326 replies to this topic

[MoMurray]

When I were a lad...

Growing up in Dublin and being racing mad, I was intrigued to come across a school colleague one time (who was only at my school for a short time). His name was Sidney Taylor (iirc) and he said his Dad was a Formula One team manager.

I have seen Sid Taylor's name mentioned quite a lot around here recently but I know very little of the man or his career / exploits. Can anyone shed some light on this seemingly well accomplished Irishman.

Thanks,

Mo.

[philippe charuest]

in the late sixties he was running a team call "church farm" with some lola t70 in sportscar and a mclaren in f5000 for peter gethin ,the cars were white with a green stripe and a clover leaf, i thinq that later he was associated with ensign in f1

[Jerry Entin]

Hi Mo, I am good friends with Sid. You went to school with Lil Sid or Sid Jr. He is married now and has a daughter. Sid helped quite a few drivers in his day. He helped Denis Hulme with a sportscar called a Brabham BT8 he then got a Lola T70 sportscar in which Denis proceeded to beat everyone. He also ran cars called Formula 5000 which were Formula cars with 5 liter engines. He ran Peter Gethin in a McLaren and Brian Redman in a Chevron. He ran a Trojan Formula 5000 for Jody Scheckter and then a Lola T332 for Vern Schuppan. Then the Lola T-332 for Tony Brise. He also ran Lola Coupes and a GT40 Ford. For Drivers such as Hulme, Redman, Gardner, Brabham and Spence and Peter Revson and Trevor Taylor. He ran cars for Alan Jones and Patrick Tambay and Brett Lunger and Howden Ganley and Sam Posey and Derek Bell. He then tried Indy racing and Formula One. He liked Mo Nunn and Ron Taurnac and Tony Southgate as designers and was usually sponsored by Teddy Yip of Theodore Racing of Hong Kong. Everything Lil Sid said was true. He also ran the BRM CanAm Team in 1971 for the last two westcoast races. In Formula One Sid entered 51 Grand Prixs with drivers such as Cheever, Rosberg, Cecotto,Surer, Daly, Tambay,Lees, and Guerrero, Lammers and Byrne.

Edited by Jerry Entin, 14 May 2011 - 12:52.

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by philippe charuest
in the late sixties he was running a team call "church farm" with some lola t70 in sportscar and a mclaren in f5000 for peter gethin ,the cars were white with a green stripe and a clover leaf, i thinq that later he was associated with ensign in f1

Team Elite rather than Church Farm, surely
And the motif is much more likely to have been a shamrock than a cloverleaf ;)

[MoMurray]

Thanks Jerry, fascinating stuff. Sid Taylor must be the unsung hero of Irish motorsport. In an age when EJ and Irv and the rest of them can't take a piss without some newspaper covering it, it is amazing to me that someone with as full a resume as Taylors was almost unknown in his homeland, at least outside of motor racing circles...or maybe I was just very sheltered.

Seems like a Sid Taylor biography would be a good read.

Mo.

[Jerry Entin]

Tony Brise driven Sid Taylor Lola T 332 broke while leading the 1975 Long Beach Grand Prix

Here is Sid Taylor bringing the Lola T 332 of Tony Brise back to the pits at the 1975 Long Beach Grand Prix:

Sid helped an awful lot of young drivers on their way to becoming World Champions and Forumla 5000 Champions. And as you say never recieved much praise for his effort. Of all the drivers who drove for Sid I would say Peter Gethin and Denis Hulme enjoyed him the most. They liked being part of his effort and understood he was a private entrant with not very much outside backing. They never complained and both did a great job for Sid and his head mechanic Ron Bennett. I remember Derek Bell was also very nice to Sid when he ran for him at Elkhart Lake in 1972. In 1966 in the RAC Sports Car Races Sid's car won 5 of the 8 events and in 1968 his cars won 7 of the 9 events. In 1971 Sid Taylor won the prestigous Nigel Moores award from the British Racing Drivers Club, This award is for the best performance by a private entrant in International Motor Racing.The World Champion Drivers who drove for Sid were Hulme, Rosberg, Brabham, Scheckter and Jones. His Formula 5000 Champions were Gethin and Scheckter and he helped Brian Redman in 1971 and brought him to the States in The Chevron owned by Brian in 1972. Brian won his Championships for the Haas/Hall Team. He also had one Indy 500 winner drive for him Cheever. Cheever drove for Sid in Formula One. Pushing the car are Graham Donaldson and Julian Randles. At the back are Sid Taylor and our great friend Cliff Startin and Jerry Entin. I would call this picture " Here comes the Thunder." Tony Brise was unbelievable.

