77 replies to this topic

[Ray Bell]

Going back to the hare at the British GP... BRM 'bad luck' etc...

The story, as I recall it, was that the car had been either leading or going very well and then pitted with a strange handling problem to be diagnosed. The car wasn't jacked up at that time, just inspected where it stood, and as tyres those days carried a fair bit of pressure, the loss of some of it failed to attract notice.

The bone, however, was hidden from view because it was at the bottom of the tyre.

Another few laps, more lost time, another pit stop and it was discovered. But the race was already lost. No matter how quickly a tyre could be changed, too much time had been frittered away prior to the real cause of the problem being found.

[Ursus]

Originally posted by Wolf
Thanks for the try, Bigears, but I don't believe I've watched that race (last year was the first time since I can remember that I missed three races on a trot- usualy I miss only one or two during entire season)... Anyways, I think it must've been earlier.

IIRC in Monaco a few years ago he came in with a broken rear suspension pushrod. Thinking the race was over for him he started to climb out of the car but Todt told him to get back in as it the car was repairable and most of the field was already out so there was an off chance of a point scoring position still.

[HDonaldCapps]

"When can a racing driver just give up?"

When he damn well feels like it.

[WHITE]

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
"When can a racing driver just give up?"

When he damn well feels like it.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Ursus
IIRC in Monaco a few years ago he came in with a broken rear suspension pushrod. Thinking the race was over for him he started to climb out of the car but Todt told him to get back in as it the car was repairable and most of the field was already out so there was an off chance of a point scoring position still.

Or he could knock a couple of them off the track at the very least!

[deangelis86]

Originally posted by John B
I vaguely remember Colin Chapman being furious at Elio De Angelis at one event, a wild guess is Silverstone in 1981 (or 83? - it was mentioned in Autocourse). He apparently didn't want to continue on because of handling or some other problem, while at the same time Mansell was driving hard.

Jarier walked away from Osella in the middle of the 1982 Italian GP weekend after one too many suspension failures....

San Marino GP, 1983:

'The Lotus 93T was handling like a truck, and De Angelis, disillusioned because he wasn't winning, pulled into the pits to retire'.

Complaints about handling and tyres were not well received by the hard working Lotus mechanics...'

To be fair to Elio, the Pirelli tyres were awful during 1983 and calling the Lotus 93t a truck was a masterpiece of understatement. That car was just abysmal.

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
"When can a racing driver just give up?"

When he damn well feels like it.

I have pulled out of races because I thought it was pointless to go on due to mechanical problems. I have finished a race with a stuck throttle by driving it on the ignition switch. I have parked at the finish line for 6 laps waiting for the chequered flag to come out (all finishers got prizemoney ;) )
I have pulled out of a race because I didn't feel safe. It all depends on the day.

The bloke behind the wheel can do what he wants. If he wants to go home let him.

[Henri Greuter]

Watkins Glen 1974:

Reggazoni started the race with a chance to become world champion.
Lauda was supposed to be of help for his teammate as much as possible. But the reace fell apart for Ferrari. both drivers making no impression on the other title candidate: Fittipaldi.
Then: Austrian driver Helmut Koïnigg, driving a Surtees, crashed fatally.

Niki Lauda, aware of the fact that he had no cahnce to finish in the point any longer, let alone be of any help to Regga , and realizing his fellow countryman had crashed to his death came into the pitts and told Montezemolo: "Luca, it doesn't make any sense for me to continue any longer anymore by now under these circumstances."
Luca understood and didn't make any point of it against Lauda, neither did Enzo Ferrari.


Henri

[Penword]

Going back to the hare at the British GP... BRM 'bad luck' etc...

The story, as I recall it, was that the car had been either leading or going very well and then pitted with a strange handling problem to be diagnosed. The car wasn't jacked up at that time, just inspected where it stood, and as tyres those days carried a fair bit of pressure, the loss of some of it failed to attract notice.

The bone, however, was hidden from view because it was at the bottom of the tyre.

Another few laps, more lost time, another pit stop and it was discovered. But the race was already lost. No matter how quickly a tyre could be changed, too much time had been frittered away prior to the real cause of the problem being found.

