455 replies to this topic

[De Weberis]

It amazes me the inability of Mark Webber to overtake in F1.

I would like to mention some situations that supports my statement.

1> Aussie 05.
In a superior car.
Webber got overtaken by DC and tried to pay back and fails, almost crashing.

2> Sepang 05.
On better tires.
Webber crashes Ralf and Fisi, almost get seriously hurt.

3> Bahrain 05.
On better car and tires.
Webber tries to overtake Rubens and niente.

4> Monaco 05.
On better tires.
Webber spends several laps behind Alonso on bad tires, then Nick goes by Fred smoothly and Webber follows the example, but w/o class.

5> Turkey 05.
On a better car.
Webber fighting for the 10th? place crashes MS and makes him to abandon the race.

6> Bahrain 06.
On better engine.
Tries to overtake an ill powered Fisi and looses a lot of time behind.
Finally overtakes him tankfully to a off track excursion of Fisi.

7> Sepang 06.
On better engine and lighter fuel loads.
Driving the most powerfull engine of the grid and on lighter fuel load tries to overtake Fred along several laps.
MW pitted after 14 laps and FA after 26 laps (2,7 kg x 12 laps = 32,4 kg).
MW was at least 0,5 sec faster than Fred.

Maybe MW sandbagged due to his bad memories on this same Sepang trying to overtake a Renault. If he had troubles overtaking Fisi, the buona gente, imagine the problems to overtake El Matador.
Or maybe MW was waiting for Nick to come by and show him the way... after all, Sepang is a tricky circuit to overtake ( the circuit is narrow and there aren't long straights, enough).

Is it me, or what?

[GregAU]

Yes it's you.

Edit: I wont bother tearing all that garbage apart since I havent got all day and time (bias) has obviosly clouded your memory so I'll just concentrate on the recent.

If you had have listened you would have realised Webber pitted on lap 14 to try and rectify the leaking hydraulics...which caused him to retire a few laps later.

[skinnylizard]

if you calculate the number of incidents he was in last year and how easy it was for Heidfeld at times to perform without the need for fireworks youll see that Webber has taken a whole new approach.

he isnt trying to 'look' quick, just keep his **** together & out of trouble. Get some points instead of nothing when trying to get one more.

i reckon once he has some in the kitty he will be back to his old self again.

[kNt]

I thought that too, maybe not as much as you, but it doesn't seem overtaking is one of his talents.

Does anybody remember any good overtaking moves by him?

[De Weberis]

Forgot to mention,

Reply over the facts mentioned or cite successful MW's overtaking manouvres.

Thanks.

[GooGZ]

great troll thread here...

[Valentinik]

yeah, and Rosberg taught Webber how it is done in Bahrain.

Webber is a classic example of how to look great in a perceived mediocre car such as Jaguar.

But when he is in Williams, he aint that special at all. First Nick proved it , then Rosberg now.

[baddog]

He is not great at setting up a pass, it has to be said.

Shaun

[Ross Stonefeld]

He cant overtake, but when he does its without class? Where's your class?

[DaleCooper]

Now you've done it! Probably in Australia he will overtake half the field and win his first race.
That's how it usually goes around here. Then we will have to contend with the 'Mark is the best, Schumy should retire' gang.


In all seriousness, I also feel that Webber is a poor overtaker. Much better qualifier though.


Cooper

[Riker!]

Im a Webber fan and to tell ya the truth.........its starting to look it.

[Valentinik]

the best overtaking move pulled by Webber that I can remember is Sepang 2005, Webber on Fisi,

its just a pity that Fisi lost control of the car taking out Webber in the process. He got a good line in there, and beautifully executed, but he might be abit slow to react to Fisi losing grip though.

[Witt]

That pass on Manning in the F3000 race back in 2000 was something special - and for the win too.

but that aside, he does seem to lack the necessary confidence needed to make a pass that comes so easy to some drivers. There is plenty of drivers out there who struggle in that department, including yesterday's winner IMO (but i guess that's for another troll topic...)

oh and Webber did pass Coulthard in Australia 05 - right in front of my seat. Too bad the camera's missed it because it was the cleanest pass i've ever seen him do!

[HoldenRT]

I agree overtaking is a weakness for MW. But your "facts" are highly questionable, almost laughable.

If you were talking about Kimi or Michael like this you would have 30 people throwing cabbages at you.

If you haven't seen any of the races since you first saw them it wasn't a bad effort though. We remember things how we want to remember them.;)

But if you got the races on tape I suggest you watch them again.

