74 replies to this topic

[mhferrari]

I want to know what people think is the best race ever.
Please send your opinion.

P.S. I will stop the MH bashing, after seeing stats.

[Peeko]

You should stop the bashing, cause it's old and boring, and it proves nothing. You want stats, look up Gilles Villeneuve. He'll have all the info you need on stats.

[Jackman]

Best race ever is a difficult one, not to mention subjective - how to judge? Best single result? Best result for a championship? Most overtaking? Lead changes? European last year was pretty exciting for lead changes (and unexpected results - wonder what the payout on Herbert win was?), but probably not the best race. Senna v Prost collisions were momentous in terms of championships, but best? That said, Senna getting going, replacing nose and overtaking everyone only to have it taken away was ... exciting. Donnington is always called up in these things, but after 2 laps was it really any good, other than as a display of how to drive in the wet? And of course I only go back to the 80s - I hear there were a few half decent races previously ...


I guess I haven't answered your question at all, but I'm just as intrigued to see what people think.

On a personal note I always liked Canada 8? when Mansell, after a storming drive, waved to the crowd on the final lap, flicking the engine off in the process and handing the race to Piquet ...

[MercMan]

Well said Peeko.

--mhferrari

All you achieve by bashing MH is prove that MS has been beaten by a crappy driver.

Incidentally I do think MS is a great driver, I also think MH is almost his equal. MS is slightly superior in some areas, but the gap is closing

Regards

MercMan

[mhferrari]

Merc Man,

Good signature. Tell that to the rest of the bashers, on both sides of the line. Anyway, my favourite driver is Jarno Trulli. Of all time: Ayrton Senna.

I rather have Rubens win the championship, but he is not gonna get it.

Just hope Ferrari gets it soon, could have won it since 97'.

[Peeko]

Jackman, that was 1991. I remember it well, cause his car stopped right in front of me...

[Jackman]

Peeko, that's excellent - brings back many happy memories for me !! You must have been very proud ...

So, does anyone have a favourite race out there or what? Or do we all have to run home, pull out the Autocourses and go 'oh yeah - that one' ...

[mhferrari]

Either Donnington Park 1993, where Senna beats the all dominant Williams in the rain or Jerez 1986 where the Lotus beat the Williams by 0.014.

Canada 1991 is pretty good, but I think the other two are better.

[Jonathan]

South Africa 1993

Senna really made Prost work for his victory.

[goGoGene]

I'm a newbie, so I can only go back to '97, but I'll chime in for France '99, I watched it live 5:00 in the morning, and was rattleing with adrenaline for the rest of the morning.

ggg

[Mila]

Peeko, great photo.

did he continue waving?

[MattFoster]

I would like to add the 1982 Monaco GP where it seemed no one want to win it. In the last few laps there was a potential 6 different winners, including my favorite driver at the time Andrea de Cesaris.

San Marino 1985 was a similar story.

cheers

Matt

[mini mum]

I'll go with GoGoGene, France '99. I was at Adelaide corner and got a thorough soaking, but that race really was something else. It was fantastic.

[MacFan]

Australian GP 1986. 3 drivers were in with a chance of the WDC in the final race of the season, and during the race all 3 of them (Mansell, Piquet and Prost) looked like being the champion, Mansell retired from the 3rd place he needed with that famous blowout, Piquet lost the lead with a precautionary tyre change, letting the underdog Prost through for the win and the WDC. Oh, and there was overtaking as well.

I've only been watching F1 since the early 80s, so I'm sure there have been equally good races before this one, but this is the best race I can remember.

[Louis Mr. F1]

although Hungarory is often being named as a boring track, but they had some good races as well.

88, Senna was leading with a group of normally aspirated cars, Mansell, Patrese, Boutsen, Nannini.... chasing. At the same time, Prost was charging through the field after started from 7th on grid. One by one, he finally managed to get up to 2nd to challenge Senna. He was able to pass
Senna on the straight but braked too late, slid wide and Senna immediatley repassed him. This proved that Prost was often better than Senna in race condition, but was always hampered by poor grid position. After this move, Prost was beginning to experience a problem with his car, and finally lost by 1/2 sec. The battle was also exciting from 3rd to 7th place.
The same for the 1990 Hungary gp.

