10 replies to this topic

[Arturo Pereira]

Hi
I am part of a team that has just started to work on 2 Grand Prix Legends mods: the 1935 and 1937 seasons.

Grand Prix Legends is an F1 car racing simulator that originally let us race the 1967 F1 cars. After a hard work, and with the help of many Gentlemen, we have released a 1965 F1 mod 2 years ago. Since then we have been working with the 1969 F1 mod. Part 1 has been released some time ago and Part 2 (including High Wing cars and Low wing cars) will be released this next Friday.

So, and about the 1935 and 1937 seasons, we have been doing some research on the many sources available about those seasons, including the amazing Leif Snellmann site of course. Grand Prix Legends lets us assign 7 slots for 7 cars/teams for each season. At the moment, we have defined to include the 1935 Auto Union Type B and the Mercedes W25B, and for the 1937 season, the Auto Union Type C and the Mercedes W125. According to the sources we have checked, the rest of the field was not competitive, with the notable exception of the 1935 Alfa Romeo P3 that won the 1935 German GP.

At this point, I think that it would be ok to ask for the opinions of the many members of this forum that showed interest and knowledge about the Grand Prix cars era. So my question would be which cars, apart from the already mentions, you would include to compete the 7 slots ? This means to define 5 additional cars for each season.

Thanks in advance for your opinions and thoughts

[Rob G]

That's fantastic news, Arturo!

For 1935 I'd choose the Alfa Romeo Tipo B, the Maserati 8CM and 6C-34, the Bugatti T59, and the ERA B. For 1937 my picks would be the Alfa Romeo 12C-36 and 8C-35, the Maserati 8CM and 6C-34, and I guess the ERA again. The Maserati V8-RI would be a good addition too, but I'm not sure where it would fit best. For me the ERA is kind of iffy, since it was a voiturette that took part in a few Grands Prix, but I included it for the sake of variety.

[Kvadrat]

I think ERAs never raced in scratch races against all other cars from Rob's list because they were in 1500cc class.

[Rob29]

Originally posted by Kvadrat
I think ERAs never raced in scratch races against all other cars from Rob's list because they were in 1500cc class.

They certainly did in the Donington GPs.

[Patrick Italiano]

For the 1937 season, the new Alfa Romeo 12C-37 proved not competitive, but arguably one of the nicest shapes.





Key feature: tricky handling...

[Arturo Pereira]

HI guys
Thanks for your answers

We faced this situation when we started planning these mods. In 1935 and in 1937 Mercedes and Auto Union clearly dominated the scene. In 1937 their domination was absolute, and in 1935 only Alfa Romeo could take a victory away form the German teams.

From the 7 races that made the 1935 European Championship, Mercedes won 5, Auto Union 1 and Alfa Romeo 1. So there is no question about the Alfa Romeo P3B must be included.

From the other cars that participated in other races, Alfa Romeo (again with the TypeB/P3 and in one case with the 8C-35) won the majority of the events, with the Bugattis Type 59 and 51A coming next. So the Bugatti Type 59 could be another candidate to be included, also because it participated in some GP events.

So we have the Auto Union Type B, the Mercedes W25B, the Alfa Romeo P3/Type B and the Bugatti Type 59 for the moment.

Maserati was not competitive by then, though many Maseratis 8CM, 6C-34 and even the V8-RI raced in many of the EC events. I guess the ERA B was outclassed, even for these Maseratis.

About the 1937 cars, Rob, why the Alfa Romeo 8C-35 and not the 3724cc engined 6C-34 ??

One information we should take on account is that designing a mod for GPL implies the need to define 19 real life cars (for 7 slots) and 19 drivers to make the Computer opponents. I started checking the 1935 and 1937 Points Standings and selected the 1st 19 drivers and the cars they drove most frequently in some cases. FOr 1935 you have 5 Alfa Romeos, 4 Auto Union Type B, 3 Bugattis Type 59, 4 Mercedes W25 and 1 Maserati 6C-34, 1 8CM and 1 V8-RI, according to this list

1 Nuvolari, Tazio I Alfa Romeo Type B
2 Dreyfus, Rene F Alfa Romeo Type B
3 Chiron, Louis F Alfa Romeo Type B
4 Sommer, Raymond F Alfa Romeo Type B
5 Lehoux, Marcel F Alfa Romeo Type B
6 Stuck, Hans D Auto Union Type B
7 Rosemeyer, Bernd D Auto Union Type B
8 Varzi, Achille I Auto Union Type B
9 Pietsch, Paul D Auto Union Type B
10 Taruffi, Piero I Bugatti Type 59
11 Benoist, Robert F Bugatti Type 59
12 Wimille, Jean Pierre F Bugatti Type 59
13 Zehender, Goffredo I Maserati 6C-34
14 Balestrero, Renato I Maserati 8CM
15 Étancelin, Philippe F Maserati V8-RI
16 Caracciola, Rudolf D Mercedes-Benz W25B
17 Fagioli, Luigi I Mercedes-Benz W25B
18 von Brauchitsch, Manfred D Mercedes-Benz W25B
19 Lang, Hermann D Mercedes-Benz W25B


And these are the car choices for the moment.

