30 replies to this topic

[Dolph]

Hellos, was watching the last ALMS race on TV and the LMP2 Porches beat the LMP1 cars. How is that possible and what are the specificacions of both classes?

[LB]

The Porsche is a brand new factory effort more or less. In the LMP1 class you have an aging Audi R8 ( the R10 is in Europe for Le Mans at the moment) and the Dyson Lolas, the Zytek seems to have disappeared for the moment. I believe the Dyson Lolas are new this year they used to be based on the old MG chassis I believe, others will know more.

The specs are available online from the ACO site and the ALMS site.

[pio!pio!]

It's possible because it is a brand new P2 car that is fully utilizing the rules, versus an old P1 car that is built to old rules, and has restrictions placed on it

R8 vs RS Spyder, the Spyder won

but the new R10 is faster than the RS Spyder, thus restoring the order of the classes

[Dolph]

Originally posted by pio!pio!
It's possible because it is a brand new P2 car that is fully utilizing the rules, versus an old P1 car that is built to old rules, and has restrictions placed on it

R8 vs RS Spyder, the Spyder won

but the new R10 is faster than the RS Spyder, thus restoring the order of the classes

OK, what was the point of building a diesel car? Wouldn't bensine cars be faster?

[kNt]

Maximum Power is almost the same for both due to airrestrictors or so, and the diesel has a better economy due to the rules I think, plus it's a new challenge and might be utilized better for marketing.

[jaisli]

Originally posted by Dolph


OK, what was the point of building a diesel car? Wouldn't bensine cars be faster?

Well, one could clearly call it a case of marketing as Audi is pushing their diesel technology in road cars and their goal of winning Le Mans with a diesel engine will certainly give them a lot of panache.

I should point out too that all the years of Audi R8 domination have resulted in rather sizable power (and I believe) weight restrictions on Audi's P1 player. One could clearly see the Pescarolos pull away at Le Mans last year, as if they were in a different class. One of the Audi drivers even complained that the R8s were barely faster than the GT1 cars on the Mulsanne and they had to do all of their passing in the braking zone (but in the end, the R8s just proved too reliable.). The R10, being a new car, resets the game. The R8, running without all the restrictions, would probably have been more than a straight match for the Porsche P2 cars.

The Dyson team, which were also running in P1, were having 'teething' problems with their new chassis.

[Punisher6]

That's why it's hard to get excited about Porsche getting the overall win. The Audi is severly handicaped and the Dyson is a brand new Privateer package. Let the R8 run unrestricted, if it's not then it's shallow victory. I say this as a big fan of the Penske Porsche outfit.

[ScottL]

Should be fun to see how the P2 Spyders stack up against the P1 R10s this year.

The R10 is an absolute monster when it comes to torque. 1100 Nm, 850 lb/ft. They didn't even bother with a six speed transmission. But Porsche wants to prove a point - that they can win overall from a lower class. If they solve the reliability issues (as they seemed to in Houston, which was brutally bumpy), it will get interesting.

On reliability, Audi also has to face the issues that always crop up in a completely new design. One of the R10s DNF'd at Sebring, so there could be teething issues there. Still, the other car finished first.

[zac510]

Porsche don't really think they can win with an LMP2 car do they?

If they do then why aren't they running a complete factory team rather than this pseudo-privateer/factory team?

[jaisli]

Originally posted by zac510
Porsche don't really think they can win with an LMP2 car do they?

If they do then why aren't they running a complete factory team rather than this pseudo-privateer/factory team?

Teaming up with a name like Penske is probably a win-win situation for them. (And certainly for the ALMS as well.) But I believe as of 2007, Porsche will begin selling Spyders to other privateer teams. So maybe that answers the question.

[zac510]

Not too great a step to P1 after running a P2 for a couple of years too.

[AndrewNystrom]

Porsche won cause they had the fastest car. Historic win, yes.

and Porsche is probably the only marque to win with an 10year old car (The 962 in the 90's), yes it was upgraded, but still.. a 10year old car.

[Ben]

Also remember that the Porsche has been really competitive at Mid-Ohio and Laguna Seca - not exactly high speed tracks. Come Le Mans order will be returned I suspect.

Mind you the Radical LMP2 that's never been wind tunnel tested was something like 4th overall in terms of lap time at Istanbul in Round 1 of LMS.

Ben

[Ross Stonefeld]

Originally posted by AndrewNystrom
Porsche won cause they had the fastest car. Historic win, yes.

Under the old FIA SSC rules at the turn of the decade, didnt a "Class 2" car win overall at Spa? or maybe only podiumed. And I swear LMP2 Lola-MG's have won ALMS in the past.

[Punisher6]

Originally posted by AndrewNystrom
Porsche won cause they had the fastest car. Historic win, yes.

and Porsche is probably the only marque to win with an 10year old car (The 962 in the 90's), yes it was upgraded, but still.. a 10year old car.

So, I can say Audi lost because their fastest car was slowed down so much that Porsche had the fastest car.