Mexico 90, 91.

of course Australia 86 is right up there.

and who can forget Nurburgring 95, excitment throughout the WHOLE race. & France 99

too many ???

[Bruce]

Hard one... for the most exciting racing? French GP at Dijon, 1979...

for nail biting finishes? Spanish GP at Jerez, 1986, and the Austrian GP of 1982...

for WDC import? Spanish GP at Jerez, 1997, Australian GP, 1986...

For sheer nationalistic pleasure? Candian GP, 1978.

For brilliance of a particular driver? Spain, 1981, Donnington, 1993, Spain, 1996,

[boost]

hehe MacFan beat me to it!
Australian GP 1986 still stands out in my mind.
94 Japan i also liked.. wet and great.

[Peeko]

Mila, no, Mansell just sat in the car for a about 30 seconds or so, got out and threw his gloves over the fence to the standing-room crowd. Then Patrese stopped, and and gave him a lift back to the pits. Unfortunately, I had just used up my last 2 pictures on Mansell. In those pictures, you can also see Senna's car parked across from him right up against the fence.

Jackman, 1991 was the most memorable of all the races I attended. I have a few more pics of that day here http://www.geocities...rssy/Index.html

[Jackman]

Peeko,

Excellent pictures - shame you haven't had a go at some commentary for the races. Makes me think I should set something up someday - would be fun. How the hell did you get so close to Crazy Jean? Those were the days. Particularly love the photos of Senna ... sigh ...

Can I throw Phoenix 90 into the ring? New boy Alesi in a Tyrell never saying die to a clearly startled Senna - he must have been wondering what hte hell was going on - that race set up a big career for CJ ...

[5150]

Dificult for me to decide on my favorite race.......I like so many, basically, even the most dull ones still are good......I guess I can tell you the worst, Japan 90....I liked that Senna won the championship, but what a stupid race, Berger spins out early, Mansell drops out after his stop, and if I remember correctly the Benetons finishe'd 1, 2........I didn't like it, maybe I had such high expectations of a great race (you know the WDC battle) that it spoiled it.

[Shadow]

Well... Donnington, 1993 and France, 1999... Can someone remember what this two races had in common? (not, it's not only the wet!)

[aross]

Loved Jerez Mansell v Senna. Loved Australia with Jacques Villeneuve at the front, four wheels in the dirt, Jock Clear screaming in his ear to slow the **** down. Loved Stewart at Mosport in the fog and the rain. Loved Gilles at Montreal in the fog and the rain. Senna anywhere in the fog and the rain.
Most of all I remember Villenueve driving the worlds widest Ferrari at Spain with a train of cars all chomping to get past. Now that's racing.

[Caíco Caralho]

The best race ever, as I know by other sources, might be one of these two: Dijon'79 (with Gilles Villeneuve vs. Rene Arnoux fighting for the second place side by side for the last, I guess, 3 or 4 laps, changing places 3 times at the last one lap; that one I saw in video-tape); and Monza'71 (with the first four drivers changing positions several times, as people say, ending with a gap of 0.6 s between the winner and the fourth).

Adding to this, some remarkable races that I really saw:
- Hungaroring'86 - the most beautiful overtake I've ever seen (Piquet over Senna), 90 (Boutsen x Senna) and 97 (Hill almost won in an Arrows)
- Adelaide'85 (Rosberg x Senna, Streiff x Laffite, ha ha), 86 (Prost, Piquet, Mansell and Rosberg) and 94 (Schumi x Hill).
- Senna's wet shows at Monaco'84 and Donnington'93
- Detroit'84 (Piquet x Brundle), Dallas'84 (Mansell pushing his car at the final line)
- Suzuka'88 (Senna's show) and Hockenheim'2000 (Barrichello's show)
- Jerez'86 (Senna x Mansell)
- Suzuka'94 (Hill x Schumacher)
- Magny-Cours and Nürburgring'99
- Spa'91, Spa'98 (what a strike at the start!)

