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David Render Lotus 76 pics?


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#1 Gary C

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 12:09

I've been asked by a friend of we can find any photos of David Render hillclimbing the Lotus 76 he was loaned from Team Lotus. Can anyone help please?

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#2 Allen Brown

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 13:54

Ted Walker should be able to help.

http://www.ferret1.co.uk/

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#3 Alan Cox

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 16:50

Not one of Render actually hillclimbing the car, but a paddock shot previously posted on the "hillclimb" thread.

Posted Image

#4 Cirrus

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 17:10

When I worked for Gordon Spice in the mid-seventies, David Render used to come in to the warehouse to be equipped with a Griffin helmet, and Linea Sport FPT raceware. When I asked him about the Lotus connection, he was very matter of fact about it, saying that he had helped ACBC in the early years, and this was his "thankyou".

Can anyone shed any light as to the nature of Davud Render's help to Colin C. ?

#5 RTH

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 19:04

He had a readimix concrete company 'Warecrete' in Ware just up the A10 from Cheshunt.

#6 Ruairidh

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Posted 11 June 2006 - 20:21

One thing that has always puzzled me about this.

During the 1974 F1 season the T76 underwent many significant changes as Team struggled to make the darn thing work. So by the end of its F1 career, it looked little like it had when it had first run.

Yet when Render got it some months later its outward appearance had reverted to the original spec. I wonder why that was?

Wouldn't it have been more logical to expect that they wounldn't have turned the clock back?

Anyone got any clues what was going on here?

#7 Stoatspeed

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 17:01

Gary
Ihave some paddock and action shots from several venues (Shelsley, Curborough, Prescott, maybe Gurston). I will scan and post this weekend (hopefully!). Part of my effort to add some posts to "Pictures from the hills" started by Alan ...

#8 Gary C

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Posted 07 July 2006 - 19:16

Cool! Can't wait to see them!

#9 Jan-Bart

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Posted 09 July 2006 - 08:01

The are some pics in "Lotus on the hills" by Paul Robinshaw/Jeremy Bouckley
isbn 0 952 8086 2 5

#10 Stoatspeed

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 05:08

OK, if I have managed to figure out Image Shack, there should be 4 pictures of David Render in the Lotus 76 here ... all from Shelsley Walsh, not sure exact meeting date (still digging for the programmes!) ..

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Wonderful sights and sounds .... not the easiest of cars on the hills, since it was running a full F1 DFV at the time when other DFV users had DFL-spec engines (often enlarged to 3.3 litres) with slightly milder cams.

I'm still searching for other shots of the car at other venues ... I know they're here somewhere ...

Dave

#11 Ruairidh

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 05:57

Dave, great pictures, they are all of Render in the T77, any of the T76 he had on loan?

#12 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 10:52

Originally posted by Stoatspeed

Wonderful sights and sounds .... not the easiest of cars on the hills, since it was running a full F1 DFV at the time when other DFV users had DFL-spec engines (often enlarged to 3.3 litres) with slightly milder cams.


Dave


Surely the DFL post-dated this by several years ? Wasn't it was developed specificly for Group C in 1982?

I don't recall any oversized DFVs on the hills untill ADO's 4 litre in the early 80s (but of course there may have been). By then Hart 420Rs ruled the roost and there were very few Cosworths in regular use.

I never saw the 76 on the hills which is a shame, a very dramatic looking device!

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#13 Stoatspeed

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 13:55

Originally posted by Ruairidh
Dave, great pictures, they are all of Render in the T77, any of the T76 he had on loan?


Oops ... all that effort and I got the wrong car .... and I used to work at Lotus ... I'll have to get down to the "76" layer of my photo stack ......

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
Surely the DFL post-dated this by several years ? Wasn't it was developed specificly for Group C in 1982?
I don't recall any oversized DFVs on the hills untill ADO's 4 litre in the early 80s (but of course there may have been). By then Hart 420Rs ruled the roost and there were very few Cosworths in regular use.