Historic win? Yes?? How about.. No. Dyson did it already, when Audi was allowed to be fast, how is it historic? Let's see...

Audi only had one car nad a SEVERLY restricted one at that. Dyson has a brand new privateer car and it still has bugs.

Historic win my behind.....

[Ben]

Originally posted by Punisher6


So, I can say Audi lost because their fastest car was slowed down so much that Porsche had the fastest car.

Historic win? Yes?? How about.. No. Dyson did it already, when Audi was allowed to be fast, how is it historic? Let's see...

Audi only had one car nad a SEVERLY restricted one at that. Dyson has a brand new privateer car and it still has bugs.

Historic win my behind.....

Quite agree. The Dyson win in the Lola was a much greater achievement.

Point is, I'm not sure the ACO care provided the P1 cars are quicker at Le Sarthe. Test day is June 4th, we will see...

Ben

[LB]

No we won't, theres no P2 Porkers at Le Mans

Dyson won with a P2 car at sears in 2003 iirc

[Punisher6]

Originally posted by LB
No we won't, theres no P2 Porkers at Le Mans

What is a P2 Porker?

[xflow7]

Porker = Porsche

[AndrewNystrom]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld


Under the old FIA SSC rules at the turn of the decade, didnt a "Class 2" car win overall at Spa? or maybe only podiumed. And I swear LMP2 Lola-MG's have won ALMS in the past.

No idea, i just read at ALMS-site that the win was historic. So dont shoot me. I thought the
official site wouldnt write stuff that isnt true.

[AndrewNystrom]

http://www.americanl...le.aspx?ID=2063

"Lexington, Ohio - The Captain's cars have made American Le Mans Series history. Penske Racing's two Porsche RS Spyders finished 1-2 overall in the American Le Mans at Mid-Ohio, becoming the first LMP2 class team to post such a result in the Series."

[Punisher6]

Originally posted by AndrewNystrom
http://www.americanl...le.aspx?ID=2063

"Lexington, Ohio - The Captain's cars have made American Le Mans Series history. Penske Racing's two Porsche RS Spyders finished 1-2 overall in the American Le Mans at Mid-Ohio, becoming the first LMP2 class team to post such a result in the Series."

So it's the LMP2 1, 2 finish that is so historic? Whatever....

[AndrewNystrom]

No idea really. Seems strange to me aswell. But it is probably as you say, the 1-2win.

[Ben]

Important also to remember that there's an unsubstantiated rumour going around that Don Panoz subsidised the Porsche entry to generate manufacturer interest in ALMS. If this car does anything (as it has) don't be surprised if the ALMS organisers holler it from the rooftops.

Ben

[Punisher6]

True that.

I love Don Panoz, he's done so many great things for sports car racing in America. He's a Saint in my book.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I never thought I'd say this, but Grand-Am now seems the better series.

[Punisher6]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I never thought I'd say this, but Grand-Am now seems the better series.

Wow, why don't you just watch NASCAR? Did you watch the last race? I thought it was great, all classes. I really enjoyed the race. Grand Am is OK and I do watch all the races and do enjoy it, but ALMS wins hands down for me. It's the quality of everything, the cars, the teams, the venues, the panache. I was really enjoying the protype racing for the first time in a while last weekend.

Please don't get me wrong, there isn't really a race series I don't like, except mabey NASCAR, but not when they go road racing, I love that! Heavy ass cars with all that torque and power on road courses, seperates the men from the boys.

[Ross Stonefeld]

I guess for me, ALMS is nothing more than a network televised car dealership ad. The R8 jumped the shark a few years ago.

As much as I hated Grand-AM or Bland-Sham as I called it, and especially the Daytona Prototypes, it seems to work.

[jaisli]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
I guess for me, ALMS is nothing more than a network televised car dealership ad.

I don't argue the point. But what makes it different for ALMS than any other series with manufacturer involvement?

[xflow7]

There's no doubt that the field is weak for the early part of this season in ALMS. Scott Atherton said explicitly that he was disappointed by the car count during the Mid Ohio fan forum. But they're expecting more entries after Le Mans in addition to the R10's and then Acura joins in P2 for 2007 with an expected 4-6 cars in 2-3 teams and goes to P1 for 2008. So I think later this year/early next year will be a better indication of the health of the series.

At the moment Grand Am might provide more competition excitment, but IMHO they can't touch ALMS in terms of pulse-quickening sights and sounds (though I say that having not seen Grand Am in person).

[Punisher6]

Overall part of the problem with the ALMS, even though I love it 2nd best to F1, is that it's always coming. There is always the next manufacturer or Rahal or whatever...coming soon or next year and yet never enough cars. So there begs the question, and the question in F1, do you dumb it down like NASCAR, Champ Car, IRL and the Grand Am series or let 'em spend all they want, like the ALMS and F1? Which really breeds the best racing? Which of all those series would you rather watch on the TV? I know I'd rather watch an F1 and ALMS race over the rest of them.