But I'm sure much more interesting races than some of these I mentioned happened in the 50's, 60's, 70's and early 80's...

[Rogue]

Adelaide '86 was a stunner ! probably the most exciting race I have ever watched. Spain '96 was great for the driving skill involved, as was Donington '93 and Nurburgring '95, Monaco '97 and Spa pretty much every time there is a race there.

Regards,

[mtl'78]

For me the most exciting race was GV's last win. Jarama 1981. the 1981 Ferrari was a total dichotomy. On the one hand, the engine was the best of the field, but the chassis one of the worst! Quotes from that season:


http://www.bath.ac.u...lles13_pic.html


(Can't get the img up)

http://www.bath.ac.u...lles13_pic.html

"During practice at Dijon in 1981, Gilles crashed at the Courbe de Pouas, an undulating, flat-in-fourth right hander, with no run-off worth mentioning. During the lunch break I found him dabbing a cut on his jaw: "Bloody catch pole cracked my helmet and broke the visor ..."
"You overdid it ?" I asked. "Just ran out of road ?" "No, no," he grinned. "I ran out of lock ! "The car is really bad through there - an adventure every time. Go and have a look this afternoon and you'll see what I mean." I did. I watched the Cosworth-engined Williams and Brabhams droning through on their rails, and waited.

At its clipping point, at the top of a rise, the Ferrari was already sideways, its driver winding on opposite lock. As it came past me, plunging downhill now, the tail stayed out of line, further and further, and still Gilles had his foot hard down. As he reached the bottom of the dip, I knew the position was hopeless, for now it was virtually broadside, full lock on, Villeneuve's head pointing up the road, out of the side of the cockpit.

Somehow, though, the Ferrari did not spin, finally snapping back into line as it grazed the catch fencing, then rocketing away up the hill. For more than a hundred yards, I swear it, the car was sideways at 130 mph. "That's genius," said David Hobbs, watching with me. "Are you seriously telling me he's won two Grand Prix in that?" "

The 81 Ferrari was a turbo, the first turbo to win at Monaco, just two weeks before, with Gilles at the wheel. The Jarama circuit was tight and twisty, with 2 medium and long staights. GV was 7th on the grid, behind Laffite, Jones, Reutermann, Prost Watson and Giacomelli, ahead of Andretti, Piquet, Mansell and De Angelis. At the start GV made another of his legendary starts, and was leading by the 2nd corner. What followed was 60 laps of madness, as all the drivers listed above each took turns having a go at GV in the lead, for 60 laps they switched places with each other, 2nd falling to 5th, and back again just like in oval racing, all in an attempt to get P1, but they just couldn't outbrake the underbraking master, and coming off the corners the ferrari engine was giving him the seperation he needed. Meanwhile the six drivers behind got impatient and there were several incidents within the group. As the race wore on GV'tyres were finished and he started locking up at all the slow corners, Going wide. 3 different times a driver came up alongside GV but were unable to complete the pass, and that GV never once crowded their line, MS could take some lessons. To GV weaving would show that he feared the other driver. what GV wanted to do, was simply outdrive his opponents. the last 10 laps were absolutly nail biters as GV looked on the verge of disaster, he had come too far to accept defeat and he continued to push a car that had gone off a long time ago, qand somehow the race finally ended, with GV leading a train of cars to the line:

1  27 G.Villeneuve  Ferrari  80   1:46'35.01   
2  26 Jacques Laffite  Ligier/Matra  0.22
3   7 John Watson  McLaren/Ford  0.58
4   2 Carlos Reutemann  Williams/Ford  1.01
5  11 Elio de Angelis  Lotus/Ford  1.24
6  12 Nigel Mansell  Lotus/Ford  28.58




[p][Edited by mtl'78 on 08-31-2000]

[magic]

Mila on mansell stalling:
.....did he continue waving?....

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

best race ever?

fangio, nürnburgring '57, they say.

i say: suzuka '88, when watched live 4 o'clock in the morning.