Then again maybe there is no point because you have made your position on MW quite clear in the last 12 months, and there is no point trying to change your opinion is there?

[Menace]

What is it with the recent resurgence of trolls on this BB? Is it because of the Atlasf1-->AA-->Autosport thingy or did some other F1 sites Forum go down recently???

[GooGZ]

Originally posted by Menace
What is it with the recent resurgence of trolls on this BB? Is it because of the Atlasf1-->AA-->Autosport thingy or did some other F1 sites Forum go down recently???

yup. its quite sad eh...

[capture_the_flag]

Originally posted by GooGZ
great troll thread here...

Indeed.

[Pumpkin]

De Weberis Mark has phoned me and told me to tell you 'sorry for pissing on your cornflakes as a youngster'

[MrSlow]

Originally posted by Menace
What is it with the recent resurgence of trolls on this BB? Is it because of the Atlasf1-->AA-->Autosport thingy or did some other F1 sites Forum go down recently???

Was thinking the same. There should be a single thread named "Trolling" or something where all these threads could be merged.

It seems like the F1 teams, FIA and Bernie is indeed monitoring this board and the quality could improve immensley if they felt, like Renault, that they can actually take part of the discussions.

[kismet]

Hey, I'm offended - I'm only here because another F1 site's loser forum went belly up.

[F1Fanatic.co.uk]

Originally posted by MrSlow
Was thinking the same. There should be a single thread named "Trolling" or something where all these threads could be merged.

Hear, hear.

[baddog]

Oh come come.. show some backbone, threads dont have to ALL be positive, and at least in this one he tried to put a justification together.

Or is it "Wouldnt it be nice if everyone was nice" around here?

[woftam]

Originally posted by Pumpkin
De Weberis Mark has phoned me and told me to tell you 'sorry for pissing on your cornflakes as a youngster'

Maybe he is Pizzonia in disguise?

[baddog]

Originally posted by woftam


Maybe he is Pizzonia in disguise?

He pizzonia cornflakes?

[woftam]

Originally posted by baddog
Oh come come.. show some backbone, threads dont have to ALL be positive, and at least in this one he tried to put a justification together.

Or is it "Wouldnt it be nice if everyone was nice" around here?

Oh really check his history of posts
He has an anti Webber fetish. Personally don't bother me what he thinks.

[woftam]

Originally posted by baddog


He pizzonia cornflakes?

Bahahahaha nice

[MrSlow]

Originally posted by baddog
Oh come come.. show some backbone, threads dont have to ALL be positive, and at least in this one he tried to put a justification together.

Or is it "Wouldnt it be nice if everyone was nice" around here?

Sure, but there is limits

I am not thinking about thsi thread in particular, but there has been so many threads that is created only to ventilate pointless random dislike against drivers and teams that the more serious discussions and topics are drowned. The anti-MS threads have now all been merged and that is good, but I think in many cases the "new thread" button is used instead of a "Shout Box", they are not even intented to lead to a discussion.

[baddog]

Originally posted by MrSlow

Sure, but there is limits

I am not thinking about thsi thread in particular, but there has been so many threads that is created only to ventilate pointeless random dislike against drivers and teams that the more serious discussions and topics are drowned. The anti-MS threads have now all been merged and that is good, but I think in many cases the "new thrad" button is used instead of a "Shout Box", they are not even intented to lead to a discussion.

Its true that an endless run of similiar threads banging on about the same subject is infernally annoying. I dont think anyone ever raised this one before though.

Shaun

[armchair expert]

Originally posted by De Weberis
1> Aussie 05.
In a superior car.
Webber got overtaken by DC and tried to pay back and fails, almost crashing.
Webber got him back once, but had to pit.

2> Sepang 05.
On better tires.
Webber crashes Ralf and Fisi, almost get seriously hurt.
Fisi's fault.
3> Bahrain 05.
On better car and tires.
Webber tries to overtake Rubens and niente.
Huh?

4> Monaco 05.
On better tires.
Webber spends several laps behind Alonso on bad tires, then Nick goes by Fred smoothly and Webber follows the example, but w/o class.
Yep.
5> Turkey 05.
On a better car.
Webber fighting for the 10th? place crashes MS and makes him to abandon the race.
MS needs to find his mirrors, he was slow enough that Webber was unlapping himself, apparently this is legal.

6> Bahrain 06.
On better engine.
Tries to overtake an ill powered Fisi and looses a lot of time behind.
Finally overtakes him tankfully to a off track excursion of Fisi.
Whatever.