Same procedure I follow with the 1937 season, but here I have found that the list shows only 5 cars in the 1st 19 positions

1 Belmondo, Vittorio I Alfa Romeo 12C 36
2 Farina, Giuseppe I Alfa Romeo 12C 36
3 Rüesch, Hans CH Alfa Romeo 12C 36
4 Sommer, Raymond F Alfa Romeo 12C 36
5 Trossi, Carlo I Alfa Romeo 12C 36
6 Nuvolari, Tazio I Alfa Romeo/Auto Union 12C 36
7 Pietsch, Paul D Maserati 6C-34
8 Soffietti, Luigi I Maserati 6C-34
9 Biondetti, Clemente I Maserati/Alfa Romeo 6C-34
10 Hartmann, Lazlo H Maserati 8CM
11 Hasse, Rudolf D Auto Union Type C
12 Müller, Hermann D Auto Union Type C
13 Rosemeyer, Bernd D Auto Union Type C
14 Stuck, Hans D Auto Union Type C
15 Caracciola, Rudolf D Mercedes-Benz W125
16 Kautz, Christian CH Mercedes-Benz W125
17 Lang, Hermann D Mercedes-Benz W125
18 Seaman, Richard GB Mercedes-Benz W125
19 von Brauchitsch, Manfred D Mercedes-Benz W125


To complete the 7 slots for 1937 I thought about including both Auto Union and Mercedes Streamliners, but this choice would mean to leave out of the list the Alfa Romeo Bi-motore. If we want to include the Bi-Motore, then we could move 2 drivers from the 12C-36 to the Bi-Motore, and to move all the Maserati drivers to 6C-34s OR to 8CMs.

According to this, there is no room for the ERAs in 1937.

[Arturo Pereira]

And btw, we will include a complete set of layout menus for both mods. I have many pictures of the Auto Unions, Mercedes and Alfas, but I have found only a few of them for the Maseratis and Bugattis. We would need some of them, with a max resolution of about 640x480 (standard GPL menu resolution). Even smaller pictures would help

Thanks for the Alfa Pictures !!! I have the lower one though not the other !!!

[Patrick Italiano]

Thanks for the Alfa Pictures !!! I have the lower one though not the other !!!

If you need further Alfa Romeo pictures, send me an email or PM with your wish list, and I'll make available to you what I have in digital form.

But I don' t understand your intention to include the Bimotore in 1937. Is it a typo of yours? The Bimotore raced in 1935 at Tripoli and AVUS, not in 1937. Then, one car had already been sold to Dobson in UK.

I agree that the 8C35 fits the 1935 seasons, albieit it was entered only late into the season. In 1936, both 8C35 and 12C36 were used, the smaller being sometimes more efficient than the 12C, while in 1937 it was more of a privateer effort, and if included they should be as such.

Thus I would say that for 1937, if you want to add an odd car to the German overall beaters, you could place, next to the Scuderia Ferrari 12C36 Alfas, an Alfa Corse team with the 12C37 for Guidotti, factory test driver (see Leif's page, 1937 part 5: Coppa Acerbo and Italian GP). Nuvolari and Farina drove as well the 12C37 at Pescara, but since they achieved better results in other races with the 1936 car, it's up to you to decide how you organize the teams, both cars can be historically OK for them.

Another correction, Nuvolari raced Auto Unions in 1938, not 1937. In 1937, he only made a short test run on the Auto Union, while the 12C37 was unsuccesfully sorted out. It was Varzi who raced Auto Unions in 1937.

In summary, as far as Alfas are concerned, I would have for 1935, Scuderia Ferrari entries for:

Nuvolari, Tazio I Alfa Romeo Type B
(he also drove the Bimotore, but is best featured on the Tipo B as he won the German GP with that one)
Dreyfus, Rene F Alfa Romeo Type B
Sommer, Raymond F Alfa Romeo Type B
Lehoux, Marcel F Alfa Romeo Type B

and Chiron, Louis F Alfa Romeo Bimotore - he finished 2nd at AvUS, it might "qualify" him for the game.

For 1937, Scuderia Ferrari entries for:

Farina, Giuseppe I Alfa Romeo 12C 36
Sommer, Raymond F Alfa Romeo 12C 36
Trossi, Carlo I Alfa Romeo 12C 36
Nuvolari, Tazio I Alfa Romeo 12C 36

Alfa Corse entry for :

Guidotti, Giovanbattista, I Alfa Romeo 12C 37

Private entries for:

1 Belmondo, Vittorio I Alfa Romeo 8C 35
3 Rüesch, Hans CH Alfa Romeo 8C 35

[Arturo Pereira]

Hi Patrick,
You are right about my mistake with the Bi.motore. My apologies. It seems I´ve been reading too much lately and got a brain fade when I wrote my post.

About Nuvolari racing for Auto Union in 1937, you are right. I took that list from Snellman´s Tables page but I did not meant to include Nuvolari driving for Auto Union but for Alfa Romeo.

Thank you very much for the suggestions. I will work later with a list for both years and will post it here !!

About the pictures, I will also email you most probably tonight.

Thank you very much again !!

[Arturo Pereira]

Oh, one question guys. I guess that Continental provided with tyres both Auto Union and Mercedes Teams in 1935 and also in 1937.

Anybody knows which tyres used the Alfas, Maseratis and Bugattis ?? Pirellis maybe ??

[Patrick Italiano]

Originally posted by Arturo Pereira
Oh, one question guys. I guess that Continental provided with tyres both Auto Union and Mercedes Teams in 1935 and also in 1937.

Anybody knows which tyres used the Alfas, Maseratis and Bugattis ?? Pirellis maybe ??

For 1935, Alfas were on Englebert.

I suggest you refer to this great thread for further detail infos on the 1935 German GP.