54 replies to this topic

[Cittànuova]

What do you think? ( please no comments about his haircut, body piercing and heavy chains)

Very fast, great skill, aggressive and he can overtake. But what's up with all the spins and crashes?
Is he too aggressive? Lack of confidence? Or bad luck?

Hopefully Liuzzi can continue to improve throughout the season.

[prty]

I think it's weird he didn't do better in F1: from karting to f3000 he was very very quick (lapping 1 sec per lap quicker than anyone else in the Montoya's karting competition for example). Maybe F1 is so different compared to everything else?

[zac510]

He is a bit confusing - you see him in real life and he has his hat on a 45degree angle or some weird looking facial hair, or some kind of trendy slouch going on and he just doesn't like he should be fast.

But as far as rookies go, he certainly hasn't been the worst by a long way. RBR must trust him a bit to give him the #1 car to test occasionally. Overall I've been impressed by him - hopefully he has a bit more time in the series to mature.

[Welsh]

Maybe he is another Felipe Massa?

The main question is, does he have the stamina or is he another Trulli/Fisichella (the sort that require their race engineer to gee em up during the race?).....?

[FNG]

I just haven't seen a single thing from this guy that has me sitting up and taking notice. I can't comment on anything else though, I can only speak about what I have seen in F1.

[KWSN - DSM]

He is the Quintessential F3000 Champion. Great in F3000, nothing special in F1. Look at hsi F3 record and some of the luster goes of him, and being great in GoKarts mean absolutely nothing when you make it to F1.

He is obviously not a talentless hack, but neither is he as far as I can see anything special. He is Massa, Fisichella, Trulli, Sato.

I found it very telling last season that Klien managed to unseat him from the 50/50 split of races that was planned, not that I ever thought that a particular good idea, but he did come with some sort of credentials, and the fact that Klien had a season headstart should not have been enough if Liuzzi was anything special.

He is an adequate driver and nothing else, but I actually think that all the Red Bull drivers, from the Red Bull racingdriver school are adequate and nothing else, I can not see any of them as being special.

[nezza]

Agree with much of what has been posted on here already. Adequate but could fulfill some potential if he concentrate more on his F1 career rather than his image or missing a test to install a bed (as apparently happened once).

To me he reminds me a mix between Massa and De Cesaris. Can look very quick and skillful moment but also looks like he could stick it in the hedge at any moment. Currently I am pessimistic whether he will be a successful F1 driver (race winner at least). However I actually think by moving into a more "seious" team than Red Bull/ STR may be hugely benefical for him as he would need to adjust his perceived application and work ethic for the better to survive.

[jcbc3]

I had a good hearty laugh reading Gerhard Berger putting his head so much up his arse that he named Liuzzi and Speed in the "next best 5 drivers" on Autosport.

From Autosport.com

..."If you cannot lay hands on a Michael Schumacher, Alonso or Raikkonen, then you must have some of the five young drivers of tomorrow, and Montoya is not among them in my opinion," said Berger.

"Those five, without order, are Kovalainen, Rosberg, Kubica, Speed and Liuzzi."...

[magicalonso]

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM
He is the Quintessential F3000 Champion. Great in F3000, nothing special in F1. Look at hsi F3 record and some of the luster goes of him, and being great in GoKarts mean absolutely nothing when you make it to F1.

He is obviously not a talentless hack, but neither is he as far as I can see anything special. He is Massa, Fisichella, Trulli, Sato.

So JT does not possess any special qualities in your opinion?
IMO Liuzzi is no where near JT and never will be.

[MortenF1]

Liuzzi - Very quick, but too mistake prone and ragged. Maybe he tries too hard to live up to the expectations. He should calm down a notch and take things more step by step.

[MortenF1]

Originally posted by jcbc3
I had a good hearty laugh reading Gerhard Berger putting his head so much up his arse that he named Liuzzi and Speed in the "next best 5 drivers" on Autosport.

From Autosport.com

Yeah, Speed doesn't belong there. But Liuzzi does I think.