I think memory got hazy when I mentioned "DFL" ... you are correct, that designation was used in 1981 ... however, there were endurance race DFV derivatives with softer cams for improved torque and reduced power. These were the early DFV hillclimbers weapons of choice. ....
As far as large displacement goes, there were definitely 3.3 litre engines (Mike MacDowell most definitely used one in the Coogar, and ADO went through a 3.0-3.3-3.6-4.0 transition in his cars, and I am fairly sure that Roy Lane installed one in the March 741 he bought from Sir Nick Williamson in 1977. IIRC, the enlarged engines were mainly built by John Judd. Clearly I need to go back to the programme archive to see what was happening .... more to follow!
I'd also slightly disagree that "Harts ruled the roost" - there was always healthy competition between the 2.5 and 2.8 Hart cars and the "serious" machines .... DFx's, (not DFX!), Dowson's Repco, etc ... until the invasion of the really expensive F1 based engines and the F3000 units ...

Thanks for the feedback, guys ... look out for my posts on the "Personal Photos from the hills" thread, too!

Dave

#14 Pedro 917

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 13:57

Hi Gary, here are some pictures of the Lotus 76-10 that I took last Sunday at the Spa Historic GP. The car was driven by Belgian d'Ansembourg. There was no Lotus 72.

Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image Posted Image

#15 Gary C

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 16:37

nice piccies, Pedro!! How did the 76 fair? Was the 72 a no-show? I spoke to Alistair last week & a visit to Spa was certainly on the agenda, did the car not run at all?

#16 Rob Ryder

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 18:16

Originally posted by Pedro 917
Hi Gary, here are some pictures of the Lotus 76-10 that I took last Sunday at the Spa Historic GP. The car was driven by Belgian d'Ansembourg. There was no Lotus 72.

Great photos as usual .. any chance of posting a few of the other cars to the 'Personal Photos' thread?
Rob

#17 Pedro 917

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Posted 18 July 2006 - 18:52

Gary:

My brother was there on Saturday and didn't see it, I was there Sunday and no Lotus 72 either.
Maybe it was there Friday and hit some trouble?

Rob:

I'd love to but as I'm still filing my 1500 Goodwood pics, some 600 Spa pictures are standing in line... and this weekend, I'll be at the Norisring for the inauguration of the Rodriguez commemorative plate and the DTM race...

...and it's still a hobby

It's a long hot summer ;-)
I'll see what I can do.

#18 Stoatspeed

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 07:14

Originally posted by Ruairidh
.... any of the T76 he had on loan?


OK, race fans .. I have now found one (only) picture of the 76 in action at Prescott on September 4th, 1977.
From the programme I have, it looks like it was a late decision to run the car. he was entered in a BT29X BDA in the 1600cc class, put turned up with one of "Chunky's" cast offs!

Posted Image

On the topic of my previous pics of the 77, I am actually a little mystified by when these were taken, since my Shelsley programme archive for 1978 does not have any reference to the car ... maybe he only demonstrated it, and was not an entry? Anyone else know?

Dave

#19 Stephen W

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 07:56

Originally posted by Stoatspeed

On the topic of my previous pics of the 77, I am actually a little mystified by when these were taken, since my Shelsley programme archive for 1978 does not have any reference to the car ... maybe he only demonstrated it, and was not an entry? Anyone else know?

Dave


Seeing as the car is carrying the Number 5 and Render never finished fifth in the Hillclimb Championship I suspect it was a demo.

Was he also driving the Brabham in the 1600 class?

:wave:

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#20 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 11:26

Here's some Brighton speed trial photos. one from 76...

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and a couple from 77...

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and slightly OT, that March 741 of Roy Lane's you mentioned Dave. Didn't Roy run the famous ex McLaren 68 Belgian GP wining DFV in this and many other cars over the years including the 6 wheeler?


