26 replies to this topic

[Ben-Cas]

Good evening every body,

I would like to pose you a question:

Do you have an idea where could be the 1981 RENAULT RE 30 TURBO ( I precise if it is not clear: not the RE 30B 1982 or RE 30C 1983 but the RE 30 1981) and the 1976 (not 1977) TYRRELL P34 SIX WHEELER? I would like to know it because these are my prefers formula 1 cars.

Thank you very much
Sinceraly
Benoit ;)

[Antoine Pilette]

http://ma26.free.fr/...resentation.htm

Musee de l'Automobile a Mougins(06)

[Ben-Cas]

Merci Antoine mais je connais et je peux te dire qu'il n'y a ni RENAULT RE 30 de 1981 ni TYRRELL P34 de 1976 mais la RENAULT RE 30C/10 de PROST, voiture de réserve du GP du BRESIL 1983, PROST ayant couru sur la RE 30C/11 qui est au Musée Fangio en Argentine; et pas non plus de TYRRELL P34 de 1976 mais la TYRRELL P34/5 de Ronnie PETERSON du GP du CANADA 1977.

[Antoine Pilette]

Ok, j'avais juste un vague souvenir de ces voitures a Mougins:)

Traduction:
Nevermind, I screw-up again:D

[ralt12]

From what we've accumulated in the Tyrrell Registry--and these could be dead wrong, but we've been trying to track down Tyrrells--

P34/1-Sinsheim Auto Museum, Germany
P34/2-Tamiya Museum, Japan
P34/3-?
P34/4-?
P34/5-Mauro Pane
P34/6-Simon Bull
P34/7-RM Motorsports, USA

[Rainer Nyberg]

Originally posted by Ben-Cas
...and the 1976 (not 1977) TYRRELL P34 SIX WHEELER?

At least P34/1, the car in the Sinsheim Auto & Technik Museum, remains in 1976 bodywork.

One car is in the Donington Collection (with 1977 bodywork).

[Gary C]

I heard that Donington bought their P34 from Tamiya in Japan. Also, collector Bud Bennett in the U.S. was planning on building up a new car around an unused P34 tub, but haven't heard anything about it in about 4 years bnow. That info was from Simon Bull.

[ralt12]

Bud Bennett is the P34/7 chassis owner "RM Motorsports".

[Gary C]

so, was chassis 7 a 'real' car or has it been built up in the last few years??

[ralt12]

Well, that's a story best told by Bud, but it was apparently used extensively while fitted with a certain Renault turbo. So, unless I'm wrong, no real races, but lots of miles.

[dolomite]

You're saying a P34 was tested with a Renault engine?

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by dolomite
You're saying a P34 was tested with a Renault engine?

Yeah I never heard that beofre, spill the beans please.

[Rainer Nyberg]

Originally posted by ralt12
So, unless I'm wrong, no real races, but lots of miles.

Seems like P34/7 was rather well used during 1977.

Patrick Depailler drove it on 13 occasions.

[Gary C]

perhaps, in the end, Bud didn't build up a car but got ahold of chassis 7 instead??

[David M. Kane]

I'm surprised someone from HGP hasn't bought a P34. It certainly wouls spice up the show.

[Gary C]

I think we have TWO in the series over here, Dave. Mauro Payne is more or less a regular, with Simon Bull's car dipping in and out.

[Ben-Cas]

Hello dear friends


I have just discovered that Phil Hill is the last pilot that has driven the RENAULT RE 30 from the 1981 season in April 1982 to try the car for the Road & Track's magazine. Derek Bell has tried the same car in March 1982 for the Cars' magazine. But I don't have any idea where could be this car now. Could you help me please?



I have seen that everybody here have not understand the goal of this post. So I would like to explain you:

Well, I have created this post to ask you where are my two favorites formula 1 car :



The TYRRELL FORD P34 from the 1976 season but not the prototype.