7> Sepang 06.
On better engine and lighter fuel loads.
Driving the most powerfull engine of the grid and on lighter fuel load tries to overtake Fred along several laps.
He was close, but not quite close enough.

So Webber is not a great overtaker? Nothing new. Nothing to see here, time to move on.

[Cosmograph]

Ah, but Webber was "certain" to finish fourth if he didn't have engine problems

All drivers should stop the "I surely would have ... if not for ...." statements especially when they DNF so early in a race.

[Buttoneer]

This is a perfect example of one of those threads where a good point has been made and an interesting discussion could ensue, if not for the tone and attitude (and in this case identity) of the original poster.

Overall, I don't think anyone had successfully challenged the point made here, however classless it might have been. Webbers strength clearly is not in overtaking. But then he does have an incredible ability to get a car further up the starting grid that it really ought to be. That doesn't make him a poor grand prix driver, maybe an unbalanced one (skills rather than mental...)

[HoldenRT]

Originally posted by Cosmograph
Ah, but Webber was "certain" to finish fourth if he didn't have engine problems

All drivers should stop the "I surely would have ... if not for ...." statements especially when they DNF so early in a race.

Got a link or a quote? I haven't seen anything that you speak of.

[Thanh Ha]

Originally posted by Buttoneer
Webbers strength clearly is not in overtaking. But then he does have an incredible ability to get a car further up the starting grid that it really ought to be. That doesn't make him a poor grand prix driver, maybe an unbalanced one (skills rather than mental...)

Unfortunately these days, the further up the grid, the harder it is for you to overtake, and unfortunately for Webber, he's usually up the front. In Turkey 05, he overtook two Red Bulls before his tyres went. Of course ITV didn't pick either of these up, Australians were lucky enough to see every single lap and saw this.

Oh and Monaco, even he himself said he had to tune down his RPM and wait while Alonso's tyres got worst.

[scheivlak]

Originally posted by HoldenRT


Got a link or a quote? I haven't seen anything that you speak of.

http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/50291

[mark f1]

I'm a big Webber fan but do agree that he needs to do better with passing.

His best pass last year, around the outside of Sato on the first lap at Tosa in San Marino GP.

Mark

[HoldenRT]

Originally posted by scheivlak


http://www.autosport...rt.php/id/50291

Ok, thanks.

I agree with Cosmograph on this one.

[polaris]

The way the regs work who needs to pass anyway. You got a reply from me only because its bloody clear you hate the guy. So what, are you making it your lifes aim to slag him off. Do what hes done and prove you are the better man otherwise **** off mate

[GhostR]

Originally posted by De Weberis
Forgot to mention,

Reply over the facts mentioned or cite successful MW's overtaking manouvres.

Thanks.

Indy, driving a Minardi: overtook Irvine, driving a Jaguar at least once.

As for the quoted "I surely would have..." there's a lot of press aggrandisement going on (as is normal). You need to read the quote properly (learn your language!;) ). Webber did not say that he "would" have beaten Montoya. He said that he was confident that he could have beaten Montoya. There's a difference between "would" and "could" ... a subtle one, but a big one when it comes to accusing a guy of having a big head. (Though, there's a case to be made that MW does have a big head ;) ).

[Corners]

Originally posted by De Weberis
It amazes me the inability of Mark Webber to overtake in F1.

I would like to mention some situations that supports my statement.

1> Aussie 05.
In a superior car.
Webber got overtaken by DC and tried to pay back and fails, almost crashing.

2> Sepang 05.
On better tires.
Webber crashes Ralf and Fisi, almost get seriously hurt.

3> Bahrain 05.
On better car and tires.
Webber tries to overtake Rubens and niente.

4> Monaco 05.
On better tires.
Webber spends several laps behind Alonso on bad tires, then Nick goes by Fred smoothly and Webber follows the example, but w/o class.

5> Turkey 05.
On a better car.
Webber fighting for the 10th? place crashes MS and makes him to abandon the race.

6> Bahrain 06.
On better engine.
Tries to overtake an ill powered Fisi and looses a lot of time behind.
Finally overtakes him tankfully to a off track excursion of Fisi.

7> Sepang 06.
On better engine and lighter fuel loads.
Driving the most powerfull engine of the grid and on lighter fuel load tries to overtake Fred along several laps.
MW pitted after 14 laps and FA after 26 laps (2,7 kg x 12 laps = 32,4 kg).
MW was at least 0,5 sec faster than Fred.