From Gregor Grant's review of the 1958 Formula 1 season in Autosport Jan. 2, 1959 issue:

"Behra's B.R.M. went out for the curious reason that parts of a hare became embedded in a tyre. The resultant slow puncture convinced the Frenchman that he had steering trouble."

For what it's worth.

[Norman Jones]

I am suprised no one has mentioned Johny Servo Gazin. Isn't the story that he gave up at Monaco, deciding he just did not want to do it any more, and even threw his trophies in the harbour?
A great talent or did he not have it any way and decide it was time to go? any thoughts on him?

[kayemod]

Originally posted by Norman Jones
I am suprised no one has mentioned Johny Servo Gazin. Isn't the story that he gave up at Monaco, deciding he just did not want to do it any more, and even threw his trophies in the harbour?
A great talent or did he not have it any way and decide it was time to go? any thoughts on him?

The name was Johnny Servoz Gavin. I have a dim recollection that the Monaco incident was caused bu understandable frustration with an eyesight problem, I think he was losing the sight in one eye, that he knew was going to mean an early end to his driving career. JSG was a bit of a mystery, fast one week and nowhere the next, but it could all have been down to that eye problem of course. He was one of the (several) drivers rumoured to be the man behind the wheel in 'C'etait un Rendezvous', but since I'm one of many who is unconvinced by much of the hype and legend about that film, they wouldn't have needed a driver with his talents anyway.

[Garagiste]

Regarding Hill's "one too many" season in 99 - the race I really recall him parking it was France.
From memory:

MW: And Hill retires from the race, and perhaps from Formula One!
MB: Have a word with him Murray, He's got to come to Silverstone.

:

[kayemod]

And I've just remembered something else about Johnny Servoz Gavin, that Johnny wasn't his real name, he was really something like Jean-Francois Servoz Gavin. Also, and this ties in with the Big Budget Flops thread, I'm pretty certain that JSV is the only man ever to have scored a championship point in an FWD F1 car, he brought a 4WD works Matra DFV in sixth place in the 1969 Canadian GP, so he was certainly fast at times.

[Tim Murray]

Georges-Francois, wasn't it?

He was definitely a coming-man until he sustained the eye problem, caused IIRC by hitting a tree while skiing.

[ghinzani]

Originally posted by Tim Murray
Georges-Francois, wasn't it?

He was definitely a coming-man until he sustained the eye problem, caused IIRC by hitting a tree while skiing.

Roebuck described it as a small french rally for fun, I think in a jeep, where he got a branch in the eye.

[Tim Murray]

Ah yes, that sounds more like it. I knew a tree was involved somehow.

[Geza Sury]

Nelson Piquet, 1991 Hungarian GP. From the 1991 Formula 1 Yearbook:

The relatively low average speeds brough about an unusually small number of retirements, through a notable among these was Piquet's Benetton, which dropped out on lap 39. He had got away to a poor start, and it was starting to jump out of 3rd gear. More than anything, the Brazilian had had a bellyful: "There were 45 laps left*, I had no chance of moving up, so what was the point of carrying on? This was really boring race for me."

*Actually only 38

I think Piquet with this attitude should have retired from Grand Prix racing on the spot.

[Ross Stonefeld]

Retiring at half distance

[Graham Clayton]

And in Champ Car racing there was an interesting story on Henry Banks retirement. Not in a race, but on a race weekend - Milwaukee in 1952, IIRC. He practiced and qualified, went back to the hotel and the next morning told his wife he didn't want to drive anymore. He was threatened with suspension and the officials and promoter told him he at least had to start and drive, to which he replied "I don't have to drive six feet."
In explaining his retirement, paraphrasing, he said something like "Last night I went to bed a race driver, today when I woke up, I wasn't.'

Hi Jim,
I have a similar incident that occurred at the famous Sydney Showground speedway during the 1971-72 season.
At the end of a speedcar feature race during that season, veteran driver Kevin Park pulled into the pits and told his pit crew that he had just had his final race.

[Graham Clayton]

Rodger Ward at the 1966 Indianapolis, when he pulled into the pits after 74 laps. At the Victory Banquet the following evening he said:

 

I said when racing wasn't fun anymore I would quit. Well it wasn't any fun out there yesterday.

