95 replies to this topic

[Doug Nye]

- well, it grieves me deeply to admit it, but I do to some extent have the tits for it...

[red stick]

Damn. I'm almost having a conversation with one of my favorite auto writers and physique is the topic?




[nonchalantly] "And how are you doing today, Mr. Nye?"

[Frank S]

Originally posted by red stick
Sorry E.B. -- its a matter of taste of course but I personally cannot think of a more disappointing motorsports book over the last five years than Brock Yates's Against Death and Time; hastily thrown together, poorly edited, full of his cranky political commentary, whether it fit the period he was writing about or not, with both the lamest dialogue and the worst-written sex scene published in the last century. If I had this volume on a desert island I'd use it for kindling.

Seriously, I love the man, but I had to go back and quickly find and read a copy of Sunday Driver to wash that nonsense out of my mind and remind me why I liked him in the first place.


Oh, and at the risk of being accused of sucking up if I could only take one author to the island it would be Nye. Doug Nye.

Seeing as how there is a bit of drift from tangible, yes-it-is-real material, is there a thread that names books that should be written, and by whom? Or who of our favorites should write what?

20-something years ago, when Brock Yates was just past the thick part of his commentator career I sidled up to him in the pits at Riverside, nudged him, and said, "I really liked Sunday Driver, but what I'm eager to see is the next job, the one about doing race commentary on the TV". He glowered for a second or two, brightened, and said, "I got it! Sunday Motormouth"!

I'm still waiting. Maybe I missed it? Maybe the interesting parts would be too, er, poignant for public consumption?

I'd also like to see F1 Been Veddy Veddy Good To Me by Bernie, as told to Pete Fenelon.

--
Frank S

"I often think how wasteful it is that those with real capabilities should
doubt their abilities, while bunglers seem so damn sure of themselves."
-- Gil Amelio, "On the Firing Line"

[Collombin]

Originally posted by red stick
Sorry E.B. -- its a matter of taste of course but I personally cannot think of a more disappointing motorsports book over the last five years than Brock Yates's Against Death and Time

Never read any Tom Rubython?

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by Frank S
Seeing as how there is a bit of drift from tangible, yes-it-is-real material, is there a thread that names books that should be written, and by whom? Or who of our favorites should write what?

I'd also like to see F1 Been Veddy Veddy Good To Me by Bernie, as told to Pete Fenelon.

--

You rotten buggers are all ganging up on me. When writing pays more than my tedious but safe day job maybe I'll do it ;P

Books I want on my shelves:

A Tony Brooks autobiography.

Biographies (or perhaps a joint biography?) of Brian Redman and Vic Elford, ideally along the lines of The Jack Brabham Story and full of pics as well as words. Adam Cooper could probably do these very well, after his Piers Courage biography showed his aptitude for historic work.

A decent (i.e. not John Starkey!) history of Lola - Mike Lawrence has to be the man for this, but I doubt it'll happen while Eric Broadley is alive.

Connaught Cars and The Rise And Fall Of HWM by DCN.

A proper history of saloon/touring-car racing in Britain - everything from Mike Hawthorn sideways in a Jag to the near-collapse of the BTCC.

A book looking at the great F1 designers and the way their ideas came to dominate motorsport - ideally, concentrating on the post-Chapman years - Harvey Postlethwaite, John Barnard, Ross Brawn/Rory Byrne, Patrick Head, Adrian Newey etc. Giorgio Piola could be the man for this...

A detailed book on the design, development and racing career of the Audi R8 and Bentley EXP8. (I know it's recent history, but let's start getting this down early!)

An update of Chris Mason's Uphill Racers.

A History Of Motor Racing In Asia and A History Of Motor Racing In Latin America

Images From The Golden Age Of British Club Racing - 1960-1980.

[MattKellett]

I understand that Vic's autobiography is close to being printed and due for release soon. You can preorder on his website vicelford.com. I would encourage anyone interested in the book to order from their website as it always helps to give a little extra to the author imho. I've ordered a few books through them and Vic always writes a nice personal inscription, which I think makes the purchase a little special.

