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#101 Twin Window

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 01:22

Originally posted by bigears

Any chance of a high res photo image of the Birmingham Superprix track chaps? :)


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I hope that's ok. :up:

Originally posted by St.Hubbins

Barry, there is a keyhole kmz file available with just about every major football ground in the world. I think at the last count there were something like 3,500 stadia placemarked.

http://bbs.keyhole.c...rt/1/vc/1/nt/16


I've just downloaded it... unbelievable! :eek:

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#102 Ruairidh

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 03:10

Originally posted by bill moffat
Indeed it is ! 840 yards of private driveway used just 5 times between 1972 and 1974.

The Penrice estate was owned and run by the Methuen-Campbells who graciously allowed these unlikely events to take place. Perhaps not the most challenging of courses but it was (and remains) a gorgeous location. The Hill record was set at just over 29 seconds.

The surrounding area is very beautiful and I pay a couple of visits a year. The local beach at Oxwich is wonderful (although very crowded in the summer), whilst the finest beach in the UK (but don't tell anyone) is 5 miles down the Gower Road at Rhossili.


You know, I will never, ever stop being amazed by what I find out here.

This must have been close to the start (and I never knew there was an "official" record to go for!)....

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And this half way along looking back to the house

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With the view across to Oxwich Bay from the house (you can just see the track just above half way up the left hand side)

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#103 philippe7

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 07:17

Can anybody tell me what software to use to read Mark's .kmz file ? My PC doesn't seem to have any idea

Sorry for being thick :blush:

Thanks in advance

#104 fvebr

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 07:48

Originally posted by philippe7
Can anybody tell me what software to use to read Mark's .kmz file ? My PC doesn't seem to have any idea

Sorry for being thick :blush:

Thanks in advance


Google earth

#105 philippe7

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 09:11

Ah , yes, I see....( or I don't , rather, since I haven't yet downloaded the thing ) ;)

Thank you, fvebr !

#106 ian senior

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 09:29

Originally posted by Ruairidh


You know, I will never, ever stop being amazed by what I find out here.

This must have been close to the start (and I never knew there was an "official" record to go for!)....

Posted Image

And this half way along looking back to the house

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With the view across to Oxwich Bay from the house (you can just see the track just above half way up the left hand side)

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Isn't that just bloody marvellous? For some reason it made me think of Bach's "Sheep may safely graze", except in this case there would be an addendum "but not when there are racing cars about". The scene was not at all unlike the old Castle Howard hillclimb too.

#107 James Page

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 09:36

Originally posted by ian senior


Isn't that just bloody marvellous? For some reason it made me think of Bach's "Sheep may safely graze", except in this case there would be an addendum "but not when there are racing cars about". The scene was not at all unlike the old Castle Howard hillclimb too.


I told Dad about this thread and the Penrise bit in particular. Being based in Bristol, it wasn't a million miles away from home, and he'd competed there. What he said painted quite a nice picture of the place:

I remember it well.
There was an old orangery close to the start and it wasn't too short with a
deer park at the finish.
very nice.
I think I got a result there in the Alvis but can't remember if it was a
class win or a 3rd. They only used it a few times and I remember Nigel Pow
spinning the ex Eccles(I think) Brabham Buick (he had only just bought it)
going over the line very fast and it went round and round across the deer
park!

#108 bill moffat

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 11:54

Originally posted by Ruairidh


You know, I will never, ever stop being amazed by what I find out here.

This must have been close to the start (and I never knew there was an "official" record to go for!)....

Posted Image



Your Alfa is parked up next to the Methuen Campbell's house. This was about 1/2 way up the hill and if you can picture a mirror image of "Pardon" at Prescott you will get the idea.

If you'd given the Alfa a bit of a squirt then a 34 second climb would have been quick in "your" class. If you go onto the Swansea Motor Club web site you will see a photo of Brian Jenkin's Morgan negotiating this bend, with respect he's making a better job of the apex than you !

Those with a knowledge of 2 wheels will remember that Oxwich Sands were used for motorcycle races in the early 30's.