[magicalonso]

Originally posted by jcbc3
I had a good hearty laugh reading Gerhard Berger putting his head so much up his arse that he named Liuzzi and Speed in the "next best 5 drivers" on Autosport.

From Autosport.com

Thanks for posting that!! Berger has always struck me as kind of clueless and this confirms it.

[MortenF1]

Originally posted by magicalonso


Thanks for posting that!! Berger has always struck me as kind of clueless and this confirms it.

That's unfair and just not right I believe .Including his two drivers is more or less a must, it's politically correct. But when it comes to Liuzzi, who's recieved praise from Berger before, it's probably genuine.

[KWSN - DSM]

Originally posted by magicalonso

So JT does not possess any special qualities in your opinion?
IMO Liuzzi is no where near JT and never will be.

Jarno Trulli is arguably the fastest driver over a single flying lap kind of qualifying, the exact system we have just moved away from. However that is his only claim to fame, he is NOT a good F1 driver, he at best the 11th best in the current field (I personally put him 14th), he his highly overrated.

I think that every single driver in F1 including the poor Ide are immensely talented drivers, and there really is not shame being among the 20 best drivers in the world, but both Trulli and Liuzzi are not in the top 10.

[F1Fanatic.co.uk]

Originally posted by race addicted

That's unfair and just not right I believe. Including his two drivers is more or less a must

Exactly. If he hadn't mentioned Speed & Liuzzi someone else would be on here saying, "oh isn't it terrible, he has no faith in his drivers."

Liuzzi hasn't made an impression on me one way or the other yet - the jury's still out as far as I'm concerned. He's easily got the measure of Speed - but Speed was patchy in GP2 and A1GP and you'd expect Liuzzi to be ahead.

It's interesting to compare the different personalities they present to the press. Martin Brundle has already described Speed as 'caustic' and he's by no means the first to criticise Speed's attitude. Liuzzi is way more media savvy - some elements of the press can't get enough of his flamboyance (case in point: article in this month's F1 Racing.)

[flyer72]

I think Liuzzi isn't really worth the trouble. Just the way he speaks make me wonder... So what has Liuzzi done to deserve being in F1? Well he tested for the first time a F1 car with BMW Williams in 2002 - and no he didn't impress that much. He didn't test in F1 until 2004 - when he managed to get an outing at Sauber (probably only because RedBull pushed Sauber). Liuzzi won F3000 in 2004 - but that was his second year in F3000, and the competition didn't look very strong (Doornboos was overall 3rd that year).

When I see Rosberg I see a star who is having the right attitude about F1 - he is young, smart and did well in junior races. He always raced pretty mature - and F1 needs that. It is too early to say if he is of Alonso, MS, Kimi quality - but so far everything looks good. I would keep my eye out for this guy!

Liuzzi? Waste of space IMO. Speed? Well - too early to tell, but IMO this guy looks more promising than Liuzzi.

Berger might want to put Rosberg, Kovalainen, Speed and Liuzzi as well as Kubica in the same range. I think it is way too early to tell if these guys are any good. Rosberg is the only one that looks promising so far - Kovalainen can't really be judged until he has at least half a season behind him in F1, Kubica suffers from the same problem.

Kovalainen is quick in testing compared to the regular drivers - Kubica is on the other hand not as fast.

Time will tell who will make it - but IMO Liuzzi isn't the man. Kovalainen and Rosberg should be watched out for - I think they are in a different league.

[Riker!]

Luzzi - Try hard wanne be.

[WACKO]

Tonio made it into the second qualifying leg three out of four times. That's quite an impressive record. In the races he has not been able to put his mark yet, but what results should you expect from the Toro Rosso's in the first place? They're doing a lot better than was anticipated when the team was initiated. The way I see it much to the credit of the V10's power build-up characteristics. But it's only four races into the season. Much is still new for the Toro Rosso guys, who still have to find their way as a team with, now a considerable amount of resources.