 

photo::Frank Sheffield collection

Edited by Jerry Entin, 26 April 2016 - 20:15.

[2F-001]

I'd never associated Sid Taylor with Church Farm Racing before - is that right? (I thought that had some connection with a relative of Derek Bell). My strongest recollection of CFR is as the entrant of Peter Gethin in the inaugural year of the Guards F5000 series in the UK, and the M10 ran in the, then, works-McLaren orange livery - I think it even had the Mclaren Cars lettering on the flanks as well as the Church Farm legend over the scuttle.
The following season saw Gethin (and briefly Wisell) in a livery I would more normally associate with Sid Taylor.

[Jerry Entin]

2F you are right. Sid never ran as Church Farms or Elite Racing. He only entered as Sidney Taylor Racing. Or after 1974 as Theodore Racing. The Elite group were a group of guys he bought his Brabham BT 8 from and the Church Farms group ran Peter Gethin the year before Sid ran him.

[Twin Window]

The front cover of Georgeano's Encyclopedia features Gethin in the Church Farm M10.

[Twin Window]

A photo of Sid with his friend Jerry Entin in the mid-1980s, posted here on Jerry's behalf:



Jerry's caption: 'Would you buy a used car from either of these guys...?'

[ian senior]

I'm sure there must be some great stories about Sid. I remember Frank Gardner telling of the time he was driving Sid's Lola T70. Frank had no end of problems with the car in the race - the gearbox gradually lost most of its useful ratios, it started raining and the wiper didn't work, the engine wasn't firing on the full complement of cylinders and the brakes faded to the point where they hardly worked at all. Even Frank couldn't cope with all this and he came into the pits with the intention of retiring. He told Sid what a heap the car was , and Sid said something like "Sure Frank, but do you think you could keep going to the finish"?

[kayemod]

Wasn't the 1969 orange semi-works Church Farm Racing M10A run by Derek Bell's step-father Bernard Holder? The green and white Sid Taylor car, also semi-works, was an M10B for the 1970 season. After Pete Gethin moved on, Sid ran Brian Redman in the less than sparkling M18. Anyone remember that little shark motif on Peter Gethin's helmet? If you asked about it's significance, the explanation you got depended on who you were, most people were told that it was Pete's birth sign, but a few were told that it represented Sidney Taylor.

[ian senior]

Originally posted by kayemod
Wasn't the 1969 orange semi-works Church Farm Racing M10A run by Derek Bell's step-father Bernard Holder? The green and white Sid Taylor car, also semi-works, was an M10B for the 1970 season. After Pete Gethin moved on, Sid ran Brian Redman in the less than sparkling M18. Anyone remember that little shark motif on Peter Gethin's helmet? If you asked about it's significance, the explanation you got depended on who you were, most people were told that it was Pete's birth sign, but a few were told that it represented Sidney Taylor.

Wasn't it Bernard HENDER (not Holder)? Known as "Colonel" for some reason, although I don't think he actually was one.

[Mallory Dan]

Without wishing to go into personal stuff, where did Sid get his cash from ? I imagine even in the late 60s/early 70s, owning and running a racing team must have needed quite a bit of dough. Did he have a good business on the side, or was he from a moneyed family ? Anyone know, as I agree he seemed a very interesting character.

[kayemod]

Originally posted by ian senior


Wasn't it Bernard HENDER (not Holder)? Known as "Colonel" for some reason, although I don't think he actually was one.

You're right it was Hender not Holder, for some reason I was thinking of the pop group Slade. On Pete Gethin's helmet sharks, I vaguely remember two sharks swimming in opposite directions, any guesses about the possible identity of the second one? Or maybe they were both meant to reperesent Sid.

