41 replies to this topic

[FSS]

I have heard so many people saying this guy is sooooo good and fast, i confess i am impressed.
Does anyone know him or at least have seen him racing before F1? Is/was him thaaaaat good?

So we have

Kubica
Kimi
Alonso
Christijan
Nico
JPM
Webber
Button
MS
Trulli



Now we need

Bordais
João Paulo Oliveira
L Hamilton
A Carrol
NPjr (mkt)
Premat
Lapierre
Kovalainem
Davidson
Rossi (mkt)


That would be the best and most talented F1 grid since 81

[Group B]

I'm a little curious to know why JT and MW get in ahead of RS and NH

[carbonfibre]

He almost won the DTM title but he screwed himself by flirting with F1 (which pissed off Norbert) and cracking under pressure. In 2000 (i believe) he was driving F3000 and got trashed by Mark Webber.

I don't think he's a great driver. For example when Doornbos came into the Minardi last year in the middle of the season he was immediatly as fast as Albers and beated him in the races.

Albers is a good driver but nothing great.

[FSS]

Group B,

NH should be there too IMO. I just forgot.

Trulli IMO is way better than RS and waaaaaaaay faster.




carbonfibre,

Tks. That s why i am asking. I heard so many things about him from F3 drivers and one South A F3 team owner and found it very strange cause i have the same opinion on him as u do. Today i just read that the team wants CA for the next 2 years!!!!!!!!

[carbonfibre]

Well Albers did sign a contract that gave him at least 1 year (2006) with a option for 2007. The team is considering the take the 2007 option. But that's what his manager is saying, and you can't trust that guy.

The only thing he has won so far was the 1999 german F3 championship (and maybe some karting stuff).

[Mat]

I dotn rate him. Plus he seems to be a bit of a prima dona.

Id rate Doornbos ahead of Albers.

[Mauseri]

Originally posted by FSS
Trulli IMO is way better than RS and waaaaaaaay faster.

Where JT makes 1 fast lap and 50 slow laps - RS makes 51 medium fast laps.

[servellen]

Originally posted by Mat
I dotn rate him. Plus he seems to be a bit of a prima dona.

Id rate Doornbos ahead of Albers.

Here in Holland we hear alot of detailed analyses of Albers and Doornbos, especially since they didnt get along last year at Minardi; they trashed each other via the press and ignored each other in the pit lane and at promotion events.

Rating them is hard since they havent been in good cars, but Minardi confirmed to Dutch SBS6 reporters that Albers has the better and more consistant lap times, in comparison to Doorbos. Albers however has a tendency to whine, but he's an aggressive ambitious driver, i rate him much better than Jos Verstappen, but that aint hard... .Doorbos seems to be more politically inclined that Albers, that was the complaint at Minardi, that when Albers and the crew were discussing important issues, Doorbos was still talking to the media making himself look good...

For now Alonso and Kimi seem to be the cream of the new crop...

[stalix]

C

[Haddock]

I think Albers is just exposing how mediocre Tiago Monteiro is. Something that was masked by a rather wayward Narain Karthikayen last year. He's an alright journeyman F1 driver, but there are plenty of better guys knocking on the door right now.

[carbonfibre]

Originally posted by servellen




Here in Holland we hear alot of detailed analyses of Albers and Doornbos, especially since they didnt get along last year at Minardi; they trashed each other via the press and ignored each other in the pit lane and at promotion events.

Rating them is hard since they havent been in good cars, but Minardi confirmed to Dutch SBS6 reporters that Albers has the better and more consistant lap times, in comparison to Doorbos. Albers however has a tendency to whine, but he's an aggressive ambitious driver, i rate him much better than Jos Verstappen, but that aint hard... .Doorbos seems to be more politically inclined that Albers, that was the complaint at Minardi, that when Albers and the crew were discussing important issues, Doorbos was still talking to the media making himself look good...

For now Alonso and Kimi seem to be the cream of the new crop...

I think the difference is that Doornbos is also very good with the press. Unlike Albers who can't get along with them (as they get critical about him).

Albers was for example the one who started to talk bad about Doornbos because some reporters could find it better with Robert.

I think they are both pretty equally matched but Doornbos just is far better for PR stuff, which is also a requirement these days.

[angst]

Originally posted by carbonfibre
I think the difference is that Doornbos is also very good with the press. Unlike Albers who can't get along with them (as they get critical about him).

Albers was for example the one who started to talk bad about Doornbos because some reporters could find it better with Robert.