[magicalonso]

Originally posted by KWSN - DSM


Jarno Trulli is arguably the fastest driver over a single flying lap kind of qualifying, the exact system we have just moved away from. However that is his only claim to fame, he is NOT a good F1 driver, he at best the 11th best in the current field (I personally put him 14th), he his highly overrated.

I think that every single driver in F1 including the poor Ide are immensely talented drivers, and there really is not shame being among the 20 best drivers in the world, but both Trulli and Liuzzi are not in the top 10.

JT is among the quickest in any kind of qualification. It's not like his speed is limited to the one-lap-system..Didn't he in 2001 outqualify Frentzen 13-1 until HHF was sacked? Thus, JT possesses some special qualities (imense qualifying speed) while Liuzzi has not shown any yet (as you were saying more or less that neither JT nor Liuzzi are anything special).

[Mauseri]

the next montoya

[Imperial]

I definitely don't think Liuzzi has a lack of confidence, he positivley exudes it, whether it's false or not.

Too much is said of his clothing etc but he's not particularly outlandish by any means. He's still a label whore following trends, it's not like it's 1976 and The Sex Pistols just became F1 drivers instead of rock stars. He only looks different when put in the context of ultra-conservative F1.

As for his driving:

I have wondered whether him losing out on the planned 50:50 split last year was down to Red Bull not wanting to jeopardise the (relatively) good thing they had going with Klien by putting the even less experienced Liuzzi in the seat for half the season. Or ws it because Liuzzi's performances weren't good enough? Who knows at this stage?

I think, as he hasn't even raced for the equivalent of one season yet, that it's simply impossible to rate him yet.

[Blaka Da Uglav]

But then again, he made an astonishing pass on MS in Australia. He got some skillz I must admit, and I kinda like the man but the question is: will he develop in years to come? I really hope he does.

[f1pcr]

I'd really miss Tonio if he got cut. First, Vitantonio Liuzzi is an alltime classic name for a GP Driver. Second, if you peruse the photo gallery section, you'll notice Tonio is most likely to be shown with his car jacked over at some odd angle (big oversteer, pounding a kerb, tyre smoking spin) The only other drivers I can recall that got this kind of photo coverage were Ronnie Peterson and Gilles Villeneuve.

Granted, big tyre slip angles are not fast in today's F1, but the guy has entertainment value.

The real issue here is that Red Bull has no record of developing winning F1 talent. None of the Red Bull development drivers have achieved much, compared to say, Renault development drivers (Alonso, Webber, Kovalinen) Red Bull is great at hyping characters and attitude, but I don't see any winners coming out of their camp. It's also noticable that "Red Bull" drivers from other catergories are not given F1 tests. I think Mattias Ekstrom is worth a shot and if you're looking for Americans, there's Buddy Rice and AJ Allmendinger. Let's not forget that Red Bull "passed" on Kimi Raikkonen at Sauber and funded Enrique Bernoldi at Arrows instead.

They've had a good amount of time to dig up a gem, and it hasn't happened.

[PassWind]

Originally posted by jcbc3
I had a good hearty laugh reading Gerhard Berger putting his head so much up his arse that he named Liuzzi and Speed in the "next best 5 drivers" on Autosport.

From Autosport.com

Even in your included quote Berger did not say "the next 5 best" he said 5 young drivers, which in context means is that if he can't get the best his team needs to find a young driver who will become the best and in the group he selected 3 of the 5 I would say have a good chance.

Hence the aviodance of middle age drivers like JPM, JT, MW, GF, JB etc because he alluded to you either get the first rankers or get one who will and not prissy around with trying to get a potential that has less logevity in the sport up.

Good plan I think although I would have added Doornbos and Albers to the list although Albers is 27.

[Peter Perfect]

Originally posted by PassWind


Even in your included quote Berger did not say "the next 5 best" he said 5 young drivers, which in context means is that if he can't get the best his team needs to find a young driver who will become the best and in the group he selected 3 of the 5 I would say have a good chance.

Hence the aviodance of middle age drivers like JPM, JT, MW, GF, JB etc because he alluded to you either get the first rankers or get one who will and not prissy around with trying to get a potential that has less logevity in the sport up.