Matt

[red stick]

Originally posted by E.B.


Never read any Tom Rubython?

No. And having been warned off here, I probably will remain spared.


Where Yates went afoul was probably trying to create his "faction" version of 1955. He is a leading motorsports journalist. He's no doubt spoken to many of the persons involved in his story: Cunningham, Hill, Fitch, etc. To put such bad dialogue in their mouths, solely to move his plot along, was annoying. So annoying that about halfway through I started wondering how much better the book would have been if he had just told the story as straight history instead of using people who have fascinating stories to tell, and have told them, to serve his plot devices. Which is never a good sign when you're reading a book.

[red stick]

Originally posted by MattKellett
I understand that Vic's autobiography is close to being printed and due for release soon. You can preorder on his website vicelford.com. I would encourage anyone interested in the book to order from their website as it always helps to give a little extra to the author imho. I've ordered a few books through them and Vic always writes a nice personal inscription, which I think makes the purchase a little special.

Matt

That's good to know. I bought a DVD copy of The Speed Merchants from him, although I didn't realize it was him at the time, a few years ago on eBay and he was kind enough to autograph that as well, which was a nice surprise.

[David Beard]

Originally posted by Roger Clark
Connew: A Racing history by Barry Boor
Lotus 16: A Study in Failure by David Beard
Anything by Pete Fenelon
Madness and How I Learned to Live With It by Roger Clark

Connew...I know Barry has actually investigated the viability and been put off....but I still think that there must be a book there. The contrast with what can happen today is delicious.

Lotus 16? I'm very flattered to be included. If it ever happens, however, it will be entitled "The Delicate Dinosaur"

Of course Pete should write something. But in the meantime, why hasn't some magazine enrolled him to do their book reviews? He beats most peoples' efforts hands down.

[Collombin]

What I would really like to see is a comprehensive book about Langhorne, complete with rare pics, great stories and all the stats too.

L Spencer Riggs is working on such a tome I believe, so there is hope.

[bradbury west]

I would always find space for "Backfire", the compilation of Alan Clark's articles for Classic Cars edited by R Coucher in conjunction with the Clark family. He had been there, and got the T shirt for most car topics, and his views were always interesting, usually trenchant, invariably bucking the trend. A real car enthusiast. A useful book to dip into a chapter here and there, over again.

I recall encountering him at the 40th Anniversary Goodwood Sprint in 1988. He turned up to watch driving an original C type Jaguar. Nice man to talk to about cars. Knew his stuff and very tolerant of an enthusiastic Joe Public.

RL

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by MattKellett
I understand that Vic's autobiography is close to being printed and due for release soon. You can preorder on his website vicelford.com. I would encourage anyone interested in the book to order from their website as it always helps to give a little extra to the author imho. I've ordered a few books through them and Vic always writes a nice personal inscription, which I think makes the purchase a little special.

Matt

Excellent news. Vic has turned up here on occasion and posted some very evocative and insightful stuff (as has Brian!). His autobiography is going to be very special, I'd say - anyone who's achieved as much as Vic is going to have some great stories to tell.

[petefenelon]

Originally posted by bradbury west
I would always find space for "Backfire", the compilation of Alan Clark's articles for Classic Cars edited by R Coucher in conjunction with the Clark family. He had been there, and got the T shirt for most car topics, and his views were always interesting, usually trenchant, invariably bucking the trend. A real car enthusiast. A useful book to dip into a chapter here and there, over again.

I recall encountering him at the 40th Anniversary Goodwood Sprint in 1988. He turned up to watch driving an original C type Jaguar. Nice man to talk to about cars. Knew his stuff and very tolerant of an enthusiastic Joe Public.