I think they are both pretty equally matched but Doornbos just is far better for PR stuff, which is also a requirement these days.

From the post that you quoted, it seems that he is only better at the PR stuff, which was rather the point. While Albers was working on technical matters with the team, Doornbos was working his PR magic. Depends upon how you rate drivers - personally I prefer the Albers approach, but in today's image above function F1 Doornbos will probably win out.

[carbonfibre]

Albers said that Doornbos was just doing his PR stuff not someone from the team, while later Paul Stoddart thanked Doornbos for his work with the team etc not even mentioning Albers....

Seems a bit strange doesnt it?;)

[angst]

Originally posted by carbonfibre
Albers said that Doornbos was just doing his PR stuff not someone from the team, while later Paul Stoddart thanked Doornbos for his work with the team etc not even mentioning Albers....

Seems a bit strange doesnt it?;)

And yet every snippet that we've heard from the engineers seem to rate Albers higher than Doornbos - which is also relevant.

[MortenF1]

To me, it boils down to the fact that Doornbos was more or less matching Albers straight away last year, which suggest he's got more potential.

[carbonfibre]

Originally posted by race addicted
To me, it boils down to the fact that Doornbos was more or less matching Albers straight away last year, which suggest he's got more potential.

Yep that ofcourse wasnt what Albers expected and that's why he started to be so hostile against Robert.

[HoldenRT]

Where JT makes 1 fast lap and 50 slow laps - RS makes 51 medium fast laps.

If you wanted to make a broad statement to summarise it that's probably a fair one.

But if you look a bit deeper, they are very close but both are very sensative to having the car the way they like it, a bit like JPM and Fisi.

When Trulli had the car design and setup to his liking he was a front runner in some races, but a road block in others. Always ahead of Ralf tho.

At the end of the season after the new chassis and suspension Trulli struggled and Ralf outpaced him with the new car suiting Ralf.

So both drivers are good with a car that suits them but poor when it doesn't. Very similar and the points totals at the end of 05 proves that. But when both are driving at their best I think Trulli might be a little better imo. It's very close though, like you said, Trulli doing alot of slow laps falling back, and Ralf doing medium laps gaining on him.

When the car doesn't suit them, both are average at best. Maybe Trulli a bit worse in that situation.

[Chubby_Deuce]

Originally posted by Mat
Plus he seems to be a bit of a prima dona.

Yep.

I got the impression that he's a good guy about 95% of the time. However, catch him at the wrong time and you'll feel his wrath, which appears to be quite bad for a guy so small, and so Dutch. Watching him get fitted for his seat in the PS05 provided an interesting chance to observe him. One moment he was chatting on his phone. The next he was slamming the phone shut after what I can only guess was a Dutch "**** YOU!". Once he calmed down he went straight into turning the wheel back and forth, and making engine noises while sitting in the car. A bit like a kid, I suppose.

Probably his greatest asset to some would be his ability to take out M. Schumacher.;)

[Dudley]

Christijan Albers seems to be another great one

Did you mean to post this thread 2 weeks ago?

[Keffo]

Originally posted by race addicted
To me, it boils down to the fact that Doornbos was more or less matching Albers straight away last year, which suggest he's got more potential.

But in a car which is not that good, it's easier to drive on the limit. Although Albers was much faster than Friesacher, for sure in the races.

[Scorg]

Originally posted by Keffo
But in a car which is not that good, it's easier to drive on the limit. Although Albers was much faster than Friesacher, for sure in the races.

Not always, even a slow car can be a pig to drive on the limit. This was something commented about the EJ14, when well ballanced it was good to drive, but extremly slow, The only way they got any sort of pace from it was with it being extremely nervious at its limit, where Nick was able to cope much better then Pants could.

[Jerome]

Well, I can say one thing about Albers, and that he is a learner. By which I mean that, at a certain level, drivers stop learning, and Albers doesn't.

Yes, he was thrashed by Webber in F3000. He really sucked during his first F1 tests. But since then he has really improved, and improved again. That is something special.

The same thing goes for Doornbos. A late step into racing, but he keeps improving. The question is when they will bounce against the Peter Principle. Albers and Doornbos are not Alonso or Raikkonen, but they might very well be as good as a Gerhard Berger, Riccardo Patrese or Nigel Mansell...

[ivanalesi]

Nigel Mansell? some 30 wins?
The guy is good, but I was expecting that he would be quite near or in front of Monteiro... He did a great job in DTM, some bad management from his side though, I wasnt very happy with certain moves both - on and off the track, but he did well! Also he's a damn good racer, this Midland pairing is like last years:)
If I have to choose between him and Paffet in DTM - it's Paffet, in F1 - it will be probably Albers if Gary's testing performance is anything to go by that early.