[Ellen2]

Dijon 1979.........Rene and Gilles repeated the Mika move maybe 5 times in 2 laps!!!!! awesome racing without punting.

[John B]

lots of good choices mentioned, the Adelaide and Jerez races having the added drama of the championship...

as far as pure races I would agree with Dijon, not only for the great battle but for the first win by a turbo. Mexico 1990 as mentioned was another favorite as no one would possibly have imagined a Ferrari 1-2 after they started in mid-field, and positions in the top-5 changed thru the final laps culminating with Mansell's outside pass in the Peraltada.

Some other decent races:
Watson, USA 1982 and 1983
Laffite, Austria 1981
Prost, Austria 1983
Arnoux, Dutch 1983 (another Ferrari 1-2 from deep in the field, plus the Prost-Piquet crash)
Boutsen, Hungary 1990 (by far his career race)
Mansell's 2 wins in 1989
Europe 1985 had a lot of action: Mansell's first win, Prost's first title, Rosberg and Senna tangling and Rosberg coming back to 3rd, Laffite and Marc Surer(!) contending until car problems.
Prost breaking Stewart's record at Portugal - this was a good race which saw AP run down Berger in final laps and pressure him into a spin.

Shadow, you've got me thinking about the DOnington/France comparison. Let's see...i don't think it lies in the drivers Senna vs. HHF...how about the eventual champ spinning in the rain? I remember Ruebens did well in both races too

[130R]

There was no move resembling Mika's at Dijon '79. There was never a third car.

Great duel nonetheless.

[Maldwyn]

I'd have to go with Matt - Monaco '82 if only for Patrese's first win. It should have been the first of many...

[Simioni]

I stopped to think about it and came up with about 30 races, and couldnt narrow it down... Since I haven´t got most of the 80´s tapes, the 90´s races are the ones still fresh in my mind... These are the races I keep going back to when there´s no racing going on:

-Hungary 90

-Spain 91

-Brazil 93

-Donington 93

-Brazil 94

-Australia 94

-Spa 95

-Europe 95

-Japan 95

-Hungary 97

-Spa 97

-Austria 97

-Jerez 97

-Canada 98

-France 99

-Hockenheim 00

[Shadow]

Originally posted by John B
Shadow, you've got me thinking about the DOnington/France comparison. Let's see...i don't think it lies in the drivers Senna vs. HHF...how about the eventual champ spinning in the rain? I remember Ruebens did well in both races too

And The winner is John B

Yes... I presume no one will remember the Champion of the year spinning (but MH did much better than AP), but I'm refering on RB this was their rookie year! On an almost crap Jordan (can some one remember they run out of fuel while on 2nd, coming from the back of the grid, making it on 2/3 laps? Then RB enginner told they didn't know how much fuel they need to finish the race, because they didn't race that much before?) And the France-99 race was astoundig too!!!

It's a shame I'm without money to buy some tapes... All this races appear wonderfull... imagine, a race with more passes on one lap than todays races!!!! And Max&Bernie are making this on F3000 too...

[Witt]

The best race i've watched live was the 1995 European GP. It was one of my first GP's i sat down and watched knowing i was addicted to F1, and it only fueled my addiction more.

From what i've read and seen on video, the 1987 British GP is my favourite GP. I guess it helps that i am a big fan of Nigel Mansell (driving skill only), but the mid-race tyre problem, put together with the chase, and then finally the pass. Breathtakingly awesome!

And i'll also add my two cents to the France 99 vote. What made it more exciting, i think, was the fact that we'd been starved of passing for so long, and when the heavens opened on Magny Cours, all the passing that should have been spread out over 5 years, happened in one race.

[FordPrefect]

West Main Street in Hamilton by the university. About 2am in the morning. My '69 Z28 against a 396 Camaro. I won. Everything else I've ever seen pales in comparison.

FP

[Uncle Davy]

The 1957 German GP at the old Nurburgring, Fangio in the Maserati 250F chasing down the Lancia-Ferraris of Hawthorn and Collins...or so I hear. Unable to attend, being ten months old at the time...