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#21 Stoatspeed

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 16:07

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
... and slightly OT, that March 741 of Roy Lane's you mentioned Dave. Didn't Roy run the famous ex McLaren 68 Belgian GP wining DFV in this and many other cars over the years including the 6 wheeler?


Great Brighton pics, Simon!

Not sure about the provenance of RTL's DFV, but here's a closer picture of it in case you recognize it! :lol:
http://img291.images...arch2401ux8.jpg

Seriously, the McLaren connection is plausible since he ran an M14 for one season, but fitted with a 5 litre Chevrolet engine. Maybe he acquired "the" DFV with that car from the factory and held on to it until he put the March 741 together? Wait, the March had been driven by Sir Nick Williamson before RTL ... need to work on this mystery!

Continuing the DFV theme, I spent way too long last night trawling through a stack of hillclimb programmes to track the history of DFV displacement on the hills. I'll try to organize the info before posting again, but it is certain that Mike MacDowell was running a 3.3 engine in the Coogar before the DFL was launched. RTL always had 3 litre engines in the string of Marches, but jumped up to 4 litre with his Pilbeams. ADO went through a number of DFV's, but the quickest of all (at least at Shelsley) was a 3.6 or 3.7 engine which was referred to at the time as a DFY - odd, since he was using it in 1981 and Cosworth did not launch the F1 DFY until '82 (short stroke, large bore).
I'll try to make sense of the scribbles I made and maybe start a new thread - "DFV's on the hills"?

More later ...

Dave

#22 Stephen W

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Posted 19 July 2006 - 16:19

Originally posted by Stoatspeed


Great Brighton pics, Simon!


Yes, I particularly liked the one of the VERY fast Hillman Imp slipstreaming the 76!

:wave:

#23 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 13:41

Dave that shot of the March 6 wheeler is excellent, one wonders if the heat from the exhaust would have caused problems ( with seals etc) in the rear cwp housing if the car had run in anything longer than a hillclimb?

Good work on the DFV question, I had forgotten the Cougar ran a DFV, I always have the mental image of this car with it's later Rover unit.
I do remember ADOs ever increasing engine capacity and also the fact it ran on some odd nitro brews at various times.

Question - did Render run a Lotus 77 by any chance? In a conversation with someone at Prescott a few months ago it suggested that he did and it may have been the ex Andretti Japanese GP winner. Anyone recall seeing that car ?


Simon Lewis
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#24 Gary C

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 13:45

Simon, take a look at post #10 !

#25 simonlewisbooks

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 13:55

That's teach me to click ALL the links on these threads Gary! Was it actually the Japanese GP winner do you know?

Simon

#26 Gary C

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 14:07

what a great story if it was !!

#27 Stoatspeed

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Posted 20 July 2006 - 16:19

Originally posted by simonlewisbooks
Good work on the DFV question .... that shot of the March 6 wheeler is excellent

Simon
I've started assembling some sort of summary of the rise and fall of DFV's on the hills based on my programme stock and also referencing Mason (of course). I am planning on posting a new thread with the basic facts as I see them in the next couple of days, since there seems to be some interest. Perhaps the collected brain of TNF can get it all sorted!
The topic of Roy Lane's engine is not clear - Roy's first DFV car was the ex-Nick Williamson March 741, and I'm fairly sure that the engine in this car was the one Sir Nick had installed in the 712S for 1973 season. This was apparently one of two ex- de Cadenet sports car units which David Good acquired (the other going into Good's Lyncar in '73). When Sir Nick sold the car to RTL, he did not run another DFV car so I presume did not keep the engine. However, the "Belgian GP McLaren" theory is mentioned in Mason, so I really don't know. maybe someone needs to ask Roy!

Watch this space, and also look at the "Personal photos from the hills" thread for more of my hillclimb pix ... (shameless self-promotion there!) - there are more 2-4-0 shots to come ...

