at a low hover. Lucky Casner was just an extreme example of that type (but not as extreme as you would think), but he definitely made life fun & exciting.
I will have to get a better picture of the Cheetah, it was pretty amazing. It had a big ol' Chevy crammed into it and could have been a contender if Bill Thomas had had the money to do some serious testing and development. Ah, Southern California, a hotbed of wonderful cars like this.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
Tie all that in with what was happening at Maserati at that time and lovely stuff to keep the tongues wagging for ages. The greatest loss to F1 is the loss of the privateers and the small race shops simply because they were always up to something... Whatever they were -- often mobile chicanes -- they kept the pot stirred and things brewing at a low hover. Lucky Casner was just an extreme example of that type (but not as extreme as you would think), but he definitely made life fun & exciting.
I will have to get a better picture of the Cheetah, it was pretty amazing. It had a big ol' Chevy crammed into it and could have been a contender if Bill Thomas had had the money to do some serious testing and development. Ah, Southern California, a hotbed of wonderful cars like this.
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
#9
Buzz
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Posted 25 November 1999 - 01:12
Is the Cheetah the car that looks like a cross between a short nose D-type and a funny car? I think it is stil vintage raced. I seem to have missed how it ties in with this thread. Please explain.
#10
Don Capps
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Posted 25 November 1999 - 01:20
Well, ah, they're in the same forum?
(Actually, I meant that comment to go into the Big Bangers and forgot to cut it for later pasting...
duh...)
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
(Actually, I meant that comment to go into the Big Bangers and forgot to cut it for later pasting...
duh...)------------------
Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
#11
Buzz
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Posted 25 November 1999 - 03:05
I thought you were going to say it was built on a Maserati 61 chassis!
#12
Dr.DeDion
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Posted 25 November 1999 - 15:08
I can't resist commenting on the topic of my all-time fave (and Stirling Moss's), the best handling front engined sports-racer of all.Although the tipo 61 is most commonly identified as the Birdcage Maserati, the tipo 60, which was the 2-liter version, bore the same moniker and the tipi 62 and 63 were referred to as mid-engined Birdcages.
The tipo 60 came first.Moss won the 2-liter class of the Nurburgring 1000 with it on its debut event, finishing 2nd or 3rd overall.Then the Maserati staff sat back and expected the orders for their latest Porsche-beater to pour in...but they didn't.The tipo 61 was sort of a desperate effort to make a version which would sell.They enlarged the engine to its practical limit of 2.9 liters and managed to sell some to Castner for his World Sports Car Championship effort and to various amateur and professional racers in America.
The frame of the tipi 60 and 61 weighed less than 70 pounds but were admirably stiff.Giulio Alfieri said that his intent was to design a tubular spece frame which would exceed the rigidity-to-weight ratio of contemporary monocoques.And judging by its success at the 'Ring and other bumpy-jumpy tracks, he succeeded.It had a number of other classic Maserati features like the rear transaxle, DeDion rear end and 4-cylinder engine skewed to the side and tilted 45 degrees.
One of the Camoradi team's main problems was not having a team manager who would enforce discipline on the drivers.They could have easily won the Sebring 12hr if the 2 Camoradi team mates, Gurney and Moss, hadn't gotten into a personal contest for the fastest race lap.The car broke in the final hour with a huge lead.Maglioli and Vaccarella got into a similar duel with similar results which robbed them of a win at the Targa and these 2 races were not the only examles of the problem.For the Nurburgring Maserati hired Piero Taruffi to act as team manager for Camoradi in order to ensure at least one positive result for the year.Although handling was the strong suit of the Birdcage, it was fast enough on the straigts to set the fastest race lap at the '61 LeMans race as well.
While the Birdcages' history in the World Championship was a series screw ups interspersed with the occassional victory, it had a very successful career in professional road racing in the U.S.The high point of its stateside service ocurred when the little-known Californian Billy Krause beat Moss's Lotus 19, Gurney's Cooper Monaco and a large field of Porsches, Scarabs, etc. to win the L.A. Times GP at Riverside.
I could write a book on this subject, but not right now, plus I'd have to check facts and I've probably bored you all sufficiently for the nonce...
'Still waiting for my SZ bearing to arrive'
[This message has been edited by Dr.DeDion (edited 11-25-1999).]
The tipo 60 came first.Moss won the 2-liter class of the Nurburgring 1000 with it on its debut event, finishing 2nd or 3rd overall.Then the Maserati staff sat back and expected the orders for their latest Porsche-beater to pour in...but they didn't.The tipo 61 was sort of a desperate effort to make a version which would sell.They enlarged the engine to its practical limit of 2.9 liters and managed to sell some to Castner for his World Sports Car Championship effort and to various amateur and professional racers in America.