[Jerry Entin]

Mallory has hit the nail on the head. Sid made his monies in the plant hire business. That would be in the states someone who put in driveways or such work. As you said it would be very hard for an individual to do the type of racing Sid was doing. Sid had a lot of friends in racing and was given cars at cost and engines at cost. Still an individual couldn't afford to enter Formula One and through Sid's association with Vern Schuppan he met Teddy Yip. Teddy made it possible for Sid to go Indy car racing and into Formula One. Bobby Unser has said Teddy was very nice but if he would have just spent a little more he would have done way better. This was also Sid's problem. If Teddy would have just given them a little more funds they could have done a lot better. It was Teddy's money and no one could tell him how to spend it and when he decided to quit that was his decision. Peter Gethin told me the sharks were Lou Stanley and Sid. With a smile on his face.

Edited by Jerry Entin, 24 March 2014 - 10:26.

[MCS]

If you go the "Personal photos from the paddock" thread there is a great Alan Cox photo of Sid pushing the rear wing of his McLaren M10B with Reine Wisell at the wheel...(but I'm damned if I can find it). There was also one of him with Vern Schuppan (which I can't find either )

[tyreiron]

Originally posted by Mallory Dan

Without wishing to go into personal stuff, where did Sid get his cash from ? I imagine even in the late 60s/early 70s, owning and running a racing team must have needed quite a bit of dough. Did he have a good business on the side, or was he from a moneyed family ? Anyone know, as I agree he seemed a very interesting character.


I remember reading somewhere that Sid made a lot of money renting out JCBs during the foot and mouth disease outbreak in the UK in 1967.

[Coogar]

Sid came from the south Dublin village (now suburb) of Rathfarnham, and I seem to recall his driving at Dunboyne and Phoenix Park - the only two Irish race meetings at the time - in (first) a Landar FJ and latterly a Lotus Elite.
At that point though, the entry list stated he was : S.Taylor, Walsall.
Indeed I suspect he may even have won something pretty big at Dunboyne, or was that Tommy Hayden ?
Anyway he also gave the Lola T140 its first ever race appearance (at Phoenix Park) - although for the life of me I can't remember who drove it that day. That marked the beginning of F5000 in Europe.
The partnership with Denny Hulme, first with Brabham BT8 and then Lola T70 came shortly after Sid hung up his helmet.
As we say in the emerald Isle he 'looks very like himself' in that pic with Mr Entin. I Hope he's continuing to flourish in the US.

[Jerry Entin]

Sid isn't flourishing in the US he now lives in Birmingham with his lovely wife Mary. Sid didn't hang up his helmet with the BT8 or the Lola T70. He raced both of them. Then he hung up his helmet. Sid was just over visiting me at the time of that picture. Sid's parents lived in Rathfarnham and Sid converted a Barn area of his family's farmlands into a Hotel Pub in the 70's. It was called Taylor's Grange Hotel. His parents lived right next door. He had the girls dress like cowgirls and he brought over hugh mugs from the states to pour schooners of beer. I sent him over a gas log set to put in the fire place. I didn't know they had propane there and it was set for natural gas. One of the cowgirls lit it and it blew her eye lashes off. When I went there for a visit Sid said to her this is the guy who sent over the fire log set that almost blew you to kingdom come. She was no fan of mine. Sid was living in England in Walsall at that time but visited his parents and family on a regular basis. Ireland is a very beautiful country.

[MoMurray]

Wow. I grew up a couple of miles or so from Taylors Grange and never made the connection. In fact I first met my wife in the disco in Taylors (then called Marleys) eighteen years ago.

Mo.

[Pedro 917]

Some pictures from Frank Sytner in the Sidney Taylor Lola T70 livery at the Spa Le Mans Endurance Series 2005. The first laps of the race were driven behind the safety car as there was a zero visibility at Les Combes. Sytner won.

[Jerry Entin]

Mo getting back to Taylors Grange Hotel I fondly remember having a beer there with Sid's father and how proud Mr. Taylor was of Sid's racing and of Sid being able to bring a pub to Rathfarnham. A short story about Sid's dad is one time a mechanic was there working on Sid's Formula 5000 car. His name was Richie Bray and he had the fuel lines off and Mr Taylor walks up to him and say is that fuel there on the ground. The mechanic said yes it is. Mr Taylor than proceded to light his pipe and throws the match down on the ground. He didn't know it but a puddle of fuel had ran down to were he was standing, boom! It explodes and catches the work area on fire. This was a place with no water to it and of course there was no fire extinguisher around either. Richie begins throwing sand on it and luckly saved the car. Mr Taylor told me latter that stunt almost got him in trouble. He was a great guy. As he told me later seeing the flames heading toward the car got his heart to racing.