#109 bill moffat

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 12:42

Originally posted by James Page


I told Dad about this thread and the Penrise bit in particular. Being based in Bristol, it wasn't a million miles away from home, and he'd competed there. What he said painted quite a nice picture of the place:

I remember it well.
There was an old orangery close to the start and it wasn't too short with a
deer park at the finish.
very nice.
I think I got a result there in the Alvis but can't remember if it was a
class win or a 3rd. They only used it a few times and I remember Nigel Pow
spinning the ex Eccles(I think) Brabham Buick (he had only just bought it)
going over the line very fast and it went round and round across the deer
park!



James...Your father scored a 3rd in Class in the Alvis with a 45.44 s climb, Francis Keogh's Riley being quickest of the historics at 44.80s.

I'm sure your dad is not the bragging sort but he can legitimately claim that his first timed run was just under a second faster than Chris Cramer's March (although he might forget to mention that CC popped in a 29.47s on his second run).

#110 James Page

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 12:58

Originally posted by bill moffat



James...Your father scored a 3rd in Class in the Alvis with a 45.44 s climb, Francis Keogh's Riley being quickest of the historics at 44.80s.

I'm sure your dad is not the bragging sort but he can legitimately claim that his first timed run was just under a second faster than Chris Cramer's March (although he might forget to mention that CC popped in a 29.47s on his second run).


:lol:

I'll let him know!

#111 bill moffat

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 13:00

Back to middle England I love this one. Ghosts of circuits past :

http://img109.images...ooklands9cg.jpg

#112 Cirrus

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 13:24

A picture of Brooklands today would look rather different. Much of the runway has gone, and there is a big new Mercedes building taking shape at the top. Funnily enough, I am sure the image of Brooklands on Google Earth was more recent a couple of months ago.

#113 BRG

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 13:52

Actually, that shot of Brooklands must be 6 or 7 years old or more.

There is no sign at all of the kart track(s) on the southern half of the runway - that was started some time ago, and, as it grew, they built an all-new track on the grassy area to the east (right) of the runway. Now its all been swept away by Mercedes, although as they are doing nothing visible to that southern area, why they couldn't have left the karters alone, I don't know.

Nor is there the least sign of the new offices along the eastern bank of the River Wey (just south of the Museum site) and these are now completed and partly occupied (Kia Cars are in one) since more than a year ago.

#114 Ruairidh

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 14:30

Originally posted by bill moffat


Your Alfa is parked up next to the Methuen Campbell's house. This was about 1/2 way up the hill and if you can picture a mirror image of "Pardon" at Prescott you will get the idea.

If you'd given the Alfa a bit of a squirt then a 34 second climb would have been quick in "your" class. If you go onto the Swansea Motor Club web site you will see a photo of Brian Jenkin's Morgan negotiating this bend, with respect he's making a better job of the apex than you !


Bill, do you have the web-address for that Swansea Motor Club web site? For some reason I cannot locate it using Google. And very funny about the apex!

#115 bill moffat

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 15:02

Try : www.swanseamotorclub.com/Infosite/history/penrice.htm

#116 Ruairidh

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 16:58

Originally posted by bill moffat
Try : www.swanseamotorclub.com/Infosite/history/penrice.htm


Thanks.

#117 St.Hubbins

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 17:07

Mark, amazing is the correct word. Thanks for sharing that file. :up:

#118 Antoine Pilette

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 17:16

Excellent, Mark! There is even Givors :up:

#119 frogeye59

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 18:43

Posted Image

Lydden Hill, Kent


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Buckmore Park Kart Circuit, Kent - A certain J Herbert started here.

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#120 guillo

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Posted 15 February 2006 - 21:52

Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez, Mexico City

This track was used for F1 in the 60's and 80's

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#121 BRG

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 10:07

Originally posted by guillo
Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez, Mexico City[/IMG]

It's in a very urban environment - I never realised that. And what are all those brown oblongs? Tennis courts or something?

#122 philippe7

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 10:35

Seems a little large for tennis courts....spectator parking lots maybe ?

#123 zakeriath

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 12:26

Originally posted by BRG
It's in a very urban environment - I never realised that. And what are all those brown oblongs? Tennis courts or something?


They are football pitches, when you zoom in using Google earth, you can see the halfway, penalty lines etc, clearly.

#124 mikedeering

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 12:32

Isn't that image a few years out of date? I thought they converted it to an oval?

#125 rwhitworth

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 12:41

The bottom part of the circuit looks truncated. It used to go further down and left to a true hairpin - there is a grey straight patch where the circuit used to be.