[wiligates]

Originally posted by MacFan
Australian GP 1986. 3 drivers were in with a chance of the WDC in the final race of the season, and during the race all 3 of them (Mansell, Piquet and Prost) looked like being the champion, Mansell retired from the 3rd place he needed with that famous blowout, Piquet lost the lead with a precautionary tyre change, letting the underdog Prost through for the win and the WDC. Oh, and there was overtaking as well.

I've only been watching F1 since the early 80s, so I'm sure there have been equally good races before this one, but this is the best race I can remember.

This is my favorite to , can't remember the last time three drivers all fought for the title in the last race of the year .Heart break for Mansell with that tyre blowout down the back straight .

[magic]

i remember that race too, piquet doing everything not to win the wdc spinning at least 2 times, mansell saving his life losing the title and the little french guy picking up the pieces and the wdc.
sir frank must have torn out his hair in that race.

[Pirate Smee 2000]

My Top Five
5 France 99
4 Adelaide 86
3 Monaco 82
2 Europe 99
1 Monaco 96

[Louis Mr. F1]

the thing about australia 86 was, if mansell had crashed out, with the car stopped on the track, the race would have been stopped. Since they would use the position the lap before, that means Mansell would be the World champion. Sound strange,isn't it? is that a double blow for nigle to learn this

[Ray Bell]

There's a picture somewhere on the Nostalgia Forum of Villeneuve and the Renault in that French GP just about locking wheels, and Villeneuve is sideways!
Use search and find it, it's worth it...
For me, the 1981 Monaco race was great. I was there, so that made a big difference, but Jones' demolition of Piquet was superb, and seeing Villeneuve win simply because he never gave up in that dog of a car, and was right there to get the back when Jones had fuel feed trouble.
Of the ones I've read about, the 1962 German is a standout, Hill holding off Gurney and Surtees for the full fourteen laps of the old Nurburgring, in the rain, while Clark stormed through but could never catch up after switching off his fuel pump at the start.

[MattFoster]

Ray, I have to agree with you on the way Jonesy psyched out
Piquet at Monaco 81. He just harried him into losing concentation, a very bad move at Monaco. Gilles was at his best that day and IMO it was his best victory.

Cheers
Matt

[Ray Bell]

Beat the socks out of the following race, the one mentioned earlier in Spain where he held everyone up for the whole event. I nearly made it to that one, too, but it was dependent on trains and planes running on time... too much of a risk, I couldn't change my departure from Rome and I couldn't afford another ticket. Saw it on TV just after I got over my jetlag and reintroduced my wife to the pleasures of my presence.

[Don Capps]

A few worth looking at would be:

1933 GP de Monaco: Varzi & Nuvolari hammering away at each other until the end

1935 GP von Deutschland: Nuvolari sez, "Make that Italia uber alles..."

1936 Eifelrennen: Rosemeyer demostrates that he is from another planet or perhaps another solar system in this staggering performance in the fog...

1953 GP de l'ACF: Hawthorn & Fangio in a wonderful race with another group right on their heels

1957 GP von Deutschland: Fangio once again proves age and wisdom can better youth & enthusiasm leaving Hawthorn & Collins in his wake...

1961 GP de Monaco & GP von Deutschland: Moss the Magnificent

1968 GP von Deutschland: why Stewart is among The Greats...

1979 GP de France: Why Gilles is still remembered...

Just a few of my favorites. Consider checking them out, you might be surprised...

[Ray Bell]

Perhaps someone should find that pic of Gilles and post it here... right here!

[OverDrive]

I find all races equally as enjoyable. All races, to me, are great exciting... Races.

[Ray Bell]

All are as exciting as this?

http://www.geocities...350/arnoux2.jpg

This went on for several laps!

[OverDrive]

What year was that?

[Ray Bell]

1979? It was mentioned just above, and a couple of other times, I think.
Great image?

[OverDrive]

Very great shot!

[Ray Bell]

Ralf was still in nappies...
sorry, couldn't resist that!