The frame of the tipi 60 and 61 weighed less than 70 pounds but were admirably stiff.Giulio Alfieri said that his intent was to design a tubular spece frame which would exceed the rigidity-to-weight ratio of contemporary monocoques.And judging by its success at the 'Ring and other bumpy-jumpy tracks, he succeeded.It had a number of other classic Maserati features like the rear transaxle, DeDion rear end and 4-cylinder engine skewed to the side and tilted 45 degrees.
One of the Camoradi team's main problems was not having a team manager who would enforce discipline on the drivers.They could have easily won the Sebring 12hr if the 2 Camoradi team mates, Gurney and Moss, hadn't gotten into a personal contest for the fastest race lap.The car broke in the final hour with a huge lead.Maglioli and Vaccarella got into a similar duel with similar results which robbed them of a win at the Targa and these 2 races were not the only examles of the problem.For the Nurburgring Maserati hired Piero Taruffi to act as team manager for Camoradi in order to ensure at least one positive result for the year.Although handling was the strong suit of the Birdcage, it was fast enough on the straigts to set the fastest race lap at the '61 LeMans race as well.
While the Birdcages' history in the World Championship was a series screw ups interspersed with the occassional victory, it had a very successful career in professional road racing in the U.S.The high point of its stateside service ocurred when the little-known Californian Billy Krause beat Moss's Lotus 19, Gurney's Cooper Monaco and a large field of Porsches, Scarabs, etc. to win the L.A. Times GP at Riverside.
I could write a book on this subject, but not right now, plus I'd have to check facts and I've probably bored you all sufficiently for the nonce...
'Still waiting for my SZ bearing to arrive'
[This message has been edited by Dr.DeDion (edited 11-25-1999).]
#13
Keith Sawatsky
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Posted 26 November 1999 - 10:43
Thanks for the replies and pictures.
The tube frame explains it all....if anybody ever walked away from an accident in one of those without ending up as shishkabob I'd be amazed!
The tube frame explains it all....if anybody ever walked away from an accident in one of those without ending up as shishkabob I'd be amazed!
#14
Dr.DeDion
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Posted 26 November 1999 - 11:08
I'm not aware of anyone being hurt in one.It was also one of the first european race cars to feature a shoulder harness and a roll bar.
In the interests of accuracy, I went back to the article that quoted Moss on the subject of Masers.He actually said that the Maserati 300S and the Aston DB3S were his favorite cars, but I get the feeling he had a lot of them!
In the interests of accuracy, I went back to the article that quoted Moss on the subject of Masers.He actually said that the Maserati 300S and the Aston DB3S were his favorite cars, but I get the feeling he had a lot of them!
#15
Don Capps
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Posted 26 November 1999 - 13:33
Another picture of the telaio of a Tipo 61:
Each was slightly different and that could be a problem at times, but everyone just remembered that they were dealing with Maserati and took that into consideration...
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
[This message has been edited by Don Capps (edited 11-26-1999).]
Each was slightly different and that could be a problem at times, but everyone just remembered that they were dealing with Maserati and took that into consideration...
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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,
Don Capps
[This message has been edited by Don Capps (edited 11-26-1999).]
#16
Alan Lewis
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Posted 09 April 2005 - 13:38
Coincidences Happen, # 273 in a long, long series :
Trawling through the old threads (nearly read them all now!), I come across this from the very early days of TNF - and tomorrow will be the fortieth anniversary of the death of Lloyd Casner at the Le Mans Test Weekend.
Another one to remember, who should be remembered.
APL
Trawling through the old threads (nearly read them all now!), I come across this from the very early days of TNF - and tomorrow will be the fortieth anniversary of the death of Lloyd Casner at the Le Mans Test Weekend.
Another one to remember, who should be remembered.
APL
#18
HDonaldCapps
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Posted 09 April 2005 - 20:29
My goodness, has it been that long since we lost ol' Lucky? One can scarcely even begin to imagine how he would have enjoyed the sponsorship era when it hit Europe.... Alas, while he may been something of a rascal, he was our rascal....
For those who take all this for granted, this is pretty how things were way back then, we generally talked among ourselves with little thought of "posterity" and mostly to find a (or rather the) few other kindred souls out there. It was all quite low-key and certainly the Amateur Hour compared to the slick, smooth way things now operate.
For those who take all this for granted, this is pretty how things were way back then, we generally talked among ourselves with little thought of "posterity" and mostly to find a (or rather the) few other kindred souls out there. It was all quite low-key and certainly the Amateur Hour compared to the slick, smooth way things now operate.
