13 replies to this topic

[Flaminiasupersport]

Dear Racing Enthusiasts,

A while ago I saw a wonderful film in Motorfilms Quarterly Vol. 14 of Hawthorn's TT GARAGE in Farnham. The first images show Mike'a arrival at the Garage in his (or Leslie's...) Alfa Romeo 8C (watch closely and you'll see his beloved Lancia Aprilia and Fiat Topolino too). At the end of the film Mike leaves and the license plate becomes visible... VGC 409.

Now what I'd like to know is the colour of that Alfa. Anyone has a clue here?

The reason why I ask this is because I discovered that Airfix has a model kit (1/32) of an Alfa Romeo 8C with almost the same license plate as Hawthorn's!!! (VGC 409 on Mike's Alfa and FGC 409 on the Airfix kit). This must be Hawthorn's car.

As a Hawthorn fan I must have this kit painted in the right colours. on the box the car is pale blue with red wheels which looks a bit silly to me... I went to the National Motor Museum too where I hoped to see this Alfa, but it wasn't there. Mike's Riley on the other hand is exposed, but it's a pity not much case is done for the British World Champion...

I've read somewhere this Alfa participated at Le Mans in the thirties and was bought by Leslie Hawthorn before the war.

So any info on Hawthorn's Alfa is welcome here!

[Dutchy]

I'm reasoanbly certain the Hawthorn Alfa was pale blue with red wheels.
Moons ago there was a magazine titled Veteran and Vintage and the Alfa was featured on the front cover looking delightfully scruffy in those colours. It can't have been published much more than a dozen years after the Hawthorn family ownership so I guess those colours were "correct".

JH

[Doug Nye]

That's correct Dutchy - that is the way the car survived for many years in the National Motor Museum here after having been donated to the institution together with Mike's Riley chassis as a permanent joint memorial to father Leslie and son Mike. However - times change - and Lord Montagu's managing Trust saw fit to sell the Alfa. I did not - and do not - approve, but it is true that it had not been very well cared for there.

DCN

[Patrick Italiano]

Having not Simon Moore's book at hand for being sure to answer your question accurately, I can just send you the pics of two similar cars, now on display in two separate collections, one of which is the car you refer to - not sure which one.

However, I can confirm, as there are many colour pics, that the colour scheme proposed by Airfix is indeed the one displayed on that car at least during the 70s-80s. I built that kit many years ago with pics at hand. Not sure about the very shades of blue, however.

This one (#2311001) is in the Fred Simeone collection in the US:

http://www.alfabb.co...=1&d=1143646774

http://www.alfabb.co...=1&d=1143477393

The second one (#2311002) is in the Louwman collection in The Netherlands.


http://www.alfabb.co...=1&d=1141767875

http://www.alfabb.co...=1&d=1141767888

http://www.alfabb.co...=1&d=1141767899

[Patrick Italiano]

Hi Doug

You posted while I was tracking down the links.

Can you state which one it is, 01 or 02?

[GIGLEUX]

Hawthorn's Alfa was 2311204, last of 1933 third serie of Le Mans cars.
The car was owned by Pierre-Louis Dreyfus who finished second at the 1935 Le Mans race; his co-driver was Henri Stoffel.
PLD, who raced under the pseudonym "Heldé", sold the car in 1938. It went in UK to Monza Service (Cyril Hawley and Buddy Featherstonehaugh). Then Russell-Roberts who had it registred FGC409, returned to Hawley and bought by Leslie Hawthorn after the war. The car was red and it seems that it was L.Hawthorn who had it painted blue. Hawthorn's family had it on loan at the Montagu Museum. During the 90s it was sold to Mexican Carlos Hank and then to Arturo Keller. (From the Legendary 2.3 by Simon Moore).

[Patrick Italiano]

Thanks Jean-Maurice.

This shows how risky it can be to try to answer without the sources at hand...

[GIGLEUX]

The car at the 1996 Automobiles Classiques et Louis Vuitton Concours at Bagatelle (Paris). It is of a darker blue than when in UK.

[D-Type]

I think there is or was an issue regarding the shape of the tail of the 'Hawthorn' car some years ago- it was non-original or unique or something like that. I can't remember the details, but I vaguely recall that Motor Sport had a picture of the tails of the Hawthorn car and another one. Of course the difference may well have been restored away by now. does anyone know the details?

[Mal9444]

Originally posted by Doug Nye
That's correct Dutchy - that is the way the car survived for many years in the National Motor Museum here after having been donated to the institution together with Mike's Riley chassis as a permanent joint memorial to father Leslie and son Mike. However - times change - and Lord Montagu's managing Trust saw fit to sell the Alfa. I did not - and do not - approve, but it is true that it had not been very well cared for there.

DCN

I know the National Motor Museum quite well - it's about 7 miles form where I live in Lymington, and know the guy who used to be MD of the whole operation very well. Indeed, he is a close friend. I often used to complain to him about the lack of imagination evident in the dispay of the cars: it is too much like a large, well lit garage. One of my suggestions was, for example, that on many cars they could replace the driver's door (or indeed both doors on one side) with a transparent perspex door or even simple inspection panel, the better to give the casual visitor the chance to look inside the car: I'm speaking here of just the routine, but always fascinating, 'ordinary' cars which make up the majority of the exhibits. My complaints never struck a chord - largely, I suspect, because he was a tourist industry man, rather than a motoring enthusiast. In fact, many of the cars there are neither well cared for nor very well nor imaginatively presented - again, I suspect, becuase the purpose of the place now is to bring revenue into the Beaulieu Estates operation rather than to act as a serious national archive and resource for motoring enthusiasts.

They had a W196 there for a while (not the Moss Aintree car) but sold it also, I believe. Don't know to whom - but hopefully to someone who would better appreciate what they had.

No idea how the treat serious researchers - no doubt DCN or some of the other professionals on TNF would know - but for the rest of us, I fear we are seen as but grockles. Which is probably fair enough. That's what most of us are, I suppose.

[Doug Nye]

They are on the whole VERY accommodating and very good to researchers, both professional and amateur - and the periodical/book library and photo/film collection staff are in my albeit fairly limited experience very friendly and efficient.

[Mal9444]

I am delighted to hear it - as shall be my close friend, who maintains a friendly interest in the place.

[Flaminiasupersport]

Many thanks for these wonderful informations! Incredible how the internet can be helpful! Again thanks to all and to DCN I wish him all the best with the magnificent DVD's!

Now I know I can paint the model in blue! Need to get more details about the tail. In the movie you can clearly see the spare wheels!

I was astonished to read the Museum SOLD this car... How on earth is this possible???

[dretceterini]

I believe the original version of the Scalextric slot racer was based on this car; French blue with red wheels...