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8W for November the Guesses


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#1 Don Capps

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Posted 30 November 1999 - 21:51

Okay Gang,
Here are my guesses as to the answers for the November Game. Feel free to agree or disagree, comment or question them:

The Pre-War pix:
#1: Posted Image Whitney Straight, Maserati 8CM (chassis 3012), entrant Whitney Straight, GP de Monaco/ Monte Carlo, 2 April 1934; Straight fnished the race in 4th place.
#2: Posted Image Dick Seaman, Maserati V8Ri (chassis 4502), entrant Officine Alfieri Maserati, GP von Deutschland/ Nurburgring, 26 July 1936; 1st GP for Seaman who retired the V8Ri with brake problems, but then shared the 4CM of Carlo Trossi to finish in 8th place.

The 1950's pix:
#1: Posted Image No 24 Geoff Crossley, Alta GP (chassis GP2), entrant Geoffrey Crossley & no 23 Joe Kelly, Alta GP (chassis GP3), entrant Joseph Kelly, RAC British GP/ European GP/ Silverstone, 13 May 1950; the first round in the first FIA World Championship for Drivers.
#2: Posted Image Stuart Lewis-Evans, Connaught B Type (chassis B3), entrant Connaught Engineering, GP de Monaco/ Monte Carlo, 19 May 1957; the Toothpaste car, finished 4th.

The 1960's pix:
#1: Posted Image Mike Hailwood, Lotus 25-BRM P56 (chassis R3), entrant Reg Parnell (Racing), GP de Monaco/ Monte Carlo, 10 May 1964; Mike the Bike finished 6th, his first WDC points.
#2: Posted Image John Surtees, Ferrari 158 (chassis 0005), entrant North American Racing Team, US GP/ Watkins Glen, 4 October 1964; Surtees finishes 2nd in car in NART colors due to disagreement by Ferrari over homologation of the 250LM as a GT car.

The 1970's pix:
#1: Posted Image Carlos "Lole" Reutemann, Brabham BT34-Ford DFV (chassis 34/1), entrant Motor Racing Developments, GP de la Republica Argentina/ Buenos Aires, 23 January 1972; in his first WDC event Lole starts from the pole and finishes 7th for new owner B.C. Ecclestone.
#2: Posted Image Conny Andersson, Surtees TS19-Ford DFV (chassis 19/02), entrant Team Surtees, GP van Nederland/ Zandvoort, 29 August 1976; Swedish F3 ace subs for Brett Lunger, but retires with engine failure.

The 1980's pix:
#1: Posted Image Kevin Cogan, Tyrrell 010-Ford DFV (chassis 010/1), US GP West/ Long Beach, 15 March 1991; Cogan fails to qualify by 0.071 second becoming the first works Tyrrell driver to be a DNQ in the first race under the Concorde Agreement.
#2: Posted Image Geoff Lees, Theodore TR3-Ford DFV (chassis TY01), Canadian GP/ Montreal, 27 June 1982; Lees subs for the injured Jan Lammers, but taken out in the accident that results in the death of Paletti and does not participate in the restart.

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps




[This message has been edited by Don Capps (edited 11-30-1999).]

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#2 Marcel Schot

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Posted 01 December 1999 - 19:26

Almost the same as mine :)

Differences (from memory, as I don't have my entry here at work):
Pre-war #1 : Tim Birkin, Monaco 1933 ... the Blower Bentley man
60's #1 : Chris Amon, Mexico 1963

Especially the 60's one was my own private hell, more a question of
ruling out other possibilities than a matter of solving the picture.

#3 Racer.Demon

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Posted 01 December 1999 - 22:29

Something tells me I should not get involved in this debate... Well, not yet, anyway.

But are you sure that is Geoff Lees, Don?

I guess you will know by tomorrow night.

Mattijs


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#4 Don Capps

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Posted 01 December 1999 - 23:00

Am I sure that is Geoff Lees?

NO!

I left this one until the absolute last possible moment and then covered the waterfront with possible answers. Indeed, I started to skip this group, and this picture in particular, entirely, but felt I should at least try. I ended up guessing frankly, basing it on what I could make out of the helmet. It could have Argentina or France or Canada 1981 or several other races in 1982 or 1983; or it could have been Marc Surer. I really didn't devote a great deal of effort to it and with the clock ticking down just picked one, threw something together and sent it out.

I really don't get too excited about these 1980's pix since I really don't have my notes all that organized for these races. Only so many hours in a day. I tend to concentrate on the period from the 1920's through the 1970's and a little into the 1980's. Just the opposite of 99% of todays fans I imagine; they know the 90's and I am generally clueless since all the tracks and cars generally look the same to me.

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps




#5 Don Capps

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Posted 02 December 1999 - 06:35

I wonder if Mattijs is trying to tell me something? Hmmmmm, no trophy for Don it seems.

Hey, at least I tried! :) And, I am crazy enough to blab my errors in public. I almost went with Marc Surer at Canada in 1981, but then I looked at it again and wimped out and flipped a coin - literally - and it said no, so I tried again (and again) and decided on Canada 1982. Real science here!

But it is a Theodore so give me some credit. Well, it is a Teddy car, right?

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps




[This message has been edited by Don Capps (edited 12-01-1999).]

#6 Marcel Schot

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Posted 02 December 1999 - 06:47

Don : really, I was quite convinced too before Mattijs' remark :)

The Theodore, the very non-Surer helmet, the fitting story...real nasty one

#7 Racer.Demon

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Posted 02 December 1999 - 07:19

Don, if you want some credit for reading a name from an engine cover, I'll give you loads of it ;-)

That is one of those free points 8W always gives away. Just as we do with the Tyrrell decal right there on that No.4 car's nose.