RL

Not really a racing book but a very enjoyable one -- I seem to have accumulated all three volumes of AC's diaries (which feature AC bunking off for a read of Motor Sport on more than one occasion), his history of the Tories (a fantastically splenetic book, well worth a read even if like me your politics lean more towards anarchy than anywhere along the conventional left/right spectrum!) and most of his military history. His writing was always splendidly personal, elegant, and polished. "Aces High" (his nicely-illustrated history of WW1 fighter planes and their pilots) will probably be of interest to many TNF readers, too.

[green-blood]

I have "backfire" on the shelf, being Irish I have to hide it from my father!!!

[Keir]

Alone on a desert island with NYE !!!!

[PRD]

Originally posted by HDonaldCapps
What I did have sent to me were my Hornblower books by C.S. Forester. ....

Off topic, but if you like Hornblower, then you ought to read Patrick O'Brian's books starting with "Master and Commander "

[Macca]

Originally posted by PRD


Off topic, but if you like Hornblower, then you ought to read Patrick O'Brian's books starting with "Master and Commander "

Indeed, my dear sir; which they are the novels of the world, for all love.



I would add to Roger's list of as-yet unpublished masterpieces "The Wrong Guy Bought It: the story of the making of the film 'Grand Prix' " (with contributions from Jim Russell, Bob Bondurant, Phil Hill, Chris Amon and many others involved in the shooting)


Paul M

[kayemod]

Originally posted by PRD


Off topic, but if you like Hornblower, then you ought to read Patrick O'Brian's books starting with "Master and Commander "

Even more off topic, I think that Patrick O'Brian is somewhat over-rated, none of the charm of C S Forrester, and wasn't the film they made of 'Master & Commander' awful? I feared the worst when I saw that the 'evil enemy vessel' in the book had changed from American to French for the film, mustn't upset the US audiences. Were the Americans victorious in the Napoleonic Wars, as well as almost every other war in history?

[red stick]

Originally posted by kayemod

Were the Americans victorious in the Napoleonic Wars, as well as almost every other war in history?

Yes. Ask Wellington's regulars, at least the survivors, about that little incident on the plains of Chalmette, below New Orleans, January 8, 1815.

[Twin Window]

Originally posted by Doug Nye

- well, it grieves me deeply to admit it, but I do to some extent have the tits for it...

You do realise that I will quote you on this, matey...

[Doug Nye]

Ah.

Well - as you know, from my rugby days perhaps I DO have broad shoulders and a beard too.

Just throw another buffalo on the barbie...

DCN

[FLB]

Originally posted by petefenelon


Excellent news. Vic has turned up here on occasion and posted some very evocative and insightful stuff (as has Brian!). His autobiography is going to be very special, I'd say - anyone who's achieved as much as Vic is going to have some great stories to tell.

There's something I think I don't understand here...


I've just been on Vic's website. It says he's writing his third book. He wrote a book on Porsche driving technique in 1994, but there's also a biography (in French) that I'm currently reading.


Was La victoire... ou rien! actually written in French first and not translated in English???


If his next book is anything like La victoire... ou rien!, you will be enormously pleased with the result

[MattKellett]

Originally posted by FLB

There's something I think I don't understand here...


I've just been on Vic's website. It says he's writing his third book. He wrote a book on Porsche driving technique in 1994, but there's also a biography (in French) that I'm currently reading.


Was La victoire... ou rien! actually written in French first and not translated in English???


If his next book is anything like La victoire... ou rien!, you will be enormously pleased with the result

FLB - As far as I'm aware Vic's book La Victoire ou rien was only published in French, I've no idea why and, I wish I could read in French but sadly I can't. So I looked up the title on the online dictionary the title translates to "The victory or nothing". I expect you must have had a good read.

I'd like to recommend his book Porsche High Performance Driving Handbook to anyone who hasn't read it and is interested in Vic. Not only does he give some great advice and techniques but he also includes many stories from his racing career as examples for the techniques he is discribing.