#126 James Page

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 12:54

Also, in the 60s layout the first corner used to be a long, quick, tightening right-hander - you can just about make it out in the top-right of the photo. Fairly sure the changes to that and the hairpin were done before F1's return in the 80s.

#127 Pedro 917

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 13:14

From the Belgian Air Force : Nivelles.
I don't know when it was taken but it's all gone now.

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#128 Terry Walker

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 13:52

Old air survey pics, and new Google Earth. Time and space machines.

Here's Sydney's Maroubra, 1930. Long gone, but the air survey photos survive. I found some from the late 40s, too, just before the derelict remnants were demolished and a suburb built over it.

I can't use Google Earth, it doesn't like my video card, but there are quite a few Australian sites I'd like to visit.

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#129 fvebr

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 14:54

Maroubra ....Is it HERE ?

And here is the still visible Nivelles

#130 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 15:30

Originally posted by guillo
Autodromo Hermanos Rodriguez, Mexico City

This track was used for F1 in the 60's and 80's


Notice the football stadium on the inside of the Peralta corner, on the left of the image. The current circuit, as used by Champcar, actually goes *through* the stadium, literally through the field. Quite a weird sight I must say. Also one of the few places where the circuit actually passes underneath a grandstand.

#131 philippe7

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 17:19

I think the champcar circuit is actually visible on this photo, Rob.....but it looks as if the grandstand is "cut" where the circuit goes through ( underneath ? ) it ....

#132 Mark A

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 19:03

Originally posted by fvebr
[B]Maroubra ....Is it HERE ?

Looks like it to me, the surrounding roads seem to match up. Added to my file. :D






Mexico City, The champcar circuit is very visible on Google Earth, the track goes through the stadium (Baseball stadium actually), it doesn't go underneath it.

Also, the hairpin mentioned earlier is still there, look beyond the grandstands under the word DigitalGlobe in the picture above, very clear on GE!

#133 Rob Semmeling

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 19:12

Looks like it Philippe. Maybe it was not an actual grandstand though:

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Posted Image

In any case, a rather weird and unique section.

#134 bill moffat

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 22:36

Philippe 7 will no doubt recognise this Welsh circuit.

This shot really gives you an idea of the overall size of the Llandow airfield with the circuit's back straight only being a relatively small section of the runway.

Fond memories for me. On those peripheral runways I first drove a road car whilst that fiddly little band of tarmac below the main circuit gave me my first karting experience..

http://img129.images...=llandow1qg.jpg

#135 johnwilliamdavies

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 22:55

Excellent Bill.
The runway in the lower left corner is still used every month by Bridgend Auto Club for auto tests. And the runway in the middle right is used occasionally by "Max Power" types for 0-60 runs.


--------------------
Welsh Motor Sport History

#136 St.Hubbins

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Posted 16 February 2006 - 23:04

Originally posted by BRG
It's in a very urban environment - I never realised that. And what are all those brown oblongs? Tennis courts or something?


Something I noticed with the Buenos Aires Oscar Galves track too. Slap in the centre of one of the worlds largest metroploi... (metropolises?)
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#137 philippe7

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 07:43

Originally posted by bill moffat
Philippe 7 will no doubt recognise this Welsh circuit.


Indeed !!! great picture, thank you .

In the 70's the "new" karting track was not built , and kart races were sometimes held on a "tyres and cones" circuit set up on the piece of runway to the right of the current track, on the other side of the tiny hedge-lined road I used to walk all the way from St Donat's...

And of course all those white rectangulars buildings of the same size are ex-RAF Hangars converted for various civilian tasks nowadays.....the atmosphere was really special at Llandow

#138 fvebr

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 08:24

Can those be identified please ? (Pointing on N/E of the tracks)

#1 (Beside flatrock speedway USA) Looks like a TEST TRACK

#2 Same area and also a TEST TRACK

#3 That OVAL

# 4 And also THAT ONE


And in Japan I'd like

# 5 This
ONE

# 6 That TEST TRACK

# 7 And that ONE

# 8 And this LAST ONE (which is notrh of Jari Track... Maybe a subdivision of it)

:blush: :blush: :blush:

Thx

#139 bill moffat

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 09:27

Originally posted by philippe7


Indeed !!! great picture, thank you .