The RENAULT RE 30 from the 1981 season



Concerning the P34, there were a particular decoration during the 1976 season with yellow stripes because Ken TYRRELL had accepted to build a RENAULT TURBO engine on the P34 but he finished to refuse. Precisely, I search the TYRRELL P34 from the 1976 season that had this configuration with the decorations of the 1976 season





Thank you very much ;)

Sinceraly

Benoît

[Henk Vasmel]

Hello, Benoît

Re: Tyrrell
Chassis 1 was the prototype, never raced, and the only serious candidate to be Renault engined during testing. As far as I know, this was before the cars started to race, and Ken didn't believe that the Turbos would be a success. In the end, they were not during the days of the P34.
If I remember correctly, only chassis 1 was a P34 and all others were P34/2. Chassis 1, the prototype is most easily identified by the flat "sidepods", while the '76 cars had a definite hump.
Chassis 5, 6 and 7 were 1977 cars, which leaves only 2,3 and 4 as possible survivors as real 1976 style cars.
Chassis 2, 3 and 4 were used during the early races of 1977 as well, and as far as I can find now, at least some of them were in 1977 bodywork, and all 3 of course had a 1977 paint scheme.
In later races sometimes Tyrrell reverted to 1976 style bodywork, but of course with a 1977 paint scheme.
By the way chassis 3 was crashed in Austria 1976 and replaced by chassis 3-2, a common practice in those days (please don't mention March)
As far as I know, it was easy to convert a car from a 1976 to 1977 bodywork, so probably the reverse would be possible too.
The nett result of all this is that no original 1976 cars can exist, and if a car is in this paint scheme, it must be a later re-creation.

Re: Renault
The original RE30's from 1981 were chassis 30, 31, 32, 33, 34 and 35 (6 in all).
RE30 was destroyed in Dijon testing, on June, 11 1981. It was reconstructed as a RE30B type car.
RE30B-B5 was ex RE32; RE30B-B4 was ex RE34; RE30B-B9 was ex RE33; This would leave only RE31 and RE35 as possible survivors of the 1981 cars.
According to the book Renault F1, Les Années Turbo, by Bernard Dudot, Jean Sage and Jean-Louis Moncet, RE31 was a windtunnel car and has never raced, yet it is mentionned in my database as the René Arnoux car for Belgium and Monaco. It would have been rebuilt into another unused car, RE30B-B1 and has eventally been broken up, some parts going to sculptor Jean Tinguelly for his sculpture "Pit-Stop".
RE35 would be the René Arnoux car for Las Vegas only, yet the book does not mention it, so it's existence is not even sure.
This leaves a possible grand total of zero survivors.

[Ben-Cas]

Thank you very much!

Excuse me but you have comited two mistakes:

Firstly, the RE 31 has been a real car because ARNOUX was second with it at the 1981 AUSTRIAN GP but you are right concerning the transformation into RE 30B/1

Secondly, the RE 35 is not mentionned in RENAULT F1 LES ANNEES TURBO but there is an other RE 30 that is mentionned: the RE 30/33 ex-RE 30 that ARNOUX drove during the 1981 Las Vegas GP after his accident with the RE 33 during the 1981 CANADIAN GP.

But do you believe that a person could have been rebuid a 1981 RE 30? Could it be possible?

Thank you very much again Henk!

Sinceraly
Benoit

[Henk Vasmel]

Hi Benoît,

Not so much mistakes, but more copying of conflicting information.
In my database, in Austria René Arnoux has chassis 33, but in the column alternative information, I have 31 or 32 (ex-spare car). I did not say that it wasn't a real car, just that the book had it as a windtunnel car (maquette de soufflerie) (full scale windtunnel in 1981?, yes, the book contains some pictures) that has never been raced. I did not believe that when I saw it, because in my opinion it has been used in Belgium and Monaco. In Monaco, René raced the spare car, RE26B, or possibly RE27B. In Belgium, well we all know what happened: The René Arnoux Taxi Service, after his NQ. So never raced (jamais couru) possibly means that it has been used in practice, but never took the start of a Grand Prix. In that case RE33 for Austria is probably correct.