Maybe MW sandbagged due to his bad memories on this same Sepang trying to overtake a Renault. If he had troubles overtaking Fisi, the buona gente, imagine the problems to overtake El Matador.
Or maybe MW was waiting for Nick to come by and show him the way... after all, Sepang is a tricky circuit to overtake ( the circuit is narrow and there aren't long straights, enough).

Is it me, or what?

How about the all time classic with Klien at Jaguar in Brazil now that was special.

[Corners]

Its going to be funny when Nico overtakes Mark and finished higher up in more than one race this year.

[polaris]

Originally posted by Corners
Its going to be funny when Nico overtakes Mark and finished higher up in more than one race this year.

Why will that be funny? If Nico is supposed to be the new world champion of all time as some put it then how could MW stand in his way. According to your funny logic the field should consist of only one person..the one who is the best and the rest should just go home and not race at all. Now that would make for an interesting race huh.

[williams96]

Webber is a good overtaker - he took Fisi the race after last.

The problem with overtaking is that you need to be behind a car that is slower than yourself to overtake and if you qualify well then that chance goes up in smoke.

So he qualifies high and doesn't need to overtake so much, that is a weakness? Wow, talk about clutching at straws. Especially as someone has already pointed out, your facts are flawed i.e incorrect. If you can't read press releases about his races then no wonder you are biased.

[polaris]

Originally posted by williams96
Webber is a good overtaker - he took Fisi the race after last.

The problem with overtaking is that you need to be behind a car that is slower than yourself to overtake and if you qualify well then that chance goes up in smoke.

So he qualifies high and doesn't need to overtake so much, that is a weakness? Wow, talk about clutching at straws. Especially as someone has already pointed out, your facts are flawed i.e incorrect. If you can't read press releases about his races then no wonder you are biased.

Thats actually a bloody good point. And to boot he has often qualified his car higher than it should have. everyone goes on about how far nico went up the field in Bahrain and had he not stuffed up the first corner he would been on the podium etc. but in my view he just passed the slower cars and it just gets harder from there. Had the race been say another 10 laps would he seriously have got much further?

[MikeTekRacing]

webber (finally!) managed to pass fisi in bahrein when fisi had an undriveable car.
it's not like i have smth against webber, but overtaking is not his primary skill.

[williams96]

Originally posted by MikeTekRacing
webber (finally!) managed to pass fisi in bahrein when fisi had an undriveable car.
it's not like i have smth against webber, but overtaking is not his primary skill.

Really, he managed to get past a Fisi, who in similar circumstances hit him out of the race, of course he'd be sensible to play safe. The car was so undriveable no one else got past after Webber until Fisi was out of the way? Amazing, really amazing. Try rewatching the race?

[sejanus]

melb 05 he did pass DC, and it was a great pass on a track with bugger all overtaking but then he had a shocking pit stop.

He did a great pass on sato last year, at imola i think?

when in the minardi i remember he overtook someone (an arrows i think but not sure) in the tunnel at monaco.

the pass on alonso at monaco last year was an interesting one as alonso seemingly did not expect to be overtaken by NH, but after he did - boy was he on his guard! he didnt even try to hold a defensive line against NH!

there are others but it's not worth the effort. i don't think he's the best overtaker but certainly not the worst!

at sepang on sunday if you had paid any attention you would have seen the massive traction the renault had out of slow corners - mark was faster through fast corners but couldn't get close enough on the straights.

There have been many times when I have seen so called top tier drivers such as MS, KR stuck behind cars for many many laps - this does not mean they are bad overtakers though.

[De Weberis]

Originally posted by Buttoneer
This is a perfect example of one of those threads where a good point has been made and an interesting discussion could ensue, if not for the tone and attitude (and in this case identity) of the original poster.

Well, you might not like the content, but it was correct.

1> I've made a statement (hypotesis).

2> Placed facts (arguments).

3> And got a conclusion (prove).

It's science, not trolling nor hype.

[Pilla]

its not science its an opinion.

[emburmak]

IIRC FA said in the press conference that he would not have resisted if MW had made a pass. MW has a lot of good qualities but great overtaking is not one of them.

[Mobil1NSXR]

Originally posted by Menace
What is it with the recent resurgence of trolls on this BB? Is it because of the Atlasf1-->AA-->Autosport thingy or did some other F1 sites Forum go down recently???

Forums and threads that contain only nice comments aren't very objective are they?