[servellen]

Everyone's got an oppinion, time will tell. Hard to say anything now...

[Jerome]

Well, Nigel was considered not a big talent well into the late eighties. Keke Rosberg didn't think much of him, nor did many of his collegues... The funny thing is, I liked Mansell back then. Untill he started winning races, and changed into a unbearable whiner...

I don't think Nigel Mansell has more driving talent than Christijan Albers, no. If the latter has the talent for getting grease on the axle for furthering his own career, remains to be seen.

[capture_the_flag]

Originally posted by FSS
I have heard so many people saying this guy is sooooo good and fast, i confess i am impressed.
Does anyone know him or at least have seen him racing before F1? Is/was him thaaaaat good?

So we have

Kubica
Kimi
Alonso
Christijan
Nico
JPM
Webber
Button
MS
Trulli



Now we need

Bordais
João Paulo Oliveira
L Hamilton
A Carrol
NPjr (mkt)
Premat
Lapierre
Kovalainem
Davidson
Rossi (mkt)


That would be the best and most talented F1 grid since 81

Your post doesn't make any sense. Sorry.

[ivanalesi]

but he tried so hard, he put MS in it!
Jerome, this whiner won a title and fought for it for many years, he also was responsible to put a team like Williams together along with Patrick and Frank. Just have some respect for the guy... you dont judge one's talent or abilities on how much he's whining, if so team bosses would paste the lips of their drivers.

[FSS]

I am sorry, i forgot to put the "marketing"thing right after MS's name.

[miniman]

This whole thread still doesn't make any sense....

I don't see Albers convincingly beating his teammate.

[Jerome]

Sorry, like I said, I liked Mansell... right till he became famous. And he became the most irritating whiner I've seen in the world of sports. He didn't built up Williams, didn't bring together Frank and Patrick Head. Williams has started f1 teams since the early seventies, his incredible perseverance and imagination finally paid due when he managed to get the Saudi's to sponsor his team in 1977, and he got in touch with Patrick Head. From there on he could not be stopped anymore...

Mansell had nothing to do with the rise of Williams, their wc's in 1980, 1982, and soforth were achievements without him, or could have been achieved without him.

Look, I am not saying Mansell was a bad driver. He wasn't, isn't. But drive wise he was no better than Damon Hill, De Angelis, Patrese, and currently Albers. Gods of motorracing all of them, but a notch under the Clarks, Stewarts, Lauda's and Prosts of this world.

Only Mansell doesn't know that...

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Jerome.Inen
Look, I am not saying Mansell was a bad driver. He wasn't, isn't. But drive wise he was no better than Damon Hill, De Angelis, Patrese, and currently Albers.

Um, who won more races with Williams? Mansell or Patrese?

[Jerome]

Ensign, we can go over this untill the cows come home. I don't think Mansell was the best driver Williams ever had, even though Mansell was their 'winningest' driver.

If you want my rating (of men who became Worldchampions at Williams) I would say:

1. A. Jones (should have won in 1979 as well)
2. Keke Rosberg (was royally screwed by the turbo era, otherwise...ho hum)
3. Nelson Piquet (just as cunning as ever)
4. Damon Hill/Villeneuve
5. Alain Prost
6.Nigel Mansell

Drivers who drove for Williams, and not became WC at that team (!)

1. Aerton Senna
2. Carlos Reuteman
3. Thierry Boutsen (I rate above Mansell)
4. Riccardo Patrese (I rate equal to Mansell)

Why is Alain Prost so low on the toplist? Because he should not have made that comeback in that far too superior car. Just like Mansell should not have won the WC with another far too superior car. Would he have won in 1986 (with the blown tyre in Adelaide, remember?) I would have been very gracious about him. Perhaps...

I come back to the topic: I think that Albers is not worse than Boutsen, Patrese and Mansell... but ofcourse I could be very wrong about it. Because I am someone looking from the outside in...

[Stephan]

Originally posted by Jerome.Inen
)

Why is Alain Prost so low on the toplist? Because he should not have made that comeback in that far too superior car. Just like Mansell should not have won the WC with another far too superior car. Would he have won in 1986 (with the blown tyre in Adelaide, remember?) I would have been very gracious about him. Perhaps...