In the 70's the "new" karting track was not built , and kart races were sometimes held on a "tyres and cones" circuit set up on the piece of runway to the right of the current track, on the other side of the tiny hedge-lined road I used to walk all the way from St Donat's...

And of course all those white rectangulars buildings of the same size are ex-RAF Hangars converted for various civilian tasks nowadays.....the atmosphere was really special at Llandow


My first impression when I downloaded the Llandow photo was ..what a missed opportunity. Join up all those runways in the top 1/2 of the photo. and you have a flowing circuit of 3 miles or so with some very interesting bends, a sort of scaled-up Goodwood.

We ended up with a bumpy 1 mile oval but, like Philippe, I loved it !

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#140 James Page

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 10:54

Llandow was the last place I drove a racing car - last October. I loved it, too - very short but quick and a lovely, clubby atmosphere. Even a hillclimb-spec FF2000 Reynard felt clumsy in that first chicane, though!

On the day we were there, someone was indeed using the runways to test what sounded like fairly seriously tuned road cars.

#141 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 11:24

Originally posted by philippe7


Indeed !!! great picture, thank you .

In the 70's the "new" karting track was not built , and kart races were sometimes held on a "tyres and cones" circuit set up on the piece of runway to the right of the current track, on the other side of the tiny hedge-lined road I used to walk all the way from St Donat's...

And of course all those white rectangulars buildings of the same size are ex-RAF Hangars converted for various civilian tasks nowadays.....the atmosphere was really special at Llandow


When it was running actual race meetings in the 60s and 70's there were no chicanes and the main straight was the full width of the runway - unlike now where the top right section of which on the image is a caravan storage area and has reduced the width by about 70%.

When I first went testing there this had just been introduced and narrowed up the exit of that long bumpy sweeper quite severely with an imposing wall of earth fronted by tyres right on the edge of the line. Quite spooky as it really did seem to draw you into it's clutches. Looks like it's now fronted by a bit of grass verge?

The re-working of the layout and resurfacing in the early 90's, featured a tight chicane halfway down the main straight at the end of the bit used by the caravans (you can just see the clean bit of tarmac vanishing under the dust) then went through what now looks like a bit of pit/paddock before exiting into that ultra tight chicane with a fiddly bit added to the first original corner and another fiddly bit added as you came out onto the back straight (are they still there? it's a few years since I have been there).

I remember testing an 1100cc hillclimb single steater there in 96 which was not much bigger than a kart and very nimble but in places it felt way too tight ever for that. Prescott seemed like a motorway by comparison..

I think the idea of the revised layout was OK in theory but the guy with the paper and pencils did what many of us would probabaly do and underestimated how much space is required to make a reasonable radius corner thats not completely stop-start in nature. But a fun place to drive all the same.


Simon Lewis
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#142 James Page

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 12:12

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks


The re-working of the layout and resurfacing in the early 90's, featured a tight chicane halfway down the main straight at the end of the bit used by the caravans (you can just see the clean bit of tarmac vanishing under the dust) then went through what now looks like a bit of pit/paddock before exiting into that ultra tight chicane with a fiddly bit added to the first original corner and another fiddly bit added as you came out onto the back straight (are they still there? it's a few years since I have been there).


That explains why Dad was convinced that the pit/paddock area used to be part of the circuit! The ultra-tight first chicane is still used, but a quick right-hander leads on to the back straight - the other chicane is a fast, narrow affair at the end of that.

#143 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 12:24

Originally posted by bill moffat


My first impression when I downloaded the Llandow photo was ..what a missed opportunity. Join up all those runways in the top 1/2 of the photo. and you have a flowing circuit of 3 miles or so with some very interesting bends, a sort of scaled-up Goodwood.


Except there are several public roads criss-crossing the site. They would have ruled out such a layout sadly - the laws of the land being what they are on such things (boo!). That goes someway to explain why they only used one small bit.

Although the section to it's right, which is the other side of one such road, looks like it would have made a longer and more technical layout - although as it skirts the hangers and 'technical area' of the airfield maybe there was still a military presence on the site when it was first mooted and that ruled it out?

Simon Lewis

#144 bill moffat

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 12:43

I have dim memories of one or two redundant aircraft still sitting around when I first visited the circuit.