Good plan I think although I would have added Doornbos and Albers to the list although Albers is 27.

..and JB is 26

[CWeil]

I think he doesn't have enough time in the seat yet. No different than Kovalainen- needs a full season or two before anyone will really be able to tell. I think if he continues his progress, he will at least be a race winner. Perhaps more- but it is far to early to tell. He was fantastic in F3000 in his second year and peerless in karting, but only time will tell. He's still a big ragged and jittery, but time will smooth him out.

We shall see, but I certainly hope we will do very well.

[Mox]

Originally posted by jcbc3
I had a good hearty laugh reading Gerhard Berger putting his head so much up his arse that he named Liuzzi and Speed in the "next best 5 drivers" on Autosport.

Berger just talking up his investments.

Both Speed and Liuzzi currently "shine" based on the V10 engine advantage and should have no mention.

What about Montagny and Bourdais - no mention?
Nelsinho Piquet - no mention?
Bruno Senna - no mention?
No A1GP drivers mentioned?

I'd take any of the 4 mentioned, above Liuzzi and Speed any day. If not from a skills perspective, then surely from a business perspective. How much sponsorship interest would you generate from fielding Senna and Piquet? My guess is - quite a lot!

[PassWind]

Originally posted by Peter Perfect


..and JB is 26

And by the time he is released from Honda he will be 30.

[Alfisti]

Quick?? I have seen nothing to indicate special pace. He's not a hack but Klien appears at least as good and Speed seems to be going OK against him.

[Jackman]

Liuzzi is quick - it's just that he's driving for Minardi, which hides it. They're up to about Minardi 2001 standard now, but anyone who thinks they are Ferrari killers is kidding himself.

[Alfisti]

Originally posted by Jackman
Liuzzi is quick - it's just that he's driving for Minardi, which hides it. They're up to about Minardi 2001 standard now, but anyone who thinks they are Ferrari killers is kidding himself.

No i don't see it. Klien was stronger than him in Red Bull last year and this year Speed has been there with him ... i just don't see him flattening team mates liek he should.

[Cittànuova]

Originally posted by Alfisti


No i don't see it. Klien was stronger than him in Red Bull last year and this year Speed has been there with him ... i just don't see him flattening team mates liek he should.

Klien had 1 year of racing under his belt, Liuzzi had no experience. I still think VL did a great job (beat DC in his 1st race) with all the amount of pressure he had.

Race pace.. Speed isn't quite there with Liuzzi. In Imola Liuzzi spun ended up last and still beat him. Tonio is quicker than Speed.

I think Liuzzi has more potential, more speed than Klien.

[xype]

I think Liuzzi might have the same problem a lot of "young guns" that come into F1 have - too much pressure. Not pressure from the outsite, but pressure they put themselves under. It's the same with Massa, Sato and Klien, in my opinion. And the thing with that pressure and how they react is that even IF they calm down, who's to say they wont be messing up all the time once they are in a position to fight for the championship?

As opposite examples I would cite Alonso, Räikkönen, Rosberg and perhaps Button. When it comes to delivering, they are doing their job - no matter what car they are driving. Montiero and Albers sadly have shitty equipment, so one can't really judge them, but Montiero was very solid in his first season, too.

Still, the season is long and it will be interesting to watch the "unstable" guys develop. I doubt much will change, though, seeing how Massa has been given year after year to "calm down" and now that the pressure of driving a Ferrari is on, he's stuffing it.

[Topweasel]

Originally posted by Mox


Berger just talking up his investments.

Both Speed and Liuzzi currently "shine" based on the V10 engine advantage and should have no mention.

What about Montagny and Bourdais - no mention?
Nelsinho Piquet - no mention?
Bruno Senna - no mention?
No A1GP drivers mentioned?

I'd take any of the 4 mentioned, above Liuzzi and Speed any day. If not from a skills perspective, then surely from a business perspective. How much sponsorship interest would you generate from fielding Senna and Piquet? My guess is - quite a lot!