[Squire Straker]

Sid raced an Elite in 1963 at Dunboyne and Phoenix Park, in 1964 he raced an Elan, in 1965 his Brabham BT8 at the same events. In 1966 he raced at Phoenix Park only in the TT winning Lola T70, what a thrill that was to see and hear it, and in 1967 he returned to Phoenix Park with another T70 spyder. The Lola T140 was driven by Chris Craft in 1968. I also think that Mary drove a black (?) coloured Cooper S around this time.

[Alan Cox]

As these Sid Taylor photos seem to have gone AWOL on the Personal Photos from the Paddock thread, I post them again here:

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

Mary drove at Phoenix Park twice , Imp once and a Cooper S , she also raced on British tracks , Syd was into bikes before cars and sustained serious injuries which left him with a very bad limp , following an early morning accident on a BSA Goldstar ( for Mo Murray, it happened on Knocklyon Road ) . As a 14 year old I was really impressed impressed , he set the lap record at 111mph , awesome stuff in 66. Another connection , Derek Daly was brought to the meeting to watch Syd , liked what he saw , and the rest is history .

[MoMurray]

Thanks Eddie, I didn't know any of that. I knew the story about Derek being brought to see a race but I didn't know it was to see Sid (and I thought it was Dunboyne). Maybe someone should have given Sid's number to John Kenny at RTE...

BTW, (OT) I met Bernard Devaney's son at Laguna recently and he is a very impressive and bright young man. Although he is the reserve driver for the A1GP team and so does not get to drive, rather than sitting around doing nothing, he took it upon himself to work in the data processing side of the team. In doing so he is providing a valuable resource as well as learning skills that will make him a more complete driver when he gets his chance. I hope he gets a drive somewhere because he would be a great representative of Irish motorsport.

Mo.

[EDWARD FITZGERALD]

Devaney will I gather do the last race,. I think you may be right , brain cells fading .

[Tommy Byrne]

Sid Taylor got me my drive in F1 and i will always be grateful to him for that. We had some great laughs together considering the circumstances were so bad.

I just found out a couple of months ago that he and he alone was the only one that wanted me in the team as opposed to the other two ar******s Julian Randals and Jo Ramirez. If i had known at the time maybe i could have handled being told by them that i was a wanker a little better.

But now i know that Sid stuck his neck out for me and i have to thank him belatedly.

[Jerry Entin]

Sid had a lot of faith in Tommy. As did Kerry Agapiou. I believe Tommy did a very good job for Kerry in Indy lights. I wasn't around when Sid got involved with Formula One or Indy cars and don't believe Sid would have had anything to do with Tommy's being left go from the Formula One Team. He always told me he had a lot of faith in him. As Tommy knows Formula One is very political and the Teams have to go with drivers who can generate or bring funds with them. I remember watching Keke Rosbeg try and run the Theodore at Long Beach and doing terribly. I asked Sid was Keke a good driver. He said yes.
I said well that car is junk than. He was trying so hard he was pink. I believe Tommy ran into the same trouble. In my opinion if Tommy would have taken the test driver position with McLaren and got more accoustomed to Formula One cars we would have seen alot more of him in Formula One.

Edited by Jerry Entin, 29 November 2010 - 03:44.

[graham donaldson]

I worked with sid taylor and tony brise it was quite an experience those were the days
it was good to read about sid .there are many stories out there
graham donaldson

[MCS]

There's a book in here somewhere, isn't there?

Given the list of drivers alone, there must be some marvellous stories to be told...

[Pedro 917]

Jerry asked me to post this picture from Long Beach 1975: Graham Donaldson on the front. Kerry Agapiou in the middle, Jullian Randals at back and Sid Taylor on the right. On the left: Carmen Entin, Gordon Calhoun from Goodyear and Jerry Entin. picture by Cliff Startin

[Jerry Entin]

Graham Donaldson at front on left with fan Carmen Entin and Gordon Calhoun of Goodyear tire and Jerry Entin

In the middle Kerry Agapiou and at back Julian Randels and Sid Taylor on right side.