I've been waiting quite a while for his upcoming book which is titled Vic Elford Reflections Of A Golden Era Of Motorsport, ever since talking to the folks from David Bull Publishing at the Monterey Historics last year. Every year they release a new book around about the time of the Historics, and with the signing sessions they have with drivers including Derek Bell, Brian Redman, Vic Elford, Dan Gurney, David Hobbs just to mention afew, they normally manage to reel me in for one of their beautifully published books. So if you are at the historics this year I'm sure you will be able to meet Vic at their display. I have to agree with Pete Fenelon that a biography on Brian Redman would also be great, I don't think I've meet a nice person at these events - a real gent!

Matt

[HDonaldCapps]

Mike Argetsinger's book on Walt Hansgen arrived here in the desert yesterday.

It was well worth the wait. Mike has done an excellent job.

The dedication to Marc Bishop really made be take a moment and think of John and Peggy Bishop, two great and wonderful people, whose hospitality I can scarcely begin to describe. If there is someone who truly deserves a book, now that Walt has finally had that milestone accomplished, it is John Bishop, with Cameron Argetsinger close on his heels.....

So, here I am with two superb books on Ralph De Palma and Walt Hansgen written by two excellent authors who are also good friends..... hard to beat that.....

[PRD]

Originally posted by MattKellett
I understand that Vic's autobiography is close to being printed and due for release soon. You can preorder on his website vicelford.com. I would encourage anyone interested in the book to order from their website as it always helps to give a little extra to the author imho. I've ordered a few books through them and Vic always writes a nice personal inscription, which I think makes the purchase a little special.

Matt

I'd like to echo Matts comments and I've ordered a copy from Anita (Elford)

Paul

[bradbury west]

DCN

What news of progress with the Phill Hill photo/biography/reminiscences tome which surely reflects halcyon days ? This must rank almost as a personalised version of Front Engines etc bearing in mind what PTH drove. Can't wait, perfect for contemplative reading

Roger Lund

[monoposto]

Fighter pilot autobiographies have a relatively new book at the peak of the pyramid so far as I am concerned. If you haven't yet read 'First Light' by Geoffrey Wellum, then order it right now.

I find it one of the most penetrating, unforgettable, atmospheric, un-put-downable biogs I have ever read. So HUGELY recommended.

As father of a pilot maybe I'm biased, but the training experiences - with the inevitable balls-up - all ring utterly true. Wellum went from novice kid through the Battle of Britain and its aftermath, bomber escorts, to the Malta convoys and defence of the island, before his body (and mind) cried enough. His emergent detestation of war itself is compelling...as is the sheer aesthetic joy of flight...

'First Light' - Geoffrey Wellum - I cannot believe you would not be as entranced by it as I have been - you might even forget to signal that passing cruise liner...

DCN

"First Light" is dramatised on BBC2 ( TV ) at 9PM this Tuesday 14th Sept

http://www.bbc.co.uk...up/first-light/

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rammes/b00ttjz0

Edited by monoposto, 12 September 2010 - 18:53.

[1969BOAC500]

Apologies for yet again unearthing a (very) old thread - I tried searching but couldn't find an update ( surely it must have been...?).

 

Anyhow, I've enjoyed looking at the recommendations on this and other threads. I've been avidly collecting racing books since the mid-1960s and it's been fun to look through them to collate the following list. Totally personal, no claims about the 'best' - these are the ones I often return to ( and yes, I'm more of a sports car fan than F1...). To keep it manageable, he's an arbitrary 'ten' for my Desert Island....

 

Challenge Me The Race    -    Mike Hawthorn.

 

B.R.M. Vols 1 & 2    -    Doug Nye

 

Castrol Racing Drivers Manual    -    Frank Gardner & Doug Nye

 

Mon Ami Mate    -    Chris Nixon

 

Racing The Silver Arrows    -    Chris Nixon

 

Racing In The Rain    -    John Horsman

 

The Certain Sound    -    John Wyer

 

Alan Mann - A Life Of Chance    -    Alan Mann & Tony Dron

 

Daring Drivers, Deadly Tracks    -    Brian Redman & Jim Mullen

 

Jenks - Passion For Motor Sport    -    Denis Jenkinson   

 

There are many others I like - even this 'top ten' is actually eleven !