I don't see the advantage. They are 5 seconds a lap faster then last year with a less powerful engine then last year. It bugs me. The problem is V10 aside the did a massive change to their Chasis and are now a competitor on the Aero front where the V10 is only an issue because of the Aero change. If they weren't using RB1s no one would care about the extra 2 tenths the V10 has over the V8. Honestly with the ammount of Full throttle driving that all the teams are doing now it might be more important to have more HP for straits, instead of higher torque for turns. The F2004 did better with a V8 then with the Detuned V10.

[Alfisti]

I find the hype over Rosberg a tad tough to justify, the car was obviously really well hooked up in Bahrain but the last 2 races he's had a hard time of it. Has obvious potential though, that is agreed.

[PassWind]

Originally posted by Alfisti
I find the hype over Rosberg a tad tough to justify, the car was obviously really well hooked up in Bahrain but the last 2 races he's had a hard time of it. Has obvious potential though, that is agreed.

Still in his first race demonstating that he could use a good tool straight out of the box is pretty impressive, others might have choked due to the occassion, but I still think your right in some ways. It certainly showed us he has talent at least and bundles of it.

[Jackman]

Originally posted by Alfisti
No i don't see it. Klien was stronger than him in Red Bull last year and this year Speed has been there with him ... i just don't see him flattening team mates liek he should.

I'm not really sure why you think Klien was stronger than Liuzzi last year - Klien came in and did an okay job, and then Liuzzi got the car and had to start from the back, was first out in qualy, etc and still ended up ahead of DC, which Klien hadn't managed, and got a point in his first race. Liuzzi was thrown in at the deep end and performed well, but then didn't get another shot because Red Bull realised how much they were throwing away starting the guys from the back every time they swapped out.

As for Speed being up with Liuzzi - you must be kidding.

[Leyser]

Originally posted by xype
Still, the season is long and it will be interesting to watch the "unstable" guys develop. I doubt much will change, though, seeing how Massa has been given year after year to "calm down" and now that the pressure of driving a Ferrari is on, he's stuffing it.

If I were put to sleep for a year in late 2004 and awakened to discover that Massa will be driving a Ferrari in 2006, I'd have flown to Maranello and steralized Todt with a rusty screwdriver. I have been following F1 for 13 years and I can't recall such a merit-less driver getting a competitive seat. [/end rant]

And I would still take him over Liuzzi. Unimpressed by his driving, even less by his appearance.

[MortenF1]

Originally posted by Jackman
.... and then Liuzzi got the car and had to start from the back, was first out in qualy, etc and still ended up ahead of DC...

Which may have been because DC's chassis had developed more flexing than it should have. They discovered it had been like that in Bahrain and Imola. DC had complained a lot about the car those two weekends.
He got a new chassis for Spain and was right back in the points.

[Imperial]

Originally posted by Leyser


If I were put to sleep for a year in late 2004 and awakened to discover that Massa will be driving a Ferrari in 2006, I'd have flown to Maranello and steralized Todt with a rusty screwdriver. I have been following F1 for 13 years and I can't recall such a merit-less driver getting a competitive seat. [/end rant]

Maybe he got the Ferrari ride because he was one of the few seasoned drivers available for 2006 who would accept a one year contract with them?

I must admit to not knowing if Rubens left of his own accord or if Ferrari didn't want to renew him (doesn't appear to have been much ever said about that) and all the top guys were in the middle of contracts anyway.

Someone like Heidfeld (and I'm not suggesting he was offered the Ferrari gig) would have been in a position to say "No", because 3 years at BMW is going to turn out better (in all probability) than being Michael's bitch for one season before being hoofed to make way for Raikkonen (possibly).

Massa certainly isn't the best by any means (nor is he the worst there's ever been) but I would put his one year contract down to him being probably the most reasonable choice who was available this season (and come on, it's more reasonable than someone like Montiero or Sato) and was willing to accept a one year deal.