 In 1975 Sid called me and said to enter his lola T 332 for the Long Beach race that was up coming. He said he was being sponsored by Teddy Yip of Theodore Racing and he was bringing over a young guy I would like. I said who is he. He said his name is Tony Brise and he was the Formula 3 and go kart champ of England. Sid said he was bringing his new wife Janet with. I said what kind of a car do they like. He said Tony's father in law had a Jensen could I get him one. I called my friend Chic Vandagriff of Hollywood Sportscars and said do you have a new Jensen in stock He said he had a new convertible a green one. I said could I borrow it for Tony Brise he was Graham Hill's protege and was coming to drive for my friend Sid Taylor at Long Beach. Chic said sure. When we got out to Long Beach Graham Hill came over and said are you going to make my boy look good? I said we will try our hardest. I got Kerry Agapiou and Graham Donaldson to work on the car. Sid brought over Julian Randles. Tony won his heat race and was leading the main when a halfshaft broke. Graham Hill came up to me and said " Well I guess they know we were here." Just than Franz Weis and Troy Rogers came up and said Tony really drove great. Graham Hill just smiled. As they walked away he said to me those are two great guys. I said they are Brian Redman's mechanics they just won the race. After the race Parnelli Jones came up to me and said what planet did you get that kid from. He owned the cars of Andretti and Al Unser. No one in the States had ever heard of Tony Brise. Sid did a great job of running the Team and It was just bad luck he didn't get a win in Long Beach. Sadly shortly after this while coming back from a Formula One test in Graham Hill's plane. Tony and Graham were lost. The picture above is us in the pits.

 

This story is for MCS

photo: Cliff Startin

Edited by Jerry Entin, 26 April 2016 - 20:17.

[graham donaldson]

To all out there
What great stories that was written about him.It was good to see photos of Ron Bennet and Julian
Randall.I worked for Sid as well ,as I have been in racing since 1968 ,BUT I have more Sid taylor stories than any of the other teams that I worked for.I was happy to see Tommy has written in as well.The F 5000 had good races that series should be still around
Graham Donaldson

[graham donaldson]

Originally posted by MoMurray
Thanks Jerry, fascinating stuff. Sid Taylor must be the unsung hero of Irish motorsport. In an age when EJ and Irv and the rest of them can't take a piss without some newspaper covering it, it is amazing to me that someone with as full a resume as Taylors was almost unknown in his homeland, at least outside of motor racing circles...or maybe I was just very sheltered.

Seems like a Sid Taylor biography would be a good read.

Mo.

Mo
it is awonder that no one has written a book about Sid.
The story would be good ,but there would be some stories!!!
Graham Donaldson

[Twin Window]

Jerry has pointed out that Taylor's Grange Hotel - as mentioned by him earlier in this thread - was promoted on the flanks of Sid's Trojan T101 during 1973;



Pic taken in the pitlane at Brands.

[Pedro 917]

Jerry sent me this picture from Sid Taylor's archives :



Denis Hulme after winning the Tourist Trophy at Oulton Park, June 1968

[Jerry Entin]

This picture was scanned by Anders Hedborg who is the current owner of Sid's Lola Coupe he was over for a visit with Sid. I would call this picture "Let the good times roll." The picture above is of course Brett Lunger driving Sid's 1973 Trojan F5000 car. Picture taken by Stuart Dent of Brett Lunger. When Brett went to that race he asked Sid for his pit pass. Sid said you don't need one just be in your driving outfit. They won't bother you. Sid had given all the pit passes away to friends and sponsors. So, Brett using his Marine Recon service training climbed the chain link fence to get into the race. This was in 1973 long before a certain Helio Castroneves started doing it. Helio wasn't born until May 10, 1975. By the way Brett won that race.

