83 replies to this topic

[delboy59]

Anyone wanna buy my book - 'More Sun, More Rain...And Even More Snow', a pictorial history of car racing at Oulton Park, the mini-Nurburgring according to many big named drivers. It features pictures of all the great names from Stirling Moss, Jack Brabham, Bruce McLaren, Chris Amon, Ayrton Senna to Jenson Button and many, many more. PM me if you are interested and would like to see some sample images.

[Twin Window]

Why don't you post some 'sample images' on here?

[delboy59]

Why don't you post some 'sample images' on here?

I don't know how to do this, but willing to learn...

I can't believe I've just read this.

?

[Alan Cox]

Have just noticed that another Oulton Park book is about to be published by Veloce, in their "Those were the days..." series at the soothing price of £12.99. It's by Peter McFadyen, who was Autosport's excellent photographer/reporter at northern circuits from the late 60s to the 80s. Pictures ae sure to be superb.

http://www.veloce.co...oup=Motorsport

[MCS]

Originally posted by Alan Cox
Have just noticed that another Oulton Park book is about to be published by Veloce, in their "Those were the days..." series at the soothing price of £12.99. It's by Peter McFadyen, who was Autosport's excellent photographer/reporter at northern circuits from the late 60s to the 80s. Pictures ae sure to be superb.

This will be well worth looking out for.

As far as I am concerned, Peter McFadyen produced THE BEST images from Oulton Park in his time there.

It wasn't simply a case of a "good picture" with Peter; he took the time and effort to take his shots from all parts of the circuit and produced some fabulous work - absolutely unsurpassed in my opinion. A true enthusiast, a very knowledgeable man and an absolute professional.

This should be a real treat.

I can't wait to see the book.

[Sharman]

There must be somewhere another archive (or have I missed seeing details) by Frankie Penn who was Autosports Northern Editor up until the 60's

[MCS]

Done. My apologies.

[Alan Cox]

Just received my copy of Peter McFadyen's book on "Motor racing at Oulton Park in the 1960s".

I thought it would be good, from knowing Peter's pics in Autosport in the 70s, and it doesn't disappoint.

All the photos are of excellent quality, and it rekindles memories of heroes from the 60s such as David Purley racing his AC Cobra, Derek Bennett and John Bridges racing B8s, Cyd Williams winning in F3 with his Brabham "screamer", Mac Daghorn in the Leda, KAye Griffiths in his BRP-Ford F5000 car and big Mike Coombe sticking out of his F5000 Cooper-Ford.

Brilliant stuff, and a 'must-have' for any Oulton habitues of the time.

[Gary Davies]

This seems as good a place to post this as anywhere. There's a wonderfully affectionate piece on Oulton Park in this week's Ask Nigel

I never went to the place, to my deep regret, before leaving England. Must put it at the top of the list for next visit home, perhaps even taking priority over the memsahib's seemingly endless Open Gardens and Stately Homes list.

[richie]

Talking about Veloce Publishing, I've just bought 'Motor Racing at Crystal Palace' by S S Collins- published two years ago. www.veloce.co.uk.

Worth buying unless already bought. Its pretty comprehensive: lists the races, old programmes, who it all started and the close. How it looks now (lost forever) and a collection 'pit popsies'.

[Haddock]

Originally posted by Vanwall
This seems as good a place to post this as anywhere. There's a wonderfully affectionate piece on Oulton Park in this week's Ask Nigel

If anything, he's too harsh on the place (or at least on how it has changed). OK, so I wasn't even born until 3 years after he last visited, but its not really a venue that was ruined by too many chicanes - at least not until 15 years after he last visited, when Paul Warwick was killed at the old Knickerbrook. If your taste runs to club racing, its still a really rather good venue.

[Sharman]

Knickerbrook spelled F-l-o-a-t-i-n-g-F-o-o-t for any except the very brave or exceptionally talented

[MCS]

Originally posted by Haddock
......but its not really a venue that was ruined by too many chicanes......

What?!!

[Sharman]

MCS
Haddock's not yet thirty so he has no memories of the real Oulton, only the bloody silly Fosters circuit etc
JSF

[Haddock]

Originally posted by Sharman
MCS
Haddock's not yet thirty so he has no memories of the real Oulton, only the bloody silly Fosters circuit etc
JSF

I haven't been there for a long time, what with living up north, but I'm really struggling to remember where the chicanes are...Knickerbrook aside?