[wj_gibson]

Liuzzi's F3000 record is probably tempered by the fact that the field was pretty weak, certainly compared with the period 1997-2001. His nearest challenger, IIRC, was Toccacelo who had spent the preceding three years in the F3000 midfield. I don't think any of the other 2004 F3000 drivers have even made it to an irregular test drive in F1.

[CWeil]

Uh, Robert Doornbos?

[wj_gibson]

Well, granted, I forgot about Doornbos. But he's hardly the Heidfeld to Liuzzi's Montoya.

[tidytracks]

OK, I'll dip my oar in, but be warned I'm a big Liuzzi fan.

I honestly don't think there are many drivers in F1 right now who share Tonio's raw talent and ability, but I will agree that I've been as surprised as everyone else with what can only be described as patchy performances this season. I'm not even going to go into last year. That seat sharing was a bloody farce and did his career more harm than good. What a young driver needs in the formative stages of an F1 career is stability and continuity - considering Liuzzi got neither I think he fared very well.

Still, the one thing I can't shake is the fact that maybe Red Bull, and especially Toro Rosso, may not be the best environment to get the most out of him. Its all party party, fun fun fun. Tonio likes a good party, and I'm not saying he's not focussed, but look at when he's done best.... Karting, F3, F3000 - he had Peter Collins directing him, keeping his ego in check, nurturing his talent, pushing him forward and giving him a solid bollocking when he messed up. Somehow I just don't know if he's still getting that treatment.

I'll be honest, I don't know how much Collins is still allowed to have an impact on Liuzzi and his racing, but from the way Tonio's been racing this season it looks like something is missing.

Liuzzi's first F1 test was with Williams, a serious team who set Tonio very tough challenges and very difficult levels to achieve - but he didn;t just reach the standards they asked, he exceeded them.

Put Liuzzi in a McLaren, a Williams, a Ferrari, and I don't just mean the car but the atmosphere of the team, and I think you would see him shine. Really shine. And the funny thing is he'd still be him, he'd still be cool and funny - but when he got into that car, he'd have the direction he needed to make the best of it. He needs a Collins to focus him and draw the very best from that enormous pool of talent.

[Rob81]

OT
He must be "banned" for his dresses and his "yooyo-hey bro" way of talking (atleast when he speaks italian), good for Redbull marketing btw....
OT

he didnt show much anyway (driving skills).

[tidytracks]

Originally posted by Rob81
OT
He must be "banned" for his dresses and his "yooyo-hey bro" way of talking (atleast when he speaks italian), good for Redbull marketing btw....
OT

he didnt show much anyway (driving skills).

Thanks for that stunning insight.

[Cittànuova]

Not so impressive as of late, but still... he finished 10th in China which is good.

China- Berger quote: "Tonio had what we can call his "usual" spin, but otherwise everything went fine. "

[Juan Kerr]

Originally posted by Cittànuova
What do you think? ( please no comments about his haircut, body piercing and heavy chains)

Very fast, great skill, aggressive and he can overtake. But what's up with all the spins and crashes?
Is he too aggressive? Lack of confidence? Or bad luck?

Hopefully Liuzzi can continue to improve throughout the season.

I'd say Scott Speed is beginning to make Ferrari so-called next big thing look very average and he's a learner driver himself.
I rekon Kien was faster than Liuzzi and he's been booted out so what does that say ?

[Cittànuova]

I think Liuzzi has the speed and talent but there's something not working. The usual spin like Berger said has to end, he needs to keep the car on track front start to end. I still think he has more potential than Klien, Speed and Doornbos.

[kamix]

I also don't think Rosberg can be rated in front of him. Nico has not lived up to the hype at all this year, lets be honest apart from some fastest laps in Bahrain he has done nothing remotely 'wow' and is usually 0.5-2s slower than Webber whom most people here don't rate very highly. Luizzi has had a shite car and a shite teammate and there's no real way to judge his performance other than to say he too hasn't done anything 'wow'. Yes, he does throw his car off the track a lot of the time but I won't hold that against someone in a Minardi, I'll hold my judgement 'til he gets a better drive.