Llandow was, of course, the site of what was then the world's worst civilian aircraft disaster in 1950. Last Tuesday was the 56th anniversary of the disaster in which 80 passengers lost their lives when an Avro Tudor V came down just short of the runway.

#145 ggnagy

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 13:00

Originally posted by fvebr
[B]Can those be identified please ? (Pointing on N/E of the tracks)

#1 (Beside flatrock speedway USA) Looks like a TEST TRACK

#2 Same area and also a TEST TRACK

#3 That OVAL

# 4 And also THAT ONE


#3 looks to point towards a hilltop. Resolution is better over on terraserver-usa If that is a track, it is a private one.

HOWEVER....

Zoom out and there is a ghost track just ENE of your marker.



#4 Callaway Raceway

#146 philippe7

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 13:56

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks

When it was running actual race meetings in the 60s and 70's there were no chicanes and the main straight was the full width of the runway - unlike now where the top right section of which on the image is a caravan storage area and has reduced the width by about 70%.


When we discussed Landow a while back in a thread called "a circuit to remember" , FrankB posted a link to a multimap image ( I hope I got this right....)
http://www.multimap....up.x=291&up.y=7
.......which is interesting since it shows Llandow "pre-resurfacing" ......indeed the two main straights are fairly wide , and Llandow was a rather fast affair then....no silly chicanes . This multimap picture was taken later than the years I spectated there ( 72-74) since the new kart track appears ( didn't exist then ) , and apparently the "narrowing" episode due to the extension of the caravan park, as told by Simon, is apparent . I don't either remember a caravan storage back then......
They didn't do any actual "races" after the narrowing-resurfacing did they ? Only sprint events I guess ?

#147 philippe7

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 14:02

Originally posted by James Page
That explains why Dad was convinced that the pit/paddock area used to be part of the circuit!


Exactly.....and the paddock was where the track kart now is .

#148 Mark A

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 16:21

Originally posted by fvebr

And in Japan I'd like

# 5 This
ONE

# 6 That TEST TRACK

# 7 And that ONE

# 8 And this LAST ONE (which is notrh of Jari Track... Maybe a subdivision of it)

:blush: :blush: :blush:

Thx [/B]


5 & 6 are in Toyota City so guess who owns those ;)

7 is the JARI facility

8 I don't know.

#149 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 16:30

Originally posted by philippe7


When we discussed Landow a while back in a thread called "a circuit to remember" , FrankB posted a link to a multimap image ( I hope I got this right....)
http://www.multimap....up.x=291&up.y=7
.......which is interesting since it shows Llandow "pre-resurfacing" ......indeed the two main straights are fairly wide , and Llandow was a rather fast affair then....no silly chicanes . This multimap picture was taken later than the years I spectated there ( 72-74) since the new kart track appears ( didn't exist then ) , and apparently the "narrowing" episode due to the extension of the caravan park, as told by Simon, is apparent . I don't either remember a caravan storage back then......
They didn't do any actual "races" after the narrowing-resurfacing did they ? Only sprint events I guess ?


Thats the circuit as I recall it in the mid 1990's with the main straight partly narrowed for the caravans (white dots) and that's the chicane halfway along .
The original main straight really was very wide and you can see the line of it quite clearly where the caravans are parked.

I think it just runs sprints and track days now, the only racing as you would genuinely know it was for autograss and Hot Rod cars in the 80s and 90s long after the RAC MSA sanctioned stuff had ceased. Pembrey ran similar "unlicenced" events on a small tri-oval using the Hairpin and pit exit area at around this time as well.

Simon Lewis

#150 bill moffat

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Posted 17 February 2006 - 16:51

I'd go along with that. The main straight was so incredibly wide, and seriously bumpy. I remember Ron Fry's GT40 spinning in a straightline (OK it was very wet) as he negotiated it.

The "proper" paddock was indeed in the Rt top corner of the multimap image. Facilities were very basic but did include a bar which was decorated with various accident-damaged body panels.

In the early days the paddock was situated on the outside of the next corner which was unofficially dubbed Paddock Bend. Race control was on the infield shortly after this bend, this was always a bit dodgy as cars that lost it on the outside of Paddock would often find themselves careering towards you with just a few scattered railway sleepers for protection.

A simple circuit but I recall many an FF battle (in particular) there that would leave you breathless..