Still, Lees and Canada fit both helmet and weather, so you shouldn't be ashamed of yourself. You weren't the only one... you'll be surprised that at least some of the 99% of today's fans who were playing the game were confused as well.

Not as much as with the picture you attribute to Straight, though! Being the kid on the 8W Team, I would have scored zero on that one myself. I just have Leif do that stuff - my credit is for persuading Leif to do it :-). Having said that, I'm on a pre-war crash course these days. My interest has truly been sparked, and some very old geezers are responsible for that...

Mattijs


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#8 Uncle Davy

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Posted 02 December 1999 - 08:57

I was proud of myself for getting Hailwood in the '60s. Surtees was the obvious one.

'80s- I think the Tyrrell is Bellof at either Detroit or Dallas, 1984.
The Theodore is Tommy Byrne at Hockenheim, 1982. His first opportunity at F1, DNQ.



#9 Keith Steele

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Posted 02 December 1999 - 09:19

I think Don got the tyrell correct. Do a search on Forix for Kevin Cogan and you'll see the very same pic. That was one I managed pretty quickly, the theodore on the other hand did me in after an hour and a half search.

#10 John B

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Posted 02 December 1999 - 09:59

I'm pretty sure Uncle Davy's right. It's definitely the 1982 car, which had a bunch of drivers over the year including Byrne for the last races. I think Canada qualifying was dry, so unless that picture was taken on the warm-up lap (since the car retired in the startline accident) there would not have been a wet photo opportunity.

The Michelob sponsership clinches it as Cogan's car, right? A one shot deal for the home GP?

The picture I found of Rick Mears testing Piquet's Brabham at Riverside would make a good one if allowed (it wasn't technically at a GP weekend)

[This message has been edited by John B (edited 12-02-1999).]

#11 Don Capps

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Posted 02 December 1999 - 10:48

Hey! I had so many choices on the Teddy car I simply picked like I said. I have so little in my notes on the Teddy team and the stuff that is in it is not very good, so it was just a guess.

Other than that I think did okay. One of these days I will actually get both 80's pix correct, but don't count on it!

Damn 80's are really a mystery to me in many ways since I dropped out of following F1 about then. I continued to get Autocourse each year, but that was about it. I lucked into some books a few years ago on the 80's period - the FOCA annuals and two other annuals - but I doubt that I have opened them more than a few times since I got them. I have the Autosports from about 1986 onward - earlier ones from 1974-79 and 1981-85 mostly being lost in moves.

I certainly am not a big fan of the era. This is when I really became a bigger NASCAR fan and a big CART & IMSA fan to be honest. F1 and Group C just didn't do anything for me.

As for the Teddy car, now I am really wondering who the hell it is? I started off confused with it and stayed that way.

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps




#12 Uncle Davy

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Posted 03 December 1999 - 08:12

I went back to my source materials for pictures re the Tyrrell, and damned if it wasn't an '81. My bad; rookie mistake.

#13 Don Capps

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Posted 03 December 1999 - 22:17

UD, I was delighted to actually get the Cogan one! Were it not for the Michelob sponsorship and the vague notion that I knew that I knew that car, I would have skipped the 80's altogether. BTW, my email is down at home, so if they sent out the answers I haven't seen them: what was the REAL answer for the Teddy car? I'll believe anything at this point! Why couldn't it have been a picture of Patrick Tambay in the 1981 Teddy Car with the funny front wing? That combo I found some pictures of and so had at least a fighting chance! :)

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps




[This message has been edited by Don Capps (edited 12-03-1999).]

#14 Racer.Demon

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Posted 04 December 1999 - 00:20

JohnB: the Mears-Brabham picture is a classic and has been on Autosport's Who? What? Where? When? section of their Xmas Quiz. (I can't remember what year.) It's a great picture and I remember not having the faintest clue back then! That quiz nearly killed me...

The Autosport Quiz revels in such obscure testing pics. At 8W however, we don't do that. We don't want you to do the impossible, so we only use pictures from World Championship events. Plus every picture needs to have enough clues to get the answer: track background, helmet colours, starting number, etc.

But if we get too many ties at the front, we could always introduce a Testing Decider, to sort the men from the boys... ;-)

Mattijs


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#15 John B

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Posted 04 December 1999 - 00:26

RacerDemon, it brought back memories of the few Riverside races I saw on TV. That was a nice track.

Don and rest, I'm not sure if it was intentional, but there's a connection between the subjects in the two 1980s pictures. I just came across a Forix picture of Cogan driving for Theodore!

#16 Don Capps

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Posted 04 December 1999 - 01:10

John, There is often an intentional or unintentional ;) link twix the 8W pix.

Mattijs, I doubt that many of us needed that Decider this month ;) :(. I wish you would bring it back and make it entirely random and perhaps just general odd-ball stuff from WDC, non-WDC, whatever, a fun thing and a Real head-stratcher. Just a thought.

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps




#17 Don Capps

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Posted 04 December 1999 - 01:12

Oh, yeah, John: did it look like an Indy Car? ;) In Texaco markings by any chance? :)

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Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps




#18 Racer.Demon

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Posted 04 December 1999 - 08:07

JohnB/Don: the Theodore/Cogan link was entirely unintentional, although we stumbled upon it when composing the answers. That RAM Williams picture you refer to was on our mind as *the* Cogan pic, but we shouldn't pick too many pictures that are on Forix already (thanks to our own man Rainer!) ;-)

OTOH, the link between pre-war pics is extremely intentional though (even in several ways), and so is that of the 50s and 60s! Yes, also in several ways...

Don: you want odd-ball? Just wait and see when the Millennium edition starts. You might see a return of that famed Decider. And it's in your ball park!


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