[Sterzo]

This being shipwrecked business needs careful planning, to avoid ending up with only books about cars with beaded edge tyres, or ten “and then we went to the next race” books..

Here is what I shall take:

 

1. Power and Glory by William Court

2. A History of Motor Racing 1894 -1908 by Gerald Rose

3. A Racing Driver’s World by Rudolph Caracciola

4. BRM Vol 1 by Doug Nye

5. Cooper Cars by Doug Nye

6. Motor Racing Circuits of Europe by Klementaski and Frostik’ (Didn’t see that one coming, did you?)

7. The French Grand Prix by David Hodges

8. The Monaco Grand Prix by David Hodges

9. To Hell and Back by Niki Lauda

10. The Perfect Car (Biography of John Barnard) by Nick Skeens

 

But I shall weep at leaving behind books by Jarrott and Jenkinson, Hill and Hill, Heal, Nye, Fangio, Edwardes, Ludvigsen, Southgate and many others.

[sabrejet]

Racing In The Rain    -    John Horsman

 

The Certain Sound    -    John Wyer

 

 

 

Yes!!! Racing in the Rain is my No.1 motorsport book. I don't think I have ten, but here are a few which I adore, so I'd have the two above, plus:

 

Can-Am Challenger: Peter Bryant

Time and Two Seats: Janos Wimpffen

To Finish First: Phil Kerr

Uphill Racers: Chris Mason

The Unfair Advantage: Mark Donohue

Motor Racing with Mercedes-Benz: George Monkhouse

 

I'm hoping that the impending Jim Hall book might be No.9. And No.10 looks like it will be (once I've finished reading the two volumes!) Reid Railton: Man of Speed by Karl Ludvigsen

[Michael Ferner]

I would flat out refuse to go on any long term trip with such restrictions on my baggage! That's just not on, darling, I want my money back!!

[1969BOAC500]

Ah, yes....Donohue's 'The Unfair Advantage'.....I treasure my original copy and it so very nearly made it onto my Desert Island list.

 

BTW, the problem with threads like this is that they end up costing me money ! I suddenly see titles that I 'need'.....

[jtremlett]

I couldn't help noticing, at the beginning of this thread, the late Pete Fenelon anticipating an eventual sighting of BRM volume 4 all the way back in March 2006...  

[DCapps]

Interesting how few of these books are concerned with topics on the Western side of the Atlantic....

[sabrejet]

Well in terms of my list, I'd say that Time and Two Seats; To Finish First; The Unfair Advantage and the Jim Hall book would all qualify as "..concerned with topics on the Western side of the Atlantic".

 

I'd include the Walt Hansgen book too (which I have; and have read in full), but for some reason I just don't really like it.

 

Guess I'm off the hook then...

[Cavalier53]

In my list you'll find several (auto)biographies, giving an insight not just in the racing life and achievements, but also society and the way people lived in a not so very distant past.

 

My present list of 10 of course only includes volumes i have in my bookshelves. Some titles/names are not complete as i'm presently limited in mobility (a nasty fall, as a spectator in Francorchamps of all places) and cannot check:

 

- Francorchamps 1948-1960, Delsaux

- Brands Hatch 25 years, Kettlewell

- Defense de mourir, Beltoise

- Archie and the Listers

- The Bugatti Queen (Helle-Nice)

- The Prince and I, Princess Bira

- Maserati 250F, Andy Hall

- Climax in Coventry

- Les ronds rouges arrivent, Chaillet [the marketing efforts in introducing Elf to France, the world and motor-racing, hand-in-hand with the rise of Matra)

- Ron Tauranac bio

 

Bubbling under would be Poetry in Motion, the Fangio "auto" bio (with his manager), G. Hill "auto" bio, Pit Pass (Goddard and a certain Nye, who seems to be a very prolific writer), and many more.

Unfortunately the Unfair Advantage i once ordered turned out not to be available, and Slotemaker De Legende is far to concise.