OK, so there's a short circuit (Fosters) which is sometimes used for club racing. Used to quite like that as a spectator because I always watched from Deer Leap anyway - just meant the field came past more often.

But you're right - I didn't visit the circuit until 1987. Did they start reprofiling the corners etc? Or has my memory failed me as to where the chicanes are?

[Alan Cox]

The first chicane introduced was named Foulstons, and comes after Esso (sorry, Shell Oils) on the left of the circuit, before the climb up to Hilltop. It's the Knicker Brook one which really alienates the drivers of historic cars coming, as it does, after the long, fast straight over Hilltop.

[bradbury west]

Originally posted by Sharman
Knickerbrook spelled F-l-o-a-t-i-n-g-F-o-o-t for any except the very brave or exceptionally talented

John, and for those of us old enough to remember, the trees lining each side of the track down The Avenue focused the mind exiting Old Hall on an exuberant line, and/or in the wet, still gathering it for Cascades, entering it on adverse camber for a double apex. Albeit more widely spaced, the Old Hall exit/Avenue trees approach reminded me of a poor man's version of Tertre Rouge onto les Hunaudieres at la Sarthe, or are my rose tinted glasses too strong now?

Roger Lund

[Phil Rainford]

Originally posted by Alan Cox
The first chicane introduced was named Foulstons, and comes after Esso (sorry, Shell Oils) on the left of the circuit, before the climb up to Hilltop. It's the Knicker Brook one which really alienates the drivers of historic cars coming, as it does, after the long, fast straight over Hilltop.

At the time is was suggested that the chicane was introduced by John Foulson after he had tested one of his fearsome Can Am cars on the circuit's " original layout " i.e. Esso to Knicker Brook being a flat out run.
Rumour has it that the car took off when it crested Hill Top !!

[Sharman]

Roger
Do you recall Salvo in the Gilby Maser coming up the hill from Knickerbrook flat and having his throttle stick open? I was standing on top of the Old Garage as he came past and everybody shyed away as he switched off and braked like hell, still in gear with sheets of flame coming from the exhaust just visible through the tyre smoke. then the sickening crunch as he hit the tree. He must have realised the throttle was stuck as he made his change to 3rd or 4th exiting knickerbrook. And he walked away and was fit enough to be rude about the M type MG I was in when he was picking up the wreck later.
John

[MCS]

Originally posted by Sharman
MCS
Haddock's not yet thirty so he has no memories of the real Oulton, only the bloody silly Fosters circuit etc
JSF

Why make the remark then ?

[rdmotorsport]

Oulton?? I always thought it was a bloody horrid place with less facilities than say Mid Ohio a simular country setting ,although I am imformed it as improved.
Rodney Dodson.

[Sharman]

More than can be said for your spelling

[rdmotorsport]

this is very true

[bradbury west]

Originally posted by rdmotorsport
Oulton?? I always thought it was a bloody horrid place with less facilities than say Mid Ohio a simular country setting ,although I am imformed it as improved.
Rodney Dodson.

It all depends what you like, I suppose, since many feel it is still a very challenging circuit on which to drive or race, surely the acid test of such a venue, esp in the wet, much more so prior to the various alterations over the years. Spectator viewing was and is very good, and the parkland setting is a delight, in many ways being a key part of its attraction. From what I have seen since Dr Palmer took over, he has the right idea and the right approach.

Roger Lund

[Alan Cox]

Originally posted by bradbury west
Spectator viewing was and is very good, and the parkland setting is a delight, in many ways being a key part of its attraction. From what I have seen since Dr Palmer took over, he has the right idea and the right approach.

Agreed, Roger

[Gav Astill]

As an Oulton regular of 30 years, I still find the chicane at Knickerbrook hugely, hugely irritating. I fully realise why it is there (I actually saw the Paul Warwick accident at close quarters), but question two things about it;

1. Why does it have to be so severe? - traffic lights could hardly be more annoying there!. It totally disrupts the flow of the circuit. Could not some more gentle form of 'kink' be constructed

2. Why is it imposed in a blanket fashion for all meeting / categories / formulas / age of vehicles / number of wheels?

Sadly life in Britain now is almost overwhelmingly throttled by the Health & Safety Gestapo, so I suspect we are stuck with it. Can anything be done?

[Sharman]

I know it sounds callous but it is not intended so to be . Long before Paul Warwick had his accident, a friend was killed at Knickerbrook but despite this tragedy I still would prefer to have the circuit as it was.

[rdmotorsport]

Perhaps I am being somewhat callous so my opologies to Sharman but after the queues to get the transporter in plus the mud even in mid summer ,the price of repairs and damage considering my drivers did not realise the circuit had bends and I was present the tragic day of Mr. Warwick Jnr. etc.,so Mr.Sharman my spelling seems somewhat insignificant.
Rodney Dodson.

[AMICALEMANS]

It was a sad day at Oulton Park : i was there with a french driver and my wife. We had a saturday night Barb a Q just near Paul. i did not see the crash, but i went in the press room and i had an awfull sightseeing when the helico took Paul, just because they had some problems to fit him in the Helico... We leave the track just after an we stop our car just to cry... Very sad day despite it was a sunshining day.

[Dave Wright]

The kink after Clay Hill and before Druids is known as the Water Tower. I couldn't spot a water tower currently. Was there a water tower there in the past? Any clue where it was and/or when it was removed?

[Sharman]

As far as I recall there was a water Tower there, a metal affair which dated back to the American Occupation Forces, I go back to 53 but that may be significant as my memory may have faild me. What was there was the Old Garage just at the top of Clay Hill on the inside of the circuit where the kink starts. It really was one of the best places to spectate from but you had to have the entree to get up the stair case to the roof.

[simonlewisbooks]

I never saw any point at all in Foulstons chicane once Knickerbrook was altered. It does nothing positive as far as I can see and simply breaks up the racing, causes silly (and costly) shunts and makes overtaking on the following straight that much more difficult.
I think the 3 litre cars were doing 180mph+ over hill top before wings appeared and can't recall reading of that causeing too many problems.

I watched F3000s From Clay Hill in 1989 and it did look as if they had outgrown Knickerbrook the corner as it then was - so I can see the logic of slowing it down for faster cars, even if both the actual designs have been abysmal. But Foulston's is just wasted tarmac....

It all goes back to the question, does inserting a chicane cause more damage than it prevents?

[Andrew Kitson]

Originally posted by Gav Astill
As an Oulton regular of 30 years, I still find the chicane at Knickerbrook hugely, hugely irritating. I fully realise why it is there (I actually saw the Paul Warwick accident at close quarters), but question two things about it;

1. Why does it have to be so severe? - traffic lights could hardly be more annoying there!. It totally disrupts the flow of the circuit. Could not some more gentle form of 'kink' be constructed

Sadly, Brands and Snetterton have these stupid slow corners and alterations too. For example: Bottom Bend ( sorry..Graham Hill bend) at Brands, the Russell Chicane at Snetterton. They spoil the flow. Why are they there?
Simple - The biggest money spinner for most circuits are the Superbike meetings. The riders want and like these corners as do the TV companies that film them, so us four wheel types have top put up with them, unfortunately.

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by Andrew Kitson


The biggest money spinner for most circuits are the Superbike meetings. The riders want and like these corners as do the TV companies that film them, so us four wheel types have top put up with them, unfortunately.

Sorry Andrew I don't buy that. Chicanes at Russells and Knickerbrook , for example, predate the recent rise in popularity of Superbikes on TV.
From what was said of Mallory Park's new corners on TV this year I think most riders appear to utterly hate the slow stuff in general and love the fast flowing bends much as we do.

I grant that ridiculous Silverstone layout they use now probably IS for the benfit of TV ("Oh, good! another high-side to replay five times with all those crunching bones...") as I can't see what other function it performs.

[Andrew Kitson]

Ok maybe not all corners Simon. But I know for a fact there has often been talk of changing Russell at Snett as the car boys don't like it much, to find opposition from the bike fraternity. Graham Hill bend at Brands was definitely changed for Superbike reasons.

[BrianWatson]

For the historic Oulton Park enthusiasts, I've just put a load of old video from the 60s & 70 on to YouTube. Links from my web site. These include footage from the Gold Cup meetings of 1967, 1968, and 1970.

The video was transferred to digital by filming the screen, and parts are not very good quality, but might still be of interest.

I also have a lot of photos from these meetings: links from here.

Best,

[simonlewisbooks]

Originally posted by BrianWatson
For the historic Oulton Park enthusiasts, I've just put a load of old video from the 60s & 70 on to YouTube. Links from my web site. These include footage from the Gold Cup meetings of 1967, 1968, and 1970.

The video was transferred to digital by filming the screen, and parts are not very good quality, but might still be of interest.

I also have a lot of photos from these meetings: links from here.