[MCS]

Originally posted by Jerry Entin
In 1975 Sid called me and said to enter his lola T 332 for the Long Beach race that was up coming. He said he was being sponsered by Teddy Yip of Theodore Racing and he was bringing over a young guy I would like. I said who is he. He said his name is Tony Brise and he was the Formula 3 and go kart champ of England. Sid said he was bringing his new wife Janet with. I said what kind of a car do they like. He said Tony's father in law had a Jensen could I get him one. I called my friend Chic Vandagriff of Hollywood Sportscars and said do you have a new Jensen in stock He said he had a new convertible a green one. I said could I borrow it for Tony Brise he was Graham Hill's protege and was coming to drive for my friend Sid Taylor at Long Beach. Chic said sure. When we got out to Long Beach Graham Hill came over and said are you going to make my boy look good? I said we will try our hardest. I got Kerry Agapiou and Graham Donaldson to work on the car. Sid brought over Julian Randles. Tony won his heat race and was leading the main when a halfshaft broke. Graham Hill came up to me and said " Well I guess they know we were here." Just than Franz Weis and Troy Rogers came up and said Tony really drove great. Graham Hill just smiled. As they walked away he said to me those are two great guys. I said they are Brian Redman's mechanic's they just won the race. After the race Parnelli Jones came up to me and said what planet did you get that kid from. He owned the cars of Andretti and Al Unser. No one in the States had ever heard of Tony Brise. Sid did a great job of running the Team and It was just bad luck he didn't get a win in Long Beach. Sadly shortly after this while coming back from a Formula One test in Graham Hill's plane. Tony and Graham were lost. The picture above is us in the pits. This story is for MCS

Great story, Jerry.

I remember the race being well covered in the UK with various colour pictures appearing. It looked absolutely fantastic. Must have been really quite something to have witnessed it first hand though.

I guess the book on Tony Brise, Tom Pryce and Roger Williamson must be about due for publication now...

[Twin Window]

A couple of pics, posted on behalf of Jerry Entin...

Sid behind the wheel in the 1960s;



Sid by his Chrysler 300 recently;

[Alan Cox]

The pic of Sid in his own T70 speaks volumes about racing in the 60s - when the car's owner could run it in "clubbies" and a grand prix star would run it at international meetings on weekends when there wasn't a GP.

Fabulous! Three hearty cheers for Sid, and the memories he gave us.

[Jerry Entin]

Alan as they say those were the days. Sid was always careful not to hurt the car so Denis would be able to do good in the big races. However I think Ron Bennett was always a little worried that something could happen. To me Sid Taylor was the greatest private entrant of the 60's and 70's. He enjoyed his racing and loved finding new talent. Also to Alan Cox thanks for your great pictures you loaned this site. Also to Stuart Dent for helping me post photos and to Luc Ghys for helping post photos. And to Anders Hedborg for sending me the great photo of Sid next to his car. And of course to Mo Murray for starting this thread to honor a great guy.

[Twin Window]

Posted on behalf of Jerry;

[Jerry Entin]

Thanks Stuart for putting up these great pictures loaned to this site by Peter Quinn. They show the Ford GT40 Sid's team ran and of course his lola T-70 Coupe. Thank you very much Peter Quinn for allowing us to show your great pictures on this site. The Lola pictured is now owned by Anders Hedborg. Of Stockholm, Sweden.

[Twin Window]

Posted on Jerry's behalf; Peter Gethin in the cockpit of the Doug Shierson/Marathon Oil Chevron B24 during 1973...

[Andre Acker]

Hi Twin Window,

Any idea of the meaning of those two fishes pictured on P. Gethin's helmet ?

VBR.
André Acker.

[Twin Window]

Hi André

The reason Jerry wanted that pic posted was because the 'sharks' were mentioned in an earlier post (possibly in a different thread) with one representing Sid.

Having said that, I'm sure I remember Peter telling me late-1973 that they were dolphins, and represented his star-sign Pisces...

[Jerry Entin]

Ha Ha Stuart: Those are sharks OK and Peter told me they were Lou Stanley and Sid Taylor. This picture was loaned to the site by Rob Neuzel and it was taken at MidOhio by his dad Alan Nuezel. Andre on page one of this thread I tell kayemod the story. Rob's site can be viewed at www.yesterdaysneuz.com it has great Formula 5000 and CanAm and Indy pictures all taken by his father. Thank you race announcer. I had a typo there. I would further state that Sid Taylor and I really enjoyed Peter Gethin. He drove the Chevron for Sid at Donneybrook in 1972 when Brian Redman was unable to attend. He did a great job and Doug Shierson was in the pits with us and hired Peter on the spot to drive the new Chevron for him in 1973. Doug Shierson was a great guy and sadly passed away.

[raceannouncer2003]

Should be:

http://www.yesterdaysneuz.com