 

Nov. 1 the Wim Loos bio is due to be unveiled in Zandvoort, and i have great expectations. Most likely i cannot attend the presentation for reasons referred to above, but anticipate receipt of my copy in the mail.

 

Jan.

[Sterzo]

^ Archie and the Listers would have been my eleventh.

[nexfast]

 A slightly less british-centric list of my ten books to bring to a desert island:

 

- Time and Two Seats (Wimpffen)

- B.R.M (DCN), all volumes

- The Brothers Rodriguez (Jalife)

- Saloons, Bars and Boykies (Mills)

- Caribbean Cappers, the Cuban Grand Prix (Finn)

- Carrera Panamericana (Cimarosti)

- Historia de Passiones y Automovilismo in Argentina (Bertschi/Iacona)

- Gordini, Un Sorcier, Une Equipe (Huet)

- Gilles Villeneuve (Donaldson)

- La Scuderia Ferrari (Orsini/Zagari)

 

Not too far away from the top ten:  Historia del Automovilismo en el Circuito de Montjuich (del Arco), 1000 kilometer Rennen 53-83 (Mettler/Klinkel), Bathurst Cradle of Australian Motor Racing (Medley) and Can-Am(Lyons).

[Doug Nye]

Should my outboard motor fail, mid-Pacific, one book I would certainly like to have with me is 'Stand on It' by Stroker Ace...

 

Another would be 'Mercedes and Auto Racing in the Belle Epoque, 1895-1915' by Robert Dick.

 

A third - for rather more practical reasons - would be 'Survival Cookbook for Beginner' by Adam Jones...

 

DCN

 

[Dipster]

 

Should my outboard motor fail, mid-Pacific, one book I would certainly like to have with me is 'Stand on It' by Stroker Ace...

 

Another would be 'Mercedes and Auto Racing in the Belle Epoque, 1895-1915' by Robert Dick.

 

A third - for rather more practical reasons - would be 'Survival Cookbook for Beginner' by Adam Jones...

 

DCN

 

 

I would suggest you would be better off with "Sea Survival: A Manual" written by Dougal Robertson. Sadly out of print now but it has been credited with many survival stories by people who had the good fortune to read it before disaster struck them! 

[Doug Nye]

Good point - good advice...

 

DCN

[Sterzo]

Just our luck that the one book which would enable us to survive is out of print.

[Tom Glowacki]

Just our luck that the one book which would enable us to survive is out of print.

Stay on land and you will be alright.

[john winfield]

There are a few copies available second-hand at around £15-£20. Avoid those from Selkirk Books, R. Crusoe Island - they're water-stained, and delivery is slow.

Edited by john winfield, 04 November 2019 - 20:05.

[LittleChris]

Circus Life ( Don Cox )

Daring Drivers, Deadly Tracks ( Brian Redman/Jim Mullen)

When Sex was safe and Motor Racing Dangerous ( Paddy Driver as told to Richard Bucholz )

Parrish Times ( Steve Parrish )

Can Am Challenger ( Peter Bryant )

F Stops, Pit Stops, Laughter & Tears ( Bernard Cahier )

Mercedes Benz Grand Prix Racing 1934-1955 ( George Monkhouse )

Starting Grid to Chequered Flag ( Paul Frere )

Alf Francis - Racing Mechanic ( Alf Francis / Peter Lewis )

Hobbo ( David Hobbs )

 

Just outside the top ten:

 

BRM - A Mechanics Tales ( Dick Salmon )

Croz ( Graeme Crosby)

The Grand Prix Saboteurs ( Joe Saward )

The Lost Generation ( David Tremayne )

40 Years of Montjuich 1933 - 1975 (Javier Del Arco De Izco )

The Jim Russell Story ( Norman Greenaway )

Chasing the Title ( Nigel Roebuck )

[sabrejet]

At the risk of committing heresy, I didn't include Daring Drivers, Deadly Tracks in my listing as it just leaves me wanting more. Hopefully the greatest living Lancastrian has a much larger account of his life in the works....(2 door-stop volumes minimum)