Dave

#28 arttidesco

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 10:21

When I worked for Gordon Spice in the mid-seventies, David Render used to come in to the warehouse to be equipped with a Griffin helmet, and Linea Sport FPT raceware. When I asked him about the Lotus connection, he was very matter of fact about it, saying that he had helped ACBC in the early years, and this was his "thankyou".

Can anyone shed any light as to the nature of Davud Render's help to Colin C. ?


I went to a talk given by David Render at the Bristol Pegasus Motor Club a couple of months ago, David said he knew Colin, Graham Hill and Raymond Baxter et al through the North (West ?) London Motor Club, he said that he approached Colin for something a bit quick for sprinting and hill climbing and after a little further persuasion Colin told him to bring a trailer to Hethel where something would be ready and waiting.

When David turned up at Hethel he saw this huge black car with twin wings and asked who is this for ? He was quite surprised to learn that it was intended for him.

One thing that has always puzzled me about this.

During the 1974 F1 season the T76 underwent many significant changes as Team struggled to make the darn thing work. So by the end of its F1 career, it looked little like it had when it had first run.

Yet when Render got it some months later its outward appearance had reverted to the original spec. I wonder why that was?

Wouldn't it have been more logical to expect that they wounldn't have turned the clock back?

Anyone got any clues what was going on here?


David said that the 76 he drove was a bitza, an assemblage of all sorts of Lotus 76 parts which might explain why it was in the original body configuration.

He also made the point that the 76 suffered from terminal understeer which was cured by adding a lump of lead, which had originally been located in the back of his old trials Allard, to the nose of the 76.

#29 Pullman99

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 10:44

David said that the 76 he drove was a bitza, an assemblage of all sorts of Lotus 76 parts which might explain why it was in the original body configuration. He also made the point that the 76 suffered from terminal understeer which was cured by adding a lump of lead, which had originally been located in the back of his old trials Allard, to the nose of the 76.


Did David Render also use a Type 77 (?) I had a good look at one car that I believed he had used prior to 1979 when it carried the chassis number JP11 (Marrio's 1976 Japanese GP winner) and, IIRC, had the steering rack set up to give greater lock in one direction than the other. I believe that car was retained by Team Lotus at that time as primarily an exhibition car??

#30 arttidesco

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 11:13

David did indeed trade (my word not his) in for a '77, I am not sure on the veracity of it being the Andretti Japanese GP winner.

#31 Tim Murray

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 12:03

According to the British Sprint results on the ORC site, Render had Lotus 76 chassis 2 ('JPS10'). His Lotus 77 was chassis 1 ('JPS11'), which was Andretti's Japanese GP winner:

http://www.oldracing...php?RaceID=S76E

http://www.oldracing...php?RaceID=S78I

#32 arttidesco

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 13:05

According to the British Sprint results on the ORC site, Render had Lotus 76 chassis 2 ('JPS10').

http://www.oldracing...php?RaceID=S76E


Interesting that the results show Dave Harris shared 76/2 (JPS 10) with David, something I did not register at the time.


#33 Tim Murray

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 13:45

It appears to have been a one-off drive - for the rest of the year Harris drove either a McLaren M10B or M14D:

http://www.britishsprint.org/

(go to History and click on Event Results > 1976)

No doubt Sgt Wilko will know definitely, but I'm guessing Harris had car problems at Blackpool and Render offered him a drive in the Lotus.

#34 arttidesco

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Posted 10 May 2012 - 14:05

but I'm guessing Harris had car problems at Blackpool and Render offered him a drive in the Lotus.


Totally in keeping with the gentleman we were privileged to hear speaking Tim :clap:


#35 Stephen W

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Posted 11 May 2012 - 07:46

No doubt Sgt Wilko will know definitely, but I'm guessing Harris had car problems at Blackpool and Render offered him a drive in the Lotus.


David Harris did have car troubles & it was a on-off drive. David Render is a true gentleman and often 'lent' his car to other competitors and often shared with 'constructor' & preparation guru Ray Rowan who looked fater David's cars.

:wave: