22 replies to this topic

[Xaxor]

The Greatest driver never to have won a Grand Prix. You won't find him on many lists. I know that it won't take you guys long!

[Joe Fan]

Is it Chris Amon?

[Xaxor]

Excellent guess, JF. Amon is the obvious choice having been Ferrari #1 and having led a number of races. However, I'm thinking of another, more highly rated F1 competitor. He did score points (therefore, he's not Zanardi!).

[Fast One]

Jean Behra? He was certainly a highly rated driver...and he never one a Grand Prix, unless it was a non-championship event.

[Marcel Schot]

OK, here's a list of drivers with 50+ points and no win :

Martin Brundle 98
Stefan Johansson 88
Chris Amon 83
Rubens Barrichello 77
Derek Warwick 71
Eddie Cheever 70
Ralf Schumacher 62
Andrea de Cesaris 59
Jean Behra 51.14

Giancarlo Fisichella is about to join the club with 49 points at the moment.

Is Barrichello aiming for a new record?

[This message has been edited by Marcel Schot (edited 11-26-1999).]

[Xaxor]

Nice try, MS. The driver I'm thinking of is not on your list. He scored only a few points, nowhere near fifty. As stated elsewhere, he's forgotten and underrated. But, when his name is mentioned, everyone says "..OF COURSE!!!" One of the greatest drivers ever, IMO.

[Joe Fan]

Hmmmm only scored a few points but never won a GP. Is it one of the following?
Mark Donohue
George Follmer
Masten Gregory
Stefan Bellof
Derek Bell

[Fast One]

No doubt about it, it was "Geki"!!!

[Marcel Schot]

Fast One : Nah, "Geki" didn't score a point at all in his 2 races.

I know this is getting silly but :
Prince Bira, Piers Courage, Emmanuel de Graffenried, Alfonso de Portago, Vic Elford, Olivier Gendebien, Mike Hailwood, Hans Herrmann, Jean-Pierre Jarier, Karl Kling, Stuart Lewis-Evans, Tony Maggs, Roy Salvadori, Harry Schell.... he's gotta be in there somewhere

[Jonathan]

Tom Pryce (Although he did win a non-championship Grand Prix) hasn't been mentioned yet.

[Xaxor]

By all accounts, Mark Donohue was in a class by himself. F1 only got a glimpse of his talent. A season in an uncompetitive car, tragically cut short.

Mark dominated Trans-Am series against drivers like Gurney and Parnelli Jones. He closed the book on the CanAm with his 1200hp Porsche. His record at Indy stood for more than a decade. He was untouchable in the rain.

Most F1 fans don't know or have forgotten what a driver they had in Mark.

[Joe Fan]

Xaxor, if you check the "ESPN's Top Ten North American drivers" thread over on page 2 of the Readers Comments section of the forum, Lee Roy, Fast One and myself all sung the praises of Mark Donohue. I figured that you had probably already read this and the driver you were thinking would have been too obvious to be Donohue.

[Fast One]

Me too!

MS--I was only joking about "Geki"!

[Todd]

Too bad I was too late to guess incorrectly. I recognize Mark's talent but I wonder what you all think of a driver I'm very partial to. Hans J. Stuck was a pretty exciting F1 driver who never won a grand prix. His accomplishments in sports cars prove that he deserves to be compared with other extremely good drivers. Watching him hustle a 911 in the rain at speeds that make his competitors look static has been one of the high points of race spectating for me.

[engin]

hi

i think that there is one driver unmentioned here

tony brise .

thanx .

[Xaxor]

Joe Fan - I just read your and Lee Roy's posts. My question came about from the thread you started about a driver being unerrrated. When lists of great Grand Prix drivers are compiled, Mark is always left out. I guess not many races and only a few points. But, he died a Grand Prix driver, and what a driver he was!

Todd - I also like Stuck. Recently I saw a feature on the Audi Trans-Am effort which stars Stuck, Haywood and my favorite, Walter Rohrl. Stuck is inerviewed at lenght and some of his insights are hillarious.

[Todd]

Xaxor,

That would be interesting to see. Did Audi do IMSA GTO or SCCA Trans Am first? I just remember that the rule changes for one drove them to the other. When you consider that they had Hurley, Hans, and Walter driving the cars, I wonder just how much of their dominance was really the Quattro system.

[Don Capps]

Mark Donohue and too many others never quite the breaks they deserved in GP/F1. I think Penske would have stayed in GP for the long term had not Donohue died. His death really affected Penske. They had done so much together over the years and been so succesful - USRRC, Can Am, Trans Am, Indy Cars - that I cannot imagine them withdrawing until they had been successful.

------------------
Yr fthfl & hmbl srvnt,

Don Capps

[Xaxor]

You're guite right, Don. There's a parallel between Chapman/Clark and Penske/Donohue. Even though both team owners moved on and were successful, it just wasn't the same without Jimmy and Mark.

[DAT]

regarding Stuck, could someone tell me if he has won at LeMans? I think he's still competing but I'm not sure if he's actually won it.

[Todd]

DAT,

Hans J. Stuck has won LeMans. I don't know which years. Here is a link to the ACO site. It just has him listed as a GP driver who has won LeMans.
http://www.lemans.or...ne_cadre_gb.htm

[DAT]

thanx Todd,

he won in '86 and '87.

[Sean]

Todd,

I have a 50/50 chance here of being correct, or not, but I believe Audi did GTO first where the rules at the time were wide open. I seem to remember them in IMSA around 87-88, and then doing Trans Am closer to 1990. I recall the Quatros at Long Beach and the lines they took were nothing short of ridiculous! Incredible cars those were.