Edited by Graham Clayton, 19 December 2013 - 00:16.

[Lee Nicolle]

I think many of us have came to that conclusion at times. I did October 2000 though have since came back doing hillclimbs and Sprints. Though with the bulls**t still there sometimes wonder why. I enjoy it in the car, often not out of it.
Though did do classic speedway until about 2010. A combination of politics and pain was the finish to that. I was going to do an event this season but again politics meant there was not enough people interested for the event to go ahead.

[Jim Thurman]

Rodger Ward at the 1966 Indianapolis, when he pulled into the pits after 74 laps. At the Victory Banquet the following evening he said:

 

Yet, Rodger Ward returned to racing several years later, racing stock cars around California, including Riverside and a few NASCAR Western series races for a couple of years.

 

Much like Sam Hanks, reports of Ward's "retirement" were greatly exaggerated

[Emery0323]

In NASCAR there was the famous "park out" at Martinsville. Independent (non-factory/works) drivers complained about purse distribution below 10th place - there was something like 40-50$ difference spread over the remainder of the field. In ones and twos and threes, they pulled off the track and retired early in the race, leaving about 10 cars circulating for the majority of the race.

On the opposite side of the coin, there  is the well-known phenomenon of "start and park" occasionally seen in NASCAR racing nowadays.   The prize money even for poor finishes has become good enough that some low-budget teams at the margins will exert just enough effort to qualify a car near the back of the grid, then pull in and retire early in the race in order to collect the minimum payout.   In modern NASCAR, there is still the need to fill 40+ car fields, and the prize money even for last-place finishers is good enough that this strategy can be financially self-sustaining.  These entries do no tire changes or pitstops (sometimes no pit crew is employed) and the equipment is not greatly stressed during these short stints on the track, so that even the minimum payouts are sufficient to cover expenses.

 

This practice has gotten unflattering attention and is coming under greater scrutiny by NASCAR:

 

http://www.caranddri...e-quitting-game

 

http://www.sportingn...-baldwin-racing

 

http://www.thenascar...arks-dwindling/

 

This strategy has also been used in some instances for top-level teams near the end of season, when a championship is in the balance.  A team with  a driver in a strong position and needing only a relatively mediocre (but higher than last-place) finish will qualify a spare car that "starts and parks" in order to help ensure that the last-place position doesn't go to their championship contender.

Edited by Emery0323, 22 December 2013 - 11:55.

[Eric Dunsdon]

I wouldnt normally hear, let alone say, a word against my hero 'Jeanott' but he and his BRM well off the pace in that 1958 British Grand Prix, and we were quite puzzled at the time, as he had led and set fastest lap in the International Trophy Race earlier in the year. As Mr Nye has pointed out though, Jean wasnt quite the same man after being beaten by Harry at Zandvoort as was obvious from the Belgian GP onwards although he did produce something of a blinder at Rheims.

[D-Type]

Wasn't the 1958 GP the race where he hit a hare?

[elansprint72]

When can a professional (!) racing driver walk away from his job during a race and has this happened..........

When they have enough money in the bank.    Yes.

[Bob Riebe]

Another form of giving up is stroking along because one does not think it is worth the effort to push for non winning position.

 

At the 1978 Donnybrooke Trans-Am, Monte Shelton and Greg Pickett crashed out on the second to last lap. Jerry Hansen won the race in a Monza, Tuck Thomas was second and not terribly far back..

 

When they asked Tuck Thomas about finishing second, he drove a Monza at least as fast as Hansen's, his reply was "If I knew the leaders were going to crash, I would have driven faster!"

 

Tuck has passed and another of the gents who made racing in the seventies so interesting is gone.

Edited by Bob Riebe, 23 December 2013 - 22:34.

[chr1s]

Another example of stroking is Emerson Fittipaldi at the 1977 British Grand Prix, from Jo Ramirez.

 

"When Emerson was lapped by the leaders (Hunt and Lauda) he tucked in behind them and his lap times suddenly decreased by two seconds a lap! I could'nt belive what I was seeing.  After the race I showed him his lap times, and said to him, "how come you're able to do that?" His reply was: "I was only trying to see if I could keep up with them."  "Right," I said, "so why did'nt you try from the beginning of the race"!