You are right about the RE30/33. This was a rebuild of RE30, so one could discuss whether it was a seperate car. It probably took the identity of RE33, because the real RE33 was crashed in Canada, and this chassis was used as a replacement, but got the identity of RE33 for paperwork reasons, for the Las Vegas GP only. Only after that, it was modified into a RE30B car, RE30B-B0. In my database, B0 is not mentionned, so it has only been used in testing.

It appears, now that I look at it again, that some of the Renault records have been mislead, because the info in the book is very vague in places, and it is difficult to find positive confirmation.

Be aware that from 1970 to 1985 (roughly) a lot of lists with chassis numbers have been published that have no relation to the truth. I remember collecting as many lists as I could during those days and comparing them to the point of believing mostly my own interpretation. The numbers discarded have been stored in my database (started much later) in the column Alt-chassis. You tend to get a feel for the lists that are more reliable than others. Autocourse was a favourite, until one year they lost their data. By that time the wide variations were a thing of the past, mostly.
This all means that I am not easily impressed when someone doesn't agree with my chassis numbers in that period. Only when a reliable source is given, I might reconsider. Books like this Renault book usually overrule other info anyway.

If there is one thing I love most of playing amateur historian of motor racing, it is this puzzling to get to the bottom of what happened to which car when. I love this, let's try to find out exactly what happened then.

Regards,

Henk Vasmel

[Ben-Cas]

Good evening Henk

Thank you very much for all these interesting infos!

But I continue to search a 1981 RE 30 today. Do you believe that it could be possible to find it by a collector or others?

Thanks again!;)

Sinceraly
Benoît

[Henk Vasmel]

Hi Benoît,

I think the chances are very slim. If you ever find a car, it is probably a recreation. And it is known that these recreations are usually not 100% correct. So you will find details that are different from pictures in your collection. Like recreated stickers in the wrong size or character shape. Or technical details that obviously belong to later cars. If you are as much a perfectionist as I am, these details can be quite depressing. I usually take a look, remember the picture, and then some rather less nice words come up like "why the **** couldn't they see that it just doesn't look like it's supposed to look".
No, I think the Renault is hopeless. The Tyrrell is at least a very special car, with one GP victory in the shape you like (me too), so a decent recreation is not totally out of the question. I suppose that you know about the Tamiya 1:12 model of that one. If not, it definitely is worth trying to find it. The thesis I did for my engineering studies, was the kinematics of front wheel suspension systems, with a (then exotic) computer program. I remember trying to get it to work for the double front axle of the Tyrrell, but whatever I tried, it remained unstable. While typing this, I suddenly realise that I should have tried to make the link between the front wheels three dimensional, to prevent it from "snap-through". Ah, those were the days.

Regards,

Henk Vasmel

[Ben-Cas]

Hi Henk

However the 1981 RE 30 was the car that gave to Alain PROST his first victory in Dijon Sunday, July, 5th 1981! So it is a legendary car like the great 1976 TYRRELL P34! Isn't it?

Do you have some photos about the 1981 RE 30?

See you later

Sinceraly
Benoît

[Henk Vasmel]

Hi Benoît,

I don't have any personal photos from that period, having only recently started to make photos seriously, and not at all yet at race meetings, mostly shows and musea. However I was an avid collector of magazines in those days. There must be lots of Renault pictures there, but it is quite a lot of work to scan them in, so if there is anything specific you need, please ask. However to scan them all or even make a selection myself takes more time than I have available, so that is unfortunately not possible.

Regards,

Henk Vasmel

[Ben-Cas]

Hi Henk

I have a request concerning the photos:

I search photos of the 1981 RENAULT RE 30 in action and in the paddock during these specifics grand prix:

FRENCH GP 1981

BRITISH GP 1981

GERMAN GP 1981

AUSTRIAN GP 1981

DUTCH GP 1981

ITALIAN GP 1981

[Henk Vasmel]

I'll try to find some. It involves getting up into the attic and identifying the right boxes, so it may take some time, but I'l try.

Henk

[Ben-Cas]

Thank you very much Henk!