Best,

Your Oulton films have already become a hot topic on the "You Tube" thread Brian and we have all been enthralled by them! . Superb stuff. Many thanks indeed for posting them.

[Andrew Kitson]

Fantastic stuff Brian. Infact I came across your Oulton films on youtube this morning!
Anymore, club racing for example?

[Andrew Kitson]

I urge everyone to click the back button on Brian's website page to see his brilliant photographs. The one of Redman in the Chevron on opposite lock is fantastic!

[Andy35]

I can't see Youtube until I get home but I am looking forward to having a look then.

I live near Brands Hatch and have only visited Oulton park once but loved it when I went. The parkland is lovely and the position at Brittens was sparsly populated and quite intimate with few folk around and good view.

It also gave me one of the funniest moments I have seen when a Fiesta (I think) spun after misjudging Brittens and came to a stop in front of us. The name of the driver on the rear passenger window ... Tony Brakewell. I could not stop chuckling....

Regards
Andy

[NPP]

Originally posted by BrianWatson
For the historic Oulton Park enthusiasts, I've just put a load of old video from the 60s & 70 on to YouTube.

Thank you very much, the touring cars were indeed spectacular!

NPP

[Steve O'Brien]

I know its bikes but what a race from the early 90's

http://www.youtube.c...lO8zbytLnE&NR=1

[BrianWatson]

Unfortunately not, that's my complete lot. Sorry about the sound tracks...

[Barry Boor]

Deciding that I wasn't happy with my slot car Oulton Park circuit, I decided to go into Google Earth and see what it REALLY looks like, then remodel my version.

Having done this, I realised that I needed to do a lot of modifications but then I thought I would compare the actual circuit shape with the entry in my 1955 Autosport Directory.

Apart from a slight variation where the road kinks right just before Cascades the map in the book is very accurate. BUT, the loop down at Esso Bend (now Shell, I believe) is completely different in the book to what it actually looks like. Does this mean it has been altered at some point and if not, I wonder why the two versions corner show such variation.

Aurora?

[eldougo]

For those that are unfamiliar with this GREAT track.


http://en.wikipedia....Oulton_Park.svg

Edited by eldougo, 22 March 2011 - 08:06.

[alansart]

Deciding that I wasn't happy with my slot car Oulton Park circuit, I decided to go into Google Earth and see what it REALLY looks like, then remodel my version.

Having done this, I realised that I needed to do a lot of modifications but then I thought I would compare the actual circuit shape with the entry in my 1955 Autosport Directory.

Apart from a slight variation where the road kinks right just before Cascades the map in the book is very accurate. BUT, the loop down at Esso Bend (now Shell, I believe) is completely different in the book to what it actually looks like. Does this mean it has been altered at some point and if not, I wonder why the two versions corner show such variation.

Aurora?

Was it changed when the Esso (Shell) loop was reopened in the 80's?

[Alan Cox]

Was it changed when the Esso (Shell) loop was reopened in the 80's?

I thought that the reopened "Shell" followed the original line of Esso.

[ExFlagMan]

I thought that the reopened "Shell" followed the original line of Esso.

I'm with you on that - IIRC, the only changes made where to the 'central reservation' between the two legs of the track, with the original ditch being filled in and the bank moved to the right - looking towards the hairpin - to give a bigger run off area on the exit of Island.

[MCS]

The old maps weren't accurate would be my guess. Remember the one that used to appear in the programme?

[Kingsleyrob]

Deciding that I wasn't happy with my slot car Oulton Park circuit, I decided to go into Google Earth and see what it REALLY looks like, then remodel my version.

Having done this, I realised that I needed to do a lot of modifications but then I thought I would compare the actual circuit shape with the entry in my 1955 Autosport Directory.

Apart from a slight variation where the road kinks right just before Cascades the map in the book is very accurate. BUT, the loop down at Esso Bend (now Shell, I believe) is completely different in the book to what it actually looks like. Does this mean it has been altered at some point and if not, I wonder why the two versions corner show such variation.

Aurora?

This always puzzled me as a nipper Barry. I recall in early books that I picked up from my library, and perhaps in my "Letts" motor racing diaries that it indicated a round sweep into Hill Top instead of a most definite 180 degree turn. Also it was dubbed "Covert Bend", pre Esso. I think it has the "sweep" in some of my 60s programmes too.

I mentioned it to Phil last Thursday as he brought along a selection of old programmes with the "sweep" depicted, and I recall he said he had no idea of why it was misrepresented, Sorry Phil if my memory has failed (again).

Rob