Well, I would have named absolute God if had won in 1986 WITH the blown tire ;)

But seriously, I think it is strange that you don't rate Mansell and Prost since they won in a superior car. What should they have done then? Quit after the first race?

On-topic: Albers seems to be a decent driver, not a special one. Probably won't have a very long or succesfull career in F1.

[ensign14]

Originally posted by Jerome.Inen
Ensign, we can go over this untill the cows come home. I don't think Mansell was the best driver Williams ever had, even though Mansell was their 'winningest' driver.

Not the point. You equated Mansell with Patrese, but Mansell won something like ten times the races that Riccardo did when they were team-mates. No way were they on a level.

[Jerome]

Ofcourse not, they had every right and duty to drive that car, and win. I would not forbid them to drive such a superior car... I just thought it strange that Prost came back for it. What was the challenge for him? I remember that season very well, and it's the same as in 1983... Alain won many Grand Prix, but he seemed utterly joyless...

I am diverting. Prost had every right to win that year, but it just doesn't mean anything to me. I feel no admiration for that championship, while I feel a lot for admiration for Prost as a person and his wc's of 1985, 1986, and ooh, I am guessing now, 88?

As for Mansell, he won the WC in a superior car, fine, good luck with it. I just rate the championship of Damon Hill more, and that of Rosberg and that of Jones, and that of Piquet....

On topic: At the moment Albers is no more than a decent driver. But, again, if he keeps developing (and keeps selfcritique, very important, dear Nigell), he could be more than that. Remember four years agon he was Mazzacane like in a F1 car...

[ivanalesi]

Prost was offered a championship on the table, and he knew that he would be in front of Senna with wins and WDCs;)
By "put the team together" for Mansell I mean that setup wise/engineer's working method - he developed the car with them. I.e. Patrick said that after his 1st test for Williams for 91 season, they tweaked the suspension with Nigel like he wanted it and he immediately went 2 secs. faster than Patrese or Boutsen had managed before!

[Frans]

"Albers a great one"....Whahahahahaa.

maybe in his own computer game. Albers cannot bring results under pressure. He's a whinner and way less talented than Doornbos. That's for sure.

I'd say that Doornbos is in a better place now than Albers is in F1. And that Doornbos will have better statistics in this sport 2 years from now than Albers will have.

And since Jos left F1, somehow they made it up with 2 drivers from the same little Frog-country.... laughable.

[Jerome]

Quite possibly I am underestimating Nigel Mansell... but that is my prerogative, and his big mouths fault!

And Frans, like Niki Lauda said about Peterson: 'The biggest talent, who just didn't seem to get his ass into the right car at the right moment.'

We can only wait how Doornbos & Albers fare in that last department...

[Ilaya]

Originally posted by Frans
[BAnd since Jos left F1, somehow they made it up with 2 drivers from the same little Frog-country.... laughable. [/B]

Please tell us who is this Jos moron you keep bringing up?

[nezza]

Originally posted by Jerome.Inen
At the moment Albers is no more than a decent driver. But, again, if he keeps developing (and keeps selfcritique, very important, dear Nigell), he could be more than that. Remember four years agon he was Mazzacane like in a F1 car...

Generally agree with that. I too have been very impressed with his rate of improvement. If that carries on he will desevre a place in a midfield team in a couple of seasons time.

Whether he will be as good as Mansell is far too early to say considering we wish to assess a driver who has only driven for tailend teams. However it will be unlikely as Mansell is one of the most sucessful drivers ever in F1. There have been far far more less successful drivers in F1 than Mansell than there have been drivers who have had equal or more success than Mansell (if that makes sense).

By the way FSS's opening thread about the best and most talented grid since 1981 is absolutely laughable.

[Ilaya]

Originally posted by Frans
He's a [B]whinner and way less talented than Doornbos. That's for sure.

I'd say that Doornbos is in a better place now than Albers is in F1. And that Doornbos will have better statistics in this sport 2 years from now than Albers will have.

And since Jos left F1, somehow they made it up with 2 drivers from the same little Frog-country .... laughable. [/B]

Dear Frans,

please use the check-spelling button before you post.
Furthermore I can recommend you the book "I always get my sin" (by Maarten H. Rijkens)
In this book it is explained how Dutch people make an ass of themselves when using the English language, like you do so often in your posts.

"Frog-country", "chicken-skin" and "I do not want to fall with the door in house" are NOT sayings used in the English language and merely confirm you to be the ignorant "Limbo" that you seem to be.

cheers.................Ilaya

[Jerome]

Hmm... coming to think of it... is Frans in reality Jack Plooij?